dual wire hammer spring (video uploaded)

[shorty]

As fast I could do this test, It really makes me feel comfortable (now that I did it) since Rsterne indicated that I may have been insulting with the way I am trying to explain about the spring. And about a usable string can not be used from a High to low from 3000psi using this spring.

I ran 2 tests. Both tests were at 3000psi fill using 25.39jsb. Only adjustment on the gun was the HS. No other changes. One factor at a time.

1st
20 shots.
3000 PSI
HT2, HS5, and VAS wide open
Max 428fps
Min 413
Avg FPE 9.95
Es 3.5%
Ending PSI 2900. Gauge just didn't really move.

2nd
20 shots.
3000 PSI
HT7, HS5, and VAS wide open
Max 870fps
Min 840
Avg FPE 41.2
Es 3.4%
Ending PSI 2350.

I am glad that worked out. And yes, I have to thank you Rsterne because like I said, I just don't have a good way of explaining things sometimes (you helped alot). It just fits in my head sometimes.

For whoever took this as an insult please speak up. I don't want to sell snake oil to anyone. That's why I have handed out a few of these springs for others to try.

[shorty]

I hope the tests that were performed yesterday showed the capabilities of the usable and capable range of power. I know it was only a 20 shot, shot string but both were in the 4% ES.

I have been a little nervous about people handling the spring. It is possible to "un screw" the spring and you can't get it back together. You end up with literally two 10 lb springs. It's just the nature of how I made the springs.

So I have been toying around with trying to figure out a way to prevent this from happening. Tonight I decided to powder coat a few springs. The powder coat should be thin enough while holding the 2 wires together through the turns. I just have no idea if they will still fit or if the powder coating will flake over time. So, Whatsquirrel asked for a spring yesterday and I added 2 more springs to his package for testing (the powder coated ones). Hopefully he will be able to comment on them.

The other positive thing that may come out of the powder coating is reducing "spring twang". I have read that guys running the War valve and NBH can actually hear this.

[FuzzyGrub]

Any powder paint I have used would flake off the springs with repeated cycling/compressions, and you would have a mess inside the tube that that hammer will be running over, jamming. 

Two problematic springs to make one heavy one, vs just using stiffer wire, can't say I get it.  I don't change my tune on the fly though.  Tune it and leave it for an extended time. 

[shorty]

Thanks for the heads up on the powder coat.

There was a reason why I had to use 2 wires to make the spring. I can not find a spring (and I don't think anyone else can) that is over the 15 lb/in (at 2" length) that fits without grinding the O/D of the spring or fitting the I/D of the HT and HS cap. Unless it was custom made and had to buy over 100 of them with out knowing if it would work. Even the 17 lb/in spring needs to be ground.

Even though this spring sounded like a shoot from the hip build, there was some thought into it.

At HS0 the gun will not valve lock when fully pressurized 3000psi.
At negative preloads, the hammer has less energy on the bounce return to the poppet stem (increased efficiency).
You tune the gun around your fill pressure (why charge to 3000psi if 2200psi gives you the same or more shots per fill with a low ES)
You have the capability of running extremely low fpe (target shooting) to exceeding max FPE by 5 or 8 fpe over stock (with only an HS change).
Valves that have been opened up or custom valves like the WAR have either a really high FPE or a lower fpe and to change them from one to the other (far ends) you need additional mods like Bstaley or "spring" changes.
If the spring was in a regulated gun ( I have no idea what could happen) - got me there.

All I know is that I can (using this spring) can achieve 43 fpe  from a stock gen2 .22 gun with a declining shot string (max power- stock was 38 fpe) to 12-15 fpe for 140 shots at less than 7% ES with a fill charge of 2000 psi.

I guess that's it. I messed up with the marketing with a decent product. Looks like I will need to find a different way to fund the lathe I want. I will be removing or deleting the "hobbiest" classifieds add for the dual wire spring and not so good it up while Whatsquirrel and RDsail tries out the springs.

I never wanted to sell anyone a POS or insult the forum. Compete yes, but not this.

[Whatsquirrel]

I've all ways said don't knock till you try it. What's $20 & some time doing what we like to do. Can't wait to try it out.

[HillGSA]

When you said dual wire spring , I thought you meant dual-wrapped wire spring ? Two wires wrapped together, then formed into a spring


]

[shorty]

That's a stranded wire spring. My spring is a parallel wound spring.One spring backs up the other. Twice the lb/in in the same area while maintaining a linear function. I have only seen this type of spring once ( longer and smaller diameter used in a desert eagle 44 auto mag) for the slide. I then copied it years ago ( many years ago) to prevent bolt bounce with an open bolt fully automatic ruger 10/22.

[shorty]

Hill,
So here's what my spring looks like. What I find really interesting that you recently posted about your 25 cal 50 shot string post. Mine is a gen2 .22 shooting 25.39 but I was able to hit "almost" your exact tune for your 25 at 42fpe out of pure luck.

Yours:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=84768.0

Mine:
2nd
20 shots.
3000 PSI
HT7, HS5, and VAS wide open
Max 870fps
Min 840
Avg FPE 41.2
Es 3.4%
Ending PSI 2350.

I think that's telling us something here because when comparing 22 to 25 there should be a big difference with shot count and fpe. My trade is still open if interested. I would love to see your valve pull a 70+ 10 shot, shot string. I think your valves are only getting in the 60's fpe while your competitors valve is hitting 70+ fpe. The spring might put you over the competition.