hw97k & maccari, what to buy?

[jquin]

Hi all
I have just taken delivery of a new hw97k and am considering a tune up.
Ive been lured into it on the promise of an even smoother action, better accuracy and greater sex appeal.
The gun seems to shoot just fine but I'm led to believe it will be better with a maccari kit.
So I have no idea what to buy (factory power is just fine, accuracy is more important)
Im guessing a
-FAC kit for 97
-front seal of some kind
-molygrease
-???

I think im fairly mechanically minded so the install doesnt worry me, having said that any advice/instructions would be welcome.

BTW what is a delrin hat and do i need/want one? :-)

Thanks in advance

[nced]

Perhaps this will help!


As far as accuracy is concerned, the tuning might not help as much as you'd think since the HW97 is rather accurate, even in "factory twang mode". What the tune parts WILL do is make the gun more pleasant to shoot since it won't twang and vibrate with properly installed aftermarket parts. Also, I personally believe that good aftermarket parts like those offered by Maccari are more long lasting. 

[Roadworthy]

If this is a new gun (as opposed to a new to you gun) you may want to put a few hundred rounds through it before doing anything.

Now go shopping for a kit if you still wish be it Vortek, Maccari, or whatever.  The springs in either are reputed to be superior to factory springs and a properly fitted spring guide will reduce or eliminate twang.

[Rob Hawkins]

If this is a new gun (as opposed to a new to you gun) you may want to put a few hundred rounds through it before doing anything.

Why?
What advantage is there to do that if all the internals are coming out?
Rob

[Roadworthy]

The rationale behind shooting the new gun as it is would be to get familiar with the new gun and determine whether the tune being considered is desired or required at this point.

On the better guns little accuracy is gained from a tune, if any.  They may be smoothed a little, though they are usually quite good to start.  The power level will not change greatly.  The greatest benefit is eliminating spring noise, which doesn't really affect operation or accuracy.

The new gun should be cleaned to remove manufacturing debris.  Beyond that, shooting the gun and breaking it in will probably have a greater effect on accuracy than an owner tune up.  A tune can not replace a break in.

[nced]

 Deleted

[nced]

Why?
What advantage is there to do that if all the internals are coming out?
Rob

PERHAPS because the HW77/97 have "internals" that are sliding parts (such as the piston, compression chamber and linkages) that do "wear in" with use and aren't "spring,guide & such". Shooting a few tins of pellet prior to adding a new spring kit is a good practice prior to adding a spring kit as was indicated by the original poster who states "I think im fairly mechanically minded so the install doesnt worry me". Who knows, perhaps with a few tins of pellets down the tube the gun smooths up to the point that the owner decides he doesn't need any tune parts.

I disassembled my new R9 before even shooting a pellet over a chrony because I've had/tuned quite a few and know exactly what to expect. If I was new to HW springers like my latest R9s I would have been very disappointed with the rough cocking and twangy shot cycle thinking it NEEDED a tune, however I also know that the rough twangy shot cycle WILL smooth up a LOT after a couple tins of pellets. Since I like a a specific twangless/vibrationless shot cycle and velocity I PERSONALLY wouldn't be satisfied with the shot cycle of ANY HW springer in factory trim.......but that may not be true for other shooters!

LOL.....years ago my brother and I were shooting an offhand class field target match squadded with a fellow who would shoot offhand scores that would place in the lover 1/3rd of the open class shooters. It was amazing how accurate he was with his old HW77!!!!! He had a duct taped on cheek forearm riser, a set back trigger made by cutting off the trigger blade and screwing on a bent aluminum strip after drilling and tapping the existing trigger "butt". With every shot the gun twanged like a WV screen door spring. My brother commented....."ya ever consider gettin the gun tuned? LOL" Dave simply commented......."Wellll, guess it could shoot smoother but it's shootin' so good I don't wana mess with it".    LOL......NUFF SAID! 

[nced]

The rationale behind shooting the new gun as it is would be to get familiar with the new gun and determine whether the tune being considered is desired or required at this point.

On the better guns little accuracy is gained from a tune, if any.  They may be smoothed a little, though they are usually quite good to start.  The power level will not change greatly.  The greatest benefit is eliminating spring noise, which doesn't really affect operation or accuracy.

The new gun should be cleaned to remove manufacturing debris.  Beyond that, shooting the gun and breaking it in will probably have a greater effect on accuracy than an owner tune up.  A tune can not replace a break in.

Well said! X2 here!

[nced]

The rationale behind shooting the new gun as it is would be to get familiar with the new gun and determine whether the tune being considered is desired or required at this point.

On the better guns little accuracy is gained from a tune, if any.  They may be smoothed a little, though they are usually quite good to start.  The power level will not change greatly.  The greatest benefit is eliminating spring noise, which doesn't really affect operation or accuracy.

The new gun should be cleaned to remove manufacturing debris.  Beyond that, shooting the gun and breaking it in will probably have a greater effect on accuracy than an owner tune up.  A tune can not replace a break in.

The first patch pulled through the bore of the R9 I bought (prior to my latest rough R9) looked like this...........

