.177 vs. .22 for hunting

[SpringerForever]

My preference would be .22.

More energy left on target instead of passing thru to who knows where.

Penetration? Seriously? Not an issue unless the game in question is armored up (I made a funny). But then 3 of my rifles are super magnums & the other one is a magnum.

But then again, folks with rifles restricted to 12 FPE seem to do just fine on up to rabbit size game. There's a YT video done by an Englishman that actually shows penetration testing on skinned rabbit heads with various pellets. And H&N's pellet table lists two pellets across 3 calibers - .177, .22 & .25 - that are rated to take out small predators ("... fox, racoon[sic], armadillo, marten ...") at only 18.5 FPE. I've also read a post with pics that showed a brace of rabbits a New Zealander took with a sub 7 FPE .177 rifle.

[Motorhead]

My preference would be .22.

More energy left on target instead of passing thru to who knows where.

Penetration? Seriously? Not an issue unless the game in question is armored up (I made a funny). But then 3 of my rifles are super magnums & the other one is a magnum.

But then again, folks with rifles restricted to 12 FPE seem to do just fine on up to rabbit size game. There's a YT video done by an Englishman that actually shows penetration testing on skinned rabbit heads with various pellets. And H&N's pellet table lists two pellets across 3 calibers - .177, .22 & .25 - that are rated to take out small predators ("... fox, racoon[sic], armadillo, marten ...") at only 18.5 FPE. I've also read a post with pics that showed a brace of rabbits a New Zealander took with a sub 7 FPE .177 rifle.

Rabbits are VERY THIN SKIN and really fragile critters, kickin em with a boot can kill em.  Not a very good weighting stick for estimating power of an AG IMO

[Zelph]

I believe it depends on the power of the air rifle in use.

The Evanix Blizzard I use for varmints is a .22. Would not try the same distances or animals with the model 34 in .22 as it doesn't have the oomph in that caliber. Would do so with a 350 magnum.

Beaver, raccoons and coyotes with the Blizzard are all viable with the coyotes closer in. Head shots of raccoons and beaver to about 70 yards. If I were limited to the model 34 in .177 the limit for me would be around 30 yards.

My goal is quick, clean kills and most of the shooting is pest animal elimination.

Last evening..., two raccoons and one coyote all on the same prairie pothole. Beavers because they are decimating a newly growing tree stand on a neighbors farm and the coyote because he happened by while I was waiting for the beavers to show themselves. Head shots on all of them. In the meantime I was nailing blackbirds at 40-60 yards on the other side of the water as they would come and land on the cattails. All with the .22 which is overkill for the blackbirds, but you shoot what you have.

[cwlongshot]

.22

DITTO

100% agreement 

[Not The Brightest Bulb]

But then again, folks with rifles restricted to 12 FPE seem to do just fine on up to rabbit size game. There's a YT video done by an Englishman that actually shows penetration testing on skinned rabbit heads with various pellets. And H&N's pellet table lists two pellets across 3 calibers - .177, .22 & .25 - that are rated to take out small predators ("... fox, racoon[sic], armadillo, marten ...") at only 18.5 FPE. I've also read a post with pics that showed a brace of rabbits a New Zealander took with a sub 7 FPE .177 rifle.

Don't have a clue about 22 (little rhyming) I'm gonna assume they are good at what they do, but I do know .177 will definitely drop small varmints.

[Bullit]

Either is fine for small game.  Knowing the fpe at different ranges is most important to understanding the maximum range to shoot.   You accuracy determines your limit, of course.
In those guns you posted, you won't find an appreciable difference in fpe between the 2 calibers, since they use the same powerplant, no matter the caliber.   The .22 punches a bigger hole, but the .177 will travel deeper, doing more internal damage to more areas.   In the 12-14fpe guns, the .177 is capable and accurate.

[nced]

Out of the same gun (ex. RWS 34, HW50S, etc.) which caliber would you prefer for hunting?

