AirForce Texan Big Bore Air Rifle vs.Crossbow -Which has More Power for Hunting?

[UpNorthAirGunner]

A local crossbow hunter got a little vocal with me the other day about how he felt the recent changes in the Michigan Deer hunting laws to allow air rifles to be used during the firearm deer season was inhuman and unethical. The irony is I was at a sporting goods store buying some broadheads for my own crossbow for the upcoming archery deer season when this little kerfuffle occurred. 

This video difinitively puts to the rest not only the question of - are air rifles powerful enough to hunt deer with, but also the question - which is more powerful - a big bore air rifle or a crossbow.  The results may surprise you - check it out!

[squirrel_hunter]

 its not really power but a well placed shot that kills whitetail deer...my recurve crossbow is good out to 40 yards and I think the air rifle reaches out farther than that...both will kill a whitetail deer.

[UpNorthAirGunner]

its not really power but a well placed shot that kills whitetail deer...my recurve crossbow is good out to 40 yards and I think the air rifle reaches out farther than that...both will kill a whitetail deer.

Agreed!  I tried to make that point with the guy and even showed him photos of my shot groupings at 50 and 100 yards with my Texan 1.5" CTC @ 50 yards and 3" CTC @ 100 yards and that wasn't enough proof.  He got really hung up on "Energy" and "FPE" topic - he was convinced that a crossbow arrow carried more energy and air rifles just didn't have the punch to get the job done.  The math just doesn't support that viewpoint. 

I should install the ChairGun App on my phone so when and if I get into one of these conversations again while out and about I can just plug in the numbers and show them right there.  I think Big Bore Air Rifles are so new that the general hunting population just isn't informed and they remember their Daisy Red Ryder BB Gun gun when they hear air rifle.  We continue to educate! 

[Prouzy]

Yes, it the terminal energy that allows for well placed projectiles to create a fatal wound/channel, ie penetration through desired tissue, depth of vital organs, required size of wound channel, etc.  If it was simply all about FPE, we would never lose an animal when shooting with a decent "high powered" rifle.  A poorly placed shot from a .338 Lapua, .50BMG, etc. causing an animal to expire in a slow painful demise is inhumane. 

[kbstingwing]

I agree, a well placed shot is the only humane way to bring down an animal, and a big bore air gun can do it with out a problem, A lot of people and hunters do not know about the evolution of the modern Air gun, most think it's still the old Red Ryder BB gun or a Crosman 760, walk into any Gun store or sporting goods store and look what they have displayed on the rack, Red Ryders, Crosman pumpers and maybe some cheaper Springers (Gamo, Beeman) never have I seen a PCP air gun displayed at any of my local gun stores, I have shown some friend my Air guns and they are in Awe of the technology and shear power produced by these Air guns and they knew nothing about the existence of these before I showed them mine.
    Now Back to the subject, I IMO think the only variable in this situation is the shooter, it doesn't matter what weapon the shooter is using, a shot that is "Not" well placed in the vitals areas will result in a poor inhumane kill or just wounding the animal, the main shooter factor that will cause poor shot placement is "Buck Fever", I never experienced it myself, but I have had friends experience it and had caused them to make poor decisions on shot placement and "Jumping the Gun" so to speak before the animal could give them a prime target profile, being calm and collected is a benefit for a successful and a humane hunt.

[Prouzy]

For sure the shooter. I think some take less than optimal shots, which is not an exchange for FPE.

[Bullfrog]

Its the hole thru the lungs that kills. Make it big enough, and it can't clot and re-inflate. You'll end up with a dead animal in 20 seconds or less every time.

I've shot enough critters in the lungs with my air rifles that I'm convinced the blade from a broadhead often doesn't kill as well as a perfectly round hole from a large caliber pellet.

[Bullfrog]

I also note that animals will sometimes take the shot on a big pellet and just calmly look around until they collapse in their throws. Haven't ever seen that happen with an arrow shot. I suspect a non-deforming pellet puncturing the lungs at 850fps stings less than a set of blades going thru at 250fps. (although when it comes to  HP bullets, I've seen animals react the same to them as by being shot with a broadhead... running until death takes them, I presume the difference is the tearing of the wound channel an HP does)

[MI Yeti]

I hunt deer with a stock single tube samyang dragon claw shooting .500 round ball . So far I have killed two doe, one each season that I have used it . I have not had one run out of sight in fairly dense woods . The amount of damage done to the lungs reminds me of a .50 muzzle loader shooing round ball . I was impressed with how well it dose . At 60 yards my dragon claw makes about 2x the energy that my crossbow dose point blank . Like you guys have said it shot placement is the key .

