Backspin to extend range of round ball projectiles in air rifle barrels

[UnderPressure]

and the article clearly stated smoothbore lead balls cannot hit 4x4 board at 50 yards. and that still not convince you? this was solid data provided on lead balls. yet you still try citing BB data.

1. The early smoothbore could hit the 4' x 4' cardboard. Here is the exact quote:

Gary’s guns eventually were (and still are) very accurate, after he learned how to rifle barrels, but the early smoothbores I tested back in 1998 were barely able to keep their balls on a 4’x4′ cardboard box at 50 yards.

However, I do not believe those results are typical. (re: a blackpowder smoothbore shooting roundball can get under 3" groups at 50 yards)

2. The only smoothbore big bore airgun roundball accuracy review I could find was this one:





The reviewer wasn't disappointed in the accuracy.

[darkcharisma]

Russ,

you have to keep your standard of accuracy up. for me at 50 yards, it needs to be within 1 inch for any big bores from .30 cal and up. 3 inches at 100 yards is okay for me if the impacts are vertical. 

I will wait for better results.

btw, "barely" hit 4 foot by 4 foot cardboard boxes at 50 yards is a no no for me. however, if rifled barrels can do better, then that should be the focus.

[UnderPressure]

Russ,

you have to keep your standard of accuracy up. for me at 50 yards, it needs to be within 1 inch for any big bores from .30 cal and up. 3 inches at 100 yards is okay for me if the impacts are vertical. 

I will wait for better results.

https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2010/12/roundball-accuracy-in-smoothbores/

I’ve told you this before, but here’s a reminder that in the mid-19th century, there was a club in Ohio that attempted to see what type of accuracy they could get from roundball shooters in smoothbore guns. I don’t have a lot of data on their success, but I believe we’re talking about a couple of inches at 50 yards. Of course, the tightness of the patch would be a factor, the positioning and size of the sprue (the small flat spot left by the cut-off plate used to cast the ball) would matter as well as the homogeneity of the ball itself. That is, there should be no air voids or deposits of crystalized metal inside the lead ball.

The Sprue is that part of the roundball that is flat. You can see it very well in the picture below of the Air Venturi .495 roundball:

https://www.airgundepot.com/air-venturi-round-ball-50-cal-177-grains.html



(Also notice the rounball has a seam)

Casting produces the sprue, but swaging does not.

[UnderPressure]

Here is a video showing airforce Texan .357 getting 1/2" group accuracy with both 24" and 34" barrel at 45 yards:



This using Air Venturi .358 roundball (which if it is like the Air Venturi .357 roundball and other Air Venturi roundball I have see) will have a sprue (i.e. the flat spot on the roundball)

If roundball with sprue can get 1/2" group at 45 yards with rifling it seems plausible to me that smoothbore roundball without sprue or seam (created by using two pulls on a swage press according to Corbin website---> http://www.corbins.com/bsk-1.htm) should do better than 2" inch groups. This especially as an airgun would have much lower pressure than blackpowder. (The higher the pressure of the propellant gas the higher the chance to deform the ball.)

[darkcharisma]

the first article i disregard...still BB data.
the video on the Texan showed good results at 45 yards. I like that, but thats out of rifled barrels.

if you were to purchase a smooth bore vs a rifled bore barrel for that .357 caliber. what will be your choice based off data off the video? the barrels will cost $250 each. which one will you take?

the question above is an attempt to apply the data to an actual purchasing decision. i know my answer...and if i have more money, i may buy both, but i know $250 for smoothbore has a loss potential...

[UnderPressure]

the first article i disregard...still BB data.

Its not BB data. It is lead round ball from a blackpowder smoothbore.

But the main thing I wanted you to understand is the flat spot on the roundball.

That flat spot has to play havoc with the stability in flight. Think of how a knuckle ball (which doesn't rotate) is baseball in unstable because it is not perfectly round (and has seams)

[UnderPressure]

if you were to purchase a smooth bore vs a rifled bore barrel for that .357 caliber. what will be your choice based off data off the video? the barrels will cost $250 each. which one will you take?

the question above is an attempt to apply the data to an actual purchasing decision. i know my answer...and if i have more money, i may buy both, but i know $250 for smoothbore has a loss potential...

I would buy a rifled barrel (for .357) unless you want to use mostly as a shotgun.

[Nomadic Pirate]

I've shot a lot of Roundballs out of airguns  .357 .454 .457 .50 and never seen one with a flat spot and would not buy them either

[UnderPressure]

I've shot a lot of Roundballs out of airguns  .357 .454 .457 .50 and never seen one with a flat spot and would not buy them either

Yes, the swaged ones don't have the flat spot and this probably explains why the post linked below claims better accuracy from a blackpowder smooth bore  muzzle loader  (using roundball) at 50 yards than the reference in the Tom Gaylord article.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/smooth-bore-accuracy.617212/#post-7616316

A smooth rifle with rifle sights loaded with a very tight patched round ball (PRB) can be extremely accurate at 50 yards. The looser the PRB then the looser the groups.
I'm specifically referring to the .56 TC Renegades with a 26 inch barrel that can shoot 1-2 inch groups at 50 yards.

But with that noted, blackpowder is still going to have a much higher chance of deforming the round ball than airgun for at least two reasons:

1. Blackpowder is higher pressure than HPA.
2. Blackpowder muzzle loader may deform roundball when pushing down the barrel with ramrod (This particularly if roundball and patch were sized tight to bore for maximum accuracy.)

[Nomadic Pirate]

I would rather shoot shotshells out of a rifled barrel then Roundballs, AitBolts and bullets out of a smooth bore.

[UnderPressure]

I would rather shoot shotshells out of a rifled barrel then Roundballs, AitBolts and bullets out of a smooth bore.

I made a new thread for this to be discussed:

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=176112.msg155991298#msg155991298

[Nomadic Pirate]

I would rather shoot shotshells out of a rifled barrel then Roundballs, AitBolts and bullets out of a smooth bore.

I made a new thread for this to be discussed:

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=176112.msg155991298#msg155991298

I think you wasting your time, there's really no comparison,....best thing you can do I buy them both and start testing.