GTA

All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Back Room => Topic started by: archellas on January 08, 2019, 06:14:27 PM

Title: Please list properly ....
Post by: archellas on January 08, 2019, 06:14:27 PM
This is a rant!  Dez, maybe this could become a sticky ....
If you are selling a rifle WITHOUT the scope or bipod or other acceries in the photo, PLEASE show it as such, TAKE a NEW picture of it !!!!! Don't ad: scope and bipod and LDC and case not included .... (whatever).
If you are accepting Paypal, please factor in the 3% they charge. If you are not family or someone I have traded with before, then I AM NOT PAYING F&F, and I shouldn't have to add the 3 or 4%.  Include it in your price (or factor it in)
Thank you
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: Bob H. on January 09, 2019, 04:57:03 AM
Sounds good to me!  Tacked on fees really dampen my interest in making a purchase.

BobH.
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: Sfttailrdr46 on January 09, 2019, 08:47:49 AM
This is a rant!  Dez, maybe this could become a sticky ....
If you are selling a rifle WITHOUT the scope or bipod or other acceries in the photo, PLEASE show it as such, TAKE a NEW picture of it !!!!! Don't ad: scope and bipod and LDC and case not included .... (whatever).
If you are accepting Paypal, please factor in the 3% they charge. If you are not family or someone I have traded with before, then I AM NOT PAYING F&F, and I shouldn't have to add the 3 or 4%.  Include it in your price (or factor it in)
Thank you
Duly noted but understand that even big time vendors and gun manufacturers will show their rifles with accessories . Then list disclaimers of what is not included with the rifle being offered.

I offer most of the rifles I have sold here are shown with scope and rings and the disclaimer will state that scope and rings are not included in the sale.  I will also list exactly what is included in the sale as well.

As long as there is communication via PM and telephone there is less room for misunderstanding
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: avator on January 09, 2019, 08:57:36 AM
If the "rules"  for the GTA Classifieds are followed as posted, there shouldn't be a problem. It states that a picture must be provided for ACTUAL items being sold.
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: bavaria55n on January 09, 2019, 09:41:56 AM
Great idea.

Even worse is the I have an ________ for sale. Will post pictures later.
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: ezman604 on January 09, 2019, 09:46:51 AM
Great idea.

Even worse is the I have an ________ for sale. Will post pictures later.

Not in  our classifieds...
:)
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: Sfttailrdr46 on January 09, 2019, 09:48:36 AM
Great idea.

Even worse is the I have an ________ for sale. Will post pictures later.

Not in  our classifieds...
:)
What DEZ said
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: ezman604 on January 09, 2019, 09:53:13 AM
The fee deal has always been a sore subject. Credit cards charge a retailer the same 3-3.5% for using their service. Charges the SELLER, not the buyer. So to me, the seller needs to either understand PayPal is charging THEM this fee for their service and adjust their price accordingly or just accept the 3.5% fee hit. The buyer should not be asked to absorb this fee.
Just my opinion.
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: ezman604 on January 09, 2019, 09:58:38 AM
As for selling what is pictured, advertisers ALWAYS use props to make a sale appear more appealing. As long as it is CLEARLY stated what is and is not included, there's nothing wrong with showing what an item COULD be outfitted with. I bought that shiny new car but was upset it didn't include that yacht that was in the background nor the gorgeous bikini clad model leaning on it.
LOL
The wife didn't mind those were not included though. Since both are money pits.
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: Sfttailrdr46 on January 09, 2019, 10:05:15 AM
When I sell and accept PayPal as payment I accept that the fee is on me as the seller. That being said if the Item being sold is below what I feel is the true value I will clearly state that the buyer is responsible to pay the shipping costs. If I get my asking price I will absorb  the shipping costs on the Item sold unless it is going to cost more to ship than the item is worth. If Paypal is not acceptable to the buyer then USPS money order and the Item will ship once the funds clear and money is in my checkbook
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: lizzie on January 09, 2019, 11:22:45 AM
When I sell a gun, and it has a scope on it, I don't remove the scope, because if said gun doesn't sell, I will likely still want to shoot it, just for the sake of practice and keeping the gun operating. My scopes are usually sighted in just the way I want them, and I see no reason to remove and re-apply just to photograph for a potential sale.
I will state that the scope is not included in the ad, and expect that is a fairly common practice.

When I BUY a gun, I don't expect a scope will normally be a part of the deal, because scopes are such a personalized touch, and  if I buy a gun that has one, I just view it as an unexpected bonus, and almost never actually use it.

As long as the ad states clearly what actually is included in the sale, I am good with it.
I can't imagine any gun purchase on my part being dependent-or even influenced by- the scope issue.
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: Sfttailrdr46 on January 09, 2019, 11:26:24 AM
 ;) :D I knew there was a good reason I liked you Lizzie
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: lizzie on January 09, 2019, 11:34:55 AM
Hahahaha :D
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: triggertreat on January 09, 2019, 11:42:53 AM
 ??? , Being a haggler by nature :-[ , I know everything is negotiable ;) .  I say go ahead and include those extras in the photo...I may want to haggle for them as well.  I prefer the "add 3-3.5%" for PayPal.  This gives me the option as to whether I want PayPal's protection or not.  FF has none :( , IIRC.
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: anti-squirrel on January 09, 2019, 11:48:07 AM
As long as the rules are followed and both buyer and seller communicate without mishap, I'm good.