LOL....the price gives you an idea of how long ago that was! Still, while the bore was "cruddy", the internals were clean (however over lubed). Also, I recently did some tuning on a HW97 and the internals were again very clean and "well lubed". Here are the parts just freshly from disassembly...............




In "factory twang mode" the gun shot 3/8" ctc groups at 30 yards when the owner brought the gun to my brother for testing. Afte a couple months the owner of the "97" wanted the gun tuned to "remove the twang and make it shoot more accurately", plus he wanted to replace the factory piston seal with one of my oring sealed piston caps. I was a bit confused by the "make it shoot more accurately" comment, however I did make up a fitted guide and top hat for his spring, degreased and relubed the internals, reassembled and did an "after tune" function/accuracy test. Well.....I was shocked by how poorly the gun grouped after the tune at only 18 yards and here is a pic of the target.......

The shots in the groups were all over the place with no "rhyme or reason"! Hummm.....then I got the bright idea to actually CLEAN the bore. This was the result........

A nice tight 1 hole 5 shot group shot hunter class field target style (sitting on a bucket resting the gun on cross sticks), not bench rested. Since the gun had a 4-12 Hawke AirMax mounted I also took a couple 10 yard shots to see if the poi would shift simply by focusing and shooting from 18 yards to 10 yards like the two AirMax I owned "poi shifted" when focusing. There was a bit of horizontal shifting but probably not enough to matter to most folks.

Bottom line, I'm pretty sure that the owner of the "97" thought the gun needed tuning because his groups opened up, yet his accuracy issue (I'm convinced) was only a dirty bore, but it was now twangless and accurate so he was pleased with the work done!

[JimL911]

This is what you want.
http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251488/43397.htm
http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251485/1151533.htm
http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251484/42989.htm
http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251484/42987.htm
and to have a spare on hand
http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251485/2425046.htm

[jquin]

Thanks enormously for your responses.

Yes it is a brand new gun and i am in the process of wearing it in.
I love pulling stuff apart and 'improving' them.
So it looks like I've got some fun ahead of me

[jquin]

This is what you want.
[xurl=http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251488/43397.htm]http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251488/43397.htm[/url]
[xurl=http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251485/1151533.htm]http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251485/1151533.htm[/url]
[xurl=http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251484/42989.htm]http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251484/42989.htm[/url]
[xurl=http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251484/42987.htm]http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251484/42987.htm[/url]
and to have a spare on hand
[xurl=http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251485/2425046.htm]http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251485/2425046.htm[/url]

Thanks especially. This is excellent!

[jquin]

I just got around to ordering the kit and it came in the mail today. Now to start researching the process. ☺

[jquin]

I just stripped it down. There was surface rust on the back part of the receiver in the threads . it strange its always been dry when I've had it.

Anyhow time to degrease.

[jquin]

My rebuild was annoying and I had issues but it is mostly done.
I'm still having some issues with the safety resetting ie I have to cock it twice but I might be to blame as I went a bit nuts with the clear tar and perhaps gummed things up a bit.

Short of that I managed to loose a nut that was part of the trigger. It's the one for the rear trigger guard. None of the strip down advice I read mentioned that it might come loose.
I think I'll have to fashion a replacement out of brass.

Oh well, I guess it turned out ok considering the hurried windows of time I had to work on it.

[nced]

My rebuild was annoying and I had issues but it is mostly done.
I'm still having some issues with the safety resetting ie I have to cock it twice but I might be to blame as I went a bit nuts with the clear tar and perhaps gummed things up a bit.

Short of that I managed to loose a nut that was part of the trigger. It's the one for the rear trigger guard. None of the strip down advice I read mentioned that it might come loose.
I think I'll have to fashion a replacement out of brass.

Oh well, I guess it turned out ok considering the hurried windows of time I had to work on it.

If the nut was the one for the rear trigger guard screw simply buy a 4mm replacement at a Lowes Home center (of where ever). I really don't know how well a brass nut would resist stripping.

[jquin]

Thanks
I have a selection of 4mm nuts to choose from from Stainless to Brass.
I just know brass would be easier to fashion.

If my family lets me alone for more than 10min I'll be able to sort it out. LOL

[mtsheron70]

Being a HW97k owner and having tuned my 97 I feel like I can comment with experience.  First, my rifle shot fine prior to the tune.  My real issue was with the slight "twang" of the spring release from the energy being expelled.  The shot cycle was smooth OEM but in this sport we all look to get the best.  That being said I installed a Vortek PG2 kit which eliminated the "twang" and the resultant was a very impressive "thud" and buttery smooth shot cycle.

Now I just did not install a kit...........I run a tune business so I did the following to this rifle as well:

-Deburr all openings the piston and seal pass.
-Chemically clean the internal compression chamber.
-Polish and used a proprietary process to create a very high sheen to the piston.
-Flitz the parts as well.

The end result was short of amazing.  But to each their own.  I when do a full tune for a customers rifle do this same process.  Hopefully to get wonderful results always for my customers! 

So do you need to put a kit in the rifle................if you have a OCD like me!

[jquin]

Well I have finished the install now and have it all working.
I think it would have gone smoother if I had more time to take it slow.

Anyhow I'm very happy with the result.

Many thanks to all those who gave advice.