[rsterne]

Arrows and bullets are totally different.... Have you ever seen a sandbag shot with a 30/06 and a 100# Longbow?.... The bullet ends up in the bag, the arrow passes through.... Pretty impressive, but it doesn't mean the arrow kills better.... just differently....

Bob

[rifle50]

Arrows and bullets are totally different.... Have you ever seen a sandbag shot with a 30/06 and a 100# Longbow?.... The bullet ends up in the bag, the arrow passes through.... Pretty impressive, but it doesn't mean the arrow kills better.... just differently....

Bob

Bullet FRAGMENTS and dumps all energy into bag........Shoot with a solid and it will pass thru with way more energy from 30/06 than the bow.....

Carl

[rsterne]

I assume by "solid" you mean a FMJ like a Military round.... not a hunting bullet designed to expand.... This was a "hunting" demo, and FMJ are illegal for hunting everywhere I know (except maybe Africa?).... You are correct, a hunting bullet from a 30/06 dumps all the energy inside the sandbag.... which is exactly WHY it's a flawed demonstration, as I noted....

but still most impressive, and VERY cool to see....   

Bob

[Bullfrog]

Arrows and bullets are totally different.... Have you ever seen a sandbag shot with a 30/06 and a 100# Longbow?.... The bullet ends up in the bag, the arrow passes through.... Pretty impressive, but it doesn't mean the arrow kills better.... just differently....

Bob

Bullet FRAGMENTS and dumps all energy into bag........Shoot with a solid and it will pass thru with way more energy from 30/06 than the bow.....

Carl

Keep in mind also that it isn't the energy that kills. Death on a lung-shot animal comes from making a large hole thru the lungs that causes the lungs to deflate and collapse. It doesn't matter whether the hole was made by 75fpe or 2000fpe. The hole is a hole no matter what kind of projectile made it. So long as the hole is large enough to not clot and it does in fact pierce both lungs, the hole itself will kill the animal in about 15-20 seconds. Its pretty consistent across the animal kingdom. I've seen zero difference between rifle, bow, and airgun-shot animals on lung shots when hydrostatic shock is factored out of the occasion. FPE is only relevant in three ways; 1) More FPE might create a larger internal wound channel, ensuring the hole is large enough to not clot and also causes to wound to bleed out as a secondary cause of death if the lung shot wasn't true, 2) FPE ensures maximum penetration to pierce both lungs, and 3) FPE can sometimes cause hydrostatic shock, which is in fact a direct response to the kinetic energy of the bullet being dumped into the animal. However, I think one has to factor hydrostatic shock out of the occasion, as its a bit of a random occurrence that doesn't directly correlate to the FPE or mushrooming of the projectile alone. In fact I do not believe there is any agreed upon scientific understanding of the process.

I suppose FPE can also be relevant to whether the shot physically knocks the animal down, but I've seen some animals get knocked down on low FPE shots and take the shot standing on some high FPE shots and whether the animal is knocked down or not doesn't really correlate to whether the shot is a quick killing shot. .

[mann]

The dragon claw can shoot a arrow over 400 fps weighing the same as the arrow shot by a crossbow even a fast crossbow is only like 330 fps  it doesn't compare . Then I've heard the argument that the broad head cuts and makes a larger wound channel again not true

[MI Yeti]

The dragon claw can shoot a arrow over 400 fps weighing the same as the arrow shot by a crossbow even a fast crossbow is only like 330 fps  it doesn't compare . Then I've heard the argument that the broad head cuts and makes a larger wound channel again not true

There are crossbows that shoot 400fps and over .  The Excalibur bulldog 400 recurve is one example .

[kbstingwing]

My crossbow only makes 10,000,000 FPE.....

[mann]

Shows what I know

[kbstingwing]

I don't think anyone will be hunting with a crossbow that shoots telephone poles with ship anchors for the broadhead,  ,

 ok, I haven't done archery in a long time and I'm kinda out of touch with the new technology, but I hear that there are some Awesome Bows and Crossbows out there, I do know a little about Air guns, and know most of today's Big Bores are Incredible, both Archery and Air gun will kill a Deer, but from the Bow hunting videos I've watched, the Deer always bolts off and dies 50 or more yards away after bleeding out, I have watched Air gun Deer hunting videos and it seem the deer drop with in the first 50 yards or just slump over right at the point of impact, I think the videos show proof of what is the better at killing a Deer, But I think Bow hunting does less damage to the meat and you get less blood shock and waste of good eating meat, where the Air gun does more damage to the meat and you get more waste.

here's what a Big Bore Airforce Texan .45 does.
not all the hole are from the Texan, just most.....
I don't know about killin' Deer, But it sure kills Bugs..........