IMHO, .177 cal is the best for ME with my R9 power level springers. The .20/.22 does "hit harder than the .177", however it didn't seem that caliber mattered much if the vitals weren't perforated! LOL, single lung a squirrel with either .177, .20 or .22 and you're in for a long chase! Concerning "hits harder"......after seeing more than one tree squirrel run quite a few feet after being double lunged with a 100fpe+ .22 rimfire bullet, I really don't put much value in the "hard hitting" 30fpe PCP!  I've found that as long as the vitals are perforated it doesn't make much difference if the hole is .177, .20, or .22 cal, and IF the max shootin' distance is kept to about 35 yards to minimize range estimation errors.
I did tune my .20 R9 to shoot Beeman FTSs at 825fps (using a stiff tune and a home turned oring sealed piston cap) and at that power level the trajectory was acceptably flat, however the gun was a pretty harsh shooter at that power level and a bit too hold sensitive for ME. Yep, my "mild mannered" .177 tune would shoot flatter than my high stress .20 tune and a tree squirrel double lunged with either one didn't know the difference.

Years ago there was a poster stating that shooting a squirrel with a .20 Crow Magnum hollow point pellet at 14fpe plus would increase the killzone size 50%. As a test I tuned my .20 R9 very stiffly (using an oring sealed piston cap) to shoot the 12.5 grain .20 CM pellet at almost 18fpe (800fps) and actually HUNTED tree squirrels with it for a whole week. The result......a piddly 50% hit to retrieve ratio with the 18fpe CM setup compared to 90%+ ratio (wish I was better in the woods) when I was using .177 CPLs at 14.5 fpe! I feel that the main problem was that the .20 CM pellet didn't group very well past 25 yards from my R9 so most hits were "off the mark". LOL...I can reliably take a head shot on a squirrel at 40 yards with a 13fpe .177 CPL so there was no point of using those .20 cal "wobbly ducks". I do realize that there are accurate .20 and .22 cal domes, however I was using the CMs to test the "50% kz expansion theory".

ALMOST all of the .20 CM pellet shots were 30+ yards to test the "50% larger effective killzone THEORY", and I can verify that a .20 "trick pellet" at 14fpe (or even 18fpe) WON'T increase the killzone enough to compensate for the inaccuracy! LOL.....I remember rib shooting a 40 yard squirrel on a tree limb with the .20 CM pellet and with the THWOCK of the pellet literally knocked the squirrel from the limb to the ground. When I got to the place where the squirrel fell I couldn't find it, but then I noticed a hole in the base of the tree that I ASSUME the wounded squirrel went into.

In another instance..........When hunting squirrels with my brother I was using a .177 R10 and my brother was using his .22 rimfire and high velocity short hollowpoint bullets (over 60 fpe). We were stalking down a path in the WV woods when a squirrel popped up it's head in the path just 20 yards away. My brother took the shot and the squirrel jumped straight up in the air a couple feet and made a mad dash to a tree 20 yards away. Thinking my brother missed a 20 yard offhand shot I joked "HarDeHarHar....next time chuck a rock". Well, the squirrel did stop at the base of the tree and was dead with a PERFECT double lung hit and an exit hole big enough to poke a finger through. When we were dressing the squirrels taken that day we found that the "scampering squirrel" was indeed perfectly double lunged and the .22 hollow point bullet literally removed the top half of the heart before exiting! 

Some one shot .177 R9 kill pics..........

Head shot, broke spine at base of skull.


Head shot, back of head as 'coon was up a tree after wrecking a bird feeder.


One head shot and one double lunged.


What became of the squirrels.

Anywhoo......after that little week long squirrel hunt I sold both the .20 barrel and a chopped & choked .22 barrel that was on my R9s and reverted back to the .177 "skinny pellet" that I used years before. Personally, at springer power levels I don't put much stock in the "shock value" of a pellet preferring a pellet THROUGH the vitals, and preferably FULL PENETRATION so I get two holes with one shot! 

