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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => China/Asian AirGun Gate => Topic started by: stalwart on June 26, 2013, 07:37:47 PM

Title: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on June 26, 2013, 07:37:47 PM
There are a few 17 builds in my near future, and some will be rather extreme. Started on one that will prove to be mild compared to later tries. Comments and suggestions are more than appreciated... and if anyone has done a mod that isn't already all over the net, you are welcome to post it here. Here goes...

Milled off the fake slide release and the sights in prep for a full length Picatinny rail, and cut a Marlin Micro Groove .22 barrel blank to 10 inches.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: robert w on June 26, 2013, 09:28:15 PM
keep on im listening opps watching . looks like your aiming for dime sized groups at 10 meters isn't you?
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on June 27, 2013, 01:02:10 AM
Indeed.  ;D  And, when that gets too easy, I'll move back 10 more... and so on, I have 50M to run in.

Barrel extension is 11mm (7/16"), same as all the cool Crosman aftermarket stuff.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: TleVta on June 27, 2013, 01:28:01 AM
You're off to a very nice start. I like my P17 stock for the time being, but I'm gonna watch this one. Carry on, please.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on June 27, 2013, 03:13:40 AM
Thank you!

Appreciate the company, guys.

Takes a very firm push to get through the nose, then it snaps in place. I was prepared to place a set screw in the heavy party of the nose if I had to loosen it's tolerances (to reclaim them), but it won't need it. The plastic is quite firm. It's pretty good stuff... and as an avid RC guy, I have played with every kind China has come up with.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on June 28, 2013, 08:04:20 AM
It runs!  ;D

I'm happy. I put a sweet 2 stage trigger job in it, and ran a hundred through it. It's surprisingly quiet, and is no longer "recoil-less". It kicks a bit... kinda cool.

I really like that a 12.5" OAL gun can have a 10" barrel.

I took a bunch of pics of the trigger job. I'll try to explain it the best I can, but may need help making it all clear.

Next is the sight rail, and a big decision. I'm not a bling kinda guy, but given the choice of matte black powder coating the barrel and other shiny bits, or clear... I'm thinking the barrel does look sorta sexy with the contrast. What do you guys think?

 
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: MartinDWhite on June 28, 2013, 10:04:47 AM
What speed is a 22 pellet coming out of that P17?
Are you planning any power upgrades other than a longer barrel?
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on June 28, 2013, 10:16:10 AM
LOL... as a matter of fact, I have the chrony set up, and am waiting for the battery to finish charging. Hard numbers (my favorite kind), very soon. The light is perfect.

Then, the port gets drilled out before another chrony run. The last thing this one gets is a piece of solder crushed in the tube, then measured to get the best thickness for an aluminum disc to glue to the piston head for max compression.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on June 28, 2013, 10:57:06 AM
.22 CPHP (14.3gr) @ 335fps = 4FPE... Stocker runs .177  Copperheads (9.25gr) at 390FPS = 3FPE

Gun is 65mm longer, and gained a pound of juice. Not a bad trade?
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: SnoValley on June 28, 2013, 12:07:28 PM
.22 CPHP (14.3gr) @ 335fps = 4FPE... Stocker runs .177  Copperheads (9.25gr) at 390FPS = 3FPE

Gun is 65mm longer, and gained a pound of juice. Not a bad trade?
Nice numbers. Have you considered the Phil MSP mod?
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on June 28, 2013, 12:48:12 PM
Yeah, I think it's a good start, too. Pretty happy, actually...

I don't plan to try MSP for a while. I have to build a detuned .177 for my girl, and then the sky's the limit.

Can you link me to dimensions on the MSP valve? It would be a perfect set up for a carbine I'm pondering.


Edit: Thanks! http://www.network54.com/Forum/275684/thread/1305736542/Beeman+P-17+multi-stroke+finished%21 (http://www.network54.com/Forum/275684/thread/1305736542/Beeman+P-17+multi-stroke+finished%21)
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on June 29, 2013, 07:26:36 AM
Tried the set screw in the nose set up, and found it to be stout, and easy to adjust for breech clearances. Reshaped the barrel for it, and rail mount screw clearance. Caliber changes will be easy with this design.

This plastic is superb... it taps well, and resists cutting enough to allow methods and tools for soft aluminum to get precise results.

Squared off the top and side of "slide" (got most of the molding waves out), and cut the rail to fit.

Cut a recessed target (90*) muzzle, and cut the breech face to nearly match the dia of the o-ring and rounded outside it. I learned something while fitting the barrel... now that it's long enough to "sip" a vacuum inside it, I can check the seal. Turns out that the "slide" flexes just enough that when a vacuum will hold with the gun at rest, it doesn't necessarily hold when cocked. When fitted perfectly, if the breech face is sharply angled... it can shave the face off the ring. I'm sure a loose fit doesn't lose much air (not much time to), but I want this rig as consistent as possible. Works fine now, and feels very precise when closing.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on June 30, 2013, 04:59:39 AM
Nearly done. Powder coating, then a bit of hotrodding left.

The rail, attached with three 4mm screws, makes a great backbone. It's all very rigid now. I ordered rail pads, but the rail alone beats the narrow, sharp upper. Quite comfy now, and I'm less concerned with high compression making the thing hard to take.

I like these, this is just the beginning...
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on June 30, 2013, 02:25:48 PM
Opened up the port to 4mm... gained just over 5fps. Not a lot, but tells me that raising the compression without porting would have left some gains negated by restriction.

It will be finished soon!  ;D

Just tested, and found there is .84mm of space left in the tube. Have no idea if that is enough to bother, but I'll know soon.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 01, 2013, 03:52:34 AM
 ;)
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Slavia on July 01, 2013, 12:32:43 PM
Good stuff all around.  I especially like your rail solution.  It's clean, strong, and versatile.  Also, I think you will like the feel of the hammer spur extensions.

If the weight of the barrel and scope change the balance too much you can easily add weight to the grip area.  I mixed a slurry of epoxy and BB's and dropped it into the vacant cavities of the plastic "honeycomb."  Spent pellets would work as well.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 02, 2013, 12:45:19 AM
Thanks.   ;D  I've been meaning to ask you... if you had another 17, what would you do to it?

I'm almost finished, and I'm already doing prelim measurements for a carbine. Your 1008 is inspiration. What does it weigh?

Took the molding lines off the frame, and got the powder coating done. Went with Federal Standard 27038 matte black... it has a slight sheen I really like, and ages well. I'll do shiny some other time.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: TleVta on July 02, 2013, 12:52:17 AM
Impressive work. How hard would it be to mount a weaver rail under the gun just like a Webly & Scott Alecto?
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 02, 2013, 01:04:25 AM
Appreciate the encouragement! This stuff is so much more fun when you can show it off, to folks who get it.

It would be a pretty straightforward mod. I measured it out, but won't be doing it to this one. I'm trying to keep this one simple... the temptation to add features is almost too much to resist!  ;)

There is plenty of meat along the bottom, to work with. A small flat spot with room for 2 mount screws is enough. I'll cut mine inset a bit, so the rail indexes... will look pretty clean.

What's your first mod going to be?
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: TleVta on July 02, 2013, 01:31:58 AM

What's your first mod going to be?

I put one of these on the dovetail:

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/BSA_Laser_Sight_With_MTS/288 (http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/BSA_Laser_Sight_With_MTS/288)

But I didn't like it cluttering up the FO sights. If I could mount it under the gun somehow, I'd be pretty happy.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 02, 2013, 01:45:44 AM
Looks like it's nicely compact... except for the mount. If it is meant to stay on the gun, I'd consider modding it to eliminate the quick release, and mount it directly. There is a nice block of plastic at the base you could shape to fit the bottom of the gun. It would be a lot more comfortable, too.

I'm looking into integrating a laser into the next one. There are 2 ways, I'm measuring for both... and already cut up a laser flashlight for the laser, switch, and rubber button. 
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Slavia on July 02, 2013, 11:24:43 AM
I've been meaning to ask you... if you had another 17, what would you do to it?

Mine evolved over time according to my tastes, so it would probably be pretty much the same.  I would eliminate the flashlight.  Although it works and looks cool, I seldom use it.  I have eliminated wascally wabbits in the garden (5-7 yard shots), but it's not a hunting gun.  Because of the power level I would stay with .177, with maybe an extra 2" of barrel to squeeze out a little more accuracy.  The longer barrel would have a fake compensator/muzzle brake - rounded on the top/bottom, slab sides, and compensator slots cut on the top.  I would definitely copy your top rail - that's super clean.

Your 1008 is inspiration. What does it weigh?
I haven't actually weighed it, but I'm guessing about 4 pounds.  The pistol itself doesn't weigh anything.  My usual ritual is to take the completed project down to Charlie's Hardware, where he weighs it on the nail scale.  A side note:  that buttstock has a lot of leverage on the mounting screws, and I didn't think the plastic would hold for long.  Instead I bedded "T" nuts in JB Weld 
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 02, 2013, 07:18:07 PM
I've been meaning to ask you... if you had another 17, what would you do to it?

Mine evolved over time according to my tastes, so it would probably be pretty much the same. 
It's a great rig... I can see why.

Guys, what do you think? It's together!
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on July 02, 2013, 08:42:43 PM
Eric,

I like it! I bet it cocks much nicer, no sharp edged rear sight to bite you.  The red dot looks good on it, is it variable brightness?  As a .22 pistol is it easier to load?  I say you done good, you can be proud of your efforts.

BobH.

Guys, what do you think? It's together!
[/quote]
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 02, 2013, 09:04:38 PM
Thanks, Bob. I'm very happy with it. Yeah, .22s are a bunch easier to load, especially for a ham handed spaz (that would be me).

The sight has 5 settings each, in red or green, and is surprisingly effective. I hated the size, but it is becoming worth the bulk. I really wish they had put the side turret on the right side, though. I snap shoot with both eyes open, and my left eye is drawn to the turret. Turned upside down, the housing virtually disappears.

The rail pads aren't needed, and sure aren't pretty... but, dayum they're cushy! They stay.

Just tested your pellet loaders, with the hardest challenge: Stocker, with the sharp edged breech... and Daisy wadcutters. Slick! Pure and simple. Very good design... well executed. Kudos.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Slavia on July 02, 2013, 10:39:47 PM
I like the visual effect of putting the scope all the way forward.  Yes indeed, keep the rail cover.  Mine has a bit of toolbox drawer liner adhered to the gun.  Not as clean an installation as yours, but the cushiness is great.  A very nice project.

I snap shoot with both eyes open, and my left eye is drawn to the turret.
My $30 BSA red dot has a lot of "parallax" error.  Hold the gun still while moving your head and the dot moves around.  It's worse with a pistol, because you don't have the cheek weld of a long arm to position your eye consistently.  I scraped the paint from the very rear of the ocular bezel, creating a shiny silver "ghost ring" of sorts.  That helps me center the red dot.  I know your problem is a little different, but perhaps the extra visual information from the dominant eye would help your brain ignore the turret view from your non-dominant eye. 
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 02, 2013, 11:01:28 PM
The forward scope makes a taco hold work well. This thing takes any 2 handed hold naturally, and comfortably. I'm looking into folding AR sights, and ladder type pads (much better looking) so I can go open sights with a taco.

If I become more enamored with this dot, I may cut the mounts off, and turn it 90*CW. I don't know what they were thinking...

Thanks, T. Means a lot. I've been blaming you, all along... I bet that happens a lot.  ;) ;D 8)


If anyone can find me a cheaper, more compact or innocent looking case for these, I'll buy us each one. I'm off to the foam stash...
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Slavia on July 03, 2013, 12:59:58 AM
If anyone can find me a cheaper, more compact or innocent looking case for these, I'll buy us each one. I'm off to the foam stash...
It looks like that toolbox was made for your application.  Maybe a little foam to keep them from banging around, but it looks good.

How innocent, and how cheap?  The musical instrument case was $3.00 at a garage sale, plus some foam, polar fleece, and bedliner.  The hollow book is from a craft store.  I fixed it up a bit with fake leather and polar fleece.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Papamia on July 03, 2013, 02:51:14 AM
Hi Eric,

Just read through your entire post - several times...!! Outstanding - really appreciate your work and what you've done - sweet!

I love the P17s, and even bought one for each of my brothers and my son - "cleaned them up" and gave them as gifts - (I wanted them to see how awesome the P17 is) - They love them....

Even found a P3 on Craigslist for a great price and although yes, it's nice, the P17 is just as nice (after you've cleaned it up).

Appreciate you sharing.

Thank you,
Rolando
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 03, 2013, 10:13:50 PM
Hi Eric,

Just read through your entire post - several times...!! Outstanding - really appreciate your work and what you've done - sweet!

I love the P17s, and even bought one for each of my brothers and my son - "cleaned them up" and gave them as gifts - (I wanted them to see how awesome the P17 is) - They love them....

Even found a P3 on Craigslist for a great price and although yes, it's nice, the P17 is just as nice (after you've cleaned it up).

Appreciate you sharing.

Thank you,
Rolando
You are certainly welcome, Rolando. It's this kind of post that makes it easy to take the time to grab (obviously) quick pics and pop them up. It's my pleasure, sir!  ;D

If anyone can find me a cheaper, more compact or innocent looking case for these, I'll buy us each one. I'm off to the foam stash...

How innocent, and how cheap?  The musical instrument case was $3.00 at a garage sale, plus some foam, polar fleece, and bedliner.  The hollow book is from a craft store.  I fixed it up a bit with fake leather and polar fleece.
Nice. The Gun, huh? What's in the book titled "Another Gun"?  ;)
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 04, 2013, 02:26:57 AM
Lit up the 3rd one, and it seemed to be harder to cock... and had a slightly different tone. Tested for compression space, and got .76mm... it chrono'ed at 405fps.

The first has .84mm, and runs at 390. Hmmmmm.

Stuffing these may have significant results. I'm going to leave the .22 alone for now (I love the thing as is) and experiment on something with a little less time in it.

If anyone is interested in splitting a .177 LW barrel (exactly in half) with me, PM.

Stuffed it. Glued a disc to the piston of the 3rd, then cut it down (a few thou at a time) until it just touches as it's closed. Huge gains! 3fps...  ::) It was already running + spec (405), so I'm guessing stuffing might bring them up to spec, but there isn't much more after that.

Went ahead and ported it to 4mm, we'll know more soon.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Slavia on July 04, 2013, 08:25:07 AM
I made the letters from aluminum foil sandwiched between layers of clear packing tape.  It was such a pain keeping the foil from wrinkling that I chose the shortest title that would still make sense.  My favorite is the fake library call number.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 04, 2013, 08:28:26 PM
You are far more patient than I will ever be. Amazing detail work.

I just ran across more of your 17 pics on another forum. If you are willing to share them here... please don't hesitate to post them. There's plenty of room here...

Just finished more MSP homework. It is looking like these perform as designed, and there isn't a lot more to be squeezed out unless they can take more air.

The only other option would be to go to a long nose stroker.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Papamia on July 05, 2013, 04:46:45 AM
Hi Eric,

Running into your post got me inspired, so I pulled out my P17, P3 and Hurricane then spent several hours shooting target practicing today...

Shot a tin of Crosman wadcutters - 10 yards, off hand.  It's been a while since I'd shot (work, kids, yadi, yadi, yada...) so started out a little rusty, but got back in the groove with my guns... Wow, I SO love shooting my guns!!!

Also enjoy following what you do with yours... I'm not as talented, but enjoy tinkering none the less.

Happy 4th to all.
Rolando
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 05, 2013, 12:30:28 PM
Cool. Gotta chase the rust away! Especially on the shooter.

Are you considering mods?

Been playing here, and want to experiment with some things that might kill... and I don't want to ruin the 2 that I built by "improving" them further... so, I ordered 2 more from Big Supply ($25ea... thanks, Jon).

 ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 05, 2013, 06:19:20 PM
Here's to consistency! These all give me low ESs, but the .22 has developed a tendency to give me 2 distinct groups for the price of one. After just over 1000 rounds, the pump ring is failing... but with real grace. Sometimes it's a touch easier to close and puts them into the lower group (sighted for 10M, shot at 5M, 2 hands). It's done it for the last 60 rounds, or so, and I can say I'm happy with the life of the supposedly junk rings. I lubed it lightly 5 times in that time, and think a couple bucks spent on good rings is fair enough.

My best of the twin groups:
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on July 05, 2013, 06:57:02 PM
stalwart,

Are you considering a second O ring groove on the piston?  That may be the next mod on my P17.   I'm really enjoying read about your progress.  What would be the minimum velocity to stabilize a .177 pellet, a .22 pellet both thru 1 in 16 twist barrels?

BobH.


















Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 06, 2013, 04:39:08 AM
Mine hold a charge overnight, so I probably won't until I start the multi stroke. I read that 2 can make them hold lube better. A groove between them with something absorbent in it might make a nice wiper.

Stable spin would depend on weight too... I saw the info while reading up on something else, but, like a moron... I didn't bookmark it.

How is the "sweetie friendly" research coming?


New pic is of pin replacing 2.95mm stocker with 1/8 spring steel polished to 3.08mm. Used 8mm drill twirled by hand to cut small bevel in plastic holes, and rounded the pin to allow straight start for slight press fit. Zero slop, has a real quality feel.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on July 06, 2013, 09:17:31 AM
Stable spin would depend on weight too... I saw the info while reading up on something else, but, like a moron... I didn't bookmark it.

How is the "sweetie friendly" research coming?


Well, it's the "sweetie friendly" project that drives the velocity question. 

I do not have a great grasp on pneumatics. If I compress a volume of air to one half its original volume without changing its temperature, has the pressure doubled?

I still need to compile a POI / distance graph for Ol" Softy.  Ol' Softy is the reduced velocity P 17.  One of our friends was shooting Ol' Softy with its laser sight and the lady was really enjoying it and shooting well.  She almost pinched part of her anatomy as she was closing the pistol, so I saw that it isn't "sweetie friendly" yet.

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 06, 2013, 05:34:36 PM
If you are talking about pinching where I think you are...  :o That would cure a budding AG addiction quickly.

Finished the most time consuming part of all this: Detailing the metal parts, and smoothing the frame. I really like the way the black powder coat looks on the bits... maybe the next one will be left shiny (maybe not).
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on July 06, 2013, 07:40:26 PM
Eric,

That powder coating does look good!  Have you spotted much difference between your P 17 specimens?  BTW, are significant design differences between a P 3 and a P17?  I was talking with a friend last night and he had taken delivery of a P 17 this week.  He really likes the way it shoots and now is thinking about a P 3. 

I wonder what the increase in compression and velocity did to the cocking effort?

Please keep updating us on your progress, it is very interesting.

BTW, I have a new project.  I'm cutting the bottom one half inch off of a beer can using CPHPs and my P 17 at 10 meters.  This make take a few more pellets, metal removal the fun way.  Why, because I can.

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 06, 2013, 08:23:32 PM
The first one was the plain sight, had been decently lubed (with something, or another). The FO models were dry, and had been molded with a slightly better match... much easier to smooth.

At max compression the effort is just barely noticeably more, and the speed is up a touch. Nothing amazing.

As I understand there are no differences except fit and finish. I'd like to own a P3, but wouldn't spend much.

Drilled and tapped for a barrel set screw, and while I was at it, did an off center set screw hole to retain the pivot pin. I'm sick of the clips... as often as I pull these down, they've become a real pain.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 06, 2013, 10:18:41 PM
8 3/4" barrel.


Just chrono'ed... I'm thrilled. This barrel is cut to be halfway between the 10" and a flush muzzle. It has a crack to it (the 10 sounds silenced... quietest I've shot since my first gun, a Daisy 25 BB gun). Low: 313.5, High: 318.3, Av: 314.7, ES 4.8 (edit...  didn't make sense)

The test gun ran 9.25gr .177s at 390. It is well broken in, and very consistent. The superb ES is a result of a consistent barrel and powerplant in the same gun.

10" barrels are not a waste of space in these, after all. Judging by the sound difference, I'd guess that a 12 might show little worth. I'll try it when the carbine gets underway.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on July 07, 2013, 08:38:13 AM
8 3/4" barrel.


Just chrono'ed... I'm thrilled. This barrel is cut to be halfway between the 10" and a flush muzzle. It has a crack to it (the 10 sounds silenced... quietest I've shot since my first gun, a Daisy 25 BB gun). Low: 313.5, High: 318.3, Av: 314.7, ES 6.75


Eric,
Those numbers are nice! If I remember correctly that is a 1 in 16 twist, I'm really interested in the groups that you will get out to 30 yards and what the trajectory will be.  I'm really thinking about a "friendly" .177 with a similar velocity.

Guys, this is a great build! Eric, you have made some great decisions and have done your research.

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 07, 2013, 11:29:19 AM
Thanks, Bob.

Yeah, 1 in 16. It doesn't always hit where I want it to, but this one does hit where it was pointed when the trigger was squeezed. I need practice...lol.


I think the rings in #1 are going away. Just lubed it after leading up the barrel, and got these: High:342.5, Low:339.3, Av 341.2, ES 3.22

Looks like I'll have to rethink barrel length. I'll have to test with both lengths in the same gun, to be sure... but, it looks like 8 3/4 may be a sweet spot.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 08, 2013, 06:55:48 AM
#1 had the least compression of the 3, and as I'm going to use it to test barrel lengths for efficiency I went ahead and stuffed it. It really stiffened up the cocking effort... I'm guessing that when it's chrono'ed, it will show.

For those who are contemplating doing a trigger job, I highly recommend making the oversize trigger pin first. #1 is set up with my best single stage, and as I have posted, I had to give up (allow) some creep to get a solid safety engagement (a hard squeeze would set it off, if set to it's finest). It now has less than a mm of travel (there is no such thing as "zero creep"... only that which is less than the space it takes to compress your fingertip, and therefore cannot be felt, only seen). I now cannot squeeze it hard enough to get it to fire on safe.

You won't need to precisely measure the pin. Just polish something down until it will fit the trigger's hole with resistance, and lube it to free it up. The results are superb.

FPS when the light is right.


Got a high of 351.1, and a low of 339.3, with an 11.8fps ES. The higher compression is causing a wider range of cocking efforts and speeds. Anyone here have experience with various types of O-rings in these? Seems the stock piston rings are good for about 1000 cycles before consistency suffers... no surprise as they add a black dust to the lube throughout their use.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on July 08, 2013, 11:08:31 AM
What are the issues in using a "cupped" seal?  The piston looks simple to replicate.  Back in my old two stroke motorcycle days there were "dykes" piston rings.  I think you could form a leather seal that might work.  What do you think the current chamber pressure is?

A leather seal would need to be bound to  or by the piston, just thinking out loud.

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 08, 2013, 12:51:47 PM
They can deform enough to be inconsistent. I'm not worried about anything but consistency... I'm convinced (atm) these can be made into serious target guns.

I went to a Viton 75 duro ring. The stockers are soft, too, and the most wear is at the intake hole (no surprise). New #s: 341.6L, 350.1H, 345.1av, 8.80ES. If this ring only lasts 1000 cycles, I'm fine with that.

#1 has not been ported (@2.5mm), that should put it solidly at 350+fps with 14.3gr CPHPs. Not bad.

I haven't calculated the pressure. I'm very interested in the ES numbers you get with the reduced compression.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 08, 2013, 09:32:50 PM
Prepping to cut a 7-1/2" barrel (flush with the nose), will have solid #s on 1-1/4 increments soon. Borrowed my girl's upper to run #1 with it's original .177 barrel (a consistent 9.25gr @ 390fps). At full compression with stock port: H: 401.4, L:392, Av:396.5, ES: 9.4. No surprises there...


Barrel's cut.  H:330.8, L:315.6, Av: 321.1, ES: 15.19... 14.3gr CPHP. ~25fps less than 8-3/4"
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 09, 2013, 02:22:33 PM
Here's the #s for the 10" (not that anyone asked...  ;D):

H:344.5, L:338.0, Av:341, ES:6.54

Looks like 8-3/4" is the ticket for .22. 4fps less than 10"... 25 more than 7-1/2". The 10 is very consistent, though... and amazingly quiet.

If anyone has an 18"+ .177 barrel, in decent shape, they want to sell... I'd like to run these lengths through the chrony.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on July 09, 2013, 03:42:38 PM
I chronographed  (10) shots from the reduced compression P17.  The high velocity was 375.3 and the low velocity was 362.9. The extreme spread was 12.4 and the average was 368 FPS.

The velocity is up on average of 15 FPS since I last chronographed it, perhaps the additional shooting has smoothed the barrel.  The pellets were Crosman Premier hollow Points.

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 09, 2013, 04:55:22 PM
Thanks, Bob. That's with the .040" dish, correct?

The speed increase is partially leading, but I'd bet lunch you have hit the sweet spot on the stock o-ring. They become very good, and consistent just before they wear out. How many rounds went through it so far?

The Viton ring in #1 got sweet in a hurry (genuine, MSC), and judging from the contamination of the grease (black tint) it is wearing very little compared to the stocker. It's 75 duro, and I went with a #117... same dia but thicker (the groove was generous). It holds full compression, so is hard to cock... it looks like, when broken in, it will hold single digit ESs.

How is the detuned rig handling? Sweetie like it better? That's not a huge loss of speed. According to the Beartooth calculator, you are still carrying in the range of 2FPE. I asked in the Airgun gate what was the min FPE useful in 10M pistol, and got crickets... we'll have to figure that out. All I know right now is that reduced pressures can help lead to real consistency... leaving us only a good barrel away from real precision.

I really appreciate your data. Please keep them coming. I intend to follow your numbers, and then log mine for comparison... I want to build my girl the very best pistol I can, she has been very supportive (again... as usual).
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on July 09, 2013, 05:48:49 PM
That's with the .040" dish, correct?

stalwart,

It took me awhile to comprehend the .040" dish.  The decompress is as I remember .065" deep after the second trip to the lathe and the max. dia. is .900" .  Sounds like my O ring is gonna die ,,,,soon. The O ring may have have 1300 plus cycles.  I do keep the piston greased and the breech O ring shinny with oil.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Think I'll go kill a can, I need a pellet fix.

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 10, 2013, 01:19:02 AM
You may get better wear. #1 is an earlier (non FO) model, and may have cheaper rings. Are you getting a lot of black dust mixed into your piston lube?

The Viton ring is leaving much less, and getting better with age.

Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 10, 2013, 02:09:58 AM
http://www.network54.com/Forum/275684/thread/1305736542/Beeman+P-17+multi-stroke+finished (http://www.network54.com/Forum/275684/thread/1305736542/Beeman+P-17+multi-stroke+finished)!

"Factory Valve volume: .047 cu.in. Factory Pump sweep: 3.1 cu.in Factory PSI: 969 psi

Mod Valve volume: .081 cu.in. Mod pump sweep: 2.74 cu.in. Mod psi (pumps): 1. 497 psi, 2. 994 psi, 3. 1491 psi " I'm betting this guy's #s are good.

Going with rsterne's "1cc per FPE" plenum rule of thumb, I'm working on a somewhat different MSP valve. Both .22s are hitters, and there is no speed left in blueprinting. I want a fast one.


http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=48729.msg459960#msg459960 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=48729.msg459960#msg459960)  Made another, of a better size.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 10, 2013, 09:03:55 AM
Had a little fun on the mill. Cut cleaner serrations in the trigger guard, and indexed then epoxied a bit of picatinny rail where it won't get in the way of a longer barrel.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on July 10, 2013, 09:55:49 AM
stalwart,

This is interesting, are you preparing for a laser?  I was meaning to ask,"Where did you purchase the Picatinny rail?"  What epoxy are mounting the rail with?  Most of the force applied to the milled portion of the frame is linear, do you anticipate any flex while closing the action?

If you are under mounting a laser, the trajectory and line of sight will  converge and cross only once.  This is one of the things that I'm rolling around in that empty space behind my ears, "Do I want it to cross twice?"

Please continue to keep us in the loop, this is exciting stuff.

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 10, 2013, 09:13:03 PM
I'm just messing around while I wait for the next 2 to get here. I used JB, so I can't twist it until tomorrow... but, if it fails, I cut an index tab into the rear of the rail, so 1 t-nut at the front will hold it.

Got the rail on ebay for $13.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on July 11, 2013, 11:06:31 AM
stalwart,

Seeing how I'm lazy, a question, do you have a dimensional description of the (4) O-rings that are used in the P17?  I would like to buy a small supply of them to have on hand.  To date, the only O-ring that I have replaced is on the valve.  More replacing will be a fact of life. 

The P17 has turned my 717 Daisy and my 2240 into closet princesses.  (they have lost their closet queen status)

I keep telling myself that I don't need a 22 caliber P17 special, but part of me says "That's a lie!"

Keep up the good work! and please keep us posted.

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: mrb02334 on July 11, 2013, 11:20:24 PM
The P-17 is a great pistol, I wanted to convert two to 10" barrels. One .177 and one to .22. So who can machine the barrels for me? Please pm me.
Thanks,
Jon
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 12, 2013, 01:15:50 AM
Bob, I don't have that info... please post when you find it?

Jon, it's a long round trip... but, if you can't get something (well) done closer, holler. YGPM.

I really want to get into custom .177 barrels for these. I have a strong suspicion (especially from Bob's prelim work, so far) that my sweetie's piece will end up very popular around here.

The JB almost worked on the rail... had to twist it hard to get it to pop. The rail snaps in and stays until shaken... it will be fine with 1 screw at the nose. Yeah, I got both lazy and curious... no more glue for me. :-[     ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on July 12, 2013, 11:06:44 AM
Eric,

From my perspective, the decompressing is a win, win situation, easier closing and a happier honey.  I believe that the wear will be reduced also, simply less pressure on the piston seal and pivot areas.  For my needs, it makes great pistol even better.  By the end of the year, I've have more P 17s in the closet than ties.

Well, I could be wrong, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it. YMMV

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 12, 2013, 01:12:57 PM
Should have done this from the start. I'm happy with it now.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on July 13, 2013, 07:51:16 PM
Should have done this from the start. I'm happy with it now.

Eric,

When are going to hang a laser on there?  Looks like something should be dangling,  A bit of weight there might feel nice.

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 14, 2013, 02:45:19 AM
Rings to mount a flashlight (seen in previous post) to a 7-1/2" barreled rig are coming Mon, with the next 2 17s. I never intended to build a nighttime gun, but, what the heck... they're cheap. I'm still working out an integrated laser.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 15, 2013, 04:25:21 PM
I couldn't resist... these things are like Legos. What do you all think?

I really like the way the tactical pistol looks and handles, and the target rig has a similar (and much preferred by me) nose heavy balance. These are the final configurations for a while, I think.

Waiting on UPS like a little kid... clock watching.  ::) ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on July 15, 2013, 05:17:05 PM
Eric,

The final configurations look very good.  How are the grouping?  I hope this isn't the finale!

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on July 15, 2013, 05:30:30 PM
stalwart,

Seeing how I'm lazy, a question, do you have a dimensional description of the (4) O-rings that are used in the P17?  I would like to buy a small supply of them to have on hand.  To date, the only O-ring that I have replaced is on the valve.  More replacing will be a fact of life. 

Here is a 75% answer.  I have an assortment of rubber O-rings that I bought many years ago and from this assortment I replaced (3) of the (4) O-rings used in one of the P17s.  The valve seat seal was replaced with a 1/8 X 1/4 x 1/16 O-ring.  The breech seal was replaced with a 3/16 X 5/16 X 1/16 O-ring.  The cylinder O-ring was replaced with a 3/4 X 15/16 X 3/32 O-ring.  I have yet to replace the valve stem seal.

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: TleVta on July 15, 2013, 10:54:20 PM

What do you all think?


Envious, of course.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 16, 2013, 06:43:53 AM
Eric,

The final configurations look very good.  How are the grouping?  I hope this isn't the finale!

BobH.
These are both hitters, better at the game than I am... the only kind of guns that can hold my interest long.

Not a finale... the girly gun won't be worth a lot of posts, but the carbine base is here and about to be lit up. As long as I'm not just talking to myself here... I'll keep popping pics in.



What do you all think?


Envious, of course.
You, sir, are too kind!

As is probably obvious, I really enjoy building stuff no one else has... but, having this place to bounce ideas around in, and you guys to help them gel, is what keeps this whole AG thing fresh for me.

I just sold my first custom part to a GTA member today. The SOB got his payment in just before the UPS guy brought my next 17s, so I have to finish his before I can start mine.  >:(  Thems the rules... I wait in the same line as anyone else.

 ;D

Thanks, guys.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Tom SC on July 16, 2013, 12:22:48 PM
  Keep the pics comin I'm enjoying this.  Mine is shooting nicely right now the barrel seems leaded after 400 shots and the seal is seated as well. Hope this doesn't mean a new seal soon. Shooting 1 inch spinner at 10 meters , 9 shots out of 10 or so. Just a great gun to grab 20 pellets and head to the front porch. Maintenance is a piece of cake.  Bob I did that spring mod on the trigger thanks for that one by the way. That trigger breaks sweet.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 17, 2013, 02:00:17 AM
Tom, it seems the rings in the newer FO rigs are not the same as the earlier versions. I replaced the pump ring in #2 when it was down, but it appeared it wasn't needed yet. That ring was harder, and better formed than #1's.

It was also leaving a lot less black dust in the lube.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 17, 2013, 04:19:10 AM
Now, where was I?

Oh, yeah... Carbine.  ;D  The base functions well, and wasn't dry... but the lube doesn't resemble anything I've used yet. The molding match on it is nearly perfect... the best I've seen so far. Wiping the cheap off it will be a piece of cake.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 18, 2013, 03:59:09 AM
The first thing I do to these is to pull the auto safety's pin, open the hood, and pour it and it's spring out. I was raised to never trust a "safety" device, and to check any "auto" functions. My R10 is auto, but as it requires it's own routine, unique compared to firearms, I learned to deal with it smoothly. Took a while... and the 17s don't have the mid cycle danger point... so only the R10 still has one. YMMV.

#4 not only has the best mold mating yet (the trigger guard serrations are a good measure), but the metal parts have no sharp edges. I can only guess that this is what P3 guys can take for granted.


Had to open #5 to take a look at the molding. Superb. I won't be buying any more plain sight versions, at any price. Too much time needed to make them feel right.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 29, 2013, 12:04:49 PM
Guys, I need some help here. I've been offered a chance to buy some 17s (unseen) at bulk pricing, and need to know if anyone has a non FO rig with good molding matches... and if anyone has an FO rig with poor matching. Anyone who has smoothed one knows how good the plastic is, and how much time it can take to get some right.

Thanks
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on July 29, 2013, 03:10:38 PM
Eric, All (3) of my P17s have a bow in the bottom casting. The bow is easily seen when the pistol is closed, just look at the gap between the upper and lower castings.  The F. O. model shows less gap.  However, I'm sure that you are seeing other details that are annoying.

I guess it boils down to the bulk price, and how it will effect the modifications.  I doubt that any of the bulk purchase would be considered "culls"  This sounds like a very interesting "deal."

BTW, my traditional sighted P17 now weights 31 oz.  I believe it is behaving better in the "off hand" mode.  I now know that I have been pulling most of my offhand shots to the right,  the cause is improper placement of my crooked right index finger. " I'll be talking to myself more each day."

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: 45Man on July 30, 2013, 08:04:54 PM
...Seeing how I'm lazy, a question, do you have a dimensional description of the (4) O-rings that are used in the P17?  I would like to buy a small supply of them to have on hand.  To date, the only O-ring that I have replaced is on the valve.  More replacing will be a fact of life...
See Reply #12
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=43321.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=43321.0)
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on July 31, 2013, 08:27:18 AM
45Man,

Thank you for the link. 

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on July 31, 2013, 11:53:54 AM
One of my P17's has put on some weight. I added shot mixed with wood putty to the cavities in grip and frame, then I added a lead wrapper to the barrel.  The barrel wrapper is CA'd  to the barrel tube.  There wasn't room for lead on the bottom of the tube as there is very little space between the barrel and the cylinder when the pistol is closed.  The weight of this P17 is 31.25 ounces (this is not the reduce velocity / laser sighted one). If feels more steady for off hand shooting.

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 31, 2013, 03:43:01 PM
45Man,

Thank you for the link. 

BobH.
+1

Bob, I think I'm going to set one up with weights. Slavia is also a proponent, and although #1 and 2 are (most agreeably) nose heavy, they may simply weigh too little for good offhand. I hope so... at a BR, both will hit aspirin all day @5m, but it can sometimes take me a morning session to pull off even 1 of the groups I sent the pic of. I'm fighting drawing shallow arcs with the F sight. Even with the heavy muzzles, they are still too easy to move around.

I'm considering a steel grip base to lower the CG (possibly adjustable weight), and some kind of grip mods very similar to Slavia's. If I do the base right, it should also make a good attachment point in carbine mode.

I'm leading the 7.5" barrel in #3, and it's starting to respond as the first 2. I cannot over emphasize how much I like working with seasoned barrels. They take a couple cleanings before and during slugging and cutting, and at least one after... and all (including the 2 I've sold) have tightened right back up within 100 rounds. They get downright sweet within the next 100.

I'm seriously thinking about making the girly gun an MG barrel, too.

Too much fun. 

Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on August 02, 2013, 05:01:39 PM
It's now official... all 3 finished MG 17s are better at this game than I am. Pic of the best of the #3 groups @5M, 1 handed. Got in a few almost as good, but as a spaz, it's getting frustrating.... so, I ordered a rest for pistols. I need to know what these can actually do.

I'm setting up a 20M indoor range to get out of having to wait on the wind. It's insulated, so I can shoot all winter. This AG thing is like a swimming pool with 6' of shallow end... couple steps, and you're in it deep.

 8) ;D


Pic of the first shot of the afternoon... @5, 2 handed, #3. All my other guns are idle, and have been for a while...  Ignoring the price completely, I can still say that I believe these to be among the very best values out there. I've studied a lot of builds, of a lot of things, and I've never seen anything that required so few outside parts to excel. I'm just getting started here.

Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on August 08, 2013, 08:58:02 AM
Eric,

I agree the p17 is a lot of pistol for the buck. You have done some amazing work!

Now for me it is decision time again, I got my favorite target pistol out of the safe. It's a 40 caliber inline with a DeHass barrel and Ruger .22 auto grip geometry. It fist me very well, much better than the P17.  I'm contemplating some serious additions to the P17 geometry.  Will it ever end?

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on August 08, 2013, 09:20:05 PM
Thanks, Bob!

The little range is almost ready, I had to do some shooting for inspiration, though. There's a lot left to do, but it's clear, and almost clean.

I've been messing around trying to come up with something clean, rigid, and low profile to strengthen the upper before I even consider MSP. This is the base of it. The channel will be cut to sit tight on the top on this one, but a later version may be tall enough to house the laser.

I left a few thou of interference... it can be pressed on by hand, barely, but requires a pry bar to remove. It will be screwed on, but I wanted as rigid and tight as possible alignment. Just jammed on, it makes the upper very stout.

I considered a lot of things, and I think I have as versatile a base here as possible. It's open to a lot of easy variants.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on August 10, 2013, 01:09:52 AM
I'm happy with this, it's quite rigid... even with no screws. Only 3mm taller than stock.

Scope rings are next.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on August 11, 2013, 07:52:14 AM
Flipped the latch. I'm setting this up so I can open it easily with my left hand, without moving my right. I'm figuring out an upper extension to allow easy cocking without loading the scope... and the standard set up would be clumsy, at best.

I've been pondering stocks, and my best choice seems to be a Twin Vertical Plate design. Being able to open these up from the top will allow many more, and simpler designs to work.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on August 11, 2013, 08:37:22 AM
Eric,
You have accomplished clean and rigid by the looks of things.  Can hardly wait to see the new latch design.  With additional barrel length and a shoulder stock added, will the lower polymer frame flex?

BobH.

Flipped the latch. I'm setting this up so I can open it easily with my left hand, without moving my right. I'm figuring out an upper extension to allow easy cocking without loading the scope... and the standard set up would be clumsy, at best.

I've been pondering stocks, and my best choice seems to be a Twin Vertical Plate design. Being able to open these up from the top will allow many more, and simpler designs to work.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on August 12, 2013, 03:52:31 AM
A good TVP should eliminate any flex of the lower, as it will double up the sides.

The other feature I like about the design is that it will not need to be attached to the grip's base, leaving it open at the bottom (ala AR).

Have you started on your Ruger grip design?

Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on August 16, 2013, 07:15:58 PM
Every time I tried @ 10M, my eyesight just let me down. My sweetie fixed that for me.

Gotta love the old girl. Bug Buster. It's the 3-9... and the infinitely adjustable brightness is simple and sweet. Aspirin are big @5... gonna reach out tonight.

Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on August 16, 2013, 09:36:11 PM
Eric,

Let's see, three plus one, that's four keepers!  That sounds like a nice lady.

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on August 17, 2013, 02:19:59 AM
Yeah, I got lucky after a long wait. She gets me... and that is, frankly, rare. Just another reason I want the girly gun to be special.

I'm off to degrade the structural integrity of some cardboard to aid in it's recycling.  ;D  Pics if I don't embarrass myself too much.


This gun is better than I am. My best @ 10M:
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on August 18, 2013, 10:14:25 PM
As this one is top heavy, even the tiny bit of muzzle flip, combined with any cant, throws things off. Made a cradle from scrap, and it helps. When fired, if canted, the scope shows the sidestep a level predicts.

This gun has roughly a thousand through it since the pump o-ring was changed (Viton, 75 duro). It's back to giving 2 distinct groups... same distance apart as the last time. The difference can usually be felt during cocking, and the low shots can often be predicted. I may try 90 duro rings, but I'm happy with the life of the soft ones... and they give great consistency, right up to this point.

I'm learning a lot at the bench. Enough that I'm close to sliding a BR specific rig to the front of the line. Besides, I've wanted an excuse to get a little tacky... I like subdued looks on guns, but suspect my pics are boring more folks than just me. I certainly have enough black guns for anyone.

Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on August 19, 2013, 09:52:20 PM
Got a little time in on the mill.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on August 22, 2013, 03:01:18 PM
Cut a MG to 12.5", and set it up for an integrated compensator. I haven't decided what kind of port(s) to cut, but it should look ok. As an SSP, this thing should be very quiet.


Got speeds... L 347, H 358, Av 347. #5... Stock 2.5mm port, compression unknown (feels moderate). Not bad... a touch faster than the 10, and quiet. Tuned up, it should hit 560 360 with 14.3gr CPHP.  ;D


Ran a handful through it, without tearing the stock lower down to check for a sharp edged intake. Made a target, sighted it in and established it's preferred hold... and settled in for some shooting. Immediately started getting double groups. The ring is toast, but I saw enough to know I'm on track to a decent pistol.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on August 24, 2013, 04:20:51 AM
I'm becoming fond of this latest rig... enough that I'm changing the plan a bit. This one's staying a pistol.

I've come up with some changes to the carbine design that will require some parts and materials orders, and just ordered another "victim"... from MM. We'll see what comes, but my experience so far has been that I won't regret letting the guy inside my new gun before I see it. I don't do that, ever... but, the 79 he sold me remains unmodified as I chop up everything else around here. There is simply no hurry on that one.

Does anyone else like the look of the long one? It's growing on me, and the balance is actually quite good.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on August 27, 2013, 08:45:52 AM
No? That's ok... my girl loves it. It's her gun now.  :D

Got a good start on a rail for attaching grip bases and weights.


Turned the shoulder of the grip screw spacer, and cinched it all down.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: althawk on August 29, 2013, 12:30:56 AM
hmmm... how does that, don't know what to call it... inner grip mounting block? how does it function with the larger spring that is part of the trigger assembly?

I've seen a few posts where people haven't been all to comfortable with how that particular spring is jabbing into the plastic of the grip, and this got me thinking maybe there is some way to change that, using this as a guide/grip frame support.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on August 29, 2013, 03:16:16 AM
Yeah, I don't know what to call it either. I'm going with it's first function, and calling it the grip base rail... for now. On second thought... a real engineer could tell us, but I believe that adding any functions would qualify it as a sub-frame (if the added benefit of bracing doesn't already). It's a sub-frame.  8)

Good thinking... it would be very easy to incorporate a spring perch into the next one. There is room to extend the plate higher in the rear.

Without the rail, I always just twist the little "L" at the end of the small spring until it grabs the plastic a bit, and use that to retain both (it overlaps) so I can test without the R grip, and assemble easily. In the next version, I'll be leaving this spring alone and using a choice of holes to perch it. I plan to see if the already good lock time can be reduced by preloading it more.

I was pleasantly surprised at how much stiffer everything is with the rail installed. There are a lot of different contact points, and it's quite rigid. I left the plate tall to try to come up with an adjuster for the sear spring... I'm aiming for a fully adjustable trigger.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on August 30, 2013, 07:35:29 PM
The Xisico XSP 120D just arrived. There are a lot of subtle but important differences between it and the 17s... it is a better gun. Well worth the small price difference, even without the extra (.22) barrel.

Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on August 31, 2013, 08:49:50 AM
Guys, what is the family tree on these? I understand the HW40 was the origin, does anyone know all the variant's histories? Who all has made them, and when?

TIA

Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: althawk on September 01, 2013, 02:43:50 AM
What are the subtle differences between the p17 and the XSP 120D?
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on September 01, 2013, 11:10:45 AM
I haven't opened up anything more than the grip, but so far:

Far crisper and accurate molding
Slightly different cosmetics (see pic... look at "mag release" location, and edges of finger grooves)
Clipped pin in rear (no set screw in valve body)
Better quality pins, with 2 more under grip
Cleaner stampings of lock parts
Cleaner castings with different plating
Smaller screw heads in barrel retainer

The plastic feels firmer and grippier... but I can't say if it's much different until I cut it. It has a less slippery (greasy?) look.

It's the perfect mold matching I'm thrilled about. The entire center seam is smooth, and the trigger guard serrations are literally perfect (takes a while to mill those straight). This is the biggest time saver.

Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on September 04, 2013, 03:49:38 PM
I may have seriously underestimated these gun's potential.

14.3gr CPHP.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on September 05, 2013, 08:43:22 PM
Was messing with the 120, and saw something interesting... a seam. The pistons are 2 piece!

The threads are very coarse, but if you're careful, you can adjust for max compression without jamming and bending the pivot pin. Stuffing... without a lathe!

I'll be deepening the rod's hole just a bit, so I can reduce compression at will. The gummy stuff they used to lock the parts will be replaced with a set screw.

It's like dating identical twins... it isn't the similarities that are most interesting.  ;)
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on September 05, 2013, 09:27:11 PM
That was almost too easy.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BillK on September 05, 2013, 10:29:04 PM
So,  you get a pistol with a power adjuster.  Pretty cool.  Nice work on the set screw.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on September 05, 2013, 10:35:53 PM
Thanks, Bill. I'm having a lot of fun with these... so much potential.

Exposed rod shoulder shows the difference in length between easy to cock (child's play), and full compression (shown). Hard numbers soon...
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: 45Man on September 05, 2013, 10:44:01 PM
From the pic of the Xisico XSP 120d,
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51045.0;attach=66694;image)
the only difference I can see from my P17, is the Beeman P17 molding on the side.  Fake slide stop looks a bit smaller on the XSP 120d.
(http://home.comcast.net/~smithmonte/images/firearms/beeman_p17.jpg)

Mine opens a whole lot further than the Xisico XSP 120d you show.  Angle measures 155deg.  Do you actually get enough compression at that reduced stroke?

My red dot really stiffens up the slide so there is no flex at all.  The dovetail mounts & tube have turned it into an H-beam.

Maybe the P17's come from more than one factory in China?

Pics on Pyramid now show FO sights.
(http://cdn.pyramydair.com/images/Beeman-P17_BN-2004.jpg)

BTW, how much does the Xisico XSP 120d cost?
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on September 05, 2013, 11:28:26 PM
There are a lot of little differences, but most can't be seen without both in hand.

I didn't open the 120 all the way for that pic. They are the same, all I've done is make the last couple mm of piston travel adjustable.

I paid MM $55 shipped. Comes with.177 and .22 barrels.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on September 06, 2013, 01:11:16 AM
"Maybe the P17's come from more than one factory in China?" I don't know, but would like to know all I can about the history of all the variants of this design.

Chrony #s (.22 CPHP), with the compression set so that after firing, the upper opens with a bit of spring. Preloaded... max before bending pin: L 305.4, H 323.3, Av 312.0, ES 17.85. Not bad.

With the comp turned down as far as the shoulder allows, it runs at around 275. This parallels BobH's experience... an easy cocking gun doesn't cost a lot of speed.

Also as he found, the CPHPs fit 120s very tightly. My fingertips hurt, and I have 1 pellet that even the head wouldn't go in. I'm going to polish it, but as the Crosmans are fat, I'm betting many pellets will fit beautifully.

Still quite happy with this gun.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Plinkster68 on September 06, 2013, 09:13:21 AM
Love the mods, very nice work, keep them coming.......
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on September 06, 2013, 11:05:52 PM


Also as he found, the CPHPs fit 120s very tightly. My fingertips hurt, and I have 1 pellet that even the head wouldn't go in. I'm going to polish it, but as the Crosmans are fat, I'm betting many pellets will fit beautifully.

Still quite happy with this gun.


Eric,
I put the 120 on paper today, I think it has a lot of potential. I lightly radiused the chamber using the lathe and 220 sand paper.  I was pleased with the groups.  I'm in the process of making an "L" shaper seating tool out of nylon.  I chose nylon because I had some on hand.  The chamber is still tight, but that may be a good thing.  I will experiment before I open it up more.

Already, I have a preference for the 120 over a stock 2240, better sights and a better trigger.

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on September 07, 2013, 12:03:45 AM
Thanks, Plinkster... you can bet there is more to come.  ;D

Bob, I agree... on all counts. The Crosman comes in at the same price, but requires a lot more be spent to come close to the trigger quality. Getting both calibers is just icing. If I had a $75 budget to rope in a new shooter, I'd hit Walmart for a tin of pellets, some lube and a pair of safety glasses... and send the rest to Mike. No question.

I haven't leaded up my 120 yet, but will soon. Have you noticed how prominent the lands are on the .22 barrels? Given the tight barrel, this thing is begging to be lapped into a real target piece. I'm amazed at how much a guy can do to these without spending anything more.

When more guys get to try these in .22, I'm betting my enthusiasm won't be quite so puzzling. The foot long is @ 4.8FPE (about to lose the "F" rating), and there is a lot you can do with that in the real world. With lowered compression, they are a blast as a gallery gun/trainer. I'm leaving mine at minimum for now.

Always ready to compare notes with you, Bob.  8)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on September 07, 2013, 02:30:48 AM
Here's a look at the inside. A few differences... also note the lightly engraved "WARING" . The pins are better, and a much better fit. The little twist I always put in the small spring's "L" was already done to this one.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on September 08, 2013, 11:27:36 PM
Ran about 100 through the 120, and then chambered it to be somewhat stiff with CPHP, crowned it, and put a target trigger job on it. Before and 1st after... @5. Flyer at left was just me spazzin', but the rest were well shot.

I highly recommend a good crowning, right out of the box. I have plenty of feet of good .22 barrel here, and won't be lapping this one, but I haven't seen this good a candidate in a stock gun in a very long time. A progressive lap would leave this tight barrel with a significant choke.

Another example of how careful labor nets you things with these, that money can't even buy with many guns.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: althawk on September 08, 2013, 11:42:52 PM
OK... so far

Beeman P17 /  Xisico XSP 120D /  HDS9 / WMN Mod. S 9 / Beeman P3 / Weihrauch HW40    [clone, clone, clone, clone, re-brand, original]

Is what I have for the models/variations. Should I add the HW 75 as an all-metal version or the prototype for the composite pistol?
http://www.muzzle.de/N3/Druckluft/Weihrauch_HW_75/weihrauch_hw_75.html (http://www.muzzle.de/N3/Druckluft/Weihrauch_HW_75/weihrauch_hw_75.html)

LoL at the "WARING" almost as bad as "Made in Hina"...
Other differences, correct me if i'm wrong, is that the XSP 120 doesn't have the dimples on the grip?
Kind of like the WMN Mod. S 9 (a 2010 variant that was/is available in germany)? (http://www.muzzle.de/N7/Druckluft/Marksman_2004_Deluxe/muzzle_WMN_S9.jpg)(http://www.waffen-naunin.de/images/product_images/popup_images/105_1.jpg)


http://www.muzzle.de/N7/Druckluft/Marksman_2004_Deluxe/marksman_2004_deluxe.html (http://www.muzzle.de/N7/Druckluft/Marksman_2004_Deluxe/marksman_2004_deluxe.html)
http://www.waffen-naunin.de/product_info.php/info/p105_Luftpistole-Mod--S9-Kal--4-5-mm.html (http://www.waffen-naunin.de/product_info.php/info/p105_Luftpistole-Mod--S9-Kal--4-5-mm.html)
(59.95 euro is about $79 USD)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on September 08, 2013, 11:58:52 PM
Thanks!

