ND 10, 20, 30 wt--does it really matter which one?

[airgunaut]

The owner's manual for the 880 says to lube with 10, 20, or 30 wt ND oil. I still have not seen 20 wt sold in stores and have used both the 10 and the 30 wt oils (on separate occasions).

The owner's manual for the Model 25 specifies 20 wt ND. Would 10 or 30 wt be OK to substitute for the 20? I'm inclined to use 30 wt for all metal-to-metal or metal-to-plastic lubing just because it's thicker.

[Berserkeley Mike]

How about 30wt for Colorado summers and 10wt for winter?
Seriously, I can't imagine it matters, especially for o-rings.  If it flows it will help seal.

[Methuselah]

Been using 30W ND since 2015 on the 880's mostly because it also got used in my lawnmower.

The ounce or two container of crackerbarrel syrup I filled is still over half full from then. I dispense by dipping in a length of bare copper electrical wire.

[Blowpipe Sam]

I’m currently using Marvel Air Tool oil.  It’s approximately 20 wt. and it’s intended for use in high compression air tools.  I figure that’s a pretty good recommendation.  I use it in all my pumpers and my co2 gun’s.

[airgunaut]

I have an ancient bottle of Marvel Mystery Oil, which I use for lubing bicycle chains. It obviously contains other ingredients, based on the smell of it, which makes me think of solvent as a possible ingredient. The stuff is thinner than ND 30 wt oil.

I'll look up their air oil out of curiousity but will use either the (nonsmelly) 10 or 30 wt ND oil. At the very least those should not harm the Model 25, since the application is strictly for lubricating metal parts, NOT for sealing o-rings. I don't know if this gun even has any o-rings. Must look for a parts diagram and archive it for future reference.

I intend to use the 10 wt ND oil as bike chain lube when the MMO is gone. That application doesn't need solvent, either.

[threesuns]

I’m currently using Marvel Air Tool oil.  It’s approximately 20 wt. and it’s intended for use in high compression air tools…I use it in all my pumpers and my co2 gun’s.

20w is a common oil used in compressors and not stocked at most retailers, my last quart came from NAPA years ago.
I have used 30w since I keep it on hand for my small engine needs, and has been recommended by other manufactures not just Daisy.

[airgunaut]

I’m currently using Marvel Air Tool oil.  It’s approximately 20 wt. and it’s intended for use in high compression air tools…I use it in all my pumpers and my co2 gun’s.

20w is a common oil used in compressors and not stocked at most retailers, my last quart came from NAPA years ago.
I have used 30w since I keep it on hand for my small engine needs, and has been recommended by other manufactures not just Daisy.

I used the 30 wt ND oil today on the Model 25. It's thin enough I see no reason to use the 10 wt on any of the airguns. The 880 and Blue Streak have done fine with 30 wt as either lube or sealant. I also lube the P3's pivots/hinges with 30 wt.

[Mzq284]

There was a good explanation of 30w ND on here, last year maybe.  The guy had a lot of info, but to me the best reason is that oil with detergent has no surface tension and will creep away from where you put it and leave the area dry. ND doesn't do that, it tends to stay put. Seems reasonable to me

[mikeyb]

Detergent motor oil is designed to keep dirt/debris/wear particles IN SUSPENSION to be carried to an OIL FILTER for removal.

NON-Detergent motor oils will allow dirt/debris/wear particles to flocculate and settle out in a drain pan (or equivalent) since there is NO OIL FILTER.

Buna o-rings are completely compatible with detergent and non-detergent motor oils.

For most airgun applications where motor oil is recommended (NOT in springer high pressure area!) the detergent/non-detergent oil debate is moot. It really doesn't matter.

Oil "weight" may be a factor depending on rifle AND TEMPERATURE.

I remember my Crosmans 760/766 (1970's rabbit & squirrel hunting) would get really weak when temperatures dropped below 15F. I was using 30W which became too viscous at those temperatures and the rifle would either not pump or leak. Had to keep the rifle warm under my coat until needed.

The specifics really don't significantly affect rifle performance... use whatever you can get for cheap and/or whatever makes you happy :-)

[airgunaut]

Detergent motor oil is designed to keep dirt/debris/wear particles IN SUSPENSION to be carried to an OIL FILTER for removal.

NON-Detergent motor oils will allow dirt/debris/wear particles to flocculate and settle out in a drain pan (or equivalent) since there is NO OIL FILTER.

Buna o-rings are completely compatible with detergent and non-detergent motor oils.

For most airgun applications where motor oil is recommended (NOT in springer high pressure area!) the detergent/non-detergent oil debate is moot. It really doesn't matter.

Oil "weight" may be a factor depending on rifle AND TEMPERATURE.

I remember my Crosmans 760/766 (1970's rabbit & squirrel hunting) would get really weak when temperatures dropped below 15F. I was using 30W which became too viscous at those temperatures and the rifle would either not pump or leak. Had to keep the rifle warm under my coat until needed.

