Hatsan BT65 - Should I return it?

[AlfredoM]

I received on Friday  the BT65 .25 and Sunday finally I had the time to test it. I have seen many posts in this forum and everybody is happy with it, but I am disappointed with the gun and I am not sure if I want to keep it or return it.
My complaint is with the magazine. Of the pellets I have the only one I have been able to fit are the Kings 25.39gr, the Benjamin domed and the Eun Jin domed are too long and the skirt cannot be seated in the magazine and the precision is affected. The pointed Eun Jin are too long for the magazine.
I have also a Marauder .25 and it does fine with all those pellets.
My point is: what is the advantage of getting a more powerful gun if it cannot use heavy pellets?
I don't know if I should return it or keep it.

[cherokeesteve]

Have same problem with the pointed, heavy eun jin .25 pellets in my AT44PA. Won't load using the magazine. I was able to load as a single pellet not using the magazine and the pellets fit quite nicely. I'm assuming it must be where the magazine is positioned in the breech loading area and am hoping some modification to the magazine will use of it. Haven't had time to look into it, but if it can be done I'll be picking up a couple of extra mags to make changes to.

[AlfredoM]

If I am not wrong the 44 and the 65 share the same magazine.
I don't think that there is too much to be done with the magazines, the 43.2 Eun Jin is actually longer than the thickness of the magazine of about 1/16".
I don't know about the AT44, but for the BT65 the same pellet is longer than the space in the receiver where the magazine goes.
It is sad because I like the gun in general, I even spent 130 dollars for a LDC before getting the gun, but what is the point of buying a more powerful gun than the one I have and then have to use 20 or so grains pellets in it.

[rsterne]

I have found that the only pellets too long to fit in the Hatsan magazines are the 42 gr. EunJin Pointed.... The Plastic nose on Predators can sometimes hang up, although the pellet is short enough.... My magazines have two O-rings on them (that's the way they were when I got them) and that may make a difference to how the pellets are gripped and whether they protrude or not.... My AT44-Long functions fine with Baracudas (and their HP relatives), Benji Domes, EJ Domed, and of course Kings and shorter....

Bob

[AlfredoM]

Actually the Benjamin domed and the Eun Jin domed are actually longer than the cylindrical space in the magazine and their skirts stay in the "valley" area, when the bolt push them in the skirt can get shaved on left and right or compressed on top and bottom or both, particularly on the Eun Jin that are quite larger than the bore of the magazine.
A tested 18 of the Eun Jin at just 10 yards with the gun on a rest and every 3 or 4 pellets one of them was off one to one and a half inch, which is a lot, they never fly like that in the Marauder.

[rsterne]

I guess the BT65 mags must be thinner than the AT44 mags.... Mine measure 0.421", which is larger than all the pellets mentioned except the EunJin Points.... All the other pellets when loaded do not stick out either the front or back of the magazine except the Predators which want to sit sticking out the front about 0.020" but can be pushed back so that they are below flush on both sides....

The EunJin pellets are, indeed, oversize, but that is the nature of those pellets.... They are difficult to load in most barrels unless the chamber is also oversized.... I have never found them to be particularly accurate in any of my quarterbores....

Bob

[AlfredoM]

When the pellet is pushed inside the cylindrical space of the magazine it first encounter the top and bottom edges (A A), then the left and right edges (B B). When the bolt pushes the pellets that are longer than the straight cylinder the edge of the skirt (which is wider than the cylindrical space) is first deformed (ovalized) and then compressed or possibly clipped going through B B. In my opinion that is what causes the imprecision of the Eun Jin pellet in the Hatsan and also in a minor scale of the Benjanin pellets.

[rsterne]

OK, I now understand what you are saying.... I measured the three Hatsan magazines I have here, and they all ran 0.261"-0.262" ID in the cylindrical portion.... The skirt of Benjamin pellets I have are the smallest at 0.255", the Kings are 0.258", the Preds are 0.260", and the EunJins were actually not very round, measuring 0.258"-0.261".... I guess it is possible that the EunJins might get "resized" rounder when fed through the magazine.... but my experience with bullet sizing dies is that up to about 0.003" over no shearing off of the lead occurs....

