Rapid onset B3 addiction

[Tinknocker1]

i just book marked rapid onset B-3 addiction   

a wealth of info you guys are doing some great things with the B-3'S not to mention the other guns your throwing in the mix 

[stalwart]

I looked into the Krytox... pricey is an understatement (2oz costs exactly as much as a new B3). Ed, I believe you are on the right track... it's amazing stuff. Please tell me you can use just a tiny bit of it? I appreciate the homework, man. Your timing here was immaculate.

Andy, I'll do my best to keep this place fun enough to attract enough of the kind of info Ed and Slavia brought in. The expertise shared here, freely, is invaluable to me... I'll keep the brews cold, and the wood stove warm! Best I can do at this point... 

Mike sent a bulk cap, and I am getting a fill station with a 9' coiled hose. I won't need this rig portable until barrel testing is done, but will be getting a 9oz tank or 2 soon. As I need gas for the tether, and liquid for the little tanks, I'm trying to design a cradle for the large (welding shield) tanks I already own, that will allow me to invert one easily to bulk fill. I'm thinking that as I need a shooting bench, I am going to try to integrate it with the cradle to use the weight to advantage. Progress will depend on the permission of my old bones, but it will eventually happen.

This is turning into a real long-term thing... and, hanging with you guys will keep it interesting and fun.


I just talked to my barrel guy, and tried to talk him out of the B3 (again), and into a MM QB78. He's a Bench Rest fan, and I thought it was the right thing to do. He wants to get to shooting, soon... but, he also wants one of my custom rigs... so, he is going to get both. There will be some good, independent data on MGs here soon. I'm having so much fun, and learning so much here... gotta thank GTA. Again.


Just finished up barrel guy's stock. I really like the Duplicolor stuff, varying the pressure and thinner ratio gives a lot of control over the texture. This texture is grippy enough to make a light hold easy, yet doesn't trap crud.

[stalwart]

Just finished cutting the first QB/MG barrel. 21", 15.5mm dia.

I will be floating this one for accuracy (no barrel band), so it's set up with a very tight fit to the breech, and will get a removable delrin pellet tray (will follow the bolt out the back) so the mount screw can be reached with the barrel in. I'll insure a good seal at the breech with a fine coat of epoxy.

The B3 stroker is at the point where I want to find a better trigger group. Any suggestions? I can mount up just about anything, and would love to put a really nice trigger in at least 1 of these.


  I just ordered a MM QB79. Ordered a 9oz tank for it, and should have the refill set up ready by the time it comes. I have some odd plans for this one...

[nced]

"I looked into the Krytox... pricey is an understatement (2oz costs exactly as much as a new B3). Ed, I believe you are on the right track... it's amazing stuff. Please tell me you can use just a tiny bit of it? I appreciate the homework, man. Your timing here was immaculate."
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Doesn't take much, especially with a gun like the B3 that has a separate sliding compression chamber with piston inside. All you NEED to do with the "sliding compression chamber guns" is to thoroughly degrease the compression tube and piston with brake cleaner (remove the seal first), then install the piston seal and smear a thin film of GPL205 on the compression tube, piston, and piston seal sides. If you prefer you can lube all other sliding surfaces with the traditional less costly "tar" and molly paste.

For my R9 I opted to strip ALL the metal components with brake cleaner and relube with only the Krytox grease. After lubing all the sliding R9 surfaces (including spring and guides) using a 1/2 oz tube of Krytox I still had this much left over.........

I later bought a 2oz tube on Ebay for $38 with free shipping and I'll have enough of the stuff for completely lubing both my HW77 and R9 several times if needed..........

I can't find it at this price any longer but Ebay has been the best source for me.

[stalwart]

Thanks, Ed. Everything I've read on this backs up what you said... and, as I don't need it immediately, I'll save what I can shopping around.

My R10 will be getting some well deserved TLC, and Krytox. What are the differences between it and your R9s?

The B3s are now giving me a bunch of homework. I have to find the specs of similar rifles, to learn the relationship I'll need to know between piston weight, ram strength, and port size. I'm not sure how to go about all this. I also need to find a good trigger (46?), there are real limits to the stockers.

I'm open to all suggestions, and would appreciate any clues.

