Xisico 60C tuning

[Wayne52]

By the looks of peoples XS60C's that have shown pictures of them they appear to really have a decent finish on them, I still may buy one of these guns before the heat goes away here in Michigan.

[Blowpipe Sam]

Got home tonight and set up straight from the garage, CO2 was in the 70s.  High 680s.  So the 735 -740 speeds were the high temps.  Here is the kicker,  accuracy was not nearly as good as the faster speeds.  Not sure how to solve that one.
Did not get to play beyond that but will over the next few days.

My experience shooting muzzle loaders leads me to suggest that good accuracy  may depend on the rotational velocity of the pellet RPS=revolutions per second.  The pellet that gave good accuracy at the higher velocity may stabilize better at higher RPS.  At lower velocity it may not have sufficient gyroscopic stability to be accurate.  You might have to find another pellet that stabilizes better at lower RPS.  For my muzzle loader this meant going with a bullet with a lower sectional density and ballistic co-efficient.  I wouldn't know how to address that in a pellet rifle.

[superchikn]

Got home tonight and set up straight from the garage, CO2 was in the 70s.  High 680s.  So the 735 -740 speeds were the high temps.  Here is the kicker,  accuracy was not nearly as good as the faster speeds.  Not sure how to solve that one.
Did not get to play beyond that but will over the next few days.

My experience shooting muzzle loaders leads me to suggest that good accuracy  may depend on the rotational velocity of the pellet RPS=revolutions per second.  The pellet that gave good accuracy at the higher velocity may stabilize better at higher RPS.  At lower velocity it may not have sufficient gyroscopic stability to be accurate.  You might have to find another pellet that stabilizes better at lower RPS.  For my muzzle loader this meant going with a bullet with a lower sectional density and ballistic co-efficient.  I wouldn't know how to address that in a pellet rifle.

I agree, that makes sense, and that is I guess a drawback of CO2- the pressure swings due to temp changes.
The FTTs have been the "best" most consistently but I have not paid too much attention to temps, as long as above 70ish.  I will have to try FTTs and the other "best" AA 16s at 70ish temps and at 90ish and see if one is better at higher speed or lower.  40 -50 fps may be making a big difference.
Sorry about all the ishes.

[superchikn]

By the looks of peoples XS60C's that have shown pictures of them they appear to really have a decent finish on them, I still may buy one of these guns before the heat goes away here in Michigan.

Wayne,
Here is mine, scope is bigger than necessary but...
The gun is light and nimble.  The bolt is pretty smooth,  I like it much better than Crosman bolts.

[csitas]

Superchikn , did you put the pickle on the barrel or is that factory?

[Blowpipe Sam]

By the looks of peoples XS60C's that have shown pictures of them they appear to really have a decent finish on them, I still may buy one of these guns before the heat goes away here in Michigan.

The finish looks and feels nice but I did have a teensy issue with it.  I drilled the stock and added studs for sling swivels.  When I snugged the rear stud down with gentle pressure, the thick varnish cracked and chipped around the base of the stud.  I filled it in with some clear nail polish and it isn't really noticeable but still.  Bummer.  First blemish on the stock.

[superchikn]

Superchikn , did you put the pickle on the barrel or is that factory?

No it is aftermarket.  Comes with fiber optic open sites.
It is from Rocker 1.  Super quiet.  His pieces come with stainless set screws,  I put the button head screws screws in because I was dicking around with it.

[superchikn]

By the looks of peoples XS60C's that have shown pictures of them they appear to really have a decent finish on them, I still may buy one of these guns before the heat goes away here in Michigan.

The finish looks and feels nice but I did have a teensy issue with it.  I drilled the stock and added studs for sling swivels.  When I snugged the rear stud down with gentle pressure, the thick varnish cracked and chipped around the base of the stud.  I filled it in with some clear nail polish and it isn't really noticeable but still.  Bummer.  First blemish on the stock.

My brother knocked mine over soon after I got it,  my wife did so recently, so I have some dings in my stock.  The thick varnish does show more than an oil finish would.

[Ribbonstone]

Probably written  hundreds of co2 posts here....and there are things co2 can't really do great, but accuracy is not one of the faults.

MAy as well add one more post.   I like co2,but it does NOT do what a PCP can do for velocity/energy/long range.

But they can work great for 30-40 yard high accuracy/low vel.varations,  small pest shooting.