There is no doubt the 75 is a blood relative. I think yes.

You are correct, in fact the 120 shares the clipped rear pin, and the crisp contours with the S9 as well... maybe more inside.

Your info is most appreciated!  ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: althawk on September 09, 2013, 12:26:57 AM
It does look like more attention was taken to the plastic on these newer pistols.

Hypothetical Timeline:
1989 - 1990s : HW 75 / Beeman P2
1998? : HW 40 / Beeman P3
2004-2006 : Marksman 2004 enters production
            Main Quality Control Issues: O-rings getting eaten up by the sharp piston air inlet hole.
                                                          Plastic frame flex problems.

            Consumers are skeptical of cheap looking clone.
            Other consumers buy, provide product testing, realize hey this things pretty neat once you get a good one.

2006 - 2012: Beeman P17 / WMN Mod. S 9
           Name changes to P17 (initially a sticker, eventually becomes molded into plastic)
           '09-'10 : Factory addresses the air inlet hole problem, ships these fixed pistols in a combo pack with a cheap/junk red dot.
           Walmart buys/sells all the old stock Marksman/Beeman p17's stand alone pistols.
           Main Quality Control Issues: Stock O-rings are junk.
                                                        Trigger stampings.

          Consumers complain that cheap plasticy gun worked well for 0-50 shots then failed.
          Other consumers read Derrick's wonderful blog, buy o-rings & white lithium grease, fixed the problem and had fun for 50+ shots.
          http://anotherairgunblog.blogspot.com/2009/02/derricks-beeman-p17-overhaul-finale.html (http://anotherairgunblog.blogspot.com/2009/02/derricks-beeman-p17-overhaul-finale.html)

2013: Xisico XSP 120D
          Fiber Optics added to Beeman P17
          Better molding or attention to plastic in factory.
          Main Quality Control Issues :  XSP 120D : Someone forgot to run "waring" by legal.

          Consumers see fiber optics, buy, then complain about accuracy.
          Other consumers try out optics, find accuracy, research known mods.
         

I haven't seen a lot of reports of piston o-rings getting 'eaten' by the sharp inlet hole on newer models, so I am assuming that the factory(s) or better informed consumers are addressing the issue.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: althawk on September 09, 2013, 01:36:06 AM
Was re-reading derrick's blog, and looking at the trigger parts, (circa 2009):
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_bqGQAyE5rgE/SaBWk9DWkGI/AAAAAAAAAQw/CKJoZDZ_Acs/s320/P2120092.JPG) (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=49115.0;attach=68330;image)

are they painting them now? or using some oxide coating on them? They certainly look less rough.

Just looking at these two pics, at their full size, you can really see some of the minute changes to the plastic mold.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_bqGQAyE5rgE/SaBWk9DWkGI/AAAAAAAAAQw/CKJoZDZ_Acs/s1600-h/P2120092.JPG (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_bqGQAyE5rgE/SaBWk9DWkGI/AAAAAAAAAQw/CKJoZDZ_Acs/s1600-h/P2120092.JPG)
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=49115.0;attach=68329;image (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=49115.0;attach=68329;image)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on September 09, 2013, 02:01:38 AM
It's a coating. Very effective, and holds lube well. I didn't get a pic of the edges of the stampings, but they have much smaller imperfections in them. They break in quicker, and are easier to polish.

Well done posts ^.  8)
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Plinkster68 on September 09, 2013, 11:03:00 AM
I couldn't resist... these things are like Legos. What do you all think?

I really like the way the tactical pistol looks and handles, and the target rig has a similar (and much preferred by me) nose heavy balance. These are the final configurations for a while, I think.

Waiting on UPS like a little kid... clock watching.  ::) ;D

The gun in the picture without the red dot I'm guessing is the target gun, what is the length of the barrel? and how much is sticking out the front of the gun? reminds me of the Alecto Ultra.... also read you ported one of the guns to 4mm could you tell any difference by doing that? Seen elsewhere instead of adding to the piston to build up compression he dropped in an O-ring to do it, have you tried that on any of your pistols? if so which seems to work the best?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on September 09, 2013, 01:33:25 PM
It's a 10" barrel, sticks out 2.5". Only a bit faster than 8.75", but quite a bit quieter. 

I haven't tried stuffing with an o-ring. Both porting and stuffing make a difference, but nothing earth shattering... these guns perform as designed, so blueprinting doesn't produce drastic changes.

Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Plinkster68 on September 10, 2013, 01:40:01 AM
It's a 10" barrel, sticks out 2.5". Only a bit faster than 8.75", but quite a bit quieter. 

I haven't tried stuffing with an o-ring. Both porting and stuffing make a difference, but nothing earth shattering... these guns perform as designed, so blueprinting doesn't produce drastic changes.

Thanks for the info Stalwart... How much did you build up the face of the piston? How did you figure out what to add so it wouldn't bind when closed?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on September 10, 2013, 03:56:50 AM
It varies... all the numbers and methods are laid out in earlier posts.

Pulled the 120's upper, and began stripping for a custom setup for another member. More subtle differences shown: The aforementioned barrel clamp screws, and the indent I usually use for locating the front clamping set screw is a big hole. I'll have to use a larger screw, and it will interfere with the F pivot pin... which is fine, because it has no clips. I'll put a small clearance flat on it... and it ain't goin' nowhere.  ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Plinkster68 on September 14, 2013, 07:34:48 AM
So, any new mods in the works???
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on September 14, 2013, 12:47:18 PM
Oh yeah.

There's a bunch of stuff left to try, but I'm busy building a custom for someone, and working on a deal that will help pay for all this nonsense.

A LW barrel is coming for the girly gun... finally... so, there won't be a lot of new stuff for a bit. Her piece is top priority.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Plinkster68 on September 14, 2013, 05:49:12 PM
Oh yeah.

There's a bunch of stuff left to try, but I'm busy building a custom for someone, and working on a deal that will help pay for all this nonsense.

A LW barrel is coming for the girly gun... finally... so, there won't be a lot of new stuff for a bit. Her piece is top priority.

I may hit you up to do a barrel for me when you get time... I would rather have someone that's done one before than not do it... You cant go wrong with a LW match barrel!!! I'm waiting for Crosman to get some of the 12" LW barrels back in stock but if they hurry I may have to order straight from LW just hate to have to wait 4-6 weeks for their none stocked barrels...
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on September 15, 2013, 07:11:22 AM
I believe their in stock barrels are .630 OD. I haven't cut one yet, but I'm betting any extra wouldn't take long to shed. The nice thing about converting these to a front loading barrel is that you can leave a bunch of weight on it, right where you want it.

If you decide precisely where you prefer the balance point (I prefer more forward of the trigger's pivot, but staying close gives a lighter feel) the barrel can be shaped to give you what you need. It makes a surprisingly significant difference when precision is desired. If I could have the choice of only a fine trigger, or personalized balance... I'd grit my teeth, and squeeze hard.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Plinkster68 on September 15, 2013, 07:39:28 AM
I believe their in stock barrels are .630 OD. I haven't cut one yet, but I'm betting any extra wouldn't take long to shed. The nice thing about converting these to a front loading barrel is that you can leave a bunch of weight on it, right where you want it.

If you decide precisely where you prefer the balance point (I prefer more forward of the trigger's pivot, but staying close gives a lighter feel) the barrel can be shaped to give you what you need. It makes a surprisingly significant difference when precision is desired. If I could have the choice of only a fine trigger, or personalized balance... I'd grit my teeth, and squeeze hard.

Yep in stock is .630 OD so you would have to shave off right at 5mm to get down to the stock Crosman size 7/16 or 11mm. I don't know anything about a lathe but at one time was going to order that barrel and couldn't find anyone to cut it for me said their lathe couldn't handle it?? these where all guys that work on these guns on a daily basis one was Roy weid , and another guy in Canada, so I really don't know what the problem was but was told to go with the .490 OD that that work better as it wasn't as much to shave off as the .630 one...
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on September 15, 2013, 07:49:12 AM
I'm not in a position to argue with what other shops can or can't do, but I'd be stunned if LW barrels are anywhere near as hard as the Marlins I cut all the time. I've never heard of a gun barrel that would be problematic to cut... the last thing you want to put pressure in is a brittle cylinder.

If they told you that a smaller barrel has less to shave off, then they can shave them. If they can take off .100... then they can take off 1.00.

I have never seen a lathe that could take the length of a barrel and not take an OD that is multiples of .630.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on September 16, 2013, 06:19:41 AM
The 120 barrel is on the right. Neither has a great chamber, but the 120 can't shave the o-ring.

I have custom reamers coming, that should make a real difference.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on September 16, 2013, 09:30:12 AM
Eric,

I too am waiting on the results of your new chamber reamer.  I'm still using a seating tool with the 120 .22 barrel.  You may have to hang out a shingle in the future due to popular demand.

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on September 16, 2013, 06:36:00 PM
LOL!!!

Funny you should mention that. Up until about noon today, that was precisely the plan! In fact, I've invested a bunch of my time... and last night, all the money I was saving for stock, into tooling and supplies... for a done deal to make this happen.

Not sure what's going to happen now.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on September 20, 2013, 09:06:37 PM
The second 120 came in with slight surface rust on the lock parts. Nothing major, but enough to give a slight tinge to the parts.

The solution is simple: I powder coated the parts with Teflon. Rock hard, durable, and slick.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on September 20, 2013, 09:36:45 PM
The second 120 came in with slight surface rust on the lock parts. Nothing major, but enough to give a slight tinge to the parts.

The solution is simple: I powder coated the parts with Teflon. Rock hard, durable, and slick.

Looks very professional to me!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on September 20, 2013, 10:52:18 PM
Thanks. Small parts are a royal PITA, but this is worth it. It's designed to keep stack-able close tolerance parts (molds, etc) from sticking together, and is also used on shopping carts.

When tumbled to deburr/polish, and coated with this, they'll outlive us all... lubed or not.

We have a new S.O.P.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on September 22, 2013, 03:55:07 AM
I have been dry firing George's 120 frequently since the coating, without lube. I have no way to measure lock time (suggestions?), but I have fired my 17s many thousands of times. I can say this, without reservation:

Dry, his lock is at least as fast as any of mine... and they're well used and greasy as heck. The stuff works as advertised. I couldn't be happier with the results, and will be coating every gun that comes apart here. Just another "little" thing that helps add up to a better gun.



Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on September 22, 2013, 10:55:23 AM
I have been dry firing George's 120 frequently since the coating, without lube. I have no way to measure lock time (suggestions?), but I have fired my 17s many thousands of times. I can say this, without reservation:

Dry, his lock is at least as fast as any of mine... and they're well used and greasy as heck. The stuff works as advertised. I couldn't be happier with the results, and will be coating every gun that comes apart here. Just another "little" thing that helps add up to a better gun.

This is worse than waiting for Christmas! :o But it sounds worth the wait! Looking forward to shooting this and showing it off! ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on September 22, 2013, 11:36:04 AM
LOL... I did promise you a wait, and that it would be worth it. I'm making good on both!

Just be glad you didn't order the floating barrel option. This is gonna take a while.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on September 22, 2013, 01:40:06 PM
LOL... I did promise you a wait, and that it would be worth it. I'm making good on both!

Just be glad you didn't order the floating barrel option. This is gonna take a while.

I had no idea you could float these!  ???

Looking good! ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on September 24, 2013, 02:29:20 AM
I had no idea you could float these!  ???
The thinking was that if I didn't sell you all I could this time... you'd "need" another soon. Now I'm thinking that's silly... you'll need something anyway, to contrast with all that blue!  8)

Credit where credit is due:

1.Horse trading with silent_airman turned out precisely as he said it would.

2. Although he claims otherwise... I owe Mr. Melick.

Guys, Xisico is out of 120s, for the time being. You'd better hurry up and order 1 from Mi... oops, they're gone. I got the last 6 out of Iowa, as bases for customs for sale/trade. Stay tuned.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on September 25, 2013, 04:57:00 PM
Roughed in. This is going to be the girly gun's upper. As low, light and rigid as it gets. Just enough room to float the LW barrel. Countless sighting options, easily integrated... even room under the barrel for an integrated laser.

I can see cosmetic treatments from hyper light carbon fiber dust covers to Mannlicher type wood forearms.

It's where these are headed.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on September 25, 2013, 05:12:15 PM
Roughed in. This is going to be the girly gun's upper. As low, light and rigid as it gets. Just enough room to float the LW barrel. Countless sighting options, easily integrated... even room under the barrel for an integrated laser.

I can see cosmetic treatments from hyper light carbon fiber dust covers to Mannlicher type wood forearms.

It's where these are headed.

 :o Wow! (I think that about says it all!) ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on September 27, 2013, 03:12:58 PM
Here's yours, mocked up. Lot of options with these.

Messing around with ideas I can make from ABS sheet, laminated.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on September 27, 2013, 04:57:21 PM
Here's yours, mocked up. Lot of options with these.

Messing around with ideas I can make from ABS sheet, laminated.

 :o Sweet! I like the second photo very much!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on September 28, 2013, 01:33:19 PM
Yeah, T likes it too. This one is what's been in my head for a while. But, when hers is done, and I twin ours, you will have style options. Subtle, but yours.

I'm looking to keep weight down for CoG purposes, ABS should be a good balance of weight and strength in this app.

The reamers hit the road yesterday, from Canada. It's coming together.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on October 02, 2013, 11:20:22 PM
More credit where credit is due: Sean Pero makes a sweet reamer.

 8)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on October 06, 2013, 05:47:12 PM
Just pulled off my first choke.  ;D

It copies the dimensions of the LW, but as I cut a trumpet shape before shrinking the sleeve on, it tapers. It's not as abrupt.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on October 06, 2013, 05:54:46 PM
Just pulled off my first choke.  ;D

It copies the dimensions of the LW, but as I cut a trumpet shape before shrinking the sleeve on, it tapers. It's not as abrupt.

Eric,
For the big question, how does it preform at 10 meters?  I read each of you posts with great interest.  I should be saving my pennies.

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on October 06, 2013, 07:30:50 PM
That is the big question... and I'm not the guy to answer it. I'm not as steady as I once was, and that's not getting better with age.

I need a test pilot for these... someone who is methodical and willing to document well. Someone who has the means to measure groups properly.... so...

YGM

It slugs out beautifully... the slightest engagement in the bottom of the grooves... and good, distinct engraving.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on October 07, 2013, 06:45:32 AM
That is the big question... and I'm not the guy to answer it. I'm not as steady as I once was, and that's not getting better with age.

I need a test pilot for these... someone who is methodical and willing to document well. Someone who has the means to measure groups properly.... so...

YGM

It slugs out beautifully... the slightest engagement in the bottom of the grooves... and good, distinct engraving.

Where do I sign? Sir!
BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on October 07, 2013, 08:14:31 PM
I'll have my people contact your people...  ;)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on October 09, 2013, 09:50:48 PM
After 8 hours in the tumbler, and a careful coat of Teflon... you get slick as snot. It's a pain, but well worth it. Anything that goes through here gets it, from now on.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: althawk on October 10, 2013, 11:02:43 PM
Huh, I would have thought a rubberized coating on the actual trigger.  Many a time, I've thought about that plasti-dip people sometimes use on tools...

Also by what means are you able to apply teflon? I've always assumed it was something us mere mortals can't diy.

Wish the factory parts looked that sweet...
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on October 10, 2013, 11:26:25 PM
It's a powder coating. Standard gun, oven, etc.

I do have a rubberized powder they call "armor". I never thought of trying it on a trigger... hmmm. Not a bad idea.

It wasn't cheap, but with good media the tumbler does well what would take forever with needle files and abrasives. You'd have to handle the parts to see just how well it works, but the reflections in the pic give you some idea. You'd have to shoot the guns to see the result... it amazed me.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Plinkster68 on October 17, 2013, 03:50:48 AM
So, any new mods come about yet?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on October 18, 2013, 06:18:24 AM
Nothing I can take a pic of yet. Mostly refinements to the custom uppers... and I need help. I'm working on breech blocks, and one type would allow incorporating a guide for pellet pens. I need the max OD of the first inch of both .177 and .22 Air Venturi's pens... and of the seating tool in their kit.

Been slow cooking a 2078 for months, it just went in the tumbler, after a bunch of smoothing.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on October 26, 2013, 01:14:54 PM
120 with the breech's face milled square, and the full Teflon treatment.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on October 26, 2013, 01:43:45 PM
120 with the breech's face milled square, and the full Teflon treatment.

Looks awesome! ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on November 04, 2013, 12:55:13 PM
:)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on November 04, 2013, 01:07:54 PM
:)

Looks like somebody has been very busy! ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on November 04, 2013, 01:27:01 PM
Indeed!

Santa will have some really sweet 17s to distribute this year. I forgot to get pics before boxing them up, but the guns turned out nicely. My co-conspirator and I came up with a good recipe here... we're offering (soon) a real value. Heart of gold, no frills.

I'm really proud of these.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on November 06, 2013, 03:14:31 PM
Eric,

I'll waiting for these to become available, not too patiently.  I have refrained from purchasing a nice clean HW-45.  Will you have barrels available for the P17s separately? BTW, MM has posted that he has some barrels available.  Can you cut, machine, and, choke them?

I have just received my 5th P17, it will make a Christmas gift for someone, maybe a great nephew, if one of them can behave.

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on November 06, 2013, 04:03:19 PM
I'm pretty sure he'll take a pre-order. Call him and check, though.

They are slated for pickup today, so it won't be long. I can say... whoever buys #1 will get $pecial treatment in my shop.

I'm also curious about those barrels. Can do, on the fitting... grab one, and we'll play.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on November 06, 2013, 04:58:06 PM
I'm pretty sure he'll take a pre-order. Call him and check, though.
Eric,

I pre-ordered #1 today, check goes out in the A.M.  Can you email me the specifics on #1?  Heck, it's close enough to Christmas.

BobH.


They are slated for pickup today, so it won't be long. I can say... whoever buys #1 will get $pecial treatment in my shop.


Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: mikeiniowa on November 06, 2013, 06:56:53 PM
the match barrels that are coming could be used but would need to be cut to length and turned down on a lathe for them to fit...
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on November 07, 2013, 06:41:48 AM
Thanks, Bob.  ;D Looking forward to your impressions of it.

Mike, if the barrels are a full 60cm, we can get 3 pistol barrels, that go past the "compensator", from each blank. I'm very interested in offering drop in match grade stuff. As soon as you know these are good to go, please let us know.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: mikeiniowa on November 07, 2013, 06:47:19 AM
the blanks have been ordered with choke so that might affect things..I won't be able to do the turning down and cutting as I just don't have time...
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on November 10, 2013, 05:37:41 PM
The way I see it, we have accurate barrels and a trustworthy and reliable supplier. If we can't take it and run from there... we belong on a needlepoint forum.

You get 'em for us, we'll chew 'em up.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on November 13, 2013, 06:07:27 PM
Guys, you heard it here first:

"Flying Dragon Special Edition pistol by Stalwart

Beeman P-17 Stage I

Mission: Exploit, fully, a superb and time tested design... cost effectively. Provide reliable and consistent performance in an easy to maintain package. Give the buyer, if desired, a solid base from which to build a fine custom.

This pistol features an adjustable 2 stage trigger, refined and tuned to allow easy adjustment of the second stage engagement between training and target modes.

The lock parts have been tumbled (2 stage) to de-burr and polish them, then given a careful coat of Teflon bearing, baked on powder coating. This prevents corrosion, speeds up an already quick lock time, and insures consistency. It also requires a tiny fraction of the lubricant typically used.

The chambers are cut using quality custom reamers by Sean Pero. It makes a real difference.

These improvements, combined with the benefit of easy and inexpensive to replace O-ring seals, solid construction, and good ergonomics make the Stage I a real value... right out of the box."

Mike and I have been cooking this for a while. He will make it official soon.

I'm making this official right now: My Stage I Beeman and Xisico custom pistols will only be available at FDAR.

In my last call with Mike, today (after he tested a couple), he said "We are gonna have fun with these." I'm betting he's right.

Stay tuned...

 
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on November 13, 2013, 06:09:58 PM
Guys, you heard it here first:

"Flying Dragon Special Edition pistol by Stalwart

Beeman P-17 Stage I

Mission: Exploit, fully, a superb and time tested design... cost effectively. Provide reliable and consistent performance in an easy to maintain package. Give the buyer, if desired, a solid base from which to build a fine custom.

This pistol features an adjustable 2 stage trigger, refined and tuned to allow easy adjustment of the second stage engagement between training and target modes.

The lock parts have been tumbled (2 stage) to de-burr and polish them, then given a careful coat of Teflon bearing, baked on powder coating. This prevents corrosion, speeds up an already quick lock time, and insures consistency. It also requires a tiny fraction of the lubricant typically used.

The chambers are cut using quality custom reamers by Sean Pero. It makes a real difference.

These improvements, combined with the benefit of easy and inexpensive to replace O-ring seals, solid construction, and good ergonomics make the Stage I a real value... right out of the box."

Mike and I have been cooking this for a while. He will make it official soon.

I'm making this official right now: My Stage I Beeman and Xisico custom pistols will only be available at FDAR.

In my last call with Mike, today (after he tested a couple), he said "We are gonna have fun with these." I'm betting he's right.

Stay tuned...

I hear that! Awesome job!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: mikeiniowa on November 13, 2013, 09:50:59 PM
I have the pistols on hand and they are sweet. Darn things put the pellet through the same hole in the target all the time, thought I was missing the target when sighting in...trigger breaks sweet so they should shoot for almost anyone.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Wood Boats on November 14, 2013, 01:02:52 PM
... whoever buys #1 will get $pecial treatment in my shop.

Mike told me this morning that I had purchased number two.   :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(  I saw this thread and the announcements and ordered around 7:30ish this morning.  (received shipping info at 9:45, gotta like Mike)

I knew I should have logged in last night.

I have never laid eyes on a p-17 but have wanted a quality pistol for quite some time. 

Could we have an owners thread as I am sure I will have questions and others will most likely?

Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on November 14, 2013, 01:32:41 PM
Thank you, Steve! I think you made a very good choice for a 1st pistol. I'll do all I can to make sure of that.

An owner's thread is a good idea... I'll set it up.

Yeah, you gotta like Mike... he really leaves you little choice in the matter.  ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: mikeiniowa on November 14, 2013, 06:35:27 PM
was busy at the bencj or I would have been quicker on the shipping info...sorry.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Wood Boats on November 15, 2013, 09:46:21 AM
was busy at the bencj or I would have been quicker on the shipping info...sorry.

I understand how these things can happen.  You have been pretty good on everything else so I can let it slide this time.

Once again I wish to thank you for the continued excellent service.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on November 15, 2013, 02:25:37 PM
You guys crack me up.

I'd bet a pistol that I can prove, within 5 toll free calls, that Mike's worst ever day of CS is superior to most company's finest hours.

Any suckers out there?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: RatRacer on November 15, 2013, 02:28:01 PM
You guys crack me up.

I'd bet a pistol that I can prove, within 5 toll free calls, that Mike's worst ever day of CS is superior to most company's finest hours.

Any suckers out there?

You have Comcast too? :)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on November 15, 2013, 02:31:11 PM
LOL!!

That was gonna be my second call....
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on November 19, 2013, 02:03:51 AM
Guys, the sleepers are selling. Now that this thing looks more like a conspiracy, I'm going to be dropping some tips in here for our SE brethren, and show a couple low buck mods I'm working on just for them.

Here's one for consistency: If you limit the stroke by setting a screw in the nose, and adjusting it to interfere before the piston ring reaches the intake hole... and pull the auto safety (convert to manual safety, my prefered mode), so you can hold the trigger while opening... you can cause the gun to intake through the exhaust. The ring will last much longer, seal better, and hold single digit ESs for an amazingly long time. I can't think of a cheaper power adjuster than this.

If you open it just enough to put a drop of oil in the port, before cocking, it will draw the oil down into the valve, then expel any excess with the first cycle.

I have run the foot long this way for quite a while, with a #117 (fat), 75 duro ring, and just about the time it used to need a ring... it had instead gained 10fps.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on November 19, 2013, 08:52:42 AM
Guys, the sleepers are selling. Now that this thing looks more like a conspiracy, I'm going to be dropping some tips in here for our SE brethren, and show a couple low buck mods I'm working on just for them.

Here's one for consistency: If you limit the stroke by setting a screw in the nose, and adjusting it to interfere before the piston ring reaches the intake hole... and pull the auto safety (convert to manual safety, my prefered mode), so you can hold the trigger while opening... you can cause the gun to intake through the exhaust. The ring will last much longer, seal better, and hold single digit ESs for an amazingly long time. I can't think of a cheaper power adjuster than this.

If you open it just enough to put a drop of oil in the port, before cocking, it will not so good the oil down into the valve, then expel any excess with the first cycle.

I have run the foot long this way for quite a while, with a #117 (fat), 75 duro ring, and just about the time it used to need a ring... it had instead gained 10fps.

Eric,
Can you tell use more about bypassing the safety?  Is there an internal noise while cocking the pistol with the air entering the pistol thru the breech?  Is there any downside to this conversion other that the loss of the automatic safety? 

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on November 19, 2013, 09:45:40 AM
Guys, the sleepers are selling. Now that this thing looks more like a conspiracy, I'm going to be dropping some tips in here for our SE brethren, and show a couple low buck mods I'm working on just for them.

Here's one for consistency: If you limit the stroke by setting a screw in the nose, and adjusting it to interfere before the piston ring reaches the intake hole... and pull the auto safety (convert to manual safety, my prefered mode), so you can hold the trigger while opening... you can cause the gun to intake through the exhaust. The ring will last much longer, seal better, and hold single digit ESs for an amazingly long time. I can't think of a cheaper power adjuster than this.

If you open it just enough to put a drop of oil in the port, before cocking, it will not so good the oil down into the valve, then expel any excess with the first cycle.

I have run the foot long this way for quite a while, with a #117 (fat), 75 duro ring, and just about the time it used to need a ring... it had instead gained 10fps.

