Shoot grouping stability.

[skorec]

If I have not  a big problem whit my .177 and .22   PCPs  or pellets  or wind my five shoot groups at 77 yd are between 0,5*MOA and 2,5*MOA.
 
-   60% of them are 1,2-1,8*MOA 
-   30% of them  are 1,8-2,5*MOA 
-   7% of them  are 0,8-1,2*MOA 
-   3% of them  are 0,5-0,8 *MOA 

Did you reach much   better long time stability of grouping ?   

[Gerard]

If I have not  a big problem whit my .177 and .22   PCPs  or pellets  or wind my five shoot groups at 77 yd are between 0,5*MOA and 2,5*MOA.

I'm struggling a bit with the wording here. Did you mean something like this?
'I have got a big problem with my .177" and .22" PCPs (or pellets? or wind?). My five shot groups at 77 yards are between 0.5MOA and 2.5MOA.'
If so, the first part is confusing. Are you saying, for example, that you are not sure whether your inconsistent group sizes at 77 yards are possibly due to wind or improper pellets, but that you don't know if there is wind or if your pellets are not good? No one here can answer whether you have wind - you need to put up wind flags/ribbons and check that for yourself. Wind certainly increases group size if the wind is inconsistent, with groups typically opening up horizontally. As for pellets, all you can do is buy a bunch of different kinds, shoot them on a very calm day, and see how the group sizes compare. Again, not something anyone else can do for you, unless you give them your gun for testing.

Next, I am not understanding what is meant by these numbers:

-   60% of them are 1,2-1,8*MOA 
-   30% of them  are 1,8-2,5*MOA 
-   7% of them  are 0,8-1,2*MOA 
-   3% of them  are 0,5-0,8 *MOA

It could be a), that you are reporting the group sizes at 77 yards for 60%, 30%, 7%, and 3% of your airgun collection. If that is the case, then it seems you have at least 100 airguns, as I'm struggling with the math of representing less than 7 airguns of 100 resulting in a 7% statistical result.

So it seems more likely to be b), that you are talking about percentage of shots which fall within a given circle size from whatever number of airguns you have, at 77 yards. But if this is the case, the numbers do not seem meaningful. I mean, any given group will likely show holes at different distances from each other as measured from target centre. You may choose to draw circles at arbitrary distances from centre, but this does not represent anything useful in terms of analysis of a given airgun's accuracy. If I shoot a 1.8MOA group (about 1.386" at 77 yards?) and then pick the three shots closest to the middle of my target and draw a circle around them (call this 0.5MOA, or about 0.385"), this does not say that for 3% of my test series of 100 shots on that target show an accuracy for the rifle of 0.5MOA, it only says that these three pellets fell inside of the 1.8MOA overall accuracy potential for this rifle (and for my shooting ability with this rifle).

So between these two interpretations, I'm struggling to find the meaning of your post.

Did you reach much better long time stability of grouping?

Well this part at least seems simpler to interpret. Long and careful practice usually results in better skills. My shooting has definitely improved with practice. My groups have become smaller. So yes.

[skorec]

Sorry for my English and thanks for your patience. 

If I have not  a big problem whit my .177 and .22   PCPs  or pellets  or wind my five shoot groups at 77 yd are between 0,5*MOA and 2,5*MOA.

I'm struggling a bit with the wording here. Did you mean something like this?

NO, When any  big problem  is ( whit gun ,pellet, wind, scope,....) the grouping is poorer then 2,5*MOA and  therefore there is no any reason to discussed it at all.

'I have got a big problem with my .177" and .22" PCPs (or pellets? or wind?). My five shot groups at 77 yards are between 0.5MOA and 2.5MOA.'
If so, the first part is confusing. Are you saying, for example, that you are not sure whether your inconsistent group sizes at 77 yards are possibly due to wind or improper pellets, but that you don't know if there is wind or if your pellets are not good? No one here can answer whether you have wind - you need to put up wind flags/ribbons and check that for yourself. Wind certainly increases group size if the wind is inconsistent, with groups typically opening up horizontally. As for pellets, all you can do is buy a bunch of different kinds, shoot them on a very calm day, and see how the group sizes compare. Again, not something anyone else can do for you, unless you give them your gun for testing.

