Need help with Air filling solution

[svguy]

I am getting a regulated bobcat, which has a 470cc tank, and can be filled to 250 bar (3600) psi.  I want to be able to take the bobcat and a 4500PSI tank on the road, and be able to get a few refills from a 4500psi tank.

I can get scuba tanks filled a mile from my house, but I've called around a few places and can't find anyone to fill a 4500PSI tank.  I'm thinking I need to make up my own solution, without relying on someone to refill a 4500PSI tank.

Currently, I have a single scuba tank with a fill yoke (which doesn't help me for the 3600psi gun).  I also have a standard air compressor.

1.  If I want to refill my own, is the best and cheapest solution, to go with the $600 shoebox and a 80-ish ($600) size 4500psi tank?

2.  I've noticed some 4500psi air tanks don't have a gauge to show you the pressure in the tank.  How could you go without that?  It seems anyone would need to know... unless you just keep filling your gun until you can't get the gun full enough anymore?

Thanks for the advice guys.  I just signed up on this site and everyone is so helpful.  I know this subject is talked about a lot, but it seems everyone is doing something different.

[45Bravo]

First of all, welcome to the GTA.

Check in your area with companies that service fire extinguishers.

If they don't or can't fill it, they can tell you who in the area does hydro testing, and they surely can either do it for you, or point you in the right way.

As large as your town is, there has got to be at least one or 2.


Near us, (tupelo, ms) there is a branch of a national chain called fire guard, they can fill to 10,000 psi.

The way to check your tank pressure without a internal pressure gauge,
is put a special plugged foster connector (called a deadhead) on your hose.
Then fill the hose, it shows your tank pressure.
Close the valve, then bleed the hose.

My Airhog 4500 guppy bottle works that way, no biggie..

Another alternative may be check with a welding supply company and check out the annual rental on a 6,000 psi nitrogen bottle.

Some places are higher than others.
In Tupelo, they are HOLY MOSES expensive,
but in Memphis, tn. (70 miles away) It is much more reasonable..

[svguy]

Thanks Ian, for the great post.  I called around and I can get a 6000psi welding tank for a reasonable price, however it it 350lbs and it's just not practical for me.  I just can't afford a compressor right away.  For now, I've ordered a 4500 PSI tank from airtanksforsale dot com and I'll drive to the paint ball shop to have it filled up.  I think what I'll do is use the scuba tank as much as I can, then top it off with the 4500PSI tank.  That should give me less trips to the fill station.

[45Bravo]

What size did you order?

Paintball shops are cheap fill places most times.

Just a FYI, when they fill it, it will get a little warm.
When it hits 4500, They will hand you your tank back,
I would sit and talk with them, for a few, they will be more than happy to show you their stuff and how they do things.

This lets your tank cool, when it cools, you will find it is about 4000-4300psi.
Not 4500.

Then get them to top it off again.

And you should be set.

[svguy]

I got the "Tiger Shark Deluxe". 
71 Cu Ft (410 Cu In)
9 Lbs, under 19" long by 6.5" diameter

Good tip on the fill. 

[45Bravo]

Nice tank, a friend has one he bought second hand.

His we think has a regulator built in, as it only fills our guns to 2800psi, even though the tank has 4000+ in it..

[Midwestairgunner]

I may be wrong but I think some fire stations can fill them. Wouldn't hurt to ask

[45Bravo]

Oh, by the way, the local shop here fills a 4500 tank for $8, less if it is just a top off.

And at 3000 psi fill on a gun, that's a lot of fills.
Yours is 3500 I know.

My friend decided that the ease and cost of stopping by the fill shop, and having them top off the tank,
out weighs the cost and maintence of a shoebox..

[45Bravo]

Our local fire stations do fill them, but that is small town Mississippi, some places aren't allowed to..

Or so I have heard.

[maraudinglizard]

This is a set up that I will eventually have without having to look for an electrical outlet and having to worry about condensation as well, plus it's portable as well. 

[svguy]

This is a set up that I will eventually have without having to look for an electrical outlet and having to worry about condensation as well, plus it's portable as well. 

 I watched this video the other day.  That guy is a crack up.  Genius idea, though!

I had a conversation with the guy on ebay who sells the HPA booster pump.  What a jerk he was to me over email.  I won't buy one from him, that's for sure.  Where else can you get one?

[maraudinglizard]

I had a conversation with the guy on ebay who sells the HPA booster pump.  What a jerk he was to me over email.  I won't buy one from him, that's for sure.  Where else can you get one?