Eric,
Can you tell use more about bypassing the safety?  Is there an internal noise while cocking the pistol with the air entering the pistol thru the breech?  Is there any downside to this conversion other that the loss of the automatic safety? 

BobH.

I am a complete klutz when it comes to stuff like that. :o I can change barrels in a 2240, but modding is like trying to speak Chinese to me. (On a Chinese gun, no less!) ::) Not saying I can't learn over time and with help, but I am not tearing into my Stage 1. Maybe my stock P17, but not the new gun.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on November 19, 2013, 12:37:39 PM
The first thing I do to these is to pull the auto safety's pin, open the hood, and pour it and it's spring out. I was raised to never trust a "safety" device, and to check any "auto" functions. My R10 is auto, but as it requires it's own routine, unique compared to firearms, I learned to deal with it smoothly. Took a while... and the 17s don't have the mid cycle danger point... so only the R10 still has one. YMMV.
No downside. If you hold the trigger as you cock, it dumps about 1/2 way closed.

Pic in #73. Holler if you want to try #117 rings.... and, YGM.

G, that's what stockers are for!  ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on November 20, 2013, 02:15:14 PM
Turns out Boats can drive a camera! Took this for the raffle... I'm humbled a bit. Knew I was a hack... just didn't know how much of one...  ;D

Thanks, Steve!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 + XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Wood Boats on November 20, 2013, 05:44:30 PM
Turns out Boats can drive a camera! Took this for the raffle... I'm humbled a bit. Knew I was a hack... just didn't know how much of one...  ;D

Thanks, Steve!

Not bad for a half blind old guy.    :o
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on November 24, 2013, 04:18:29 AM
I have 1 more day entirely free for R&D, and had some fun today.

Many plastics can be dyed or at least tinted. Had an LE idea I wanted to try, so I tried doing a grip in scarlet (only color I had). 17s join many RC suspension parts in that they won't take the slightest tints. Now we know...lol.

I'm starting to proto stuff for the eventual Stage II upgrade, and wondered what you guys would like to see as standard features. As they will all be upgrades to the Stage I guns (and can be retrofitted), they will concentrate solely on the upper.

I have some .177 barrel coming Mon, that I'll use to test for speed vs length. I'll post #s asap, but have paying work coming in Mon as well... business first.

I especially need to know if a sight upgrade would be preferable to a system that would allow the use of quality aftermarket sights. I'm thinking that an XL match barrel would be easy to make a front sight base for. I like the idea of inserts, for plenty of options.

What do you guys think would make for the best options in sights?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on November 24, 2013, 05:04:17 AM
Pulled a tube, and found precisely what I hoped to... simple o-ring under the crimp.

Strokers and MSPs will be quite straightforward to build. It's going to get diverse here.

Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on November 24, 2013, 12:18:40 PM
I have 1 more day entirely free for R&D, and had some fun today.

Many plastics can be dyed or at least tinted. Had an LE idea I wanted to try, so I tried doing a grip in scarlet (only color I had). 17s join many RC suspension parts in that they won't take the slightest tints. Now we know...lol.

I'm starting to proto stuff for the eventual Stage II upgrade, and wondered what you guys would like to see as standard features. As they will all be upgrades to the Stage I guns (and can be retrofitted), they will concentrate solely on the upper.

I have some .177 barrel coming Mon, that I'll use to test for speed vs length. I'll post #s asap, but have paying work coming in Mon as well... business first.

I especially need to know if a sight upgrade would be preferable to a system that would allow the use of quality aftermarket sights. I'm thinking that an XL match barrel would be easy to make a front sight base for. I like the idea of inserts, for plenty of options.

What do you guys think would make for the best options in sights?

I think a tactical themed version would be nice. Picatinny rails along the upper, and below, just ahead of the trigger. Coat all the sliver parts. Maybe even go for OD green or earth tone finishes. Maybe the upper light earth toned, with the lower either black or OD green. Or go all black ops and make it a uniform matte black. Where I am shooting in my basement, red or green lasers work very well, plus I'd like to mount red dots sights or even reflex. As for open sights, the 3 dot system works very well. Another variant could have rear peep sights and a hooded front sight. Go for the Olympic look. I could imagine quite a few styles. 8)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on November 24, 2013, 04:40:56 PM
I could imagine quite a few styles. 8)
Yeah me too... and I have some Limited Edition ideas that are along the same lines.

The Stage II upgrades have to be confined to the upper only, though. I want to give the Stage I owners something significant that can be added, by them, to their guns without fuss. I'm only certain of a longer match barrel (front loader), and as versatile a sight system (or sight mount) as possible.

The barrels will have 11mm ends, to allow all the cool Crosman stuff (TKO, etc.) to be used. Later, I want to look into making insert type F sights, and possibly add an air stripper to the lineup.

Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: oneied on November 24, 2013, 04:50:02 PM
I like the idea of a TKO.  Think it would look cool and easy that POP
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on November 24, 2013, 05:14:14 PM
It all sounds cool. Looking forward to Stage II!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on November 28, 2013, 07:13:12 AM
Here's the current thinking: The smartest way to put a match barrel in these is to go with the LW for the Crosman 1701, cut down to 9.5" and chambered for wadcutters.

I'm also thinking about making a front sight block that can be slid back, if needed, to clear an LDC. The pic is something like I'm thinking, and I could make any kind of insert wanted. A block could also be made with dovetails, to take various aftermarket hooded set ups.

There are good options for a rear sight, and I'm going to try a block in place of the stocker to simply bolt one on. I've been working with the b3 type, to see if I could come up with something inexpensive, but it would require an offset latch knob, or a flipped latch. It would add some sight radius, though. Is anyone else thinking of better sights for these?

The Meisters came in and my Stage I seems to really like them. I have a lot of seasoning to do, and it hits well enough already to make that fun.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on November 28, 2013, 12:37:24 PM
Here's the current thinking: The smartest way to put a match barrel in these is to go with the LW for the Crosman 1701, cut down to 9.5" and chambered for wadcutters.

I'm also thinking about making a front sight block that can be slid back, if needed, to clear an LDC. The pic is something like I'm thinking, and I could make any kind of insert wanted. A block could also be made with dovetails, to take various aftermarket hooded set ups.

There are good options for a rear sight, and I'm going to try a block in place of the stocker to simply bolt one on. I've been working with the b3 type, to see if I could come up with something inexpensive, but it would require an offset latch knob, or a flipped latch. It would add some sight radius, though. Is anyone else thinking of better sights for these?

The Meisters came in and my Stage I seems to really like them. I have a lot of seasoning to do, and it hits well enough already to make that fun.

Have you considered a Williams, either notched or peep sights? I would certainly want a TKO with a front sight post. Maybe that would be easier than coming up with an exotic front sight. I would imagine cheaper since a TKO goes for $44.

I just ordered Meister pistols for the competition.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on November 28, 2013, 08:24:43 PM
The Williams R sights are what I'm going to cut the block for. It will bolt up into the stock base.

There are so many choices, I'm thinking it would be a mistake to try to offer a single one. I'm thinking Stage II should be set up to allow choices there, not make them.

It's a ways off, but I can't help thinking about it. When you shoot one with a long barrel, you'll see why I like them so much. Between the balance and the sight radius, they'll be easy to shoot well.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on November 28, 2013, 08:33:13 PM
The Williams R sights are what I'm going to cut the block for. It will bolt up into the stock base.

There are so many choices, I'm thinking it would be a mistake to try to offer a single one. I'm thinking Stage II should be set up to allow choices there, not make them.

It's a ways off, but I can't help thinking about it. When you shoot one with a long barrel, you'll see why I like them so much. Between the balance and the sight radius, they'll be easy to shoot well.

I will be watching this closely!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on November 29, 2013, 11:15:58 PM
I just figured out a way to make the FO sights a lot easier to see clearly. I pushed the filament out just a bit, put the tiniest bit of CA on the ends (toothpick) and pushed it back in. When it had dried, I cut the ends cleanly off with a sharp knife.

Melting the ends, as they do, ruins the clarity and color. This makes them crisp and clear... much easier to focus.


Edit: Seems this is not uncommon. Apparently, this is necessary with other sights as well... WTH?? How much can be saved by nearly defeating the purpose of enhancing precision? Stage I guns will get this before leaving here, from now on.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on November 30, 2013, 12:55:15 AM
My S1 was shooting low enough that the R sight had to be jacked high enough the nut was 1/2 way off... and it flopped around. 2 layers of beverage can in the barrel clamp brought POI up enough to allow me to set the sight down to nearly the bottom. Looks better, feels better, and with a drop of thread locker on the sight's nut, it's good to go.


It just occurred to me that a solid, simple non adjustable sight system could be used on these, if the barrel was set up to be adjusted to POA.

We're just getting started here.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on November 30, 2013, 12:35:19 PM
My S1 was shooting low enough that the R sight had to be jacked high enough the nut was 1/2 way off... and it flopped around. 2 layers of beverage can in the barrel clamp brought POI up enough to allow me to set the sight down to nearly the bottom. Looks better, feels better, and with a drop of thread locker on the sight's nut, it's good to go.


It just occurred to me that a solid, simple non adjustable sight system could be used on these, if the barrel was set up to be adjusted to POA.

We're just getting started here.

What about installing a screw that can make adjustment more variable and quicker?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on November 30, 2013, 12:53:53 PM
Yup. A simple set screw in the top would allow you to loosen the clamp, adjust the set screw precisely, and tighten the clamp. A few mins to make, a minute to adjust.

I'm now working on a system for the custom uppers that will adjust side to side as well... and may incorporate thumbscrews. For indoor 5-10M, simple set screw adjustments would be enough. Done right, my idea would hold zero under far more abuse than a sight ever could. Simple blades could be made to interchange, if desired.

It's worth the R&D, and as I'm going nuts waiting on lathe parts...
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on November 30, 2013, 01:06:22 PM
Yup. A simple set screw in the top would allow you to loosen the clamp, adjust the set screw precisely, and tighten the clamp. A few mins to make, a minute to adjust.

I'm now working on a system for the custom uppers that will adjust side to side as well... and may incorporate thumbscrews. For indoor 5-10M, simple set screw adjustments would be enough. Done right, my idea would hold zero under far more abuse than a sight ever could. Simple blades could be made to interchange, if desired.

It's worth the R&D, and as I'm going nuts waiting on lathe parts...

You're just nuts...nuts for airguns! :P Sounds like a good plan!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on November 30, 2013, 11:53:11 PM
You might be right... It may be a pre-existing condition.

 :P

Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on December 01, 2013, 04:16:18 PM
Fun with Teflon:
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: oneied on December 01, 2013, 04:20:49 PM
Whats up with the breech?  Will the Teflon at the end of the piston raise the FPS or just smoothness? Or is the piston made from Teflon?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on December 01, 2013, 04:32:10 PM
Whats up with the breech?  Will the Teflon at the end of the piston raise the FPS or just smoothness? Or is the piston made from Teflon?

Is there something wrong with the breech?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: oneied on December 01, 2013, 04:36:43 PM
Whats up with the breech?  Will the Teflon at the end of the piston raise the FPS or just smoothness? Or is the piston made from Teflon?

Is there something wrong with the breech?

No. Just wasnt sure what it is for.  Looks like it has a MRod magizine
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on December 01, 2013, 04:39:11 PM
Whats up with the breech?  Will the Teflon at the end of the piston raise the FPS or just smoothness? Or is the piston made from Teflon?

Is there something wrong with the breech?

No. Just wasnt sure what it is for.  Looks like it has a MRod magizine

Hmm, that does look like an MRod mag. ???
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on December 01, 2013, 04:51:00 PM
Rob, the piston is coated on the sides only, as an experiment to see if eliminating the abrasion will keep the lube cleaner.

The receivers are from early and late 60Cs. The repeater will be my first PCP, soon.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on December 01, 2013, 04:53:02 PM
Rob, the piston is coated on the sides only, as an experiment to see if eliminating the abrasion will keep the lube cleaner.

The receivers are from early and late 60Cs. The repeater will be my first PCP, soon.

Wow, that really looks cool! 8)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on December 01, 2013, 04:56:16 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on December 02, 2013, 04:24:15 AM
Guys, I found out, the same way everyone else did, that the S1 will not be raffled this month. PA got the slot.

I will honor the 2nd chance barrel giveaway, meant to go along with the pistol, this month as described in the owner's thread.

When the pistol raffles (it will be a "first 14" gun), I will put a second barrel up as another "second chance for the first 14". I'd like to see someone take both at once... it would make a nice kit.

:)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: oneied on December 02, 2013, 08:43:22 AM
What did we have to do again for the second chance barrel?  Do you know which barrel it is gonna be?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on December 02, 2013, 09:10:05 AM
The person who comes closest to winning the raffle gets a Xisico 120D .22 barrel, fully prepped to fit any P3 or clone.

Your odds are really good!

 ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: ezman604 on December 02, 2013, 09:28:43 AM
Sorry there was a miscommunication somewhere. But I don't recall reserving December for this item. Will GLADLY offer it for a GTA raffle item as soon as I have it in my grubby hands.
:)
And I'm a bit unclear on the extra barrel also. Does the WINNER of the said raffle also get the second barrel? Or is this a separate deal?
Just trying to eliminate any future communication issues.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on December 02, 2013, 09:34:32 AM
It's a separate thing, for owners of Stage I pistols only. The details are in the owner's thread.

The raffle# closest to the raffle winner's gets it.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: oneied on December 02, 2013, 09:36:38 AM
So technically we could win both then right?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on December 02, 2013, 09:42:48 AM
Yup. I figured a .22 barrel for your Stage I would be nice enough to risk $5 for, but to see someone win another pistol too, would have been pretty cool.

I'll put up another barrel when the pistol is confirmed as a prize.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: airgunwarriors on December 03, 2013, 11:20:41 PM
There are a few 17 builds in my near future, and some will be rather extreme. Started on one that will prove to be mild compared to later tries. Comments and suggestions are more than appreciated... and if anyone has done a mod that isn't already all over the net, you are welcome to post it here. Here goes...

Milled off the fake slide release and the sights in prep for a full length Picatinny rail, and cut a Marlin Micro Groove .22 barrel blank to 10 inches.

Wow, you got my attention big-time!

This looks like absolute fun!

I would love to get one of these to work on making better myself and/or modifying!

Found this because of the Post over at FDAR.

I could get more shooting in with one of these!

Definitely want to learn more on this Air-Pistol, sure does have a lot of character!

Respectfully,

Al.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on December 04, 2013, 01:31:06 AM
C'mon aboard, Al!

If I may suggest? Call Mike, then order twice as much ammo for it as you think you'll need. This way, you won't end up dipping into your other gun's stashes while you wait for delivery on more pistol ammo.

 ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: oneied on December 04, 2013, 01:34:07 AM
C'mon aboard, Al!

If I may suggest? Call Mike, then order twice as much ammo for it as you think you'll need. This way, you won't end up dipping into your other gun's stashes while you wait for delivery on more pistol ammo.

 ;D

Aint that the truth.  Im still waiting on this postal match! Any final word?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on December 08, 2013, 08:10:49 AM
Already ready to go, Rob?  ;D I know the feeling.

When the weather gets nice, I want to host a long range bench rest postal match... I'd have 1/2 a chance there. It's a lot of fun, in a frustrating kind of way.

Another S1 is leaded up, and I'm told it loves Destroyer EXs. 9s and 10s @ 8M. Sounds like a nightmare for light pests.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on December 08, 2013, 12:37:13 PM
C'mon aboard, Al!

If I may suggest? Call Mike, then order twice as much ammo for it as you think you'll need. This way, you won't end up dipping into your other gun's stashes while you wait for delivery on more pistol ammo.

 ;D

Aint that the truth.  Im still waiting on this postal match! Any final word?

I have been 'volunteered' to referee the match, but I have zero experience and even less knowledge on how to do this, so I am stepping back to allow somebody who knows how to do this to step forward.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on December 09, 2013, 07:07:14 AM
That's all up to the owner's group. I don't see a big hurry here, and I won't have time to do one for a while. I have the prizes covered... best I can do for now.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on December 09, 2013, 08:10:43 AM
Hey George,

How are those Miester pellets doing in your S.E.? 

About the first S. E. match, There are a set of 5 meter pistol match rules elsewhere on this site.  George, I think you are a good choice to over see the match.  Since it is a S. E. match only, there will not be a lot of folks competing.  I would recommend that we post our targets on a "S. E. Match" thread. and send a larger copy of the target to whom is officiating the match.  I'm certainly not an expert on posting photos on this site, but mine have had to be low pixel to post, lower that can be easily scored. 

BTW, when we post our targets, we should have scored them ourselves, and have the header filled out.  This way we all get to see the targets and scores.

It is not my desire to design this match or control it, I just want to see it go forward. I was hoping that there might be some discussion and group consent.  Before anyone asks, "I do not want to oversee this match."  My goal is to shoot competitively.   

I really appreciate Eric sponsoring  this match.  Eric feels that he hasn't the time to officiate the match, hopefully one of you will step up and volunteer.

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on December 09, 2013, 10:44:11 AM
Hey George,

How are those Miester pellets doing in your S.E.? 

About the first S. E. match, There are a set of 5 meter pistol match rules elsewhere on this site.  George, I think you are a good choice to over see the match.  Since it is a S. E. match only, there will not be a lot of folks competing.  I would recommend that we post our targets on a "S. E. Match" thread. and send a larger copy of the target to whom is officiating the match.  I'm certainly not an expert on posting photos on this site, but mine have had to be low pixel to post, lower that can be easily scored. 

BTW, when we post our targets, we should have scored them ourselves, and have the header filled out.  This way we all get to see the targets and scores.

It is not my desire to design this match or control it, I just want to see it go forward. I was hoping that there might be some discussion and group consent.  Before anyone asks, "I do not want to oversee this match."  My goal is to shoot competitively.   

I really appreciate Eric sponsoring  this match.  Eric feels that he hasn't the time to officiate the match, hopefully one of you will step up and volunteer.

BobH.

I haven't done any shooting to speak of lately. It's hard to hold a pistol steady while coughing up a lung lol. Seems like I've been sick for the last month. I'll give this some thought. I have the time to do this, just don't want to make a mistake because of ignorance.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on December 09, 2013, 11:09:57 AM
George, if you're gonna die, just hurry up and do it.  :P  It would have to be better than the last month...lol.

Whoever does this will be teaching us all. This will be a select group of pretty reasonable folks (after all, they bought total sleepers). I figure we can forgive the first official anything... then hang the second at the slightest provocation.

I'll take my turn as soon as I can do it right.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on December 09, 2013, 11:18:34 AM
George, if you're gonna die, just hurry up and do it.  :P  It would have to be better than the last month...lol.

Whoever does this will be teaching us all. This will be a select group of pretty reasonable folks (after all, they bought total sleepers). I figure we can forgive the first official anything... then hang the second at the slightest provocation.

I'll take my turn as soon as I can do it right.

Somebody just shoot me! :P
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on December 09, 2013, 11:24:12 AM
OK... I'll try, but you'll have to sit veeewy still.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on December 09, 2013, 11:26:47 AM
OK... I'll try, but you'll have to sit veeewy still.

There's no wind here, but it is snowing. Just have to calculate your hold over lol
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on December 09, 2013, 11:36:40 AM
Bad news... the trajectory needed will pass orbit... and it will just wander off into space.

Can anyone closer help poor George out here?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on December 09, 2013, 11:41:17 AM
Bad news... the trajectory needed will pass orbit... and it will just wander off into space.

Can anyone closer help poor George out here?

Just leave your gun, preferably a nice PCP with full support just in case I miss and need to recharge the gun. Hmm, I hear FX has a nice lineup. Plenty of power to get the job done! ;) ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on December 15, 2013, 03:52:26 PM
Guys, Mike is now offering 17s, both SEs and inspected stockers, on his site. I have some unsolicited (by anyone) advice for you.

If an SE is a bit rich for your purposes, I highly recommend you buy a stocker from Mike. I have handled many 17s now, and can tell you that a substandard pistol can almost always be discovered within a few shots. The direct tactile connection to the power plant allows you to feel any anomalies that can't be heard.

The current 17s are better than the old ones, but if you plan to make one a gift... putting it in Mike's hands, first, could make all the difference in the experience.

Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stonykill on December 15, 2013, 05:28:43 PM
Guys, Mike is now offering 17s, both SEs and inspected stockers, on his site. I have some unsolicited (by anyone) advice for you.

If an SE is a bit rich for your purposes, I highly recommend you buy a stocker from Mike. I have handled many 17s now, and can tell you that a substandard pistol can almost always be discovered within a few shots. The direct tactile connection to the power plant allows you to feel any anomalies that can't be heard.

The current 17s are better than the old ones, but if you plan to make one a gift... putting it in Mike's hands, first, could make all the difference in the experience.

 I am fairly new to the site and have no idea who Mike is or what his site is. Who is he? PM me if needed. Thanks!
   I'm enjoying my stock so far P17. Nice little weapon
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on December 15, 2013, 05:33:22 PM
Guys, Mike is now offering 17s, both SEs and inspected stockers, on his site. I have some unsolicited (by anyone) advice for you.

If an SE is a bit rich for your purposes, I highly recommend you buy a stocker from Mike. I have handled many 17s now, and can tell you that a substandard pistol can almost always be discovered within a few shots. The direct tactile connection to the power plant allows you to feel any anomalies that can't be heard.

The current 17s are better than the old ones, but if you plan to make one a gift... putting it in Mike's hands, first, could make all the difference in the experience.

 I am fairly new to the site and have no idea who Mike is or what his site is. Who is he? PM me if needed. Thanks!
   I'm enjoying my stock so far P17. Nice little weapon

Mike Melick, airgun tuner extraordinaire. Here's his site. http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/ (http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: oneied on December 15, 2013, 05:35:13 PM
Guys, Mike is now offering 17s, both SEs and inspected stockers, on his site. I have some unsolicited (by anyone) advice for you.

If an SE is a bit rich for your purposes, I highly recommend you buy a stocker from Mike. I have handled many 17s now, and can tell you that a substandard pistol can almost always be discovered within a few shots. The direct tactile connection to the power plant allows you to feel any anomalies that can't be heard.

The current 17s are better than the old ones, but if you plan to make one a gift... putting it in Mike's hands, first, could make all the difference in the experience.

 I am fairly new to the site and have no idea who Mike is or what his site is. Who is he? PM me if needed. Thanks!
   I'm enjoying my stock so far P17. Nice little weapon

Go to the top of the page click GTA Mall and click Flying Dragon Air Rifles
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stonykill on December 15, 2013, 06:08:38 PM
Guys, Mike is now offering 17s, both SEs and inspected stockers, on his site. I have some unsolicited (by anyone) advice for you.

If an SE is a bit rich for your purposes, I highly recommend you buy a stocker from Mike. I have handled many 17s now, and can tell you that a substandard pistol can almost always be discovered within a few shots. The direct tactile connection to the power plant allows you to feel any anomalies that can't be heard.

The current 17s are better than the old ones, but if you plan to make one a gift... putting it in Mike's hands, first, could make all the difference in the experience.

 I am fairly new to the site and have no idea who Mike is or what his site is. Who is he? PM me if needed. Thanks!
   I'm enjoying my stock so far P17. Nice little weapon

Go to the top of the page click GTA Mall and click Flying Dragon Air Rifles

 thanks!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: airgunwarriors on December 20, 2013, 03:12:48 PM
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005UGIPUQ/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005UGIPUQ/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

For my Flying Dragon Air-Rifles P17!

Should stand-up to opening and closing the breech, I HOPE!

What are you all using, if anything?

Regards,

Al.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on December 20, 2013, 03:27:44 PM
It should work well for you. Did you go for the Stage I?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: airgunwarriors on December 20, 2013, 03:40:52 PM
It should work well for you. Did you go for the Stage I?

Ordering the FDAR entry Level one and then will perform all of my own modifications and improvements. This will be my very first Air-Gun to do such projects with and I cannot wait!

What Mike does to the $55.00 one is great and will get me by until I can get working on it myself.

The UTG RED-DOT SIGHT that I bought specifically for use on the Flying Dragon P17 is on the way.

I will send Mike a check for the P17 on the 29th!

Man, there are soooooooo many up-grades and modifications you can do with this P17, it has got my head spinning, which is a great thing! ;D

When I start working on it, you'll know, ha! ha! ;D

As you will be hearing a lot from me for advice!

Respectfully,

Al.


Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: airgunwarriors on December 20, 2013, 03:43:33 PM
It should work well for you. Did you go for the Stage I?

Ordering the FDAR entry Level one and then will perform all of my own modifications and improvements. This will be my very first Air-Gun to do such projects with and I cannot wait!

What Mike does to the $55.00 one is great and will get me by until I can get working on it myself.

The UTG RED-DOT SIGHT that I bought specifically for use on the Flying Dragon P17 is on the way.

I will send Mike a check for the P17 on the 29th!

Man, there are soooooooo many up-grades and modifications you can do with this P17, it has got my head spinning, which is a great thing! ;D

When I start working on it, you'll know, ha! ha! ;D

As you will be hearing a lot from me for advice!

Respectfully,

Al.

p.s. I promise, I have got to be one of the most perfect candidates for the P17, because of where I live! Beach Condos, many of them connected, actually, all of them are connected and you can hear a lot from the neighbors! Shooting just outside is a HUGE NO, NO! I will start making a Custom Pellet Trap for it too! Of course, there will be a LDC in its future!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on December 20, 2013, 03:47:25 PM
It should work well for you. Did you go for the Stage I?

+1 for the dot sight. I checked it out, it is the single dot, not the dot within a circle. I have the latter, and it just does not work well because the circle is too much. The next one i buy will be the one you did. Great sight and a great value. ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: airgunwarriors on December 20, 2013, 03:50:11 PM
It should work well for you. Did you go for the Stage I?

+1 for the dot sight. I checked it out, it is the single dot, not the dot within a circle. I have the latter, and it just does not work well because the circle is too much. The next one i buy will be the one you did. Great sight and a great value. ;D

Thanks silent_airman! ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: oneied on December 20, 2013, 05:37:23 PM
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005UGIPUQ/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005UGIPUQ/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

For my Flying Dragon Air-Rifles P17!

Should stand-up to opening and closing the breech, I HOPE!

What are you all using, if anything?

Regards,

Al.

