Air tubes best to be free floated or not?

[Ribbonstone]

If you want to try, then get the following together first.

It’s the PARANOID’S way (for those of us freaked out about gluing the stock and gun together).

1. Saran wrap (or whatever you use for plastic wrap in the kitchen)
2. little bit of Al. Foil
3. Johnson’s Paste Floor Wax (in the yellow tin as shown..don’t worry, will have lots of uses, including stocks)
4. Epoxy (prefer two-part slow cure black stuff)
5. Coarse steel wool (or fine abrasive paper).
6. Degreaser (Could be mineral spirits, could be Dawn dishwashing liquid and water…whatever you got).
7..Small sharp pen knife

1. Get barreled action out of stock.

2. Plug the stock screw hole (and any other hole) with a tight ball of Al. foil

3. Slightly roughen the stock finish with the coarse steel wool or fine abrasive paper where the bedding is going to go (as in the picture).

4. DEGREASE the roughened area of inletting.

5. Coat the metal work of the action with Johnson’s Past Wax. DO NOT buff, just let it haze over.

($4 and #5 give a clean, slightly rough area for the epoxy to “bite” into.

6. Stretch the Saran Wrap over the metal work of the action. Try to keep it wrinkle free, but countoured to the metal work.  Cover MORE AREA than you expect to need as the epoxy will ooze.

7. Lightly coat the Saran Wrap with wax.. Smear it as thin and even as you can on the Saran Wrap.

8. Mix epoxy for a coating in the areas shown.  Leave a “test pile” of unused epoxy so you can poke at it and judge it’s state of hardness.

9. Press the barreled (plastic coated and lubed as above) action into place in the stock.  Just push it in by hand hard, trying to keep it even as possible in the stock.

10. Can place a sheet of paper between the fore end and air tube if needed to keep alignment.

11. Keep poking the test pile of epoxy. BEFORE it gets rock hard, about when it’s as hard as a dress shoe’s heal, pull the action back out. (this way  it is hard enough to really stick, but soft enough that you can get the action back out even if the epoxy oozed into a recess and mechanically locked the metal in place).

12 PROBALY the  Saran Wrap stuck to the bedding and pealed off the metal work.  That’s OK.

13. Clean any stray epoxy off the metal work while it’s still putty soft.

14.  Small sharp knife to cut off any stay epoxy sticking up over the stock’s edge or oozed into the wrong place.  Best to do that before it’s fully set up.

15. Remove any Al. foil plugs (from #2).

16. Let it sit over night to fully cure.

17. Peel the Saran Wrap  (if it stuck to the bedding) off the now cured epoxy.

[Oldblades]

It’s the PARANOID’S way (for those of us freaked out about gluing the stock and gun together).

Ribbonstone, great writeup and how to.
I've actually done about 10 stocks in rimfire and centfire rifles with Devcon steel epoxy and am always paranoid of glueing the action to the stock. 

The twist in your approach for airguns, that I really like in this application, is the saran wrap. In addition to the concern of the epoxy adhering well (or at all) to that foam stock, was getting the action out after the bedding is cured. The way that I do it is to whack the bottom of the barrel sharply with a rubber mallet. That usually breaks the bond and gets the action started on its way out. Then its just a matter of wiggling it on out the rest of the way.

Problem with the air gun is that the 'whacking point' is the air tube. Probably not a good idea. 

The other things that you do, that I havent, is the use of aluminum foil (which I gotta try now) instead of big ole blobs of plumbers putty.
Anyone thats ever used the stuff (plumbers putty) will know that its really a pain in the butt to clear out and also leaves a good coating of the linseed oil behind on the stock.
And foremost on the list is the little blob of epoxy off to the side to monitor curing status. That one was a 'duh' moment for me as I had never considered such a simple step in the process.

[Ribbonstone]

Don't have any recoil lugs (or real concern about recoil) to deal with, which makes the process easier.  Will take a long time with slow cure epoxy, but the stuff seems stronger than the fast cure types, which gives you time for trimming and clean up.

Probably shoots no better than it did before, although it would take a whole lot of shooting to be sure of that as would be a pretty tiny difference. Does stay stable day to day (or month to month for that matter).

Not real pleased with the small foot print at the rear, which is actually contacting the rear "foot" of the trigger housing, but the only other choice is the end cap..and that's too "wiggly" to use.

[Oldblades]

Not real pleased with the small foot print at the rear, which is actually contacting the rear "foot" of the trigger housing, 

I noticed that also when I was taping up the trigger. The trigger cutout almost appears that it was preexisting from the 2000 Challenger trigger? I'm not familiar with those and was trying to find a pic in google images to try and find out. Inconclusive on that though.
If they had a full platform back there, it would have been very simple to have a rear action screw into the rear trigger group screw hole.

