Scope creep along dovetail in Ruger Blackhawk Elite / Umarex Surge

[Hotairrifle]

Googling scope creep refers to tons of IT projects. There are seemingly only a couple of threads on these forums about it.

The problem as you can see in this image:



The mounts are sliding a fraction of an inch with each shot against the dovetail. I have them on VERY tight; I do believe if I go any tighter the mount screws are going to strip and die.

I see I can get a single piece mount with multipe screws and really jack that bad boy on there, or put a stop in place (there is one already at the butt-end of the dovetail). But as a matter of interest, surely there must be a way to get these to work out of the box?

[woogie_man]

Try a scope stop on both sides of one ring.

[Anylizer]

 the stop is on there for a reason... why not use it???   JMHO

[condor22]

 Brand and model scope rings? Does the rail have a stop pin hole and also do the ring/s have a stop  pin? You can't tighten a ring clamp enough to prevent creep on a dovetail rail, thus, the OEM scope stop! Use a torque wrench, it will extend a lifetime of use! 

http://www.airgundepot.com/umarex-surge-air-rifle.html Look at the pictures here, this is the way I would recommend placing the rear scope ring against the scope stop. 

[Cgchad]

I ended up using blue lock tite to "bed" the mount to the receiver, it was the only way I got it to stop. In my case I sheared the stop pin on two different mounts and the hole elongated before resorting to that method.

I took a dremmel and roughed up the dove tail, then roughed up the feet.  Cleaned both surfaces with alcohol and let that dry.  Then applied a bead of blue loc tite to all contact areas and tightened down the feet and let it dry for 24 hours.
It hasn't moved in 1500 rounds now.

[nced]

Perhaps this will be of help.........
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com

I've also had scope creep with my heavy Viper scope mounted on my R9 but the issue was proper screw torquing. Here is an example.......
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
By increasing the scope ring screw torque to 15in/lbs and base screw torque to the BKL max recommended 35in/lbs of torque I was able to keep the heavy scope in place on my R9 dovetail.

Viper scope set in inexpensive two piece UTG scope mount.......
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
The rear mount has a stop pin that engages a hole in the receiver tube. The base screw torque is also 35in/lbs and the ring torque is 15in/lbs, however the UTG mount uses 4 screws on the wide top strap rather than 2 screws on the narrower BKL top straps.

I do have a warning about the BKL two piece mounts with the two narrow top straps.......torquing these to 15in/lbs may damage the scope tube!
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
Here is a Vortex Diamondback scope with tube damaged by using 15in/lbs of top strap screw torque. Notice the distinctive "double dent"........
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com

Hope this helps more than confuses!
 

[Hotairrifle]

Thanks for the responses, particularly all the pics nced. That is a heck of a scope you have.

I have ended up backing the mount even further so now it's on the stop. I guess the entire length of the dovetail is just a tease. The scope appears not to be creeping around now, and the tension in the rings appears enough to keep the front mount from moving further back, now that the rear is held from going further back by the stop.

To answer above, it's just whatever the stock scope/mount is on these umarex surge rifles.

I can see why people speak so strangely about the recoil on these.

[nced]

Thanks for the responses, particularly all the pics nced. That is a heck of a scope you have.

I have ended up backing the mount even further so now it's on the stop. I guess the entire length of the dovetail is just a tease. The scope appears not to be creeping around now, and the tension in the rings appears enough to keep the front mount from moving further back, now that the rear is held from going further back by the stop.

To answer above, it's just whatever the stock scope/mount is on these umarex surge rifles.

I can see why people speak so strangely about the recoil on these.

The recoil of a piston gun is considerable, especially a gas ram piston gun with it's sharper recoil! Here are a couple examples of the recoil pin holes in my R9 receiver actually getting deformed by mount stop pins with recoil from my R9 spring piston gun.........
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
I'm currently using a one piece BKL mount that has no stop pin since it has 6 base screws torqued to 35in/lbs, but when I'm using a UTG mount with stop pin I actually modified the stop pin so it has a closer fit to the stop pin hole in the receiver.
UTG mount with unmodified stop pin......
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com

UTG mount larger sleeve pressed onto the factory stop pin.......
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
After using the stop pin with pressed on sleeve I had no further issues with deforming receiver stop pin holes.