Dont forget a rail adapter. The red dot is a piccatiny and the p17 is a dovetail
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: airgunwarriors on December 20, 2013, 06:39:34 PM
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005UGIPUQ/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005UGIPUQ/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

For my Flying Dragon Air-Rifles P17!

Should stand-up to opening and closing the breech, I HOPE!

What are you all using, if anything?

Regards,

Al.

Dont forget a rail adapter. The red dot is a piccatiny and the p17 is a dovetail

Already looking at some, Thanks!:)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: oneied on December 20, 2013, 08:19:27 PM
These will probably work good with a SSP, but they not so good on springers.  Plus the dont add any height to your red dot

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/UTG_Weaver_to_11mm_or_3_8_Dovetail_Adapter_2pcs/4148 (http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/UTG_Weaver_to_11mm_or_3_8_Dovetail_Adapter_2pcs/4148)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on December 20, 2013, 08:37:32 PM
These will probably work good with a SSP, but they not so good on springers.  Plus the dont add any height to your red dot

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/UTG_Weaver_to_11mm_or_3_8_Dovetail_Adapter_2pcs/4148 (http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/UTG_Weaver_to_11mm_or_3_8_Dovetail_Adapter_2pcs/4148)
I like these. I would suggest trimming the knife edge (as Slavia suggested earlier) to get the most rigid mounting.

These look like they were made for the 17... or vice-versa. Very reasonable price, too.

It's very easy to make a 17 feel top heavy... good reason to own a good trap to capture ballast.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on December 24, 2013, 05:30:07 PM
I think this is the Stage II barrel. What do you guys think?

14 mm weight... can be cut to all kinds of shapes. Will fit the Mac1 LDC as is, but can also serve as a base for a custom (researching now, could use suggestions).
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: airgunwarriors on December 24, 2013, 06:57:54 PM
I think this is the Stage II barrel. What do you guys think?

14 mm weight... can be cut to all kinds of shapes. Will fit the Mac1 LDC as is, but can also serve as a base for a custom (researching now, could use suggestions).

Looks great!

Will this be available in .177 as well?

Thanks!

Al.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: airgunwarriors on December 24, 2013, 07:00:47 PM
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005UGIPUQ/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005UGIPUQ/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

For my Flying Dragon Air-Rifles P17!

Should stand-up to opening and closing the breech, I HOPE!

What are you all using, if anything?

Regards,

Al.

Dont forget a rail adapter. The red dot is a piccatiny and the p17 is a dovetail

I have this on the way:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007IG14U4/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007IG14U4/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

Should work just fine, I hope!

Respectfully,

Al.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on December 24, 2013, 07:06:51 PM
Yes, both... this one is .177, it's part of the SE match prize.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: airgunwarriors on December 24, 2013, 07:08:43 PM
Yes, both... this one is .177, it's part of the SE match prize.

I hate that I am missing the current competition yall have going on, or will have going on!

Pretty sure I want .177.

Like the looks of that barrel a lot!

Thanks for the reply!

Al.
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: airgunwarriors on December 24, 2013, 07:09:39 PM
Cut a MG to 12.5", and set it up for an integrated compensator. I haven't decided what kind of port(s) to cut, but it should look ok. As an SSP, this thing should be very quiet.


Got speeds... L 347, H 358, Av 347. #5... Stock 2.5mm port, compression unknown (feels moderate). Not bad... a touch faster than the 10, and quiet. Tuned up, it should hit 560 360 with 14.3gr CPHP.  ;D


Ran a handful through it, without tearing the stock lower down to check for a sharp edged intake. Made a target, sighted it in and established it's preferred hold... and settled in for some shooting. Immediately started getting double groups. The ring is toast, but I saw enough to know I'm on track to a decent pistol.

Wow!
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: airgunwarriors on December 24, 2013, 07:11:48 PM
I may have seriously underestimated these gun's potential.

14.3gr CPHP.

Wow, again!
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: airgunwarriors on December 24, 2013, 07:13:12 PM
There are a lot of little differences, but most can't be seen without both in hand.

I didn't open the 120 all the way for that pic. They are the same, all I've done is make the last couple mm of piston travel adjustable.

I paid MM $55 shipped. Comes with.177 and .22 barrels.

I did not know that it came in both Calibers for $55.00!

That's even more awesomer now!

Al.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: airgunwarriors on December 24, 2013, 07:18:37 PM
Can't wait to send Mike M. a check for the $55.00 P17!

Trust me, if I could afford it, I'd get the Stage 1, there's no doubt that its worth every penney and some!

I'll just start off with the $55.00 P17 and then save my money for the P17 S-2!

I'm 100% BLOWN-AWAY at the Level you have taken this Air-Gun!

Respectfully,

Al.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on December 26, 2013, 02:43:49 AM
Thanks, Al. Stay tuned, there's a lot left to do to these.

Put the upper on my S1, and got a little shooting in. Really like the balance... it's easier to quell the movement (tiny arcs) I tend to have when shooting light guns one-handed.

It's a hitter, too.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: airgunwarriors on December 26, 2013, 02:49:48 AM
Thanks, Al. Stay tuned, there's a lot left to do to these.

Put the upper on my S1, and got a little shooting in. Really like the balance... it's easier to quell the movement (tiny arcs) I tend to have when shooting light guns one-handed.

It's a hitter, too.

Love that Barrel!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: oneied on December 26, 2013, 12:59:24 PM
Thanks, Al. Stay tuned, there's a lot left to do to these.

Put the upper on my S1, and got a little shooting in. Really like the balance... it's easier to quell the movement (tiny arcs) I tend to have when shooting light guns one-handed.

It's a hitter, too.

 ;D SWEET
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on December 28, 2013, 10:21:57 AM
If you like that, you'll like this:

Just did a side by side chrony comparison between a stock upper, and the S2, on my S1. Stock barrel runs @ 398, and the 10" @ 451 with Meisters (7gr).

It's got some sting.

Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: oneied on December 28, 2013, 11:42:54 AM
If you like that, you'll like this:

Just did a side by side chrony comparison between a stock upper, and the S2, on my S1. Stock barrel runs @ 398, and the 10" @ 451 with Meisters (7gr).

It's got some sting.

How do I get 1? ;D. Im having some issues with mine that I need to pick your brain at sometime
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on December 28, 2013, 11:49:17 AM
Drop me an email, Rob. I check it frequently.

We'll sort it out.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on December 31, 2013, 01:07:51 AM
Got a chance to play, and got an interesting number.

I was curious how much speed would be lost by limiting piston travel to just enough to allow any length barrel (@14mm dia), or an LDC to be mounted. The 10 incher, at that stroke, still ran around 420fps. I'm now very curious what a carbine length barrel would do with the stock SSP set up.

Looks like any shroud (of reasonable dia) can be used that is up to 7 3/4" long, without bringing the gun back down to stock speeds. I have a TKO coming on loan (thanks, G) to proto a specific barrel for, and when time permits I'll dig out my test gear and get a decibel as well as some speed readings on that.

The barrel shown is the second I've cut to S2 spec, and it is quite the little hitter, too. The match prize got leaded up nicely (it hits  ;D), and is in the next coating batch. I'm still convinced the rigidity and precise adjustments provided by front loading barrels are essential to true accuracy, and that making certain the breech seals, while cocked, is an important part of getting the superb ESs. My S1 now hangs with the customs, in accuracy.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 01, 2014, 10:54:01 PM
Guys, the sleeper is up for raffle. http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=58821.0#msg562788 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=58821.0#msg562788)

As described in the owner's thread, I will be giving a sweetened Xisico .22 barrel to whichever S1 owner (of the first 14) comes closest to winning the raffle. I'm really hoping one of you wins the pistol, too...  it would make a nice kit.

Good luck, guys!

Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 09, 2014, 01:06:56 PM
I was astonished by how quiet this thing is. I would have never believed it without hearing it.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on January 09, 2014, 01:31:11 PM
I was astonished by how quiet this thing is. I would have never believed it without hearing it.

Looks like somebody got a care package! ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on January 09, 2014, 01:36:11 PM
I was astonished by how quiet this thing is. I would have never believed it without hearing it.

Mouse farts!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 09, 2014, 01:37:29 PM
Yep. Guy I know had an extra TKO laying around... let me try it.

At  5M, the impact on cardboard is much louder than the report. The thing now looks and sounds, as he put it, "James Bondicool"...lol.


 :P Thanks, G.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: oneied on January 09, 2014, 01:39:12 PM
I was astonished by how quiet this thing is. I would have never believed it without hearing it.

I likey! Me want!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on January 09, 2014, 01:40:57 PM
Yep. Guy I know had an extra TKO laying around... let me try it.

At  5M, the impact on cardboard is much louder than the report. The thing now looks and sounds, as he put it, "James Bondicool"...lol.


 :P Thanks, G.

My pleasure buddy! How does it handle with the TKO? How close to the trigger guard does it get when open?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 09, 2014, 01:47:04 PM
I was astonished by how quiet this thing is. I would have never believed it without hearing it.

I likey! Me want!
Drop me a line, Rob. Can set that up...  8)

G, the rig has to be back drafted, but gets a full charge. I was surprised by how light it is, but that makes it handle well. You know how I like mine balanced... but this isn't even close to being nose heavy. I've been shooting the snot out of it... just to hear how Hollywood it is.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 09, 2014, 01:57:16 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on January 09, 2014, 02:02:26 PM
;D

Sa-weet! ;D A picture worth a thousand words!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 09, 2014, 02:08:06 PM
This thing is fun! I'm happy with how it handles and functions. Actually caught myself humming the 007 theme while plinking my loudest targets (it's ok, no one heard me  :D).
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on January 09, 2014, 02:37:44 PM
This thing is fun! I'm happy with how it handles and functions. Actually caught myself humming the 007 theme while plinking my loudest targets (it's ok, no one heard me  :D).

The thing we all want to know is: How many Bond women have dropped in? ::) ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 09, 2014, 02:44:35 PM
No time for girls, yet. On a mission for the Queen.

The average guy wouldn't sleep at night, if he knew how many truly evil cans and spoons are lurking out there.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on January 09, 2014, 02:56:08 PM
No time for girls, yet. On a mission for the Queen.

The average guy wouldn't sleep at night, if he knew how many truly evil cans and spoons are lurking out there.

It's a wild, wild world!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 09, 2014, 03:06:07 PM
It is.

Been thinking. I could easily set good stock barrels up with an adapter (permanent) that would not only allow a TKO, but would front load in the upper... using the same set screw as the S2 and the customs (and achieving the rigidity/accuracy they have).

Would save the (significant) blank costs.

Could you see one with full Teflon (blacked out)? Maybe a laser? We'd probably all need to get nicer tuxedos...
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on January 09, 2014, 03:15:59 PM
It is.

Been thinking. I could easily set good stock barrels up with an adapter (permanent) that would not only allow a TKO, but would front load in the upper... using the same set screw as the S2 and the customs (and achieving the rigidity/accuracy they have).

Would save the (significant) blank costs.

Could you see one with full Teflon (blacked out)? Maybe a laser? We'd probably all need to get nicer tuxedos...

Tuxedos are fine, but I want the car with machine guns behind the headlights! Road Rage Rampage! >:( ;D

That's an awesome idea. Would it be possible to change calibers that way?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 09, 2014, 03:27:27 PM
Yes. With practice, in under a minute.

The stock barrels are good, just loosely mounted and non-adjustable. This is also a great way to negate the questionable (to me, so far) integrated "compensator".

I have 17s in stock... steel on hand, and a pending Teflon run. Who wants a Stealth Edition?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on January 09, 2014, 04:20:15 PM
Yes. With practice, in under a minute.

The stock barrels are good, just loosely mounted and non-adjustable. This is also a great way to negate the questionable (to me, so far) integrated "compensator".

I have 17s in stock... steel on hand, and a pending Teflon run. Who wants a Stealth Edition?

It would work like a charm in my basement range. Too bad I'm flat broke right now. :(
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 10, 2014, 11:26:32 AM
Just started 6 Stage II complete pistols tonight. They will be S1s with these additional features:

1. Teflon triggers, latches, safeties, and pistons.
2. Choice of 2 stage trigger or a target style single stage (like my custom target guns).
3. Choice of custom chambers... wadcutter only, or full cut.
4. Choice of .177 and/or .22 caliber.
5. Choice of barrel length and diameter, cut from customer's choice of manufacturer. These will all be front loading (rigid).

Guys, for quicker delivery I'm building these right up to the barrels, and will keep them stocked. Pick your barrel specs, and it won't be long until it's in your hands.

Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: oneied on January 10, 2014, 11:54:43 AM
Will there be a Stage 2 addon kit? For Stage 1 owners
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 10, 2014, 12:03:09 PM
Will there be a Stage 2 addon kit? For Stage 1 owners
Yes.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: oneied on January 10, 2014, 04:25:48 PM
Will there be a Stage 2 addon kit? For Stage 1 owners
Yes.

SWEET  ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 12, 2014, 09:15:59 PM
As it appears that plenty of guys (including myself) find the FO sights problematic to accuracy, I'll include another S2 option:

Upon request, I'll cut the F sight as shown (or your preferred design), and deepen the barrel cradle's slot a bit while adding a POI adjustment screw to the upper.

This will allow you to shoot any pellet at any speed, and set the POI so the rear sight is not either jammed down, or hanging out in the wind.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 13, 2014, 02:21:47 PM
Figured out a positive adjustable overtravel stop. It works with either single or 2 stage triggers, and doesn't complicate re-assembly.

A tuned single stage will only need to travel a couple mm.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 14, 2014, 02:48:02 PM
I've decided to include the trigger stop upgrade as standard on S2s... with a twist:

These triggers will also be user adjustable between single and 2 stage. They will ride on a precision stainless steel pin, for the reasons I have been cutting custom pins. I will be fitting the triggers for the pins, instead of vice-versa. I will also be offering custom ball bearing triggers including ball (bearing) end adjustments screws, at additional cost.

If SE sales warrant spending on guns just for parts, I will offer the 2-way trigger as a complete drop in upgrade. Non SE 17 owners will either need to purchase tuned sear parts, or cut theirs, to get the full benefit from this upgrade.

As to barrels: I'm getting PMs about offering longer barrels, and will offer them, but it must be kept in mind that the upper will need simple mods to accommodate them. I can do the mods, no problem, but until I have the stock to keep a few modded uppers on hand, this will remain a custom option.

These just keep getting better and better...

Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 16, 2014, 07:14:31 PM
The Stage III trigger.

All balls, positive stop. Adjusts from a crisp 2 stage, to a single stage that breaks like glass.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: oneied on January 16, 2014, 07:27:17 PM
Your killing me!  Im unemployed how am I supposed to buy all these new toys?  Looks sweet.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 16, 2014, 08:39:15 PM
Thanks, man. Not to worry, I'm in this for the long haul... you have time to build what you really want.

This trigger is more advantageous in target only set ups. To get that last little bit of crisp from a good square sear (already done in S1), you have to make the alignment perfect, and rigid... especially when using very light springs (spelled Bob). The bearings don't just make it feel nice, tight and consistent, they make sure the lightened return spring can haul everything back into engagement.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on January 18, 2014, 10:29:10 AM
Eric,

I need to research your upgrades, I'm sure that the upgrades will contribute superior accuracy.  The list is almost overwhelming. My Stage I is a great pistol. The thought that you have already exceeded it makes me want to stay with the latest. 

I can't always play with the big kids, but you guys are fun.  I'm in for another hand, my birthday present to me.  No, no bucket list yet.

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on January 18, 2014, 12:01:32 PM
Your eliminating me!  Im unemployed how am I supposed to buy all these new toys?  Looks sweet.

I'm in the same boat, so do what I do. When I want something new, sell something you have to get it. Stinks, but that's life. :-\
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 19, 2014, 08:02:12 PM
So, what did you guys do for fun today?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: oneied on January 19, 2014, 11:02:11 PM
Look at all those sexy parts! ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 20, 2014, 02:33:23 PM
LOL.... I wasn't going to say it first, but that is precisely what I was thinking...

 ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 20, 2014, 06:18:23 PM
More sexy!   ;D

George's Stealth ready for the barrel, and Bob's trigger before it gets all the goodies hidden.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: oneied on January 20, 2014, 06:30:40 PM
That ball bearing trigger looks sweet
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on January 20, 2014, 07:33:16 PM
That ball bearing trigger looks sweet

Santa is making an encore! ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: oneied on January 20, 2014, 07:41:24 PM
That ball bearing trigger looks sweet

Santa is making an encore! ;D


George are you buying a whole second gun?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on January 20, 2014, 07:50:25 PM
That ball bearing trigger looks sweet

Santa is making an encore! ;D


George are you buying a whole second gun?

A swap actually. Its been in the works for awhile now.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 20, 2014, 10:39:11 PM
George, you will be the first outside my local area to feel what Teflon, riding on a fitted stainless pin, can do. S2 triggers are nothing to sneeze at, I love 'em... but, Bob has been searching for the lightest safe brain/sear interface possible.

He's done a lot of work on this, and has managed 8oz. He'd like to halve that, and the only thing I can think of that could create less friction than this, is mag-lev.

Hope it doesn't come to that...  ;)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on January 20, 2014, 10:44:43 PM
George, you will be the first outside my local area to feel what Teflon, riding on a fitted stainless pin, can do. S2 triggers are nothing to sneeze at, I love 'em... but, Bob has been searching for the lightest safe brain/sear interface possible.

He's done a lot of work on this, and has managed 8oz. He'd like to halve that, and the only thing I can think of that could create less friction than this, is mag-lev.

Hope it doesn't come to that...  ;)

I love a smooth, light trigger!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 20, 2014, 11:20:44 PM
You'll like this one.  8)

Measured at the center of the trigger, it engages the safety within 1mm. Safety off... 3mm first stage, solid stop at second stage, then 1mm to fire and stop trigger.

I set it up to all happen in the first half (short 1st), to fit your hand. Welcome to true customs, G.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on January 20, 2014, 11:32:50 PM
You'll like this one.  8)

Measured at the center of the trigger, it engages the safety within 1mm. Safety off... 3mm first stage, solid stop at second stage, then 1mm to fire and stop trigger.

I set it up to all happen in the first half (short 1st), to fit your hand. Welcome to true customs, G.

Man, I'm glad I joined GTA! ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 21, 2014, 06:53:35 PM
Stealth #1... ready for powder coat, then it's first mission... ;)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stonykill on January 21, 2014, 06:58:57 PM
Stealth #1... ready for powder coat, then it's first mission... ;)
WOW!! I like!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on January 21, 2014, 07:19:55 PM
Stealth #1... ready for powder coat, then it's first mission... ;)

"Good morning, Mr. Bowen. Your mission, George, should you choose to accept it. As always should any member of your GTA force be caught or killed, the mods will disavow all knowledge of your actions. This tape will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck George."

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 21, 2014, 07:58:41 PM
 ;D

This thing is not only sneaky, it's got a sting. 10" barrel... in my S1, it hit 451fps
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on January 21, 2014, 08:06:41 PM
;D

This thing is not only sneaky, it's got a sting. 10" barrel... in my S1, it hit 451fps

This is 'cover blown' mode, going in 'hot'. 8)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 22, 2014, 09:42:14 PM
Turns out there was a tiny little detail George wanted attended to.

 8)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: geewhiz380 on January 22, 2014, 10:45:45 PM
are u teasing  ;D or will these go into production ?if so when ? if not why ? im likin very much Stalwart  ;) they look  8) ....jorge
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on January 22, 2014, 10:54:12 PM
are u teasing  ;D or will these go into production ?if so when ? if not why ? im likin very much Stalwart  ;) they look  8) ....jorge

You ain't seen nothing yet! Wait until I get this baby down in my dungeon range and hear....well, just about nothing! :o Lots of tasty snippets and photos will follow! 8)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 24, 2014, 12:39:09 AM
are u teasing  ;D or will these go into production ?if so when ? if not why ? im likin very much Stalwart  ;) they look  8) ....jorge
Stealth #1... ready for powder coat, then it's first mission... ;)
WOW!! I like!
Thanks, guys!

Jorge, I'll be building these in very small batches, and only up to the point where the customer's decisions (caliber, barrel length, chamber, and trigger profile) are needed. If there is demand, these could end up in production.

Here's a mod I'll be using on all WCO barrels in the future... it makes tiny wad cutters a lot easier to tip in with big fingers.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 24, 2014, 06:53:37 AM
The new Stage III trigger.

In order to remove all slop between the trigger and the safety, while the safety is engaged, the left set screw is angled to ride up and onto the tab. The right screw is the trigger stop.

This is going in BobH's gun instead of the one shown before. I wanted to give him a safe single stage trigger that required the least possible travel.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on January 24, 2014, 10:59:10 AM
Eric,

I really appreciate all of the thought and work that you are putting into this pistol.  This may have the best rigger of any pistol that I have ever shot.  I look forward to it with great anticipation.  I'm sure the pistol will be a winner, I hope that I'm worthy of it potential and your efforts.

BobH.

The new Stage III trigger.

In order to remove all slop between the trigger and the safety, while the safety is engaged, the left set screw is angled to ride up and onto the tab. The right screw is the trigger stop.

This is going in BobH's gun instead of the one shown before. I wanted to give him a safe single stage trigger that required the least possible travel.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on January 24, 2014, 02:24:30 PM
Guys, I think we all agree that Eric is a magician. 8) And it speaks a lot for the P17 as a versatile base gun with a lot of potential. It does beg a question though. Will Eric ever run out of ideas? I am excited about the next wrinkle he'll come up with! ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 25, 2014, 06:44:55 PM
Thanks guys... the encouragement goes a long way.

Bob, the pleasure is mine... trust me. Just getting a couple true customs out there, so others can see what I've been shooting (and loving), is a big deal to me. The little Plain Jane we are putting together is gonna have some surprises for your competition.

George, I have a few more tricks up my sleeve, but I did come up with one just for you: If you are willing to wait a while for shipping, I could set the Stealth up with a sound chip that plays the 007 theme when you open it. You're in no hurry, right?



  ;);D ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on January 25, 2014, 06:52:56 PM
Thanks guys... the encouragement goes a long way.

Bob, the pleasure is mine... trust me. Just getting a couple true customs out there, so others can see what I've been shooting (and loving), is a big deal to me. The little Plain Jane we are putting together is gonna have some surprises for your competition.

George, I have a few more tricks up my sleeve, but I did come up with one just for you: If you are willing to wait a while for shipping, I could set the Stealth up with a sound chip that plays the 007 theme when you open it. You're in no hurry, right?



  ;);D ;D

Lol, cute. Now if you could also include the phone numbers of some Bond women that would really make it worth the wait! ::) 8)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 25, 2014, 06:57:22 PM
I'll see what I have in stock, and let you know.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 26, 2014, 07:04:11 PM
Stealth #1 is ready to ship.

:)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on January 26, 2014, 07:20:19 PM
Stealth #1 is ready to ship.

:)

Man, that's just plain TUFF!!!! :o Ok, calm down...be patient...YEAH RIGHT! ::)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 26, 2014, 07:27:45 PM
You are gonna like this:

I put a "long" piston in this, the compression is a bit higher than average. Just chronied @470.7fps with 7gr Meisters.

Now, I want one.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on January 26, 2014, 07:30:11 PM
You are gonna like this:

I put a "long" piston in this, the compression is a bit higher than average. Just chronied @470.7fps with 7gr Meisters.

Now, I want one.

Man, you are spoiling me just plain ROTTEN! LOVE it! 8) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 27, 2014, 10:47:51 PM
Bob's trigger is finished.

Matte teflon, with a notch cut into the center of the trigger to keep his scale indexed properly.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on January 28, 2014, 08:03:27 AM
Eric,

Bob is liking what he is seeing.  I can hardly weight to curl my finger around it.  It looks like something else has germinated.   Keep up the good work.

BobH.

 
Bob's trigger is finished.

Matte teflon, with a notch cut into the center of the trigger to keep his scale indexed properly.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on February 04, 2014, 01:52:50 PM
Here's a teaser for you, Bob.

.8mm travel to stop. The safety literally wedges the trigger to lock. I think it's what you're looking for.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on February 04, 2014, 02:21:09 PM
Eric,

You have ALL of my attention!  Thirty thou. take up sounds very nice.  A functioning safety is still a nice touch.   I have to keep this post short, I'm seeing drool on keyboard.

BobH.

Here's a teaser for you, Bob.

.8mm travel to stop. The safety literally wedges the trigger to lock. I think it's what you're looking for.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on February 04, 2014, 02:44:57 PM
All the .8 is after it fires. That's why the safety has to be wedged, there is no creep. It almost feels like a pressure switch.

It's every bit as clean as any Gold Cup trigger I've ever done, or shot. When we get the right barrel in this thing, it's going to be a ton of fun to compete with. :)

Frankly, I'm really surprised to find something as good as these are, that is still so far before the apex of it's developmental curve. There are a lot of things left to try on these... all fun.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on February 04, 2014, 03:22:37 PM
Eric,
This is even better.   I will  endeavor to be worthy of your efforts.

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on February 04, 2014, 04:51:46 PM
Bob, if this trigger is anything like my Stealth, which I am betting yours is going to be even better, then you are in for a very pleasurable surprise! I love my Stealth! 8)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on February 09, 2014, 08:53:34 AM
It looks like I have a couple days til Bob's barrels come in, so I played with my own toys a bit.

Got a bunch done on the tooling for repeating 60s, and dug out the grandaddy of all my 17s for some fun.

I can't get over the feeling there is something familiar about this configuration...lol.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on February 09, 2014, 08:20:39 PM
It looks like I have a couple days til Bob's barrels come in, so I played with my own toys a bit.

Got a bunch done on the tooling for repeating 60s, and dug out the grandaddy of all my 17s for some fun.

I can't get over the feeling there is something familiar about this configuration...lol.

Deja vu!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on February 12, 2014, 04:16:26 PM
The closest trigger shoe I could find for these was narrow 1911 (obsolete), and only 1 supplier had them left... for $30.

I commissioned BobH to cut us up some. Cushy...  8)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on February 12, 2014, 04:29:49 PM
The closest trigger shoe I could find for these was narrow 1911 (obsolete), and only 1 supplier had them left... for $30.

I commissioned BobH to cut us up some. Cushy...  8)

I wanna, I wanna! ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on February 12, 2014, 04:40:26 PM
That's 1 for the "GB" box.

Your new mission is to decide what color and texture you want. These are nicely done, and even look good raw.