If I may ask what the seller said which resulted you looking for another place or website to buy from.  As for other places to look for, check paintball suppliers, scuba suppliers, and any equipment company that deals with HPA applications. You can email Bob at www.mrhollowpoint.com and he can answer your some of questions about the pump. Just be patient with his responses, he is pretty busy right now.

http://theairguy.myshopify.com/products/paintball-gas-booster-hpa-air-pump-fill-station-5000psi-50-1-big-bore-rifle-usa

[caniborrowsomeammo]

Nice tank, a friend has one he bought second hand.

His we think has a regulator built in, as it only fills our guns to 2800psi, even though the tank has 4000+ in it..

I have the Tiger Shark from Joe, it has a Slow Flow valve (very nice when filling), but is not regulated. In fact I see no way to regulate right at the tank. It would have to be regged after the 347.

[45Bravo]

His is a tiger shark from joe also.

With the full armor up package.

Just don't know why it doesn't fill the guns all the way.

[caniborrowsomeammo]

Have him call Joe, he should be able to sort it out.

svguy, that was a good choice if you ask me.   I would still ask at the local FD if they would fill you.

[svguy]

>>>>If I may ask what the seller said which resulted you looking for another place or website to buy from.

It says on his web site:  "A full 80 cubic foot scuba tank should give you about 6 to 8 fills (from empty) for a 68 ci 4500 psi paintball tank, and about 10 to 12 for a 68 ci, 3000 psi tank."

So I emailed him:

ME:
> I am getting a new PCP gun that uses a 470cc air capacity cylinder. Using your HPA booster, and a 80 cu ft scuba tank (and a regular air compressor for the 100psi side), how many fills would you estimate I could get, before the scuba tank gets down to 1000psi?
>
> After the initial fill, I will shoot, and then refill when it gets down to 120 bar (1750psi) and fill it back up to 250 bar (3625psi).
>
> Thanks
> Tom

him:
"I have no idea.  You would have to count the number of fills to know."

ME, thinking I may have asked the question incorrectly:
"So there is no way to calculate it?  For example, if I use the tank calculator, I can get 9 fills from a 4500PSI tank before the tank gets too low to fill the gun up to 3600psi.  For someone like me, if I knew I could pay $600 for your device and get 20 more fills from the same tank, then it would be a no brainer.  But I guess there is no way to estimate it, eh?"

HIM:
"No, there is no way.  There are a thousand variables.  You can try to estimate it if you want to, but you will not have an answer to your question until you actually count the number of fills in your particular situation, with your particular setup.  But, by all means, you don't have to believe me.  I don't know anything about compressed air."


ME:
Yeah I understand what you mean.  Maybe I will get one and see how it does. Either way, it will be mine to have.

>>>> But, by all means, you don't have to believe me.  I don't know anything about compressed air.

Oh? Are you just a reseller of the item?  Maybe I was reading incorrectly.  I thought you were the designer of it.

Thanks,
Tom

HIM:
I was being sarcastic.  I am a mechanical engineer.  I not only designed the booster, but I machined and assembled every component personally.  I have been designing and building compressed air products for many, many years.  I certainly know exactly what I am talking about when I tell you that there are too many variables to calculate number of fills.  But you didn't seem to believe me when I said it the first time.
"But I guess there is no way to estimate it, eh?"  That came off as you trying to be sarcastic towards me.  I can take it, and I can dish it out too.

ME:
"No, I was not being sarcastic at all.  I am fairly new to air guns so I am still learning, and I'm trying to determine if your device would be a good solution for me.  I'll shop for another solution."

HIM: 
"Good luck.  If you want complete fills every time and more total fills out of a tank, there is no other way.  A booster is the only solution."



Maybe I expect too much?  I don't understand why he would hit me with sarcasm on his second email. 

[svguy]

Have him call Joe, he should be able to sort it out.

svguy, that was a good choice if you ask me.   I would still ask at the local FD if they would fill you.

Thanks man.  It comes Friday fed ex.  I'm pretty excited.  I'll post pics.  I asked him about a regulator, so I could dial the output down to ~3200 and shoot straight from the tank. He said a reg is around $400!  Sheesh!  I didn't realize they were that expensive.

I will definitely ask the fire station guys.  There is one only a few miles from my house.  Paintball shop (about 15 miles from me) says they will fill it for $10, but he said his compressor will only be able to get it to 4200.  Not sure why.  Maybe that's what the pressure goes down to once it cools off.  We'll see.

[maraudinglizard]

I see you have found a solution. Good luck and enjoy the new gun.


http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/Tanks/FillCalc.html