Perceived weight/balance of HW77k vs RWS 48

[Sneaky Fox]

Hi everyone,
I’m thinking about a future purchase and have been leaning towards either an RWS 48 or HW77k in .177.  I was shooting my RWs 34 on a course the other day with all standing unsupported (no bracing on hip) shots and it started to feel a little front heavy. I then tried out someone’s FWB300, and despite being what I assume must be a heavier gun, the balance was more towards the rear, and it felt worlds lighter and easier to support with my off hand. Here’s what I’m trying to figure out. Putting everything else to the side, power etc, I know both the D48 and HW77k are about a pound heavier than the 34 and both about the same weight, but how do they balance in the hand, and thus how easy or difficult would they be to shoot repeatedly in an unsupported standing position? Make sense?

Thanks!

[HectorMedina]

Balance is more important than weight, that is absolutely right.

The 300 balances well because it is a skinny barrel in a big butt-stock.

Some other match guns balance well because they use a heavy "hook" for a buttplate.

USUALLY, the standing unsupported position is useless, except in the case of moving targets/moving gunman; and in this case, the forward hand (non-trigger) has to be WELL forward. If you can manage this position (sometimes called the trap-shooter's stance), then you CAN use your scope weight to improve the balance of the rifle.

Of course, some physical training would also help.

I would like to understand better what was the course about and why the restriction(s), I have never heard before about something like this.

HTH



HM

[Sneaky Fox]

Hi Hector,

I oversimplified things in my post a little bit. It’s not any official course or competition, just a club level course which we usually shoot standing more or less for the challenge/added difficulty/hunting practice. Most of the shots are at an upward angle, which at least for me makes it difficult to assume any type of supported standing shot. I guess even putting the standing position aside, I have trouble with a nose-heavy rifle, and was just curious about thoughts as to the balance of an RWS48 vs HW77k. I’ve heard people say that the 48 balances better than the 34, despite the additional pound or so.

[Yogi]

Also, the standing unsupported position is more fun and you don't get your pants dirty.

-Y

[Sneaky Fox]

Hahaha that too. Basically I’m looking at the two options but dont want to have buyers remorse if they’re way too heavy/poorly balanced to shoot unsupported, and was just wondering how they compared and how standing friendly they were.

[Yogi]

Hahaha that too. Basically I’m looking at the two options but dont want to have buyers remorse if they’re way too heavy/poorly balanced to shoot unsupported, and was just wondering how they compared and how standing friendly they were.

Sneaky,

get a HW 50!
Most standing friendly rifle there is that still has some umph.

-Y

[Horatio]

Hahaha that too. Basically I’m looking at the two options but dont want to have buyers remorse if they’re way too heavy/poorly balanced to shoot unsupported, and was just wondering how they compared and how standing friendly they were.

Sneaky,

get a HW 50!
Most standing friendly rifle there is that still has some umph.

-Y

What does a hw50 put out, fpe? Thank you.

[Sneaky Fox]

Hmm that’s an interesting thought. Do you prefer the lower weight over the loss of velocity when compared to a hw95? I guess I was hoping to have a gun that was great at everything, from hunting and standing shots to potential field target shooting.

[grimeszee]

I love the balance of My Walther LGU for off hand shooting. I used to use a D34 for FT until I had the same problem with the forced shooting lanes and the front heavy D34. The Walther LGU is so easy to rest in the pocket and hit targets out to 50 yards with little stress on the shoulder. The depth of the stock in front of the trigger housing is the biggest plus I feel with the LGU.

[Sneaky Fox]

Thanks that’s great info!

[HectorMedina]

Hahaha that too. Basically I’m looking at the two options but dont want to have buyers remorse if they’re way too heavy/poorly balanced to shoot unsupported, and was just wondering how they compared and how standing friendly they were.

OK. Now I get it.

I would SUGGEST you talk to the guys at UMAREX or Pyramyd Air and ask for a short barrel for your 34.
The reason why we made the 34k (a 34 in 0.20" cal with a L-W barrel) so short was precisely to allow smooth following for shots at moving targets, as well as a shotgun-like quick climb to the shoulder for squirrely/chipmunky targets that present very fast shots, therefore,  what you call "unsupported offhand".