LMK before the next Teflon run, if you want a match to the Widow.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on February 12, 2014, 05:21:23 PM
That's 1 for the "GB" box.

Your new mission is to decide what color and texture you want. These are nicely done, and even look good raw.

LMK before the next Teflon run, if you want a match to the Widow.

What are the choices of color and texture?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on February 12, 2014, 06:11:37 PM
Well, let's see... there's really shiny black, kinda shiny black, or bumpy black that won't shine (Bob's).

Or...

Any 1 of the 4000+ colors you've seen before. Just buy me a pound of the color, and cover 1/2 hour of shop time.

Go ahead, I dare ya! Make it pink!

 ;)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on February 12, 2014, 06:18:40 PM
Well, let's see... there's really shiny black, kinda shiny black, or bumpy black that won't shine (Bob's).

Or...

Any 1 of the 4000+ colors you've seen before. Just buy me a pound of the color, and cover 1/2 hour of shop time.

Go ahead, I dare ya! Make it pink!

 ;)

Haha, no pink here! I'll go with Bob's bumpy black, and keep it Black Ops. 8)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: 56S on February 13, 2014, 06:33:51 PM
Hopefully I'm not interrupting here but wanted to drop a few coins on the conversation.  Got mine Tuesday after work.  Last night drilled and tapped the slide just behind the front sight for a short section of Weaver rail and stole the Browning Red Dot off my Buckmark.  Now I have as much into optics as my pistol.  Also removed the barrel and chucked it into my Dewalt 18V cordless lathe and polished up both ends.  Pellets start much easier and leave on their short trip happy and headed off in the right direction.  Got home today and found a frozen piece of Schnauzer poo at around ten yds.  Turned it into rabbit pellets.  Then I turned my attention to the Gamo 1" spinners at 25 yds.  4 out of 10 hits using a handrailing as a rest and never even shooting paper to sight it in.  Now, trigger work!

These are the AG bargain of the decade!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on February 13, 2014, 10:01:13 PM
56S,

They are great, I know that some folks haven't had pleasant experiences, but mine have been excellent.  I hadn't thought of shooting dog droppings, bet it makes them more difficult to pick up. 

For longer O-ring life keep the piston shiny with lithium grease.  The P17 is a great platform for tinkering. 

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on February 14, 2014, 07:21:52 AM
I couldn't agree more.

If there is an AG out there that is more fun to mod and shoot, at any price, I'd sure appreciate someone pointing it out.

I'm knee deep in these things, and from what I've seen, the newer batches are just a bit better than earlier runs... in all ways. I haven't seen any of the complaints online the early versions used to generate. There will always be a percentage of issues caused by the modern production methods needed to produce anything affordable these days... but, the maker seems to have gotten at least a decent handle on them.

56S, you aren't interrupting anything... there isn't a nice thing you can say that wouldn't be "preaching to the choir" here, and nothing you could run into that at least one of us hasn't already. Welcome to the (unbelievably cost effective) 17 Club... don't hesitate to share your mods and experiences.



Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: 56S on February 14, 2014, 07:52:51 AM
Thanks for the welcome.  I've come to the conclusion that one reason these are great tinker guns is that so much can be done on a kitchen table instead of a regular workbench.  My shop is not heated and with the single digit temps I have something to work on in my basement where I have my RC airplane build bench.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on February 19, 2014, 01:59:25 PM
Yup... if you have a few clear meters of space, a small table, and a 17... there is no reason winter should keep you from shooting.

Been shooting Bob's gun. Looks like it's good to go.

The upper is set up for front loading barrels, with a Delrin nose bushing that will allow drop in barrels to be adjusted for perfect fit (seal), or any length customs.

Plain, but potent. They'll never see it coming...

 ;D

Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on February 19, 2014, 03:05:58 PM
Eric,

Looking good! Isn't Christmas next week?

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on February 19, 2014, 03:54:57 PM
If not, it will sure look like it at your house.

I pack for catastrophe... you'll have plenty of unwrapping to do.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on February 26, 2014, 07:17:11 AM
Folks,

I have my new P17 from Eric.  His trigger mod is fantastic, the ball bearing is just part of the package.  It has no perceptible first stage, it like a microswitch.  Just think trigger, and it fires. 

I have not put it on the Chrony yet but, if sound is any indication, it has more velocity.  I think this attributable to the front loading barrel and the way it is located against the breech seal. None of the air is being wasted.  The accuracy is looking very good,  I"ll know a whole lot more after a couple of tins of pellets. 

Eric, I really appreciate your efforts.  You have tuned a good pistol into fine pistol.  You have tailored it to match my needs.

More to come

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stonykill on February 26, 2014, 07:35:59 AM
Folks,

I have my new P17 from Eric.  His trigger mod is fantastic, the ball bearing is just part of the package.  It has no perceptible first stage, it like a microswitch.  Just think trigger, and it fires. 

I have not put it on the Chrony yet but, if sound is any indication, it has more velocity.  I think this attributable to the front loading barrel and the way it is located against the breech seal. None of the air is being wasted.  The accuracy is looking very good,  I"ll know a whole lot more after a couple of tins of pellets. 

Eric, I really appreciate your efforts.  You have tuned a good pistol into fine pistol.  You have tailored it to match my needs.

More to come

BobH.

  I really enjoy hearing news like this!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on February 26, 2014, 04:44:17 PM
Bob, it is a real pleasure working with you, and an honor to put my work in your hands. Your early and solid support has made for real progress here.

Thanks, bud.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on March 01, 2014, 07:16:21 PM
Congrats to BobH! Good shooting, bud!! Taught those whippersnappers a thing or two, huh?  ;D Your prize will be shipped in the next run out.

The next match will be in better weather, and allow mods.

Breaking 17 news... Mr. Melick sent me a fine pile of blanks in .22 and .177, at prices that can only be described as great. There will be no increases in S2 prices (as long as these barrels last), and if anyone has been thinking about going for a select .22 barrel for their SE.... now is the time.



Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on March 01, 2014, 08:31:06 PM
Congrats to BobH! Good shooting, bud!! Taught those whippersnappers a thing or two, huh?  ;D Your prize will be shipped in the next run out.

The next match will be in better weather, and allow mods.

Breaking 17 news... Mr. Melick sent me a fine pile of blanks in .22 and .177, at prices that can only be described as great. There will be no increases in S2 prices (as long as these barrels last), and if anyone has been thinking about going for a select .22 barrel for their SE.... now is the time.

I like the drop in, front loading barrel setup on Bob's gun. Sort of reminds me of the Dan Wesson pistol paks and Thompson Contenders with their interchangeable barrel systems. My imagination could go crazy with this stuff! ;D (What do I mean, 'could'? Already is!) ::)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on March 01, 2014, 08:36:25 PM
Aw shucks, I'm gonna blush.

BobH.

Congrats to BobH! Good shooting, bud!! Taught those whippersnappers a thing or two, huh?  ;D Your prize will be shipped in the next run out.

The next match will be in better weather, and allow mods.

Breaking 17 news... Mr. Melick sent me a fine pile of blanks in .22 and .177, at prices that can only be described as great. There will be no increases in S2 prices (as long as these barrels last), and if anyone has been thinking about going for a select .22 barrel for their SE.... now is the time.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on March 17, 2014, 08:36:24 AM
Hi Folks,
Last week I received the S2 barrel assembly that Eric had graciously provided for the prize for the Stage 1 Owner's Match. I now have (4) barrels that Eric has chambered and crowned.  The S2 barrel is 10" long.

I removed the stock P17 barrel and cocking arm as a unit so that I wouldn't disturb the barrel sight plane relationship.  I pulled the E-clip from the front hinge pin and tapped it out. Next, I removed the front cylinder pivot pin and off came the barrel assy. I installed the S2 kit.  The S2 kit adds some needed weight the stock pistol.  I have not chronographed it, but I anticipate an increase in FPS. I have added a bicycle inner tube sleeve to the grip which is a big improvement over the stock grip surface. It does feel good in the hand.

The front loading barrel is a real plus. Eric has bored out the front barrel locating hole in the cocking arm and has added a set screw to the bottom front of the cocking arm.  He has made a sleeve to fit over the barrel and into the enlarged front hole in the cocking arm.  This allows you to push the barrel against the breach 0-ring seal and tighten the set screw to hole it in place.  No shims required!

The portion of the barrel that extends out side of the cocking arm limits the stroke of the piston. Don't worry this is a good thing prevents the piston 0-ring from travelling to the vent hole in the cylinder.  I can no longer just grab the cocking arm and swing the action open. The cocking process has one addition step.  Pull the trigger to its stop and keep pressure on it until the action is fully open.  I now hear  a "pissst" sound  as the cocking arm is nearing the end of its stroke, that is the air being draw into the cylinder though breach.  This cocks just like my ball bearing P17.

I had been wanting to try an enclosed red dot sight.  Yesterday, I went to W-World and bought an inexpensive Center Point 30 MM Enclose Reflex Sight.  It is now installed the S2 barrel assy.  If it hangs together, it will be a keeper. ( I saved the receipt)

I will wring out the S2 barrel and red dot sight in the next few weeks if winter ever goes away.  I haven't forgot that I have not finish reporting on my ball bearing equipped, highly modified P10 that Eric built.  I do need some nice weather so I can play outside.

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on March 18, 2014, 12:32:19 PM
Bob, I shot the snot out of that barrel, in my S1, prior to coating it. It was a great combo.... tons of fun. I wanted to keep it...lol. Next barrel run, I'm making myself another.

You won't need to run a tin through it before it settles in... trust me.

 ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on March 22, 2014, 10:26:58 AM
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Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on March 22, 2014, 11:07:01 AM
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Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stonykill on March 22, 2014, 11:10:24 AM
One question though - Where's the best place to buy? Anybody have any experience with BigSupplyShop? They seem to be the cheapest, especially since I want to get some different pellets and stuff. Just don't want to buy from the cheapest if I'm going to have problems. Would rather pay a bit more for better service.

Thanks - can't wait to start modding.

  I do not. They are cheap yes, but their shipping is expensive. Even when buying 2. $15 to ship one, $20 to ship 2. Amazon, $43 with free shipping if you have Prime.

   BUT the BEST place. Right here : http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/ (http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on March 22, 2014, 03:41:49 PM
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Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on March 22, 2014, 03:53:54 PM

   BUT the BEST place. Right here : http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/ (http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/)

I saw that site, and was thinking about it since the guys modding the guns and the owner of the site frequent here, and provide lots of information, but I was wanting to get some different kinds of pellets to get also.

And Stonykill - seeing a bunch of your posts in the Hunting Gate has definitely added spark to my wanting one of these guns. Even though I want it mostly for shooting indoors in basement, I would like something to carry in the boat with me.

Hey BigTinBoat, here is the perfect basement gun.

(http://i1364.photobucket.com/albums/r726/George_Bowen/My%20toys/Stealth%201/DSC_7631_zps40853f8f.jpg) (http://s1364.photobucket.com/user/George_Bowen/media/My%20toys/Stealth%201/DSC_7631_zps40853f8f.jpg.html)

Quiet, and shoots like a pro.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stonykill on March 22, 2014, 04:30:12 PM

   BUT the BEST place. Right here : http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/ (http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/)

I saw that site, and was thinking about it since the guys modding the guns and the owner of the site frequent here, and provide lots of information, but I was wanting to get some different kinds of pellets to get also.

And Stonykill - seeing a bunch of your posts in the Hunting Gate has definitely added spark to my wanting one of these guns. Even though I want it mostly for shooting indoors in basement, I would like something to carry in the boat with me.

  cool . Your prey needs to be close and you need a pellet you know penetrates well. I can't say that enough.  I need to put aside some funds and get some stuff from Stalwart. Upping the FPS would help with the pesting aspect of it.

   FUN FUN pistol. And just silly accurate.

  Well now I think I need to go outside in the wind and shoot mine   ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on March 22, 2014, 07:47:01 PM
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Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on March 22, 2014, 07:50:56 PM

Hey BigTinBoat, here is the perfect basement gun.

(http://i1364.photobucket.com/albums/r726/George_Bowen/My%20toys/Stealth%201/DSC_7631_zps40853f8f.jpg) (http://s1364.photobucket.com/user/George_Bowen/media/My%20toys/Stealth%201/DSC_7631_zps40853f8f.jpg.html)

Quiet, and shoots like a pro.


This I know, it was the pic of this "Stealth" that turned me from wanting a Daisy 953 for indoor to the B17 for Indoor. I'm sure you've seen the I caught the "bug" and will likely wind up getting both a B17 and a 953 before it's all over.

Awesome! Glad I am so 'contagious'!  ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on March 23, 2014, 11:24:26 PM
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Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stonykill on March 24, 2014, 09:39:28 AM
you're welcome bigtinboat. It is worth a few extra dollars for that service
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on March 25, 2014, 09:19:52 AM
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Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on March 25, 2014, 11:21:16 AM
Boats,

You are going to like it!

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on March 26, 2014, 01:12:58 PM
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Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stonykill on March 26, 2014, 01:22:15 PM
Well it looks like most of the P17 owners are subscribed to the thread so I figure I'll ask this question here instead of starting a new thread.
Anybody tell me the dimensions of the gun? Amazon lists them as

"Product Dimensions: 12 x 9.2 x 1.8 inches ; 2 pounds "

I'm sure this is the box, right?

Reason I ask is that I want to get a case for it today and was wondering if it would fit in here...for $16 seems like a good deal. (pending seeing the quality in person)

(http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_20333.jpg)

http://www.harborfreight.com/11-x-7-x-4-aluminum-case-69316.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/11-x-7-x-4-aluminum-case-69316.html)

If not will a plastic one like this work? Not sure how much protection the plastic will provide.
(http://cdn.pyramydair.com/images/acc/MTM-Two-Pistol-Handgun-Case_MTM-CG809.jpg)
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/MTM_Case_Gard_Pistol_Case_Holds_2_Guns/4224 (http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/MTM_Case_Gard_Pistol_Case_Holds_2_Guns/4224)

   I keep mine in the plastic one. The case holds the P17, white lube, pellets with room to spare. Plenty of protection unless you plan on running it over.

    I picked mine up at TSC on clearance for $7.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on March 26, 2014, 02:12:13 PM
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Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: oneied on March 26, 2014, 03:06:42 PM
Well it looks like most of the P17 owners are subscribed to the thread so I figure I'll ask this question here instead of starting a new thread.
Anybody tell me the dimensions of the gun? Amazon lists them as

"Product Dimensions: 12 x 9.2 x 1.8 inches ; 2 pounds "

I'm sure this is the box, right?

Reason I ask is that I want to get a case for it today and was wondering if it would fit in here...for $16 seems like a good deal. (pending seeing the quality in person)

(http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_20333.jpg)

http://www.harborfreight.com/11-x-7-x-4-aluminum-case-69316.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/11-x-7-x-4-aluminum-case-69316.html)

If not will a plastic one like this work? Not sure how much protection the plastic will provide.
(http://cdn.pyramydair.com/images/acc/MTM-Two-Pistol-Handgun-Case_MTM-CG809.jpg)
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/MTM_Case_Gard_Pistol_Case_Holds_2_Guns/4224 (http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/MTM_Case_Gard_Pistol_Case_Holds_2_Guns/4224)

   I keep mine in the plastic one. The case holds the P17, white lube, pellets with room to spare. Plenty of protection unless you plan on running it over.

    I picked mine up at TSC on clearance for $7.

+1. I have my P17 and Benji nitro pistol on the top and my 1377 and supplies in the bottom
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: althawk on March 27, 2014, 09:03:29 PM
either of those cases should work, I believe I've had 1377's and p17s in the bottom plastic one or a clone of that one. 
The p17 can and will fit in this: Plano Ammo Can (aka field box, dry storage box...etc.)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41me4-MCjqL._AA160_.jpg)
along with a tube of white lithium grease, a few cans of pellets and a few tools. + protective eyewear
If you want something cheaper, <$10, with some water resistance (lid has a rubbery o-ring), however it doesn't come with foam padding like the 2 options above. You could improvise with something, neoprene tablet sleeve or a mousepad, but the p17's plastic is pretty robust, I don't really worry about it.

There is a concern about securing these boxes though... although a lock can be put on the plastic ones, these aren't anywhere as secure as an all metal safe or key-locked case. Office supply stores carry some all metal options (i.e. a cash box) under $20 that are fairly robust. If securing is a concern of course.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31WuONoKJHL._AA160_.jpg)(http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/01/62/47/30/0001624730200_180X180.jpg)
the first alert one is 4"x10+"x7+" and $13 @ wallyworld.
The harbor freight one didn't impress me a year or two ago when I looked at several of them in store.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on March 27, 2014, 09:52:49 PM
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Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stonykill on March 27, 2014, 10:05:00 PM
 Really nice shooting Rob. These are just amazing pistols for the price! Those winnie pellets are great for the price. My P17 likes em. This is a 5 shot group offhand , kneeling at 8 yards (if I remember correctly) in my workshop.  My only indoor shooting spot. Winnie domes. Around $5 or less for 500

 (http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u215/stonykill/DSCF3294-001_zps5c8573da.jpg)

   
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on March 27, 2014, 11:26:41 PM
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Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: westtexasrancher on April 02, 2014, 06:29:03 PM
Awesome thread.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stonykill on April 02, 2014, 06:30:52 PM
Awesome thread.

 agreed  ;)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on April 02, 2014, 09:06:58 PM
.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stonykill on April 02, 2014, 09:22:36 PM
looking good! Gotta love those ex's. Dirt cheap and just work!

   I'll have to try them out of mine again. I have not in a while. And I have like 2500 of them here  :D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on April 02, 2014, 11:22:15 PM
My decompressed P17 shoots the Destroyer EX's very well.  I too have some put away.

BobH.

looking good! Gotta love those ex's. Dirt cheap and just work!

   I'll have to try them out of mine again. I have not in a while. And I have like 2500 of them here  :D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on April 03, 2014, 07:20:05 AM
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Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stonykill on April 03, 2014, 07:24:12 AM
only once has that happend to me
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on April 03, 2014, 07:49:06 AM
Rob,

I have had problems opening those cans.  I have a solution, I use a s pair of H. F. polymer oil filter wrenches.  They work great, but keep the bottom one lay on the table. 

Being the concerned husband that I am, I bought these wrenches for my wife who had much trouble opening jars.  I'm not allowed to take them from the kitchen.  Problem solved.

BobH.

Does anyone else have problems getting the tins open? At least 1/2 of the tins I bought of any 250 Crosman pellets(EX and Pointed) I had to use a screwdriver to bend the lids off, destroying them. No problems with the Premier in the 500 count, only the 250 ct tins.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on April 03, 2014, 08:21:52 AM
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Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stonykill on April 07, 2014, 08:59:37 PM
I'm becoming fond of this latest rig... enough that I'm changing the plan a bit. This one's staying a pistol.

I've come up with some changes to the carbine design that will require some parts and materials orders, and just ordered another "victim"... from MM. We'll see what comes, but my experience so far has been that I won't regret letting the guy inside my new gun before I see it. I don't do that, ever... but, the 79 he sold me remains unmodified as I chop up everything else around here. There is simply no hurry on that one.

Does anyone else like the look of the long one? It's growing on me, and the balance is actually quite good.

 I wasn't on the forum when this was posted. Yeah, I like it, my favorite one!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on April 08, 2014, 05:40:43 PM
Thanks! It's a ton of fun to shoot, especially reaching out from a rest.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on April 08, 2014, 05:42:44 PM
Thanks! It's a ton of fun to shoot, especially reaching out from a rest.

The Stealth is perfect for resting!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: FrozenVapors on April 16, 2014, 02:26:59 PM
Is it often done where someone mounts a reflex sight on top of a scope just for sighting a target?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on April 16, 2014, 07:21:37 PM
I've heard of iron spotting sights over a scope, but never optics. Never saw any.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on April 16, 2014, 07:27:22 PM
Is it often done where someone mounts a reflex sight on top of a scope just for sighting a target?

Isn't that rather redundant?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on April 16, 2014, 07:34:11 PM
Not really. If you shoot with a high power scope, at long range, in a featureless landscape you can sometimes get lost. If your "weak" eye is really weak, it makes it harder to spot, then switch eyes. If you have only 1 eye, well... you get the picture.

Similar to scope with little scopes in astronomy.

Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on April 16, 2014, 07:38:09 PM
Not really. If you shoot with a high power scope, at long range, in a featureless landscape you can sometimes get lost. If your "weak" eye is really weak, it makes it harder to spot, then switch eyes. If you have only 1 eye, well... you get the picture.

Ahh, sort of like the finder scope on a astronomical telescope. Gotcha.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on April 16, 2014, 07:39:55 PM
You beat my edit in.

 ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on April 16, 2014, 07:43:41 PM
You beat my edit in.

 ;D

I'm quick! ;)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on April 16, 2014, 07:45:23 PM
And I am, most definitely, not.

 ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on April 16, 2014, 08:00:14 PM
And I am, most definitely, not.

 ;D

Maybe so, but you have it where it counts, my friend! ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on April 16, 2014, 08:21:27 PM
Seriously, George, I have had a lot of fun in life... but I didn't find contentment until I decided to be as patient with myself as others seem quite willing to be. I know it seems like a duh, but...  :-[

I had a friend named "Blue" (and he was) who had a tattoo you could barely see of a happy turtle, trucking somewhere, with the words "Slow, but Sho' ". He was light years ahead of me in finding some peace.

At the bottom of my contact page, I put my little motto: "Working to standards, not deadlines." I'm not sure when it started, but I seem to be growing up... ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on April 16, 2014, 09:00:08 PM
Seriously, George, I have had a lot of fun in life... but I didn't find contentment until I decided to be as patient with myself as others seem quite willing to be. I know it seems like a duh, but...  :-[

I had a friend named "Blue" (and he was) who had a tattoo you could barely see of a happy turtle, trucking somewhere, with the words "Slow, but Sho' ". He was light years ahead of me in finding some peace.

At the bottom of my contact page, I put my little motto: "Working to standards, not deadlines." I'm not sure when it started, but I seem to be growing up... ;D

Good wisdom there. But, my motto is "I may be growing older, but I refuse to grow up!"  8)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: avator on April 16, 2014, 09:04:28 PM
I think we're all "Toys R Us" kids.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on April 17, 2014, 07:11:37 PM
If anyone is thinking maybe I don't belong here, remember that I said "growing" not "grown"!

 ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on April 29, 2014, 11:38:03 PM
Began work on a first for me... a Dueling Set!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on April 29, 2014, 11:44:29 PM
Began work on a first for me... a Dueling Set!

I could only dream of making mine look anywhere near that good. Love how you went right to the end. I don't think I could trust my hands getting that close.

Nice work! are the .177 and .22? or .20 and .22?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on April 29, 2014, 11:53:17 PM
They are both .177, but I see why you ask. It's a trick of the light... but the furthest looks bigger!

According to my chamber reamer, they are nearly (if not) identical.  ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on April 29, 2014, 11:59:35 PM
They are both .177, but I see why you ask. It's a trick of the light... but the furthest looks bigger!

According to my chamber reamer, they are nearly (if not) identical.  ;D

Gotcha - it does look bigger but not .177 to .22. It looked like .177 and .20 or .20 and .22
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: avator on April 30, 2014, 08:46:28 AM
Began work on a first for me... a Dueling Set!
Should those look familier to me? If so, keep them pics coming, I'm making a scrapbook... lol
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on April 30, 2014, 10:21:43 AM
Yup, they're yours. Will do.

The "martini glass" cuts make loading tiny pellets much easier. I'm not sure why they don't do something like this at the factory, there is no downside.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on April 30, 2014, 10:45:29 AM
Yup, they're yours. Will do.

The "martini glass" cuts make loading tiny pellets much easier. I'm not sure why they don't do something like this at the factory, there is no downside.

I think to save on costs they just cut the minimum of metal off to make it fit in there. Even though my .22 barrel is not as accurate as my .177 it is WAY easier to load.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stonykill on April 30, 2014, 10:48:28 AM
 yup, in .22 they almost load themselves  :D . I'm happy to say my .22 is a tack driver  ;)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on April 30, 2014, 10:55:28 AM
Yeah, my first Micro Groove .22 was so easy to load, I fell in love with these. The earlier 17s were basically not chambered at all, and were a real pain to load with anything.

Honestly, guys... if these sold for $40, and needed nothing, I'd own exactly 1. How about you?

 ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on April 30, 2014, 01:20:07 PM
One for the "credit where credit is due" file:

Horse trading with avator turned out precisely as he said it would.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stonykill on April 30, 2014, 01:26:15 PM

Honestly, guys... if these sold for $40, and needed nothing, I'd own exactly 1. How about you?

 ;D

 I don't understand the question  ;D . Own only 1?? Blasphemy  :D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on April 30, 2014, 01:58:10 PM
Well, that explains the villagers coming up the hill with torches and pitchforks. I've gotta get out of here, and I can only carry 4-5 of these... which ones do I choose??

 ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: avator on April 30, 2014, 02:14:11 PM
One for the "credit where credit is due" file:

Horse trading with avator turned out precisely as he said it would.
And I think Mr. Stalwart's reputation speaks for itself. We feel incredibly fortunate to be getting a pair of these. He basically made an offer we couldn't refuse. It looks like he's taking it pretty serious, he just received them yesterday afternoon. Now that's service.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on April 30, 2014, 04:14:04 PM
Well I think I got a bad crosman .22 barrel. I cut and turned the .177 barrel from my old 1389 after I put the 24" on it. This barrel has only had 50 shots but thru it and already better then the new .22 one. I have crowned and re-crowned the .22 and I have lapped it with polishing paste. I did order 2 bearing to put on my HD pipe cutter and try to choke it but will leave the .177 on there for now. Neither of these barrel has rifling anywhere near the depth of the Beeman barrel.

Here is the .22 from 10yds - CPHP and 4 different Benji's - I don't consider any of these groups acceptable
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=49115.0;attach=82567;image)

Here is the .177 from 10yds - each of these group fine with the exception of crosman pointed - not sure why such diff POI with each
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=49115.0;attach=82569;image)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on May 01, 2014, 08:17:10 PM
Bill, never let my silly grin fool you. It's there because I love my work... but, yes, I do take that very seriously.  ;D

Tom, please post the results of your choking experiments? I run into a lot of Crosman barrels that have vague rifling, at best. It would be nice to have an easy way to save a few of them.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on May 01, 2014, 09:39:44 PM

Tom (it's actually Rob), please post the results of your choking experiments? I run into a lot of Crosman barrels that have vague rifling, at best. It would be nice to have an easy way to save a few of them.