[Ribbonstone]

Co2 Challenger 2000: 

[HillGSA]

The Marauder rifle's design is a little different than your rifle.

The Hill barrel band keeps with the original lines of the factory style B.B. and the picatinny/weaver rail is added "just" to the bottom. This keeps the rail as high up or close to the rifle as possible (see 1st pic).

If I had turned the rail to the rear, the rail would have to extend downward or lower - in order to clear the pressure tube. I felt this extra distance away from the rifle (though not much) was not necessary and could possibly add to the chances of bumping the rifle against something. Since the rail works fine offset to the front, there's no need to chance it.

Also, by keeping the rail close to the rifle, this allows for any other accessories that may be added, to also stay close to the rifle (inline with the pressure tube) (see 2nd pic).

[Oldblades]

Well that looks like it tanks my suspicions. Still dont really understand the reason for that void though? Just looks like a corner was cut or a mistake somewhere. Thanks.


Went out this morning, and explored the free floating the tube thing. Broke out the prussian blue, 220g paper, a deep well socket, and started sanding in the barrel (tube) channel.

There was a whole lot of material at the end creating end support for the tube. However by the time I had all that removed the action screw was bottoming out. So I added a thin washer and commenced some quick testing.

Started with the tube completely free floated and had some nice little groups but they were shifting within the set. So I tried some business cards under the end of the tube, to pretty much mimick the original configuration. Same results as before I had started this endeavor, not good not bad, but noticed some stress on the tube. But I really didnt like that pressure point at the end of the tube.

Last experiment was 2 business cards fit loosely right in front of the rear band. All they really were doing was centering and taking up any slack without any real pressure on the tube.
That turned out to be the winner of the morning, and if this holds true then simply bedding the barrel band would seem like the logical permanant procedure.
 So at this point my thought is that the tube should be free floated..........kinda. 

[Ribbonstone]

Challenger 2000 CO2 stock and Challenger 2009 PCP stock are pretty close externally, so I suppose that Crosman made use of existing stock molds, just changing the inletting.

The Challenger co2 wasn’t(isn’t) much of a match gun.  They did do a whole lot to strangle out a lot of shots from a single 12gr. (like 80-85  shots in summer, more like 70-80 shots in cooler weather) but the soldiered-on-the-tube “Benjamin” type barrel and the Benjamin 397 type trigger  make it into a “7 ring” shooter.  With enough work, can make one into an 9-ring shooter.

Set up right, the PCP Challenger has the 10 ring. Trigger is WAY better and the LW barrel certainly doesn’t hurt.

Sooner or later, will find a local kid with aspirations of 10 meter shooting and the Co2 Challenger will get donated.

[Oldblades]

The kinda sad part is that the more time that goes by, the less chance you will have in finding that kid with an interest in 10M shooting.


Ufda, I went in the wrong direction whatever it was on my forend experiment. Whatever I thought I had earlier, was just a pleasant dream. Gotta back the truck up who knows how far into the previous steps.

Got some Brown Box 10.5's in a package this afternoon and thought that I would give them a try.
Just quickly put out a 30 yd. target and boxed single targets with the scopes windage and elevation, instead of going from target to target.

What a mess. The rifle would generally put 2 or 3 next to, or on top of each other, and then shift 3/8-1/2" in an unpredictable direction.

I wish that I could say that the 2 distinct groups above the target in the lower right were in order. The fact is that the POA was the target below them, but I had no idea which hole that the POI was going to be in on any given shot. 

The things I can do to make a perfectly good 9-10 ring shooter into a solid 6-7 ring shooter. 

[MichaelM]

Really like the challenger stock.. anyone know the cost the stock off the top of their heads?.... would look sexy on my disco double....

[Oldblades]

Really like the challenger stock.. anyone know the cost the stock off the top of their heads?.... would look sexy on my disco double....

Michael, get ahold of Norm on his Discosrus forum and ask him.
His prices are about as good as it gets and I think he can set you up with a turnkey Challenger stock for your double.

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?board=150.0

[Norm_m]

It's a bit tricky to get a Double Tube into a Challenger stock but can be done. The depth of the forend is just enough to be able to do it.
It also requires drilling the hole for the gauge as the Challenger has a side mounted gauge. On the two I have done the hole in the bottom  for the gauge was no issue and I took it one step further by filling in the side hole and they came out very nice.

Norm

[airgunnertoo]

is there any bedding material that would be soft waterproof and help silent the ping?

[HillGSA]

is there any bedding material that would be soft waterproof and help silent the ping?

Probably best to keep the two separate, e.g.; bed the stock is a specific manner/way, de-ping the rifle with a de-pinger sized specifically for your rifles caliber;