Crosman 600 Trigger Mod



Author Topic: Crosman 600 Trigger Mod  (Read 1411 times))

Offline WyoMan

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Crosman 600 Trigger Mod
« on: July 05, 2017, 12:27:12 AM »
Sometimes I'll save small springs... especially from pens. But I never thought I'd use one in a Crosman 600...




Shown with the OEM trigger spring:


Clipped a few coils and installed:


Loaded up the gun:


Then emptied the mag in less than a minute:


A lighter trigger pull makes a huge difference in pistols for me, so I'm buying another pen to change out the other 600  :D

this was one of the Crosman 600s that were restored in this series:
Part1:  http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=121809.0
Part2:  http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=121810.0
Part3:  http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=121811.0

Wyo

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Offline Hare splittin

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Re: Crosman 600 Trigger Mod
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2017, 12:57:55 AM »
Nice shooting.

I understand these can shoot full auto sometimes.  Does the lighter spring ever give you that feel?
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Offline WyoMan

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Re: Crosman 600 Trigger Mod
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2017, 03:04:42 PM »
Hi Bill, thanks for that... the lighter pull really helps.
To answer the question requires a little background info... hope you can bear thru this:



Look at the three circles in the above picture. They show the key parts of the lock for semi-auto action.
In the white circle, the pawl has been rotated forward by the hammer travel. This, in turn, pulls the trigger link off of the trigger sear (pink circle).
With the link and the trigger sear uncoupled, the hammer sear and trigger sear are free to latch (aqua circle) when the blowback occurs... otherwise, you'd have full-auto. The 600 can be made full-auto by removing the 'dog' on the pawl that pulls up on the trigger link (white circle again)... I've never tried it (too chicken  :D). It can also go full-auto due to a malfunctioning mechanism...If the pawls gets broken, or if there's excessive wear to prevent the sear latch (aqua circle)

So getting back to the question, the trigger spring operates independently from the semi-auto components so there's no effect -

Wyo
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Offline Hare splittin

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Re: Crosman 600 Trigger Mod
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2017, 01:22:52 AM »
Thanks for the explanation and diagram. Seems straight forward now that you lay it out, but doesn't it always.

Are those springs hard to come by?
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Offline BillyBob84

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Re: Crosman 600 Trigger Mod
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2017, 07:59:01 AM »
That is an amazing gun. You must take such good care of it.
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Offline WyoMan

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Re: Crosman 600 Trigger Mod
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2017, 10:30:09 PM »
Thanks, guys.
Bill, the torsion springs are still available but for how long I don't know. I have one replacement set for five CR 600s... might get another set - thanks

Wyo
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Offline Nutcracker

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Re: Crosman 600 Trigger Mod
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2017, 09:42:01 AM »
Thanks for the tip, will try that.  Nice group.

Offline robtmc

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Re: Crosman 600 Trigger Mod
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2017, 04:14:16 PM »
What did you refinish your 600 with?  When I rebuilt mine I stripped off the old black paint.  Tried a few paints, but none were toughenough.  Stripped it back to bare aluminum and polished it.  Pimp-style 600, if i could only find pearl grip panels.
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Offline WyoMan

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Re: Crosman 600 Trigger Mod
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2017, 12:00:11 AM »
Hi Robert, I used ceramic coating because I wanted to keep the coating thickness at a minimum. It made it easier to get the slide group and other areas with tight tolerance to fit.

Wyo
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Offline Jadocs

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Re: Crosman 600 Trigger Mod
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2017, 03:32:31 PM »
Your 600's are the best I have ever seen. Very nice
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Offline WyoMan

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Re: Crosman 600 Trigger Mod
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2017, 11:29:08 PM »
Hi K - thanks for that.
Get a 600.. everyone should have at least one... or two.. or five ;D

Wyo
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Offline n2ri

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Re: Crosman 600 Trigger Mod
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2018, 01:20:33 PM »
your gun has the 3 new trigger revision parts installed that horseshoe cam being main addition with oins, roller and trigger mods to accommodate it. what function does the horseshoe cam perform and how does it prevent full auto events as factory claimed it was for? this kit and parts is no longer available and my gun is one of the thousands that never got it. cant see what its extension into tube area does but looks like its made to keep parts from flopping out of alignment and also prevent trigger from being pulled when fired recoil can cause a 'bump stock' or double tap effect causing full auto which is what mine feels like when it does it as letting go of trigger stops full auto firing even with no pellets left til pressure is low enough to vent remaining gas I have yet to get 2 full magazines shot on 1 powerlet due to this or periodic loading/feeding jams. wish Crosman hadnt stopped making their superpels as they are only ones made to feed well. as for the slop in linkage a washer on the pin that horseshoe cam is on would hold seer in alignment and maybe a stronger/thicker seer spring that dont bend so easy.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2018, 01:34:46 PM by n2ri »
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Offline CraigH

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Re: Crosman 600 Trigger Mod
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2018, 08:01:27 PM »
Good stuff as always, just the best, Wyo.    8)       I recently acquired a 600.    Having a few feed issues but hope to get things in order.   Just looked up the lengths of several wadcutter pellets for consideration relative to the feed arm dimension.     Besides the pawl, I have seen information that when the pressure gets low, it is possible for a full-auto event.    I did experience that, but checked the trigger and all was in order.
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Offline WyoMan

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Re: Crosman 600 Trigger Mod
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2018, 12:06:23 AM »
Thanks guys.

Craig, all of my 600s go full-auto when the gas pressure isn't high enough to force the hammer (far enough back) so the sear can catch it. It's really a pseudo full-auto and you want to have the magazine cleared at that point. It's what they do when you fire to empty.

Just like my 451, you have to be willing to sacrifice some gas at the end, and cut it short, to avoid the low-power action malfunction / misfire.

I use H&N wadcutters and they feed flawlessly. Other folks have had luck with RWS. The main thing is that the head of the next pellet in queue cannot "nest" inside the skirt of the pellet in the feed arm. Also, the feed arm should have a smooth chamfer (free from burrs) so the next pellet back can have its head pushed back when the feed arm rotates down. This pushes the entire stack to the rear. The stack moves forward when the feed arm returns allowing the next pellet to go into the feed arm. Lots going on and lots can go wrong. One more thing, after you load the magazine, don't let the follower snap into the pellet stack. Hold it against the spring and slowly move it forward.

Wyo
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Offline WyoMan

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Re: Crosman 600 Trigger Mod
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2018, 12:52:37 AM »
Mitch, I think I understand most of that. First, I think you're correct that a washer on the pin for the pawl would keep the pawl, trigger, and trigger link from floating, but that's not going to solve any problems. the trigger components are too thick to have any of them slide over or under one another.

The "horseshoe cam" and "roller" is what Crosman calls the stop roller and stop. It gives you a half-cock safety position (the part that extends into the tube moves up to hold the hammer away from the valve). In the un-cocked position, the valve stem is open from the hammer pushing it in. Without the stop roller and stop, you would have to fully cock the hammer to install a fresh cartridge. Not the best situation but okay if you mind the safety and trigger.

This mechanism could prevent full-auto if either of the sears broke (during the shot). But you would also have to release the trigger for the stop to engage the hammer... unlikely scenario.
I could show more pictures if you want.

I would make sure your torsion springs have not been tweaked. The action needs to snap into place to latch. There is also a chance you're not getting enough blow-back gas pressure. The valve vent may need cleared or the hammer o-ring seal (to the valve) may need replaced... hth

Wyo
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