The specifics really don't significantly affect rifle performance... use whatever you can get for cheap and/or whatever makes you happy :-)

I don't shoot outdoors if it's below freezing, so 30 wt should be good for my range of tempertures.

Thanks for the note about BUNA o-rings. I used a smidge of pure silicone grease to install the new one in the P3's breech because a tech rep from Pyramyd Air recommended that, but I haven't seen any warnings against using ND oil for that purpose, either. I used silicone grease because it feels like it stays put well, and the goal in that use is to seal, not lube.

[Corneileous]

I just got off the phone with somebody at Daisy and they informed me that the oil we should be using on the 880 powerline should not only be 10, 20 or 30 weight engine oil non-detergent, but they also said that it had to be conventional motor oil as well and the person I talked to also said that we shouldn’t use Pellgun oil by Crosman by saying it’s not the same thing as what they say they require which, I’ve read other places online that said Crosman‘s pelgun oil is pretty much the same thing of what they require.

I’ve had my 880 now for about two years and from what I remember, I don’t think I’ve used any of my of that on it being that the reason why I bought it in the first place was because I also have a Crosman 760 pump master. Good rifle, I just bought the daisy because it has the rifled barrel in it, whereas the Crosman does not.

So should I take the person at Daisy‘s recommendation and at least not use the bottle of pellgun oil I have? Is it really gonna be that detrimental to the seals inside?

[Stretch67]

That's funny. 

Pellgun oil is 30-wt non-detergent conventional oil.


Daisy Inc:  "Use 30-wt non-detergent conventional oil."

Corneileous: "Pellgun oil?"

Daisy Inc.  "NO!  NOT THAT!" 

[Corneileous]

That's funny. 

Pellgun oil is 30-wt non-detergent conventional oil.


Daisy Inc:  "Use 30-wt non-detergent conventional oil."

Corneileous: "Pellgun oil?"

Daisy Inc.  "NO!  NOT THAT!"

I didn’t tell the lady that I had also seen where somebody- not sure if it was here or not but somewhere online that had posted the MSDS sheet for Pellgun oil that even showed it was the same thing as what they require but yeah, she said it’s not the same thing and not to use it…lol. I mean, I could understand if Daisy had their own line of air gun oil and pushing you to use their stuff instead of a competitors but that’s just it, they don’t so if it truly is the same thing then why not recommend it? Even the 10, 20 or 30 weight engine oil they recommend you use, they don’t even tell you a specific brand to use other than just as long as it’s non detergent.

For example, even Traxxas recommends you use mobil 1 full synthetic 5W-30 to lubricate the one-way bearing on the other side of the crankshaft on the little nitro motor where the electric starter goes on my Revo 3.3…lol.

[Nukall856]

Pellgun oil works just fine mighty fine infact. I use it on all the pumpers I have and on pivot points on break barrels and on bolt O-rings. . Ok. I once tried some ND 30wt oil from a blue bottle, I used it in a DP901. For around 20+ shots that AG was detonating or dieseling or causing a blast that was enough to drive the bolt open and a loud blast for a report. Idk what or why it was doing that but I haven't used that same oil again. Using Pellgun oil I haven't had any problems. .
 I have used 10w-30 and 5w-30 on the pump cups and piston orings back when I didn't know any better. It made the pumping action too slick to be of any good use. Pellgun oil does all that I need it to, I even use it to clean new or dirty barrels..

NVak

[Novagun]

Haven't seen pelgun oil here but plenty of Hoppes No 9 .
Is there much difference?

[Stretch67]

Haven't seen pelgun oil here but plenty of Hoppes No 9 .
Is there much difference?

Hoppe's No. 9 contains solvents that are reputed to damage o-rings and other rubber / polymer parts in airguns.  It's a good product to remove lead from the barrel, but in doing so, one should first remove the barrel from the action.

[Stretch67]

^^^  Sorry, that was referring to the bore cleaner, not Hoppe's lubricating oils.

[WD Feese]

I have used automotive transmission for years on co2 and pumpers and for lubing triggers and pellets. I have had zero failures. I have tried 30 wt and I think there was a little more compression per pump.  Just my experience.

[Methuselah]

Once upon a time, I researched pellgun oil and a contributor to a thread commented the MSDS sheet made the most likely match a high end (premium) hydraulic oil made or distributed by Royal Lubricants.

It is silicone based and safe on o-rings. It supposedly won't detonate in the compression chamber.

[Corneileous]

Once upon a time, I researched pellgun oil and a contributor to a thread commented the MSDS sheet made the most likely match a high end (premium) hydraulic oil made or distributed by Royal Lubricants.

It is silicone based and safe on o-rings. It supposedly won't detonate in the compression chamber.

So how long ago was this and do you know if the formula is changed since then? Because the bottle of pellgun oil I have sure smells a lot like regular ole ATF transmission fluid.