Once the pellet is chambered, and starts into the rifled part of the barrel, the skirt of the pellet is collapsed further, as the bore diameter (groove to groove) is 0.250" in an airgun barrel, with the lands being 0.243"-0.245" depending on barrel.... That means that ALL the pellet skirts are sized smaller by the barrel itself, regardless of brand.... It is possible that your magazines don't align properly with the barrel, that the probe on the bolt pushes off center, or some other reason that can cause inaccuracy with pellets other than Kings.... OR, it may simply be that the Kings shoot better than the other pellets, they do in all the quarterbores I have.... I suppose it is also possible that your magazines have a smaller hole than mine.... but some measurements should tell you that pretty quickly....

Have you pushed various brands of pellets through the magazine with something like a finishing nail and examined them afterwards to see if the skirts are deformed?.... or in the case of the EunJins REformed to round from oval?.... If the magazine or feeding from it is the problem, pellets loaded singly should group better than the ones fed from the magazine....

Bob

[tkerrigan]

I've found it advantageous to work over the magazine holes with a cravex (small rubber with abrasive dremel point) and fine emery paper in a slotted dowel to eliminate burrs and sharp edges.   
Regards, Tom

[AlfredoM]

It may be the thickness of the Eun Jin pellets skirts, but they were really hard to push in with the bolt, and I am saying with the bolt because the 35.8gr were almost the same length of the magazine so their skirts were not at all engaging in the holes.
Anyway the reason why I got this gun in the first place was to have something with some more knock down power than the Marauder .25 (which I like a lot by the way). It was not point for me, as I mentioned before, to have a more powerful gun and cut down on the weight of the pellets.
This morning I call Pyramid Air, the Hatsan is now on its way back and I am exchanging it for a Sumatra 2500 500cc, I hope I will have better luck with that one.
Thanks everybody

[rsterne]

It may be the thickness of the Eun Jin pellets skirts, but they were really hard to push in with the bolt

It sound more like the oversize EunJin pellets may have been tight in the chamber in the Hatsan, which is likely even smaller than the magazine.... I have experienced the same thing, but it is the same single loaded, with or without the magazine.... EunJins are tight in most quarterbores....

Sorry you didn't like the Hatsan, better luck with the Sumatra.... Chance are it will fit the EunJins better, anyway....

Bob

[AlfredoM]

Thanks Bob,
but how do you feed a pellet manually in so small space? For what I know there are no single trays for the Hatsan. Anyway the 43.2 grains is actually longer than the space were the magazine goes in the BT65.

Now I will have to try to sell the LDC, unless it fits the Sumatra.

[rsterne]

You can tip the EunJin Points into place in the breech.... not easy, but it can be done.... A single shot tray would help a lot.... Maybe I'll have to make one....

Bob

[AlfredoM]

Bob,
considering that my job is guarding the koi pond against raccoons attacks, loading a single pellet in that gun in the dark is not something I want to do in the case of a fast follow up.
Sometime they show up in groups of 3 or 4. The last I had around was a big mama with 6 almost adult offspring.

[rsterne]

I wasn't suggesting it was a practical solution for your Racoon problem.... If the 43 gr. EunJin is the only pellet you can use, then the Hatsan is not the gun for you.... No longer an issue, right?....

Bob

[AlfredoM]

I did not mean to be rude, just I could not see how to load a pellet that is almost 1/16" longer in a half inch space with my fingers.

[Daryl]

An aluminum tray with grooved top surface for the pellet and the bolt nose, held by a rare earth magnet set into it's base, makes for an easier alternative - but still not for quick loading, by any means.  The magazine feed is the way to go. Too bad they couldn't have made it longer, ie; sticking out the side a bit for 10 rounds instead of 9.
since this thread has run it's course, I might add that I'm actually looking forward to making "the deal" with Gord for his Black BT65 RB .25 now.

[rsterne]

I assume the 9 shot .25 cal mag is the same diameter as the 10 shot .22 cal mag so that the breech doesn't need to change....

Bob