[Bullit]

X2 on the "shock value"...
I think it's a poorly/uninformed used term, with subsonic projectiles.   It's blunt force, and the difference in diameters in a millisecond doesn't make much difference...  8fpe is 8fpe is 8fpe.
Accurate Flight, Penetration and Internal damage to more areas is a trump IMO.

[gnef]

I have been using .177 personally for squirrels of all sizes. Yes, shot placement is important, and when I've been off, I have to do a followup shot.

I use .177 for many reasons - cost of ammo, limited range, ammo availability and diversity. It also forces me to become a better shot. It is quite rewarding doing a clean kill with .177, at least for me.

I can only shoot in limited ranges in the backyard, out to only around 35 yards, and I have been able to do clean kills at that range with my .177 Disco. I also set up an indoor 30ft range in the basement, and will shoot hundreds of rounds in a session. The cost of .177 makes that easier to do.

I do plan on getting a Marauder in the future, also .177 for the same reasons as stated above, as well as shot count if I tune the Marauder well.

If I ever need to shoot anything larger than a squirrel though, then I will consider the larger calibers, but squirrels are my limit right now, so I am very happy with .177.

[SpringerForever]

My preference would be .22.

More energy left on target instead of passing thru to who knows where.

Penetration? Seriously? Not an issue unless the game in question is armored up (I made a funny). But then 3 of my rifles are super magnums & the other one is a magnum.

But then again, folks with rifles restricted to 12 FPE seem to do just fine on up to rabbit size game. There's a YT video done by an Englishman that actually shows penetration testing on skinned rabbit heads with various pellets. And H&N's pellet table lists two pellets across 3 calibers - .177, .22 & .25 - that are rated to take out small predators ("... fox, racoon[sic], armadillo, marten ...") at only 18.5 FPE. I've also read a post with pics that showed a brace of rabbits a New Zealander took with a sub 7 FPE .177 rifle.

Rabbits are VERY THIN SKIN and really fragile critters, kickin em with a boot can kill em.  Not a very good weighting stick for estimating power of an AG IMO

Yeah, after I posted it I looked up the recommended FPE range for rabbits & it was 4-6 FPE so 7 FPE was more than adequate.

[GunnerAl]

You need to look at the velocity and/or the power level of the rifle (and before you buy it too). I personally think that for air rifles rated up to 1000fps, give or take, .177 is a good choice, not necessarily better but a "good" choice. First, you have to "not" exceed that 1120fps barrier, otherwise known as the sound barrier, but for more reasons than just that tiny pellet having to transcend that barrier. You also have to consider a physical limitation on the internals of the rifle.. At 1250fps and beyond , a .177 calibre just puts too much mechanical stress on all but the sturdiest built airguns during the firing cycle, especially on the spring and piston. On average you have to be very careful on your pellet choice and have to be a muscle bound monster to cock them all day. I have a couple of these powerful .177's and it doesn't take a professor to notice that that calibre appears to reach its all-round limits well before this power level. Using heavier pellets to try to compensate is not always a good idea either, instead, it may actually contribute to some of the mechanical stresses, resulting in breakages and internal damage. The .177 also begins to reveal mechanical inefficiency at near the same point that the .22 begins to strut its stuff, during this transonic velocity bracket. This appears to be where the heavier, larger .22 pellets really start coming on strong and have a bunch of advantages over .177, mechanically and ballistically. At similar velocities to the .177 cal pellet (eg 900 - 1000fps), .22's will have similar trajectories and carry a whole lot more energy at those longer ranges and they are more efficient to shoot, from the rifles point of view. That makes it a better choice for hunting at these higher end velocities...

Up to or under the 1000fps mark though, I think it may be very hard to beat the .177 though and if you're ever stuck deciding, go for the .177 by default, unless you are a .22 addict, as this is almost exclusively the .177 calibre domain. I'd say that in all but the energy retention domain, the .177 might beat the .22 hands down up to around the 1000fps mark. So many pellets and so many brands and models to choose from. You will certainly be able to find yourself a good .177 somewhere in the mix...