[nced]

"My R10 will be getting some well deserved TLC, and Krytox. What are the differences between it and your R9s?"
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The R10 came considerably earlier than the R9 and it was constructed similar to the R1 but smaller. The R10 had a solid steel machined threaded end plug that was screwed into the receiver tube, and there was a separate scope rail screwed onto the receiver. Here's a pic of the R10 end plug..........



In this pic you can see the tapped holes and receiver knockout for attaching the scope base..........


Here's a pic of an old R10 scope rail that was damaged by a Beeman scope mount due to the stop pin not being extended enough, plus the dovetail was later deformed a bit by using a RWS "C" mount with the steel "clamping lugs".................

Notice that the scope rail screws were short flat head screws and the rear of the piston was slotted for clearance with the protruding screw ends.

The R9 was designed to use an end plug that was retained by the trigger mounting dowels, four separate "locking plugs", and the safety button as this pic shows........




The internals of both guns are similar and I did interchange components between my R10 and R9 when I still had a complete R10. The R10 is currently "parted out" however I have considered "reconstructing" it in the future since I still have the R10 receiver with end plug that's shown in these posted pics.




The B3s are now giving me a bunch of homework. I have to find the specs of similar rifles, to learn the relationship I'll need to know between piston weight, ram strength, and port size. I'm not sure how to go about all this. I also need to find a good trigger (46?), there are real limits to the stockers.
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Well.....the B3 trigger is a very basic "direct linkage" type like this..........

I was able to improve the trigger some by smoothing the sear surfaces and lighten the trigger pull by slightly kinking the spring as shown in the pic. Perhaps some are more knowledgeable with B3 trigger tweaks but a Rekord trigger it will NEVER be! 

If you look at this pic you'll see that the factory spring guide is a practically useless sloppy fitting crooked affair. I took the time to lathe turn a fitted guide for my B3 as shown in the pics.




 

[stalwart]

I've pulled a lot of really good triggers (been doing my own for over 3 decades... trained by a Master), and I can honestly say that the Rekord is as close to a direct brain/sear interface as any stock trigger I have ever seen. I've been shooting that R10 for 25 years, and it remains the only gun in my collection that has never needed at least a good stoning. I racked my brain for quite a while to come up with some kind of sear that could be attached to the rams, to use a Rekord... it's been said it can't be done. I'm starting to believe that.

I'm looking into the 46 ( http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/XISICO_XS46U.html ), I understand they can be worked a bit, and it is able to safely hold power that (on paper only) the B3s can reach at least 80% of. If I can find the parts, I could simply graft the group on... if not just reconfigure the relationship of the pins. I have to do something... The stroker balks at holding only once in a while... but just once is out of tolerances. Period. I spent a lifetime working with devices that can "follow you home", and I'll be darn if I'm going to let a POS $60 BB gun take the first chunk out of these hands.

Ed, your presence here is re-assuring to say the least. I can't prove it, but I'll bet lunch I'm not the only one emboldened by the info you share.

[nced]

I've pulled a lot of really good triggers (been doing my own for over 3 decades... trained by a Master), and I can honestly say that the Rekord is as close to a direct brain/sear interface as any stock trigger I have ever seen. I've been shooting that R10 for 25 years, and it remains the only gun in my collection that has never needed at least a good stoning. I racked my brain for quite a while to come up with some kind of sear that could be attached to the rams, to use a Rekord... it's been said it can't be done. I'm starting to believe that.

I'm looking into the 46 ( http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/XISICO_XS46U.html ), I understand they can be worked a bit, and it is able to safely hold power that (on paper only) the B3s can reach at least 80% of. If I can find the parts, I could simply graft the group on... if not just reconfigure the relationship of the pins. I have to do something... The stroker balks at holding only once in a while... but just once is out of tolerances. Period. I spent a lifetime working with devices that can "follow you home", and I'll be darn if I'm going to let a POS $60 BB gun take the first chunk out of these hands.

Ed, your presence here is re-assuring to say the least. I can't prove it, but I'll bet lunch I'm not the only one emboldened by the info you share.

By the way, I forgot to mention, I also lathe turned some closer fitting "trigger group pins" and polished them for the crude trigger. The factory pins almost seemed like cut off wire that didn't fit the holes in the frame very well.

[stalwart]

Glad you mentioned that. No one should even attempt to hod rod a B3 before getting proper alignment. You are right... my pins could all have been cut from metric baling wire. Some show ends that have been cut with dykes.