Do have to keep CO2  rifles temperture stable for best perfomance....but not just the ambiant temp.  Pace of shooting /amount of ejected co2 controls internal temp.

Outside temp. changes take some time to transfer into the heart of the rifle...and we're impatient. 
Co2 self-cools from decompression duing a shot...hot rod co2 ejects a lot of co2 per shot...and that self cools the heart of the rifle. Takes some time for that heat to transfer to the outside where you can feel it/measure it.

Good news is given enough time and some liquid co2 in thetube/tank, co2 will replace the used gas and regenerate the pressure....but it's the pressure of whatever the new internal temperture of the tube/bottle allowsand will only slowly creep back up to outside/inside "even".

EVEN if you keep the external temperture "even", the internal temperture changes.   In PCP terms,it's like a regulator that works,but takes a long-long time to cycle.


Comparsions to non regulated PCP's:   Both run on the same system of a weight smacking a valve stem being held closed by gas pressure.   
 
Just like non-regulated PCP's,can be adjusted 3 basic ways:
A. cranked up/hard striker hit to the vlave stem:

IF you crank a non-regulated PCP to run it's best at the very highest pressure, it will decline in speed real fast as pressure declines (the "falling off a cliff" type shot graph).

A co2 rifle cranked up to run fast at warm temptertures shows the same  type of decline as temperture falls...becasue internal  temp. and pressure are directly related with co2, the more co2 used, the faster than decline.


B: Bell curve type "sweet spot":

A non-rergulated adjusted for a bell curve type graph (starting slow,reaching a plateau,then falling off in speed) runs well over a wide range of pressures.

Co2 rifle adjusted the same way will also run well over a wider range of tempertures.


C. Over pressure:

IF you accidently over fill a PCP made to run well at 2K with 2.5K, it will shoot SLOWER with the higher pressure.  Accidently fill it to 3K, and it may not shoot at all (valve lock).

If you set up an indoor match type co2 rifle to shoot well at cool tempertures (like indoor ranges at 65-70F), it may get into valve lock if taken out into +90F heat.


Lots of rifles.

Counting what I have,and what I seriously tested both ways,have a whole lot of rifles that have been run both ways (Co2 and air).   Co2's converted to HPA,and run both withy co2 tanks/HPA tanks....."dual fuel" rifles run on both....PCP's hooked to CO2 tanks (forbidden by the makers)....co2 bulk fills of PCP's (also "forbidden").

1. Always less energy.

2 . Accuracy  at worst 5-10% worse with co2 at 25 yards.....but at 25 yards that can be like .25" vs .27" averages.
3. Crappy accuracy with co2 is not going to magically improve by JUST a swap to air.
4. Good co2 accuracy stayed good PCP/HPA accuracy....good PCP/HPA accuracy stayed good co2 accuracy.
-----------------

To the rifle being discussed: Older tests:

Although forbidden....did run this one (XS 60C -PCP) as a co2  teathered tanker (my personal risk in ignoring the rules...not a recommendation):




DOWN tuned as a 1.5K PCP on the way to adjsting for 20 shots/ 20 foot pounds:




Short range...but 20 shot groups ans shot from prone:






Which is about what I would expect form all the other tests.

1. Slower, a bit less accurate.
2. Prefectly useable (with a scope adjustment).
3.Seriosuly considering reverse-evolution and setting this one up as a 12gr. co2.

[superchikn]

Ribbonstone,
Thank you for chiming in.  I think somehow you finally got through to me.
I understand the self cooling process of CO2 and I will have to assume that my thought process was that if I did not wait long enough between shots, shot velocity would be lower than a more temperature/pressure equalized string of shots would be, but I thought that the lower velocity would remain somewhat constant and would only cause a need for POA adjustments.  I am getting pattern of groups and or some wild shots that just made no rhyme or reason to me.  When I wait  longer between shots as I did tonight the shots really just stack up.  I'll shoot some groups tomorrow and post some pics hopefully.
Really nice 20 shot groups and thanks for the info again.

[Hoosier Daddy]

E.F. Huton...

[Blowpipe Sam]

E.F. Huton...

I ain't just listening.  I'm taking notes!

[superchikn]

E.F. Huton...

AMEN!

[Wayne52]

I ordered a XS60C in .22 yesterday however soon got an email from Mike saying they were out of stock in the .22's.  I'll just wait til they're back in stock and hopefully that's long before cold weather sets in.