I will - the 2 bearings I needed should be here this Saturday.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on May 01, 2014, 09:56:41 PM
I'm sorry, Rob... :-[

With any luck, this will be the only thing I space out on today (don't hold your breath).  ;)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on May 03, 2014, 06:57:18 PM

Tom (Rob), please post the results of your choking experiments? I run into a lot of Crosman barrels that have vague rifling, at best. It would be nice to have an easy way to save a few of them.

Well it didn't work, but I think it may have been my fault. This pipe cutter has WAY more power then you could imagine. I thought - How will this thing ever compress this steel. Well I snugged it down and spun it around and tightened a bit, spun some more and did this a few times. Took it out of my clamp and when I pushed a pellet thru it took a LOT of pressure to get out of the muzzle. Definite rifling marks showing on pellet. I think I may have over choked it. Put it on the gun and the groups went to about 6"!
Well I took it back off and put the .177 back on just so I could shoot it. Here's the groups I shot off my rice bag from 10yds. Not sure what I did different but it's shooting pretty good now. And with the cheapest pellets I have. Need to get back to Tractor Supply for the $3.49 for a tin of 500.
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=49115.0;attach=82716;image)

I'm going to cut the .22 barrel down to 11" and give it a shot choking again
Here is my pipe cutter with bearings attached.
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=49115.0;attach=82718;image)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stonykill on May 03, 2014, 07:54:27 PM
 guess the thing to do if you try that again is sneak up on it. Compress a little, try again. Rinse and repeat if needed  :D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stonykill on May 03, 2014, 07:57:28 PM
  just gonna ask as I don't want to cruise 21 pages to find the answer.

    FINALLY got my wife to shoot with me. She tried the 880 and is not used to scopes. So I let her try the .22/10/P17. Yeah, she likes it  :D.

   So I'm going to detune one for her so I do not need to cock it every time for her. Which at this point I don't mind as I am coaching her. But I will want to shoot together.

   So my question is... those of you who detuned... how deep did you make the dish in the piston? And was it just a uniform concave dish?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on May 03, 2014, 09:53:52 PM

   So my question is... those of you who detuned... how deep did you make the dish in the piston? And was it just a uniform concave dish?

I think Bob H is the only one who de-tuned. My guess would be a countersink bit.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: avator on May 03, 2014, 09:58:26 PM
I think this may be the first time I've heard someone tune a gun for less power. Gentlemen, we have reached a milestone.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on May 03, 2014, 10:11:28 PM
I think this may be the first time I've heard someone tune a gun for less power. Gentlemen, we have reached a milestone.

Plenty of guys do this. I'm looking at getting a 2400KT and then putting a 13ci bottle on it. Want to be able to tune it up just a bit for hunting and then be able to de-tune it to get 100 "consistent" shots.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on May 03, 2014, 10:19:24 PM
You can also do the backdraft mod, and change it at will.

If you simply drill a hole into the face of the piston, it will de-comp. If you go too deep, a bit of epoxy will refill to a depth that works for you.

I highly recommend backdrafting with a 117 ring. The rings last, and the ESs drop to amazing levels.

Good job TomRob! LOL... Tom is right... slug it often as you sneak up on your choke... you'll feel when you are close. Try shooting it before you go the last little bit, you may already be where you need it.

:)

Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: avator on May 03, 2014, 10:21:57 PM
You're right, I spoke before I thought. I've detuned our FD-PCPs for shot count with the bstaley mod and power adjustment. Disreguard the previous statement and we now return you to your regularly schedualed program.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on May 03, 2014, 10:38:27 PM
Bill, does Betty Lou have any problems cocking these?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: avator on May 03, 2014, 10:42:53 PM
Bill, does Betty Lou have any problems cocking these?
Pinched one finger than got the hang of it real fast. She was doing great just before we sent them to you.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on May 03, 2014, 10:46:48 PM
Well, she learns quicker than I did...lol. I got nipped a couple times. Once... got me pretty good. That was the last time...  :-[
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on May 03, 2014, 10:55:54 PM
You can also do the backdraft mod, and change it at will.

If you simply drill a hole into the face of the piston, it will de-comp. If you go too deep, a bit of epoxy will refill to a depth that works for you.

I highly recommend backdrafting with a 117 ring. The rings last, and the ESs drop to amazing levels.

Good job TomRob! LOL... Tom is right... slug it often as you sneak up on your choke... you'll feel when you are close. Try shooting it before you go the last little bit, you may already be where you need it.

:)

I did the back draft and added the 117 Viton 90 O-ring. How do you adjust? by turning the stop screw in or out to determine how far it opens up?

Also with the full Picatinny rail and scope on top if is a lot easier to pump.

Well I cut the barrel down and cleaned it all up, but it looks like it is actually drilled off center. When I spin the barrel in the drill the outside spins straight around, but the bore seems to "wobble". I think it might actually be drill "crooked".

I got the .177 barrel on there shooting pretty good and I'm almost afraid to take it off and try the .22 again - especially since I think it's "crooked" inside.

I will probably just pick up another .22 barrel next order I put into Crosman, it was under $12.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on May 03, 2014, 11:01:01 PM
Correct. It takes very little protrusion to make a difference.

I agree... at $12, you can call it good practice and try again. I've never thought about what non-concentric bores would do when choked. It has to push them out of round... right?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: avator on May 03, 2014, 11:04:32 PM
LOL... me too. The "69 tootsie roll" benji got my palm twice. Ever get a blood blister on top of a blood blister? Not so good. I showed her how to hold the breech as if she were pinching the rear sight and push downward on her thigh. It worked pretty well for her. Betty Lou truly loves shooting these things as much as the rest of us do, a pinched finger ain't gonna slow her down. The other day she showed me a big bruise on her leg from pumping the benji then turned right around and said she wanted to shoot it. When she gets tired of pumping or cocking a break barrel, she goes right for the PCP or her Hornet that cocks really easy. The airhawks, Beeman Kodiak and Nitro Venom give a bit of a fight but she troopers on.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on May 03, 2014, 11:22:21 PM
Gotta like that girl. Just gotta...

 ;D
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on May 04, 2014, 12:20:30 AM
I've never thought about what non-concentric bores would do when choked. It has to push them out of round... right?

I would think so - probably why I had to really push to get the pellet thru the muzzle.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on May 04, 2014, 02:08:46 PM
Made a scope change on my Stealth. The BSA Edge is a nice little scope.
(http://i1364.photobucket.com/albums/r726/George_Bowen/My%20toys/Stealth%201/StealthwithBSA_zps50b798a5.jpg) (http://s1364.photobucket.com/user/George_Bowen/media/My%20toys/Stealth%201/StealthwithBSA_zps50b798a5.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: avator on May 04, 2014, 02:31:43 PM
Nice job... I don't think the extended barrel is for me. We are happy with our 1377 carbines but, I think we are really going to enjoy the dueling P17s in the original platforms.... only steroided     ;D ;) 8)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on May 04, 2014, 05:34:56 PM
Boats,

I went back thru this thread.  To detune mine, I chucked the piston up in my lathe and bored its face.  I set the tool at 45 degrees of lead and bored to a max dia. of .900" and to a depth of .065".  That lowered the cocking force to 20 pounds.  It works well for me.


   So my question is... those of you who detuned... how deep did you make the dish in the piston? And was it just a uniform concave dish?
[/quote]

I think Bob H is the only one who de-tuned. My guess would be a countersink bit.
[/quote]
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stonykill on May 04, 2014, 06:01:08 PM
Boats,

I went back thru this thread.  To detune mine, I chucked the piston up in my lathe and bored its face.  I set the tool at 45 degrees of lead and bored to a max dia. of .900" and to a depth of .065".  That lowered the cocking force to 20 pounds.  It works well for me.


   So my question is... those of you who detuned... how deep did you make the dish in the piston? And was it just a uniform concave dish?

I think Bob H is the only one who de-tuned. My guess would be a countersink bit.
[/quote]
[/quote]

 thanks! It seems Rob and I are interchangable  ;D 

   
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on May 04, 2014, 09:55:41 PM
LOL... if you are going to let a little senility bother you... you better run!

I completely spaced getting construction pics of the dueling set, too. The guns shoot well, though, so I'm guessing I didn't forget any parts...  :-\ We'll know soon.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: avator on May 04, 2014, 10:02:21 PM
Pardon the pun but......... WE'RE PUMPED !!!      lol

The proverbial wait is on...

Don't worry about the pics we'll take some.
Thanks man.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on May 19, 2014, 08:33:11 AM
:)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on May 19, 2014, 09:08:43 AM
(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=49115.0;attach=83657;image):)

An improvement? Can't figure where you are tapping this into, or what for....hint?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on May 19, 2014, 09:18:32 AM
It will go into a tapped hole in the valve body, and the piston will be relieved just enough to close over it's head... MSP.

It's a forged steel (3K) 1/8" plug (drilled, then bored), and a shortened Ninja valve.

Time to take these little sweeties into the next level of speed... no?

Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on May 19, 2014, 09:28:15 AM
It will go into a tapped hole in the valve body, and the piston will be relieved just enough to close over it's head... MSP.

It's a forged steel (3K) 1/8" plug (drilled, then bored), and a shortened Ninja valve.

Time to take these little sweeties into the next level of speed... no?

Homemade "check valve".

Looking at the "crimp" holding the cylinder and valve together I'm not sure how long it will hold up to the increased pressures. I'm no engineer mind you just going by "looks". Besides that the reason I got the P17 was because it is a "single" stroke......now I'm looking to find a Daisy 953 or 853 to go along with it.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on May 19, 2014, 09:30:35 AM
Hi Guys,

I took the 10" barreled p17 to the farm yesterday.  It has a C-P Tactical red dot on it.  My wife and I sat in our folding chairs and rolled beverage cans around the yard.  She was shooting a QB 78 deluxe with a 4 power scope.  We were calling our shots, our goal was to lift and spin the cans.  I could hold my own out to about twenty yards, beyond that wind gusts were a big factor.  The trick is to hit the cans in the bottom that is where the material is the thickest, and more of the pellet's energy is spent there.

The 10 inch is on a slightly mod'd P17 with a light trigger and a piece of bicycle inner tube pulled up over the grip.

Eric's drop in system is simply great. It creates a very good breech seal and does away with a critical length dimension.

I have four barrels that Eric has tweaked, all 4 take P17s to a new level of accuracy. His hour glass breech is a pure joy and his bearing equipped trigger is so precise.

I made a wrong move about 8 weeks ago,  my back is better now.  I'm just not up to serious paper punching.

BobH.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on May 19, 2014, 11:07:31 AM
Rob, that crimp serves as a mount only... there are no forces acting on it other than those exerted by the crimp itself.

Bob, glad to hear you are feeling better! I've been rattling a lot of cans lately, too. Good "therapy".  ;D  Paper can wait....
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: DavidS on July 01, 2014, 05:42:59 AM
Wow there are a lot of good ideas in this thread.   Now I have to make my P17 into a .22 and convert it to MSP :) .     This is making me wonder about the possibilities of converting a Daisy 953 to MSP as well.

Then I will have to do some trigger work.

And I am going to have to read this thread a few more times to absorb all of the information.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 01, 2014, 05:00:19 PM
I'm a bit busy atm, but I'm looking forward to playing with MSP in these. I'm curious what kind of power these can produce with that, and a long barrel.

Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: lognom on July 02, 2014, 02:31:38 PM
Hi,
   I've been following this thread in awe at the mod skill level and ingenuity, both of which I sadly lack. I want to add a 10" barrel  or (barrel extension to the current barrel to bring the total to 10") and tko to my p17. Is it possible to add the barrel/extension without machining of the the barrel and plastic slide? If so, can anyone here recommend a aftermarket supplier? Those are the only mods I want to make. I'm happy with the sights and trigger pull.

Regards,
Lloyd

 
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on July 02, 2014, 02:38:41 PM
Hi,
   I've been following this thread in awe at the mod skill level and ingenuity, both of which I sadly lack. I want to add a 10" barrel  or (barrel extension to the current barrel to bring the total to 10") and tko to my p17. Is it possible to add the barrel/extension without machining of the the barrel and plastic slide? If so, can anyone here recommend a aftermarket supplier? Those are the only mods I want to make. I'm happy with the sights and trigger pull.

Regards,
Lloyd

you will need to drill out the upper (slide) and install longer barrel. No commercially available barrels. You will need to make your own or find someone to make one for you. A couple guys on this site turn barrels for these guns. You would most likely need to send them the gun if you can't drill the slide though.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 02, 2014, 06:38:10 PM
Turning barrels down for these is straightforward... but, it helps accuracy significantly to chamber them properly, too.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on July 02, 2014, 07:09:42 PM
Folks,

I have several barrels that Eric has chambered and crowned.  His "WCO" chambers are excellent and his external breach modification makes loading much easier, money well spent.

Eric's modified barrels are what I shoot in the 5 Meter Pistol Matches that this forum sponsors. ( sometimes, I do well)

Bob Haverstock
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: lognom on July 03, 2014, 01:46:50 PM
Thanks for all your replies. They answered my questions.

Lloyd
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 03, 2014, 02:05:45 PM
Sometimes?? Bob, your "bad" days have a striking resemblance to my good ones.  ;D

Guys, I offer, outright, barrel/upper combos that pop right on with only pin removal and replacement. You can change back and forth at will, without affecting the sighting on either. A 10" blank (9.75 finished) with custom chamber and profile, costs only a few bucks more than shipping your upper here, and waiting for machine time. Owners of any of my SEs or customs get 10% off (as always), and that works out to a few bucks less, total.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 26, 2014, 09:51:35 PM
I've been wanting to try bed liner on the grips... I like the feel of it when nicely textured. It'll be a few days before I can thrash it, but I got a bit of overspray... and had a heck of a time removing it after only a few hours.

Has anyone tried painting these, or know of the results of an attempt?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on October 16, 2014, 11:20:53 PM
Guys, look what came in the mail from Mrodair. It's freakin' HUGE! 9 oz heavier than my S1...

Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: hutnicks on October 17, 2014, 01:01:08 AM
Geebus wept! That's the airgun equiv of the old Brigadier Pistol. :o

So I guess when you factor it all in that's what? About 10 cents and ounce for the gun?

Love to see some accuracy and chrony results (before you multi stroke it)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on October 17, 2014, 06:39:29 PM
I was thinking the same thing... but, the compression is adjustable (without interference) to a point where the gun cannot be cocked by humans. There is more than enough stroke, but the rating of 320fps is about all you can get before the valve locks. There is a lot of power hidden in this gun, but we have to get it past the valve.

The trigger has no adjustment screw, so no second stage. It feels like a good first stage, then fires without any hitch. I found it quite disconcerting, so finding it identical to 17s/120Ds, in all other respects, was pleasant. I swapped in a coated 17 trigger, and it works great.

Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: avator on October 17, 2014, 06:48:30 PM
So, I'm assuming you got the .22 at that rating right? I want one but I think I'm gonna go with the .177. My Birthday is coming up and I think I can get Betty Lou's approval. If not, I'll just have to buy 2. lol   I talked to Mike this morning and he has them in stock.  He offers about a $20 discount if you buy 2. I'm thinking if you miss a pest with this thing, you could throw it at them. Or swing it like a golf club.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on October 17, 2014, 07:02:50 PM
Yup, .22... and, you could effectively club something with this, that you wouldn't dare shoot.  ;D 

I didn't know Mike had these in stock.



Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: hutnicks on October 17, 2014, 09:14:07 PM
I was thinking the same thing... but, the compression is adjustable (without interference) to a point where the gun cannot be cocked by humans. There is more than enough stroke, but the rating of 320fps is about all you can get before the valve locks. There is a lot of power hidden in this gun, but we have to get it past the valve.

The trigger has no adjustment screw, so no second stage. It feels like a good first stage, then fires without any hitch. I found it quite disconcerting, so finding it identical to 17s/120Ds, in all other respects, was pleasant. I swapped in a coated 17 trigger, and it works great.

Well, considering it appears to be about 14 feet long I going to figure leverage won't be an issue if it gets multi stroked. What does the valve assembly look like? Is there enough meat in there to play around with?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: avator on October 18, 2014, 06:38:44 AM
Yup, .22... and, you could effectively club something with this, that you wouldn't dare shoot.  ;D 

I didn't know Mike had these in stock.
Mike at Mrod not Mike Mellick... sorry I should have specified.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: avator on October 18, 2014, 06:41:08 AM
I was thinking the same thing... but, the compression is adjustable (without interference) to a point where the gun cannot be cocked by humans. There is more than enough stroke, but the rating of 320fps is about all you can get before the valve locks. There is a lot of power hidden in this gun, but we have to get it past the valve.

The trigger has no adjustment screw, so no second stage. It feels like a good first stage, then fires without any hitch. I found it quite disconcerting, so finding it identical to 17s/120Ds, in all other respects, was pleasant. I swapped in a coated 17 trigger, and it works great.

Well, considering it appears to be about 14 feet long I going to figure leverage won't be an issue if it gets multi stroked. What does the valve assembly look like? Is there enough meat in there to play around with?
I guess I missed something somewhere...
Have you multi-stroked the P-17?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on October 18, 2014, 03:40:38 PM
Stuart, I haven't torn down the pistol yet... just did a lock tune. Soon, though. I'll get some pics.

Bill, I have made a valve for MSP, and started a fixture to install it properly... but time is short here, atm. It'll happen... :)

Guys, the 400 is built like a truck.  I think it was planned as a far more powerful gun than it is. It will be fun to mod... but if the barrel in mine is any indication, they will need a new one. It's, frankly, junk.

The chamber is cut with something too large and with no taper. It would be OK if it wasn't cut way too deep (CPUM shown, dropped in)... and if the rifling wasn't indistinct. My chamber reamer can't help this one. I'm thinking a good 12" might be perfect for this project.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: avator on October 18, 2014, 03:44:49 PM
Just keep me in mind when you get back to that MSP.
I did buy 2 more of those P-17s and for now, they are stock.

Thanks Eric.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on October 18, 2014, 04:00:42 PM
Bet on it, Bill. To say that you and Betty Lou are high on the "preferred customer" list would be today's understatement.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: avator on October 18, 2014, 04:29:06 PM
You're much too kind sir... I'll pass the compliment on.... shall I include the standard "wink"?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on October 18, 2014, 04:37:52 PM
If you would, please?

 ;)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: hutnicks on October 18, 2014, 07:20:43 PM
Stuart, I haven't torn down the pistol yet... just did a lock tune. Soon, though. I'll get some pics.

Bill, I have made a valve for MSP, and started a fixture to install it properly... but time is short here, atm. It'll happen... :)

Guys, the 400 is built like a truck.  I think it was planned as a far more powerful gun than it is. It will be fun to mod... but if the barrel in mine is any indication, they will need a new one. It's, frankly, junk.

The chamber is cut with something too large and with no taper. It would be OK if it wasn't cut way too deep (CPUM shown, dropped in)... and if the rifling wasn't indistinct. My chamber reamer can't help this one. I'm thinking a good 12" might be perfect for this project.

Hmm. No multio quote on this board :o

@Avator.  If your question was aimed at me, no I havent msp'd a 17 .......yet.  I have an HW40 and it's not getting modded except for a grip sleeve:)
P17(Marksman) whatever its being sold as currently are in the near future. I was contemplating Phils mod, which is over in the crossman area of Yellowsville
http://www.network54.com/Forum/275684/thread/1305736542/Beeman+P-17+multi-stroke+finished (http://www.network54.com/Forum/275684/thread/1305736542/Beeman+P-17+multi-stroke+finished) Hope its legal to post a link here.

Now on to the handheld behemoth. P17 might take a back seat to this one if there is enough wiggle room to do some modding here. The barrel is no big deal in my mind. Annoying to be sure. I'd love to know how it groups out at 10m then at 15 or 20. Barrels are pretty cheap these days and that might make it fun to try various lengths if a quick change fitting can be implemented.
With enough free time and resources a carbine kit with stock could be a possibility with a short barrel to turn it back into a pistol.

As the saying goes, time will tell.

Be nice to source that pistol in Canada rather than having to plan a trip to pick one (or two) up.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on October 19, 2014, 04:15:14 AM
As promised: Valves. From L to R: P17, 120D, S400. When time permits, I'll try harder o-rings, and other seal materials... we'll see what that and pre-loading the hammer (7 shaped thing) spring can get us. The seats on all these are 6mm, so we don't need bigger.... just a stronger hammer and/or less "sticky" seal.

The 400 has 10mm more (effective, determined by intake hole location) stroke than the others. All have 2.5mm ports. I don't see a .25 as out of the question.


edit: Don't know what I was thinking.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: hutnicks on October 19, 2014, 11:07:54 PM
Sincerely wish this site had a subscribed threads feature :'(

So no harum scarum wierdness in there. Pretty stock looking stuff all round.
Hm an LW 177, 22 and 25 trifecta barrel set might be fun.
If you could get 400 fps or better out of a 25 on that it would make a wicked little pest control solution.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on October 19, 2014, 11:22:24 PM
Sincerely wish this site had a subscribed threads feature :'(

So no harum scarum wierdness in there. Pretty stock looking stuff all round.
Hm an LW 177, 22 and 25 trifecta barrel set might be fun.
If you could get 400 fps or better out of a 25 on that it would make a wicked little pest control solution.

In your "reply" - click the little "+" next to "Attachments and other options, then click "Notify me of replies".......you will then be "subscribed"
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: hutnicks on October 19, 2014, 11:32:05 PM
Yes I got that far. But this system seems to lack a "View subscribed threads" feature.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on October 20, 2014, 01:13:09 AM
The springs differ by .22mm (or so...lol). The 400 spring is quite a bit stiffer.

The o-ring on the valve is very soft. Too soft... and, it didn't take long to figure out why they went that way: The 90 duro Viton rings I use on the others can't be forced over the valve's tip without destroying them. I have lathe work coming up, and will turn the tip to match the 17/120s. If this seems a bit fussy, ask anyone hot rodding a PCP what a difference valve seal composition can make.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: hutnicks on October 20, 2014, 01:24:32 AM
That sounds like economy of manufacture in action. Cast the valve assembly but no budget to do any finishing.

And folks wonder why euroguns are so expensive ;D

The seal on any gun whether it be pump, springer, PCP  (Am I the only one who remembers Angel Dust:)) CO2 it's always critical and the first thing anyone should look at when doing a tune.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on October 20, 2014, 04:06:54 AM
That didn't take long.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: hutnicks on October 20, 2014, 04:48:29 AM
She cleans up nice. Did you do a polish all the way round? Looked like there were some tool marks on the brass in the first pic.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on October 21, 2014, 04:49:54 PM
I only turned the tip, just enough to let the ring over it.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on October 22, 2014, 12:48:30 AM
I was looking at the valve, intending to check clearances for porting, and found a major difference in this gun: The "shelf" at the sealing point you find in a 17/120 is not there... It's tapered, instead. This would lead to better flow, but also may have wedged the o-ring.

It looks like I can port without worry... and it's practically screaming for a Delrin tip.

A couple dozen high comp cycles folded the piston's pin. No surprise there...



Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: hutnicks on October 22, 2014, 12:53:05 AM
Yes. They tend to make the pins in just about every pumper a fail point. I suspect it's more to do with liability than any cost cutting measures. Time for a chunk of drill rod.

Good news on the valve assembly though.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on October 22, 2014, 07:39:51 AM
I've decided to go with a Stage II treatment. In planning the lever (slide) mods I found a nice touch... a threaded nose bushing made to accomplish what my set screwed bushing, for S2 drop in (stock length) barrels, does: set the breech tight against the port seal.

 8)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on October 22, 2014, 08:03:24 AM
Did someone mention carbines?

21" Marlin Micro Groove:
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: StevenG on October 22, 2014, 08:18:05 AM
You are making this too hard on me, do I get a P17 stage2 or 400? Soon Mike is going to HPA the CP-1 so then I probably need one of those. Any plans to mod those? Decisions, decisions.

Life is tough. Airgun people problems.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on October 22, 2014, 12:18:59 PM
There are a lot of guys who can't wait to get their grubby paws on a CP-1.... myself included.

11" barrel.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: hutnicks on October 22, 2014, 04:13:05 PM
Rotsa interesting stuff going on in here.

Any Idea how much the CP-1 is going to retail for?

On the carbine. Does a barrel that long still clear the grip while cocking or did you have to do some modding there?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: oneied on October 22, 2014, 06:06:06 PM
+1 on that CP1. I want 1 also!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on October 23, 2014, 06:52:31 AM
+1 on that CP1. I want 1 also!
They are gonna be fun, and I bet there will be a solid aftermarket soon.

Rotsa interesting stuff going on in here.

Any Idea how much the CP-1 is going to retail for?

On the carbine. Does a barrel that long still clear the grip while cocking or did you have to do some modding there?
No, no idea, but I'd like to know, too.

The long barrel fits fine... in fact, a TKO will fit without mods.

The 90 duro ring helps... just not nearly enough. This thing is still much slower than my #1. The valve wedges tightly, there's a bunch of speed still left in it.



Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on October 31, 2014, 08:01:38 AM
Mr. Melick was kind enough to sell me his last sample 400, at a good price. When conditions permit, I'll turn this into a .177 WC target gun.

The .22 barrel is identical (unfortunately...lol) to the first. In spite of that, I really like the guns. Solid.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on October 31, 2014, 01:48:57 PM
Set it up with the .177 (WCO), and cut the bushing reduction to only 11mm long... so it could be adjusted easily without removing the barrel, or making a special tool.

I'll do a trigger job, lead it up, and get some #s.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: hutnicks on November 01, 2014, 09:36:40 PM
Took me a minute to figure that picture out.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on November 02, 2014, 04:01:01 AM
They say that "a picture is worth a thousand words"... so, mine have to be worth a couple hundred, right?

I try to take pics that explain things (with limited success), as typing is uncomfortable for me. I'm no longer any good at that "repetitive motion" thing...

I like this set up. I can set the breech clearance properly with a dime.



Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: hutnicks on November 02, 2014, 11:21:53 AM
Carpal tunnel can be a bear.

Great set up. I had just not seen a pic from the front with the action open before
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on November 06, 2014, 07:43:01 AM
Well, I broke the .177 in, cleaned and lubed it, and set up the chrony...