I have coffee cans of old drill bits I save so I can make pins from the shanks. You can't hammer an end to cause interference (unless you heat it, defeating the heat treating, and therefore the purpose), but I just hold them with tape for assembly. They hold tight tolerances.

Custom fitting pins takes time, but I'll bet your guns took real advantage of them. I like the way these guns respond to the basics, if done well.


Grabbed a pic of the stroker's guide pin. It didn't take long to mangle it...lol.

[stalwart]

MM came through again. I have some odd plans for this, but after getting it I'm in no hurry to tear it down. I'm going to shoot it for a while as is.

He did a nice job detailing it, and although I'll be adjusting the creep out of the trigger there is no real need to do anything else to enjoy it. The trigger is not too bad, and is not only ok for plinking, but is just about perfect for training or strenuous hunting. I can hand this to novices without worry.

I'm impressed... and quite happy. Not many devices come in here without being at least torn down for inspection. It's nice knowing Mike has already been inside, and my only job is to have some fun.

Roughly, how many shots can I expect from this 9oz tank? I have to get my spare 50# tank filled, and have realized it may supply me for a very long time. This rig will let me shoot without supply concerns, that always raises the chuckle factor.

[stalwart]

Until MM gives me a price on the 46U trigger group (and if I can afford it), I'm trying to wear the 79 out. Not gonna happen...lol. It is getting sweeter with age.

I lost count of my shots, and lent it out... so I still have no idea how many I'll get out of the 9oz tank. I do know this: If you have to buy by the tankful, you'll love the 9oz setup. If you can refill... it's silly how oversize that tank is.

My review: Love it. At about 60 rounds, the T-port seal blew out. The port is offset, just like my 2078, and I simply did as Mike suggested... slotted the mount hole, and turned a nice delrin seal. Problem solved.

The barrel is taking on lead, and getting better and better. I plan to give it a micro groove when the 2078 is finished, but it's more than accurate enough to keep a garden pest free, so there is no hurry. Tin cans, dimes, and larger bugs don't have a prayer. I love precision plinking... and this gun is becoming beloved.

My review of Mikes work: I'm just glad I got this before he raised the price. I don't let other guys build my toys very often... and I'm glad I did here. It is done well enough that I simply dialed out most of the creep, and started shooting. As I was trained (long ago) to do trigger jobs by a Master who built race guns for the Army Match teams, I usually cannot resist at least a little stone work. There are now 2 triggers in the house that I have not needed (can't justify?) to touch: The Rekord in my bottom b***h (R10), and this one. Kudos, Mike... it's both safe, and sweet enough for it's current mission. I'm pulling off some nice groups, and can still hand it to anyone without worry.

I've been busy here, I'll post pics soon of the 2078 progress... and I'm building an unusual pistol. The B3s are still cooking, just on a simmer.

Still having too much fun.

[stalwart]

Roughed in. A 79 stock set up to fit my 2078, and fit like a glove. Still a long way to go, but the shape is there. Got a little artsy fartsy on it, because... why not?

 


New pic: Bench rest on a budget.

[stalwart]

Zeroed in the 79 @10M... with the new rest. 5 CPHP per attempt, single hole was 2nd attempt.

I'm developing a school girl crush on this ugly little gun.

New pic: More of the same. 

[stalwart]

 

Mike just gave me a very reasonable price on a 46U trigger group for the B3s. It won't be coming until the first (payday), but it's coming!

I have a few things to finish by then... but, this will be a B3 thread again, soon.

In the meantime... my Crosman/Spyder/Marlin hybrid project is on a front burner. My first attempt at an integrated breech/barrel:


New pic: This morning's groups. The 79 is settling in. I ordered a 4x16 CP scope, so I can move out to 20M and still see well. The 4x's hairs cover the dots completely at that range.


Another tidbit:

Had this left over after cutting 2 pistol barrels, and figured I'd try making something I could carry to check different pellets for fit to these guns.

Cut a leade and a crown, and free-styled a shape that is comfy in a pocket, and easy to tell the ends apart. Anytime I'm around pellets I haven't tried yet, I'll push a couple through.

Hoping this saves me cash, and cuts down on the typical "useless" pellet pile. http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=48729.new#new