Remington VTR 725 .25 cal magnum, anyone?

[SteveP-52]

First random thought is how long have you had the Hatsan? If under a year, everything should still be under warranty unless you tore the rifle apart. If nothing else, keep an eye on the HatsanUSA refurb page for their Edge springer refurbs. If they have one in .25, they're $39.99 plus shipping gets you an entire gun for parts and I guarantee knowing cost of parts, that's insanely cheaper than buying the parts separately.
All the parts are interchangeable with both the Striker and 1000X rifles being they're the same rifles with minor cosmetic differences, barrels included, and you'd have everything you might need when or if something breaks.
https://hatsanairgunsusa.com/product/_refurbished-edge-spring/

[35 shooter]

I am still a little gun-shy from my experience with my Hatsan .25, where I had to lube and flare pellets and stay inside of 20 yards to get a group. Indeed, I’m tempted to lube and flare pellets for this gun too. Let’s talk a little about spring-piston internal ballistics. What kinds of diameters do we require for good accuracy in a springer? In a powder burner, one or two thou over groove diameter (for cast bullets) is common knowledge. I understand there’s some flaring involved, obturation, that hooks the rifling up with the pellet–so where does head size come in? The heads on the Benji 27.9s are about .249”, skirt is about .252” at its widest. I’m guessing my Hatsan was a fluke or a result of poor QC–I would like to chill out a bit but it will take some consistency from the new Remington to relax me. Also, the parties on this thread all seem to have some engineering and technical expertise, so it seems a good place to continue the conversation.
-Jesse

Even in the powder burner world of home re-loading and casting of boolits there is much discussion of this subject of bullet sizing. While there is some common ground around the numbers you cite it is hardly universal. Pellets, little mini badminton birdies, are odd creatures and seem designed as such to self stabilize, perhaps a carry over or universal design from smooth bore days? I have inspected pellets fired into water and find that the rifling mostly engages with the rear skirt. Thus the pellets must surely wobble down the barrel, especially where as with your Hatson there is a tolerance build (or QC issue). But as well, the skirt design is somewhat self sizing as it must expand outward when it first sees the pressurized air forcing the skirt to conform to the barrel. But the head of the pellet does not. Another consideration is friction, the minimal engagement with the barrel seen by the front part of the pellet reduces the pellet to barrel friction for higher velocity than a boolit shaped projectile that would have more surface area in contact with the barrel and rifling.

Does any company have a rifling similar to Marlin Micro-Groove? The rifling in all of these China built rifles looks like it belongs in a 45-70 .

Are there pellet molds that can be purchased for home casting? And in differing sizing?

Absolutely.... NOE Bullet Molds. They make pellet molds also in .22 cal. and up.

[jlp920]

+1 on the NOE pellet molds. I have 2, one in .22 and one in .25. The .25 is about 26 grains, called the “hunter,” has a flat nose. The .22 is about 18 grains and much the same shape. Al Nelson also offers a 33 grain .25 and a 24 grain .22, along with a few airgun slugs. Oh, and a 21 gr. .25 wadcutter.

The Hatsan was a refurb, purchased from their website for about $80 if memory serves. Now that I have the Remington, which shoots hard and well, I will probably just plink with the Hatsan anyway. It shoots 19.91 grainers OK and is a pretty snappy shooter. I measured 22 fpe using JSB 25.39. I do appreciate the suggestion re. a closeout edge...I like surfing their site now and again, I would snap one of those up just cuz.

James, your points are well taken regarding pellet fit and internal ballistics. Airguns certainly have their own set of operating principles that deviate from firearms in many important ways. I think your description of a pellet traveling the length of a barrel illustrates that point.
I was just reading some extremely wonky discussion on measuring throat diameter as being superior to measuring groove diameter in a powder burner (over on the castboolits site), some serious minutae on various slopes, ratios and aspects...Phd stuff man, I tell ya. I respect those minds but just slugging the barrel has always worked for me. I’m not a bench rest shooter and I don’t require half-minute guns.

Back to the original topic, I had my first satisfying session with the Remington today after addressing its various tweaks. Man, it’s blasting those benjies at like 720 FPS and I was pasting a tomato paste can at 20 yard. Definitely feels like it’s running well now. Good stuff,
-Jess

[3crows]

Back to the original topic, I had my first satisfying session with the Remington today after addressing its various tweaks. Man, it’s blasting those benjies at like 720 FPS and I was pasting a tomato paste can at 20 yard. Definitely feels like it’s running well now. Good stuff,
-Jess

There is no reason the 725VTR should not be a decent shooter. It seems most folks like their Benjamin Trail NP and this is the exact same rifle but for a few minor details, better or worse, depending upon preferences. Yes, the 725VTR does hit hard and it would be my thought it is right at the advertised FPE/velocity. The level of accuracy for a magnum break barrel that is really a hunting tool, still not sure exactly what is expected. I understand those anemic little break barrel target bench rest air rifles can shoot decent groups but they hardly approach what a good .22LR could do at twice the distance for accuracy. I guess I have lowered my expectations after working with my Stoeger X20. A scout mounted scope on the barrel would certainly help but there is no such animal that I can find that is air rifle rated?