Next, I am not understanding what is meant by these numbers:

-   60% of them are 1,2-1,8*MOA 
-   30% of them  are 1,8-2,5*MOA 
-   7% of them  are 0,8-1,2*MOA 
-   3% of them  are 0,5-0,8 *MOA

It could be a), that you are reporting the group sizes at 77 yards for 60%, 30%, 7%, and 3% of your airgun collection. If that is the case, then it seems you have at least 100 airguns, as I'm struggling with the math of representing less than 7 airguns of 100 resulting in a 7% statistical result.

So it seems more likely to be b), that you are talking about percentage of shots which fall within a given circle size from whatever number of airguns you have, at 77 yards.

“b”  is right and I am speaking about thousand of five shoot groups done in 5 years period. 
A lot of  people  present here 0,5*MOA groups  but I am thinking that they are speaking only  about   1-10%  of each five shoot groups.


But if this is the case, the numbers do not seem meaningful. I mean, any given group will likely show holes at different distances from each other as measured from target centre. You may choose to draw circles at arbitrary distances from centre, but this does not represent anything useful in terms of analysis of a given airgun's accuracy. If I shoot a 1.8MOA group (about 1.386" at 77 yards?) and then pick the three shots closest to the middle of my target and draw a circle around them (call this 0.5MOA, or about 0.385"), this does not say that for 3% of my test series of 100 shots on that target show an accuracy for the rifle of 0.5MOA, it only says that these three pellets fell inside of the 1.8MOA overall accuracy potential for this rifle (and for my shooting ability with this rifle).

So between these two interpretations, I'm struggling to find the meaning of your post.

Did you reach much better long time stability of grouping?

Well this part at least seems simpler to interpret. Long and careful practice usually results in better skills. My shooting has definitely improved with practice. My groups have become smaller. So yes.

[Gerard]

Ah, so you mean that "a lot of people" are cherry picking their groups, shooting a lot of groups until they find an ideally small group and then presenting that as if it were typical. That's a nice way of saying it. A more straightforward way of saying this would be something like 'a lot of people lie about the accuracy of their air rifles.'

I've met a fair number of airgun enthusiasts. It becomes clear rather quickly when someone isn't being honest about the accuracy of their air rifles. They miss small targets. They shoot big groups. I've never posted anything like hard numbers for accuracy of my air rifles, simply because I rarely get an opportunity to shoot at ranges greater than 10 metres. And when I do, it's usually in an informal setting, like a friendly HFT session with a dozen or so other hobby shooters, the odd competitive shooter mixed in using a Steyr or other high end air rifle with some 'serious' glass mounted. I've seen guys who can consistently explode a standard paintball at 40 metres from a casual rested position on a stool, without sticks. I've seen guys with expensive gear who make excuses and don't spend a lot of time shooting as well. Again, really easy to tell the difference.

For my part, my air rifles aren't 'serious' as I've not bothered to commit the financing to a serious air rifle, I use Chinese stuff which I modify extensively. And that's good enough for my squirrel problems and for casual target shooting. I know my several airguns are each capable of sufficient inherent accuracy that so long as I take careful aim, I don't need to worry about random fliers or big groups to at least 20 metres. The squirrel will be ended, quickly and painlessly, as dime-sized groups are the rule for that range - anything bigger than that and I just lose interest in an airgun, won't use it. For rats I'm more fussy, and use a Pardini K12 modified into a carbine - my old competition pistol from when I shot 10 metre air pistol formally. It'll stack pellet upon pellet within ratting range. It never misses. Pardini barrels are legendary.

Now I don't know anything about the specifics of your complaint regarding others' reports of accuracy, and frankly the wording of your original post still confuses me greatly, in a way made worse by your efforts at clarification. I know that I would never report accuracy I wasn't seeing 100% of the time from an airgun. That would be lying. I know that I've seen a number of top shooters such at Ted or Matt demonstrating in Youtube videos that their airguns are capable of sub-MOA groups, shot after shot, group after group, all day long. Those guys aren't lying, they simply get excellent results because they use good equipment, well tuned, and have put in the practice time so that their have excellent skills. I'm not sure who else you might be calling a liar... but it seems, well, sort of unfriendly, generally. Perhaps you could clarify further, if such was not your intention.