The valve locked. Turns out that the lube allowed the valve to wedge deeper. I had to turn the compression down, quite a bit, to get it to fully dump the charge.

294fps... :o
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: hutnicks on November 06, 2014, 12:07:18 PM
Oops.

Little valvework about to be added into the mix?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: bugg100 on December 03, 2014, 12:17:45 PM
Fantastic thread, Stalwart!

I ordered a p17 from Dick's for 30.27 shipped during Black Friday weekend. It should be here Friday.  Can't wait now that I have read this monster thread.


Are there any XSP 120D's currently for retail anywhere?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on December 05, 2014, 06:08:12 AM
Fantastic thread, Stalwart!

I ordered a p17 from Dick's for 30.27 shipped during Black Friday weekend. It should be here Friday.  Can't wait now that I have read this monster thread.


Are there any XSP 120D's currently for retail anywhere?

Thanks! It's been a bunch of fun.

You might want to talk to Mike at Flying Dragon Air Rifles. I understand that a shipment of 120s is due in right about now.
Oops.

Little valvework about to be added into the mix?
Yup. Given some time, I'll sort this all out. For the .177, I'm considering a hybrid.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on December 06, 2014, 10:49:22 PM
The Hybrid.

The 17 valve/tube dropped right in. I made a Delrin stroke limiter to keep it from pulling the piston out, turned the compression all the way up, and I've been shooting it.

I'll chrony soon, but (not surprisingly) it seems at least as fast as any 10" .177 I've ever built. More than enough for target work. It's a lot easier to cock than a full compression 17.

Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on December 29, 2014, 05:47:04 PM
Is anyone else here messing around with the 400?

If so, your opinion?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: RHytonen on January 18, 2015, 06:40:40 PM
There are a few 17 builds in my near future, and some will be rather extreme. Started on one that will prove to be mild compared to later tries. Comments and suggestions are more than appreciated... and if anyone has done a mod that isn't already all over the net, you are welcome to post it here. Here goes...

Milled off the fake slide release and the sights in prep for a full length Picatinny rail, and cut a Marlin Micro Groove .22 barrel blank to 10 inches.

OHHHH-HOH!
THAT'S what I'll do with my eBay .22MG barrel!
Can you put it (as long as possible) in an SPA S400 pistol?

Or should I save it for the to-be-PCP'd SPA (CD-1)  CO2 pistol with the match grip?
Think to come of it;) there's enough length there for both.

Now that I'm thinking .300 or .308 for the FD rifle... and the 392 is inoperable (prob'ly just seals)
I have an awful lot of .22 pellets saved up...

-Rod
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 18, 2015, 10:00:50 PM
I think you'd be happy with a 10-11 in the 400... and leave the rest for the PCP.

I have a few MGed pistols, including a 400, and they work great. I have the best luck with CPHPs.... nice fit, and good energy.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 21, 2015, 08:54:45 PM
Rod, where did you go?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Bob H. on April 27, 2015, 10:17:53 AM
Eric,

have you done anymore with the 400?

BobH.

I think you'd be happy with a 10-11 in the 400... and leave the rest for the PCP.

I have a few MGed pistols, including a 400, and they work great. I have the best luck with CPHPs.... nice fit, and good energy.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on June 19, 2015, 12:10:53 PM
Hey Bob! I wasn't notified about your reply, and just saw it.

To answer your question: I have been shooting the hybrid, but haven't gotten to the power mods yet. There seems to be little interest in the 400s, so any progress on them will be just for personal fun.

If you get one, holler, and I'll get back into them a bit more. There is plenty of things that can be done, I just need some motivation...
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 26, 2015, 06:11:21 AM
The MSP is going to work. I decided against the custom valve, and for a Foster nipple that fits hex keys. This takes a lot less time, and allows the easiest user removal for replacing the o-ring in the valve.

This set up puts all the stored air in the valve body, so there is no pressure trying to force the cylinder away from it's crimps... and allows a full stroke, if needed.

I'm not sure this won't work better with a shorter stroke. It remains to be seen whether, after I drill out the piston to clear this, it's better to go for 3 short strokes rather than 2 long for a full charge.

This may also need work to get a quick, complete dump. I'm thinking a stiffer hammer spring might be helpful. We'll find out.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 29, 2015, 08:01:41 AM
Just finished the MSP set up, and tested it for valve function. It cycles properly... I'll have it in a gun soon. Just don't know which one, yet.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 29, 2015, 09:02:39 AM
I put it in my S1, and got predictable partial dump.

I've been pondering increasing the plenum, too. There's plenty of experimenting left to do... a lot left to learn.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: BigTinBoat on July 29, 2015, 10:02:43 AM
What did you do to the piston without having a whole bunch of "headspace"?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 29, 2015, 09:33:09 PM
Rob, I made the intake valve's counterbore pretty tight fitting.

I put in the hammer spring from an S400 (much heavier). No real change... still leaving a bunch of air behind.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 30, 2015, 01:47:53 AM
In the search for easy plenum, I calculated the volume that can be had by shortening the exhaust valve's sleeve. It's a very loose internal fit, so it is not so much a guide as a stuffer.

4mm will net .134cc. Added to the stock .77cc (from this source: http://www.network54.com/Forum/275684/thread/1305736542/Beeman+P-17+multi-stroke+finished (http://www.network54.com/Forum/275684/thread/1305736542/Beeman+P-17+multi-stroke+finished) ), it comes to .904cc. He ran with 1.33cc, and estimated his speeds were around 600fps.

Not a lot of gain for the trouble, so I'm pondering a custom intake valve again... with as much plenum as we could want, and the valve's cut as big as possible for flow (valve body opened up to join it's plenum with the intake valve's.

This design has a lot more stroke than his. I want to keep it all until everything else is done, then shorten it (drill a new breather hole, closer to the valve) if needed to spread out the pumps. We have a lot more swept volume than we need right now, with just 2 pumps. My goal is to put as much of it to work as possible.... much longer barrels are in the future.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on July 30, 2015, 03:14:45 AM
BTW... the Hybrid S400 (at full compression) is running just fine with a stock 17 hammer spring now. The 400 spring in the MSP 17 didn't make an appreciable difference... yet, at least.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on August 01, 2015, 02:23:54 PM
I've gotten all the plenum I can out of this... with the exhaust valve trimmed back as described above, it comes to just about 1.1cc.

Any more will have to be built into the intake valve housing.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on August 01, 2015, 02:37:54 PM
Phil doesn't say anything about opening the hole between his intake valve body and the pre-existing plenum. That hole is tiny... a serious bottleneck, and I have to wonder how much use he got out of the increased volume, especially with a stock length barrel.

With this set up, the smallest restriction is the port, even opened up as much as possible.

Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on August 01, 2015, 03:02:45 PM
Seals well.

Now to figure out an intake valve housing that can be made with choices of plenum volume, so it can be set up to efficiently use short or long barrels.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on August 02, 2015, 05:32:04 PM
Anyone happen to know the plenum volumes of any of the popular MSPs out there?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on August 02, 2015, 06:34:03 PM
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=71683 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=71683)

Bob. Again. I owe the guy so much beer.... and, I don't even know if he drinks...
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on August 03, 2015, 08:05:10 PM
Well, the numbers are crunched, and they look encouraging. With a custom piston added to the mix, the gun will handle a 20" .25 barrel... at 50% valve to barrel volume. An expert WAG (not mine... a real expert) puts the max output (determined by port size, our max is 4mm) at ~ 30fpe.

It will be interesting to see what can be done with a .25 10" barrel. This gun will have real usefulness as a hunter of real pests.

:)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: StevenG on August 04, 2015, 10:57:26 AM
How many pumps to 30fpe?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Matt15 on August 04, 2015, 12:21:49 PM
Well, the numbers are crunched, and they look encouraging. With a custom piston added to the mix, the gun will handle a 20" .25 barrel... at 50% valve to barrel volume. An expert WAG (not mine... a real expert) puts the max output (determined by port size, our max is 4mm) at ~ 30fpe.

It will be interesting to see what can be done with a .25 10" barrel. This gun will have real usefulness as a hunter of real pests.

:)

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=86793.msg858044#new (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=86793.msg858044#new)

With a 25% valve and a 20" .25 barrel I got 38 FPE (806 FPS) with 38 pumps in a crosman 1400 tube and 25.4 gr pellets. i also got 30 FPE at 23 pumps. My pump tube volume is 30 cc and my valve volume is 4 cc.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on August 05, 2015, 10:59:19 AM
How many pumps to 30fpe?

I don't have a good guess... soon, though.

Well, the numbers are crunched, and they look encouraging. With a custom piston added to the mix, the gun will handle a 20" .25 barrel... at 50% valve to barrel volume. An expert WAG (not mine... a real expert) puts the max output (determined by port size, our max is 4mm) at ~ 30fpe.

It will be interesting to see what can be done with a .25 10" barrel. This gun will have real usefulness as a hunter of real pests.

:)

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=86793.msg858044#new (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=86793.msg858044#new)

With a 25% valve and a 20" .25 barrel I got 38 FPE (806 FPS) with 38 pumps in a crosman 1400 tube and 25.4 gr pellets. i also got 30 FPE at 23 pumps. My pump tube volume is 30 cc and my valve volume is 4 cc.

Hope this helps.

It certainly does, Matt.

We have a stock swept volume of 49cc. Even with the biggest intake valve bodies, we should have enough to work with to keep it from being too tedious.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on August 05, 2015, 12:55:18 PM
With an 8cc total volume (50%), we should get about 35cc of swept volume. This is for the eventual carbine... a .25 pistol (10") will leave us with about 45cc.

Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Matt15 on August 05, 2015, 01:40:23 PM
With an 8cc total volume (50%), we should get about 35cc of swept volume. This is for the eventual carbine... a .25 pistol (10") will leave us with about 45cc.

With a 50% valve you will be wasting alot of air unless you plan on it retaining some air after each shot. 30% would be best for a pump and dump.


Also are these going to be for sale? What tube are you going to use for the pump tube?   
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on August 05, 2015, 02:00:13 PM
I'm doing all my designing based on a max of 50%... and hope to offer a few volumes so a guy can tailor his gun to his use. I figure more than 8cc will never see use, and the choice of volumes may end up in 1.5 or 2cc increments.

I'm using the stock (25mm dia) tube.

The less volume a guy chooses, the less pumps it will take to get each cc up to pressure... as I'm stealing valve volume from swept volume.

As I've said before, I'm in this for the long haul. I plan to offer these, and more goodies, as soon as I'm happy with their performance. I'm not only designing these mods for effect, but put a lot of thought into designing for cost effective manufacture.

We still haven't hit the apex of the developmental curve of these guns. Lots more fun to be had...
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Matt15 on August 05, 2015, 02:28:17 PM
I'm doing all my designing based on a max of 50%... and hope to offer a few volumes so a guy can tailor his gun to his use. I figure more than 8cc will never see use, and the choice of volumes may end up in 1.5 or 2cc increments.

I'm using the stock (25mm dia) tube.

The less volume a guy chooses, the less pumps it will take to get each cc up to pressure... as I'm stealing valve volume from swept volume.

As I've said before, I'm in this for the long haul. I plan to offer these, and more goodies, as soon as I'm happy with their performance. I'm not only designing these mods for effect, but put a lot of thought into designing for cost effective manufacture.

We still haven't hit the apex of the developmental curve of these guns. Lots more fun to be had...

Okay. Well I am excited to see what kind of performance you will.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on August 05, 2015, 02:47:21 PM
Me too!  ;D

Given the present company, I'm really enjoying the process as much as anything. My original goal was to create a useful 12fpe pistol, but with what I've learned since... I'm all grins!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: StevenG on January 21, 2016, 03:08:42 PM
Gentlemen I present to you the start of the one and only, so far, P25.
(http://s17.postimg.org/e5qp1yazz/P25_ingredients.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)


Some folks have made 22s and for a short while there were some XSP 120Ds available with both barrels. I thought why limit ourselves to just those two little calibers.
You know for those bigger "soda" cans. The 22 oz variety. Those things can be vicious.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 21, 2016, 03:36:14 PM
Yeah, if you go after Tall Boys while under gunned... it can get messy real quick.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Matt15 on January 21, 2016, 03:39:50 PM
What happened to your .25 build stalwart?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 21, 2016, 03:52:57 PM
Back burnered. Shortly after my last post, in Aug, the XS60 world turned upside down. Been adjusting to the new conditions since. No real time for my own toys, right now. :( Just some puttering, if I keep it simple.

Steven is building what I had hoped to, to a very large degree... we'll get some numbers before deciding whether MSP fits his needs (it might not).

Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: Matt15 on January 21, 2016, 03:56:29 PM
Back burnered. Shortly after my last post, in Aug, the XS60 world turned upside down. Been adjusting to the new conditions since. No real time for my own toys, right now. :( Just some puttering, if I keep it simple.

Steven is building what I had hoped to, to a very large degree... we'll get some numbers before deciding whether MSP fits his needs (it might not).

Okay. Good luck!!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: StevenG on January 22, 2016, 10:34:50 AM
Getting there
(http://s20.postimg.org/rshu47in1/100_5240.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 22, 2016, 01:34:56 PM
I think it should be known that Steven was planning a 12" barrel. The rest, he had no use for.

As soon as he knew how much useful blank we could get out of the MRod barrel, he figured out what would be left (something just over 7")... and asked me if I could use the rest in anything. I have a revolver project cooking on another thread, and told him that I would need 8" (just a bit too much)... but, that it wouldn't go to waste (something would come up).

He insisted that we cut the barrel to leave me 8". I offered him nothing for his scrap... yet he was determined to make the $4 per inch barrel serve 2 masters. I didn't object, but made it clear that the point was that he get what he wanted... being a paid customer, and all. He insisted.

This is the first time I have ever cut what I wanted off a blank, and left whatever was left over for the guy who paid for the dang thing... it felt a little odd as I chucked it up.

I took the 8", and a few thou to clean up the cut... then finished the profile to fit his 17. He got 11.5". We "wasted" precisely .5" of that barrel. $2.

There are guys here on GTA who could give us a very educated guess as to the fps he gave up.... my WAG is only a few, but that's not the point.

Thank you, Steven.



Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: StevenG on January 22, 2016, 01:42:06 PM
Eric is leaving out a key detail.

I am the trouble maker who suggested the revolver become a .25.

I however did not know he took an extra few thousandths and do of course expect to be compensated for them. I figure a couple more photos and he will have worked off his $0.008 debt.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on January 22, 2016, 01:52:26 PM
You've got a deal... and I have it in writing.

See what you did?!?
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: StevenG on February 10, 2016, 11:21:54 AM
The end the pellet goes in:
(http://s20.postimg.org/w3900itp5/100_5266.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/w3900itp5/)

The end the pellet goes out:
(http://s20.postimg.org/5gwjbjpi1/100_5269.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/5gwjbjpi1/)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: StevenG on February 11, 2016, 01:18:05 PM
Drum roll please:

10 shot string, mind you still the first 20 shots and shooting 19.91 grain .25 pellets:
L: 304.6... H: 311.8

So we have 4.1ft/lbs on the low end. I think that is plenty of smack down for feral tallboys.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on February 12, 2016, 12:20:45 PM
It should be mentioned that this is with 19.91gr H&N FTT pellets. It was fitted for them, but should cheerfully take a wide range of others.

Also, it was chronied with the second batch of 10 pellets ever fired in the gun. I have run quite a few since (it's like throwing bowling balls, the plinking targets react with horror... too much fun!), so the numbers will go up (and ESs down a touch). I will test 1 more time, after all the S2 mods are done, just before shipping. I'll post them here.

More then.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on February 12, 2016, 12:29:12 PM
Seems Steven and I were thinking the same thing, at the same time.

Happens backstage, too. This is a truly fun project!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: StevenG on February 12, 2016, 12:40:52 PM
I had hoped the ft/lbs would clue folks in, but to make it clear a reminder about caliber was needed.

I will try to provide some action shots once I get it. For now nothing that makes a mess, since it is going to be in the basement.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on February 13, 2016, 06:39:37 AM
Every shooter is different, but I found a hold that works well. Almost eliminates the muzzle's jump.

I balance the gun on my middle finger, with my little finger off the gun. I hold it as lightly as possible... it pushes back with almost no rise. Very repeatable.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on February 18, 2016, 12:37:51 PM
Guys, the now defunct MM Vendor gate contained the Owner's Thread that had this tutorial on valve seal problems/ring replacement in it, I am putting it here for future reference:


"Pull the 3 actuators from the valve body, so you don't have to fight pulling the valve. Wrestling with the valve with those in place can sometimes cause damage.

Grip the valve stem with padded pliers (I use leather), and take the nut off. It's staked, so you may have to take a bit off... but try to see if the nut will pass first.

Pull the valve apart, and look carefully for scratches or burrs on the stem... then roll the stem on something flat to see if it got bent. At this point, it can easily be polished (good for consistency).

Re-assemble using thread locker, and re-stake if there is enough material to do so. Be sure the spring is not compressed into a shorter length (it is needed to keep the valve closed until pressure takes over)... this can happen if force is used on it during dis-assembly. The springs are pretty soft.

If the valve operates smoothly (with a touch of lithium), it's ready to re-install."

This applies to all variants. Please follow it carefully, as getting rough with the dis-assembly could cost you your gun's function... by either compressing the spring to a point of resetting it to too short, or nicking the valve seat. The former can be fixed, the latter cannot.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: oneied on February 19, 2016, 01:19:25 PM
Guys, the now defunct MM Vendor gate contained the Owner's Thread that had this tutorial on valve seal problems/ring replacement in it, I am putting it here for future reference:


"Pull the 3 actuators from the valve body, so you don't have to fight pulling the valve. Wrestling with the valve with those in place can sometimes cause damage.

Grip the valve stem with padded pliers (I use leather), and take the nut off. It's staked, so you may have to take a bit off... but try to see if the nut will pass first.

Pull the valve apart, and look carefully for scratches or burrs on the stem... then roll the stem on something flat to see if it got bent. At this point, it can easily be polished (good for consistency).

Re-assemble using thread locker, and re-stake if there is enough material to do so. Be sure the spring is not compressed into a shorter length (it is needed to keep the valve closed until pressure takes over)... this can happen if force is used on it during dis-assembly. The springs are pretty soft.

If the valve operates smoothly (with a touch of lithium), it's ready to re-install."

This applies to all variants. Please follow it carefully, as getting rough with the dis-assembly could cost you your gun's function... by either compressing the spring to a point of resetting it to too short, or nicking the valve seat. The former can be fixed, the latter cannot.

Thanks Eric.  Got mine sorted out. Fingers crossed :o.  When I got it back together it seemed to be doing the same thing.  So while I was thinking what to do next I was cycling it and like I said it seems to be working.  Only time will tell.  Time to get some trigger time and see
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on February 19, 2016, 01:37:09 PM
Good to hear! As you know, I take it personally when any 17 doesn't work...lol. It's an illness... I admit that.  :-[

You are certainly welcome.

Guys, I run into new guns, all the time, that won't seal at first. I lube, then pump them very quickly to get the ring to seal once, and that pressure settles the ring. They function from then on.

A drop of oil in the port, before each session, goes a long way to keeping them reliable.

Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: StevenG on February 19, 2016, 03:21:00 PM
What kind of oil do you recommend?

Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on February 19, 2016, 03:28:39 PM
I use my own blend of synthetics and seal conditioners, to keep well seated rings alive as long as possible (super low ESs)... but, almost anything works. 3 in 1, motor oil, sewing machine lube, etc. will keep them happy.

They aren't picky!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: oneied on February 19, 2016, 03:35:49 PM

Guys, I run into new guns, all the time, that won't seal at first. I lube, then pump them very quickly to get the ring to seal once, and that pressure settles the ring. They function from then on.


If I let the gun sit I still have the problem on the first pump but seems to go away.  I will fully test it the weekend and let you know here
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on February 19, 2016, 03:39:53 PM
When you are done shooting, leave the gun pressurized. This will hasten the ring's settling in. When it is broken in, you will see it has taken a different shape.

LUK how it goes.

Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: oneied on February 20, 2016, 11:32:55 AM
I don't know how long it holds for I haven't timed it. But if I go back in under 10 minute the pressure has expelled
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on February 20, 2016, 04:30:06 PM
Uh ohhh. Sounds like a damaged valve seat.

If you are bothered by the leak down, you can try polishing the seat with an ultrafine (gray) Scotchbrite pad.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on March 01, 2016, 04:29:14 PM
It should be noted that Stalwart Arms is not affiliated, nor has it been, in any way, with VRD LLC, VRD Arms, or Scott Villmow.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: StevenG on March 04, 2016, 11:45:50 AM
Got the P25 yesterday and will soon post some pictures.

For anyone who wants to claim SSPs are recoilless, I have a gun you need to shoot.

My groups are more like patterns at this point, but rest assured that is all my fault. When I have my act together, best I can manage is a couple shots like that at a time, I get one ragged hole. I am sure it would do that all day if I could.

The S2 trigger is awesome. Some takeup, then a little wall and bang. Stalwart needs to figure out how to transplant these triggers into XS60s.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on March 06, 2016, 11:31:06 AM
"Stalwart needs to figure out how to transplant these triggers into XS60s."

If that seemed only remotely possible... it would be my new life's mission.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on December 27, 2017, 11:49:58 PM
Just ran across this, and had to share the lol.

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2017/12/27/nine-year-old-boy-scares-carjacker-stealing-family-truck-aiming-pellet-gun-head-580604 (http://www.bizpacreview.com/2017/12/27/nine-year-old-boy-scares-carjacker-stealing-family-truck-aiming-pellet-gun-head-580604)
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: RHytonen on December 28, 2017, 12:02:21 PM
Rod, where did you go?

Deep into my music....
then CTS reared its ugly head and off to PT twice a week, exercising every day until I die, but it WORKS! I actually managed to avoid surgery.
THEN I caught the "Telly" (Fender Telecaster, country style) bug, and I'm off trying to reach Albert Lee (Q.V, YouTube) as a skill level goal.
After all, I already have some 30-40 years of pro playing, on folk guitar and rock bass (as well as classical instruments.)
An online music store called "zZounds!" made the mistake of offering me credit, (musicians - check 'em out! No credit check..) and now I'm pretty well tooled up (amps, etc) after some guitar maintenance and upgrade projects. (There's a local band forming, around a distant relative of Buck Owens; who has just opened an 'Opry" type music theater here.)

I haven't forgotten the AG goals - just put them off a bit. The parts are somewhat buried  by house "cleaning" projects, and I'm sure my guns all need orings...but a work space wil be freed this winter, then back into the Windowsill Cannon we(?) go. (Unless I win that .300 Lapua sweepstakes, LOL)
I have another spine operation in the future too, but that's been staved off by some very effective PT....even though the MRI's look scary.

Let's talk after New Year's!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: silent_airman on March 02, 2018, 05:29:57 PM
Just revisiting this thread with a problem. I have the .22 Microgroove barrel, standard length, that you sent me and it's been sitting around. So I ordered a stock P17 from PA, thinking, hey, this will make a nice pair. My Stealth in 177 and the stock pistol in 22. So I got the pistol today, went to swap out the barrels, and noticed right off that the 22 barrel will not allow the pistol to fire, nor does the gun open up smoothly. It has to be nearly pried open. I put the 177 barrel back in, pistol functions as it should. I compared the two barrels and they look different. The muzzle end is longer from the shoulder that rests against the front of the gun to the crown. But it seems to fit the hole in the front and is flush against the front. I did notice the groove cut in the 22 barrel that the mounting plate rests in is a different length than the stock barrel's. I think the 22 barrel is a hair longer than the stock one, and it is pushed against the rear seal too much. This is probably why it cannot be opened for cocking and loading smoothly and is why the gun won't fire properly. I am thinking that maybe a little grinding and polishing with my Dremel tool might fix the issue. Worth a try I guess. 

My question is, will the rear seal fit the 22 barrel and provide the seal it needs, or does this need further modding?
Title: Re: Beeman P17... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: DevilsLuck on April 28, 2018, 07:16:09 AM
I've been meaning to ask you... if you had another 17, what would you do to it?

Mine evolved over time according to my tastes, so it would probably be pretty much the same. 
It's a great rig... I can see why.

Guys, what do you think? It's together!
That is super cool!
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on April 30, 2018, 03:49:54 AM
It lives!!

As you can all imagine, the 17s are still a staple here.

SA just became a Xisico dealer, and will be offering the 120Ds (as Special Editions) soon. I'll post it all here.

In the meantime, I'd like to thank all who see the potential here, and choose to exploit it. It's a pretty big club, and I'm proud to be part of it.
Title: Re: Beeman P17 and XSP 120D... Next level builds/mods.
Post by: stalwart on April 30, 2018, 04:55:48 AM
Just revisiting this thread with a problem. I have the .22 Microgroove barrel, standard length, that you sent me and it's been sitting around. So I ordered a stock P17 from PA, thinking, hey, this will make a nice pair. My Stealth in 177 and the stock pistol in 22. So I got the pistol today, went to swap out the barrels, and noticed right off that the 22 barrel will not allow the pistol to fire, nor does the gun open up smoothly. It has to be nearly pried open. I put the 177 barrel back in, pistol functions as it should. I compared the two barrels and they look different. The muzzle end is longer from the shoulder that rests against the front of the gun to the crown. But it seems to fit the hole in the front and is flush against the front. I did notice the groove cut in the 22 barrel that the mounting plate rests in is a different length than the stock barrel's. I think the 22 barrel is a hair longer than the stock one, and it is pushed against the rear seal too much. This is probably why it cannot be opened for cocking and loading smoothly and is why the gun won't fire properly. I am thinking that maybe a little grinding and polishing with my Dremel tool might fix the issue. Worth a try I guess. 

My question is, will the rear seal fit the 22 barrel and provide the seal it needs, or does this need further modding?

Just saw this, was not notified of this post.

That barrel has a longer anchor point because it makes no difference to the mounting, and it's easier to set them up with the ergonomic loading by cutting it fully to the end.

It's clear the new pistol has tighter tolerances in that area, between the nose and the breech, and those few thousandths will cause a binding on the carefully cut breech clearance.

You are correct. Relieving that clearance, by a couple thousandths, will set the breech up to give you a more consistent seal. Go slow, but don't worry... if you go too far, you can shim that just like the factory does.

BTW... take the excess off the plastic block the front of the barrel fits into. Don't touch the barrel! Power tools won't be needed. a slight relief of the nose can be had with sandpaper.