[Ronno6]

I did the trigger mod using a bicycle chain roller yesterday....trigger nice!
Now, I need to strap on my shoulder saver and sight the beast in.............

[3crows]

I did the trigger mod using a bicycle chain roller yesterday....trigger nice!
Now, I need to strap on my shoulder saver and sight the beast in.............

The bicycle chain roller is a good modification and it works just fine. Sometimes wish I had not left the spring in. But next time I am in the rifle I may reconsider. It does add to the pull weight but with the chain roller or bearing mod the trigger is still much smoother and more predictable.

I am reliably hitting targets (vermin) at 50 yards with this rifle. It is still breaking in but the velocity I am seeing with the JSB Exact King Diablo pellets is 680 FPS and 26 FPE, which is up a little from my first chrono effort. Like I said, it is still breaking in.

[Ronno6]

Still breaking mine in as well.
My efforts are hampered when my neighbor and his kid have to go home.......and I can not cock it by myself....

[3crows]

Still breaking mine in as well.
My efforts are hampered when my neighbor and his kid have to go home.......and I can not cock it by myself....

I doubt it gets much easier to cock, maybe a little. Sitting down, put the butt down between your legs, bottom of the rife away from you, scope toward your belly. Then reach up and slap the barrel away and forward, then grab it, with both hands if needed, and pull it downward. The butt pinched between your legs may put a little pressure, uh, well, you can figure that part out, but with a little care this is the easy way. If you have to shimmy up the rifle a little bit to get a purchase on the barrel go right ahead and do so, that way gravity will sit you back down and help cock the bugger. Frankly, it is stiff, but not all that bad, I have no difficulty with it.

[Ronno6]

Thanks for the tutorial, James.
That's pretty much how I do it.

My comments were tongue-in-cheek.............

[3crows]

Thanks for the tutorial, James.
That's pretty much how I do it.

My comments were tongue-in-cheek.............

I figured so. But with my Stoeger, it feels toyish in comparison for cocking force. I just grab it and break it like a big toothpick with open arms. The 725VTR, uh, no! I rest the butt on my hip if standing, the other way if seated.

I have two neighbor boys who play HS fooseball. When there is anything heavy to move I hire them. They are cheap. Not sure if I could hire one though to sit around and cock my air rifles for me . I already gave them a 392 NIB.

[jlp920]

The Remington would knock you cold or remove a digit if it let go on you. I never let go of the barrel on these things when I’m loading them. I just re-sealed a Diana 25 for comparison, it’s like a pop gun.


FWIW, I removed the trigger spring (the one that’s easily accessible) when I did the RC bearing fix and it is fine. There is another spring in there somewhere that resets the trigger.

[jlp920]

That should be no discouragement, since any magnum breakbarrel rifle has the same potential for harm if mis-used. This is a GREAT rifle for the money and I’m really looking forward to squirrel season.

[unionrdr]

That's an electron beam weld on the picatinny rails. I used to run an electron beam welder at Ford in Cinci on the ATX reverse gear hubs. And my 725VTR was about 200 bucks when they first came out.

Hey, yes, I see that it is welded now. When I first looked at it I thought the rail was aluminum and that it was bonded. But, yes, under magnification it is easy to see that the rail is indeed welded to the spring tube.

I see two 725VTR at $219 at Cabalas locally. Good thing I went to our local Gander. It was priced $199 and on sale for $153.

I am not sure I want to double my investment with the camo dip. It is beautiful I agree and your rifle is extraordinary. I have Krylon/2K painted several stocks and that runs me about $50 for materials. To tell the truth, I like the VTR better than the Trail. I like thumbhole stocks but not this derivation that Crosman uses. And I like synthetic stocks over wood for field guns. I think the VTR is the better rifle.

I may have to do that sling mount. I consider this rifle a hunter, not a plinker or target shooter. I could do a AR type side sling with twist in locks or a conventional sling just looped on the barrel or do it right like you did with the sling mount on the stud. You do good work!

James

  Yeah, the Realtree Edge camo dip at Mid Ohio Hydrographics cost me $128. And by masking the grip and trigger guard areas, it looks factory. I think it's worth it.  I'm also gonna have them do the same camo on my Winchester 1977XS pumper. 1000FPS deserves it I think?

  And thanks for the kudos on the Remington mods. I learned a lot of by-hand stuff with grinders & files from my dad. He obviously got it from Grandpa, who was a Bavarian cabinet maker. Now it shoots well and looks great. And now that I got a Caldwell G2, I might be able to get decent numbers?

[3crows]

I have been distracted by PBs for the last days but I pulled out the Thumper this afternoon to give it a few shots. It is a lot of fun to shoot. And I have been doing my push ups so now I can actually cock it without getting  the come-along from my Jeep.