It’s cold but sunny - target testing for Crosman 108

[45flint]

I don’t think warm weather will ever come to Ohio but it was sunny in the backyard shooting range so I fine tuned my 108-Leupold scout scope set up.  Very pleased for an old man!  Below is 30 ft. At least 3 pellets in that group. If you look close you can seen the outline of the pellets, the tear-out kind of deceives how tight that group really was.  I really like the scout scope set up on this rifle cause I can thumb screw off the scope without messing up the sighting and use my open sights with the Mac-1 mount still attached. The 108’s sights are high enough to clear the MAC-1.  That’s the height of flexibility: scope, peep, and open sight within a minute.

[Habanero69er]

Nice group Steve.

I was born/raised in Massillon. I don't miss the weather. 32 yrs in Florida has been good. You can pretty much shoot year round down here. 

[Hare splittin]

Nice looking and a good shooter. Just have to appreciate all that the people put into it that made it.

Hope you enjoy it for a long time.

[Yng@hrt]

Very nice shooting Steve. The scope, peep & open sight option is indeed a plus.

[45flint]

Very nice shooting Steve. The scope, peep & open sight option is indeed a plus.

Not up to your standards but I’m working on it. 

[TerryM]

  I always wonder if the makers and users of some of these old guns, Crosman, Benjamin and Sheridan alike, knew the kind of accuracy they were capable of.  The quality of the ammo was mediocre to poor back then and most people didn't bother trying optical sights.

[45flint]

Very nice shooting Steve. The scope, peep & open sight option is indeed a plus.

Like your new Avatar, what a beautiful family!  I’m so old now that I could put my pic up but you would soon realize that a rifle butt is far better.

[Yng@hrt]

Thank you Steve. That was photo was taken 12 years ago. Dad is the only one that’s suffered the test of time. I always wondered why folks my age grow goatees & now I know…it’s to hide that bulldog chin. Works for me although every bit of it is white.

My wife is still drop dead gorgeous & still the girl of my dreams now & forever. We’ve been married 39 yrs this July & have known each other since I was 15 & she was 12. Our son’s are what all parents hope for. Amazing young men. Yes sir, I am truly blessed.

[45flint]

  I always wonder if the makers and users of some of these old guns, Crosman, Benjamin and Sheridan alike, knew the kind of accuracy they were capable of.  The quality of the ammo was mediocre to poor back then and most people didn't bother trying optical sights.

Interesting comparing the US traditions to England.  I acquired a 1924? BSA Standard Air Rifle last year and it is crazy accurate, but the English were about target shooting back then.  In the US it was much more about hunting and pest control, etc., a practical rifle. Probably why Crosman could get by with ghost rifling at times.  The Sheridans, though higher quality, were still marketed as hunting rifles.  There were exceptions the Crosman 108 was designed to be sanctioned by a newly formed shooting association. But even then they were clever enough to include a open sight for hunting.  The shooting association never really got off the ground though Crosman put a lot of marketing behind it.  In the end the US never really competed in target shooting, left that market to overseas makers.  So I don’t really think they ever thought these rifles could be this accurate.  Your example of our poorly designed pellets certainly speaks volumes to this.  They were marketing to where US shooters were at the time, few had scopes, they shot squirrels and tin cans?

[Yng@hrt]

  I always wonder if the makers and users of some of these old guns, Crosman, Benjamin and Sheridan alike, knew the kind of accuracy they were capable of.  The quality of the ammo was mediocre to poor back then and most people didn't bother trying optical sights.

Here's an ad that was posted a while back that play's right into what you're saying; lower right hand corner of the ad..."Photograph of 10 shot group showing unusual accuracy at 40 feet".

I guess if you take enough shots your bound to create a ragged hole. So one would assume...no, they did not know how accurate these guns were/are.

[RBQChicken]

Probably why Crosman could get by with ghost rifling at times.

What is ghost rifling?

[45flint]

Probably why Crosman could get by with ghost rifling at times.

What is ghost rifling?

Ghost rifling is a term used by Crosman collectors, especially of 101s and 102s.  Rifling could be extremely shallow or nonexistent?  Seems to be no pattern, just inconstant at times, but if you buy a Crosman always good to look down the barrel.  They probably were more consistent in later years.  Not that it was ever other one, but it’s happened.

[45flint]

  I always wonder if the makers and users of some of these old guns, Crosman, Benjamin and Sheridan alike, knew the kind of accuracy they were capable of.  The quality of the ammo was mediocre to poor back then and most people didn't bother trying optical sights.

Here's an ad that was posted a while back that play's right into what you're saying; lower right hand corner of the ad..."Photograph of 10 shot group showing unusual accuracy at 40 feet".

I guess if you take enough shots your bound to create a ragged hole. So one would assume...no, they did not know how accurate these guns were/are.

But look at the slugy looking pellet?  Who puts 10 shots in a group sure you’ll get a ragged hole, just good marketing.

[Yng@hrt]

Yup. Another reason for plinking accuracy.

I've often wonder what the end result would be if slightly deeper riflings were used. It boggles my mind how pellets manage to bit with them as shallow as they are.

[45flint]

Yup. Another reason for plinking accuracy.

I've often wonder what the end result would be if slightly deeper riflings were used. It boggles my mind how pellets manage to bit with them as shallow as they are.

From Tom Gaylord:

“Airguns are perfect for microgrooves, because they also offer less resistance when the pellet is engraved by the rifling and help seal the bore better because there is less depth and width to seal. The simplest kind of microgroove rifling is just shallower and thinner lands of the land-and-groove type. Twelve lands are common, but sometimes six are used, especially in .22 caliber. Where normal rifling lands are 0.005″ high, microgrooves might only be 0.0015″ high.”

[mentolio]

Looked closely at the add Yng@hrt posted: were the "Bantam .20s" really that bad for accuracy? The old "ash-cans," those I can see being absolute junk, having handled some. But the Bantams look kinda similar to what I'm shooting now (current 14.3 Benjis). Maybe the Bantams weren't all that bad? Anyone have some/shot some? What do you think?

I keep reading about "ghost rifling." Man, I must be really lucky. None of my vintage guns (small collection) have any accuracy issues. It's for this reason more of them keep finding their way into my grubby little mitts! In my albeit limited experience on this subject, I think new gun accuracy is a &^^&-shoot, and vintage gun accuracy (so far) has been a no-brainer. Maybe I have lower standards, as I typically don't shoot past 30 yards (most of my target/hunting work is at 15 to 20-ish)?