Me, I have a mixture of .177's, .22's and .25's and there are overlaps in velocity and power amongst them,, some extreme. Each calibre has it uses, weakness and strong points... Get a calibre which suits the rifles power. That's the priority. Then choose according to your wants/needs - (the end use). Choose by calibre vs power, not velocity alone..!!

In all honesty though, as far as enrgy transferrence goes, first you have to hit the target. Smaller animals may not really notice the difference between the two calibres but I bet larger quarry will. Here, the .22, or maybe even a .25 will be a far better choice, with the right velocity, of course...

[phantomshtter]

For hunting it's .22 for me.  Hunting raccoon with .177 isn't bringing enough gun for the job IMO.

[nunofrancisco]

.

[Random Plinker]

I briefly used a XS25 in 22 for squirrel and rabbit, but found my 177 B26 to be as effective.  The XS25 in 22 had one or two more fpe, but I agree its all about shot placement.  I was sold on the 22 after a few perfect shots gave spectacular results.  But a few imperfect shots later I found little difference between 22 and 177.  My best instant, humane squirrel kill was with a pointed 177 pellet at ~20 yards.  Nailed it to the tree.  Nothing fancy, no expanding pellets, just a good shot through the head

I definitely agree squirrels tend to be more finicky with respect to where they are shot.  I've found its the rare rabbit that doesn't "drop right there" after any respectable shot.  Wound a squirrel with any caliber though, and the chase is on!

[VAFarmer]

Id say go with .22 if you are using pcp and have power adjustment.  turn power up to where trajectory is flatter and let it fly.

I have always gone with .22 in the past .

In wanting to keep my pellet shooting cost effective.........I have started looking more at .177.

I have just purchased a .177 (12-14ftlb range) spring gun for my non-co2 fall hunting supply, and have been using a Webley Alecto Ultra in .177 with great success out to 30 yds.

I have come to believe that both have advantages and disadvantages, but both can be good hunters on stuff up to raccoon sized animal.

The .177 needs shot placement to be a little more precise.
IMO the biggest thing you need to be able to with .177 AND .22 is practice in a live scenario.   Nothing elaborate.   
Put a target in a tree.   Shoot in the backyard from a stand if you shoot from above.  Shoot standing, kneeling and prone.   when you can repeatedly hit the red dot, you are golden.
I use targets that I print from the intenet, that are actual animal photos.   Helps me develop  my "shot-placement skills"  for scenarios like quartering shots, hard angles, etc.

One thing I have found MORE important with .177 also is pellet BC.   A good~ 800 fps shot with a 7.5 grain or higher pellet will retain more energy at 40 yds than a pellet with a lower bc.
Chairgun lists several pellets BC, and I always test my guns with the highest bc pellets to start with.   The best groupers that hold 1/2 to 3/4 inch at range are next.  Then best bc again, then price.

Lately in .177 I have settled with Crosman pointeds.   They have a very good bc.  Right on the borderline of wieght at 7.4 grains, but they give 620+ fps out of the Alecto......which translates into good rabbit hunting power to 30 yds.   They are also very affordable.  If they werent, Id go with JSB 8.4s.
Big price difference, but both shoot very accurately, and because of good BC, both retain energy well.

with the smaller projectiles, the ability of the pellet to fly accurately and retain energy is more important than with .22.....not that its NOT important with .22  but just that there is a little more forgiveness with .22
Theres no replacement for displacement.

God bless,

Farmer

[Not The Brightest Bulb]

Lately in .177 I have settled with Crosman pointeds.   They have a very good bc.  Right on the borderline of wieght at 7.4 grains, but they give 620+ fps out of the Alecto......which translates into good rabbit hunting power to 30 yds.   They are also very affordable.  If they werent, Id go with JSB 8.4s.

Wow you have been looking over my shoulder, I just got my 1st box of Crosman pointeds 7.4 grain pellets for 14.86. It was a choice of that or the JSB 8.4's. 

[yoshi800]

Split the difference - get a .20 !

[Petey]

http://varmintair.typepad.com/varmintairs_blog/fwb-300s-sporter/