The Pro Compact barrels for the 34 are shorter and improve the balance greatly with short/medium/light scopes.

You can then add weight at the muzzle to get the balance you want. A sleeve would also add weight or stiffness, depending on the material chosen.

At about $200 for the OEM barrel (installed), it makes more sense to change the barrel of what you already have than getting a completely new gun. You could also change the caliber, if that is what you want.

The Walthers are GREAT offhand rifles (both the LGV and the LGU), but the stock is designed for what you would call a "supported offhand" position, where the shape of the stock matters a lot more than the weight distribution.

IMHO your solution is a shorter barrel.

HTH





HM

[Sneaky Fox]

thanks for the information Hector, that’s an interesting idea and I didn’t know you could get parts/service directly from Umarex.

[Yogi]

Hahaha that too. Basically I’m looking at the two options but dont want to have buyers remorse if they’re way too heavy/poorly balanced to shoot unsupported, and was just wondering how they compared and how standing friendly they were.

Sneaky,

get a HW 50!
Most standing friendly rifle there is that still has some umph.

-Y

What does a hw50 put out, fpe? Thank you.

13fpe in .22 with Vortex kit.  Nice solid thump!  Just a little less in .177.
I do not shoot past 50 yards.

-Y

[Yogi]

Hahaha that too. Basically I’m looking at the two options but dont want to have buyers remorse if they’re way too heavy/poorly balanced to shoot unsupported, and was just wondering how they compared and how standing friendly they were.

OK. Now I get it.

I would SUGGEST you talk to the guys at UMAREX or Pyramyd Air and ask for a short barrel for your 34.
The reason why we made the 34k (a 34 in 0.20" cal with a L-W barrel) so short was precisely to allow smooth following for shots at moving targets, as well as a shotgun-like quick climb to the shoulder for squirrely/chipmunky targets that present very fast shots, therefore,  what you call "unsupported offhand".

The Pro Compact barrels for the 34 are shorter and improve the balance greatly with short/medium/light scopes.

You can then add weight at the muzzle to get the balance you want. A sleeve would also add weight or stiffness, depending on the material chosen.

At about $200 for the OEM barrel (installed), it makes more sense to change the barrel of what you already have than getting a completely new gun. You could also change the caliber, if that is what you want.

The Walthers are GREAT offhand rifles (both the LGV and the LGU), but the stock is designed for what you would call a "supported offhand" position, where the shape of the stock matters a lot more than the weight distribution.

IMHO your solution is a shorter barrel.

HTH





HM

Hector,

i thought Diana stopped making the compact barrel for the 34 and 340 N-tec?  I do not see them listed anywhere...

-Y

[HectorMedina]

Hahaha that too. Basically I’m looking at the two options but dont want to have buyers remorse if they’re way too heavy/poorly balanced to shoot unsupported, and was just wondering how they compared and how standing friendly they were.

OK. Now I get it.

I would SUGGEST you talk to the guys at UMAREX or Pyramyd Air and ask for a short barrel for your 34.
The reason why we made the 34k (a 34 in 0.20" cal with a L-W barrel) so short was precisely to allow smooth following for shots at moving targets, as well as a shotgun-like quick climb to the shoulder for squirrely/chipmunky targets that present very fast shots, therefore,  what you call "unsupported offhand".

The Pro Compact barrels for the 34 are shorter and improve the balance greatly with short/medium/light scopes.

You can then add weight at the muzzle to get the balance you want. A sleeve would also add weight or stiffness, depending on the material chosen.

At about $200 for the OEM barrel (installed), it makes more sense to change the barrel of what you already have than getting a completely new gun. You could also change the caliber, if that is what you want.

The Walthers are GREAT offhand rifles (both the LGV and the LGU), but the stock is designed for what you would call a "supported offhand" position, where the shape of the stock matters a lot more than the weight distribution.

IMHO your solution is a shorter barrel.

HTH





HM

Hector,

i thought Diana stopped making the compact barrel for the 34 and 340 N-tec?  I do not see them listed anywhere...

-Y

Got a quote from UMAREX some time ago.
They may have some left, or not, depending on the caliber.
If there is real interest I'll ask again.
Let me know.


HM