However- I'm okay passing on F&F to those I've communicated with here.  It's a nice touch and brings use closer as a community.  However, I also like the idea of adding the other items if they are shown in the picture.  I don't mind haggling either :)  Hey, I ended up with some extra goodies that way

That's my 2
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: archellas on January 09, 2019, 01:13:39 PM
As for selling what is pictured, advertisers ALWAYS use props to make a sale appear more appealing. As long as it is CLEARLY stated what is and is not included, there's nothing wrong with showing what an item COULD be outfitted with. I bought that shiny new car but was upset it didn't include that yacht that was in the background nor the gorgeous bikini clad model leaning on it.
LOL
The wife didn't mind those were not included though. Since both are money pits.
Dave, you should be grateful that boat and chick did not come with ... LOL!
Absolutely! On NEW cars, every gimmick is used.
Bad analogy - in my case - I sell cars! NEW are always presented with ALL the bells and whistles, but NOT USED! Those show EXACTLY the item you are getting! There is NOTHING shown that is NOT included. (Consider this: nice used car with tinted windows and prettly alloy wheels, and then a statement saying - wheels not included and will have clear windows! Hmmmm - see what I mean?)
Since we are talking about pre-owned guns, I feel the same should apply.

BTW, I have traded with several fellow members here WITHOUT a hitch, and in fact very pleasantly.

But I did start off by saying this was a rant! Especially the F&F thing or add 3.5% - just include it and get it over with.

Cheers


Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: Sfttailrdr46 on January 09, 2019, 01:16:22 PM
 ;) If we had ignored your rant we would have missed out on an interesting conversation  8)
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: archellas on January 09, 2019, 01:16:54 PM
The fee deal has always been a sore subject. Credit cards charge a retailer the same 3-3.5% for using their service. Charges the SELLER, not the buyer. So to me, the seller needs to either understand PayPal is charging THEM this fee for their service and adjust their price accordingly or just accept the 3.5% fee hit. The buyer should not be asked to absorb this fee.
Just my opinion.

+1
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: archellas on January 09, 2019, 01:19:22 PM
;) If we had ignored your rant we would have missed out on an interesting conversation  8)
I have more friends here - that I never met - with whom I enjoy daily conversations. It's great.

And I'll never deny everything I learned here.
So if I missed it before. THANK YOU!
Cheers
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: avator on January 10, 2019, 08:27:14 AM
I have a "special" account set up with my bank. I'll move money into it for online purchases. My PayPal account is linked to it. When PayPal is linked to a bank account, there are no fees. Neither I nor the seller pays a fee and my main bank account can't be "raped".
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: ezman604 on January 10, 2019, 09:11:08 AM
Bill, you can't even have a PayPal account without it being tied to a bank account. That's how they 1) verify an account initially and 2) use it for funding if you make a PayPal purchase and have no funds in your PayPal account. And believe me, if you receive money via PayPal, they will charge you a fee.
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: Bicycleman on January 10, 2019, 10:06:40 AM
Bill, I really like that idea.  I will be heading to my bank soon to open an account for PayPal.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: triggertreat on January 10, 2019, 12:36:50 PM
I have a "special" account set up with my bank. I'll move money into it for online purchases. My PayPal account is linked to it. When PayPal is linked to a bank account, there are no fees. Neither I nor the seller pays a fee and my main bank account can't be "raped".



That's exactly how I have mine setup.  I only keep the minimum in there and move money over to it when needed.
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: archellas on January 10, 2019, 12:45:29 PM
I have a "special" account set up with my bank. I'll move money into it for online purchases. My PayPal account is linked to it. When PayPal is linked to a bank account, there are no fees. Neither I nor the seller pays a fee and my main bank account can't be "raped".
Good to know Bill! Thank you for that info.
Cheers
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: mobilemail on January 10, 2019, 01:45:57 PM
To me, the whole PayPal fees discussion is just semantics. Whether I state you pay an extra 3 percent, or I increase the item 's cost 3 percent to cover it (and let's face it, it's usually more to make round numbers), either way didn't you just pay the three percent???
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: avator on January 11, 2019, 08:52:10 AM
Bill, you can't even have a PayPal account without it being tied to a bank account. That's how they 1) verify an account initially and 2) use it for funding if you make a PayPal purchase and have no funds in your PayPal account. And believe me, if you receive money via PayPal, they will charge you a fee.
Two ways to do it Dave.... Directly through a bank account or with a debit/credit card. If you link directly through a bank account there are no fees... trust me, I have made several purchases and nobody has had to pay fees. My paypal account gives me the option just before I press "play" to use the card or the direct account link.
BTW.... I always use F&F.
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: ezman604 on January 11, 2019, 08:57:14 AM
I know, I've had PayPal from the beginning of PayPal. You can "buy" all day long with no fees. If you "receive" funds you are dinged a fee. Unless the buyer sends as Friends or Family. But then they lose protection in case a deal goes bad. No recourse to get their money back.
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: avator on January 11, 2019, 09:06:24 AM
That may be the case....
But I don't need paypal to back my transactions, I have my bank. They even blocked me from my account once because I traveled and used my debit card without telling them of my plans to travel. That was a fiasco... I was in a Harley dealership and they had just put a new front tire on the bike and I couldn't pay for it. Took hours to get it straightened out.
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: avator on January 11, 2019, 09:10:06 AM
I guess my point is, for example.... I have made all my GTA donations through Paypal..... The $10 donation has never cost me more than the $10.... have ya'll had to pay a fee on the $10?
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: ezman604 on January 11, 2019, 09:43:46 AM
Yessir, every donation "received" is dinged for a handling fee. $10 usually 50 cents.
Seller or receiver of funds is always dinged a fee.

I guess my point is, for example.... I have made all my GTA donations through Paypal..... The $10 donation has never cost me more than the $10.... have ya'll had to pay a fee on the $10?
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: avator on January 11, 2019, 10:17:17 AM
Yessir, every donation "received" is dinged for a handling fee. $10 usually 50 cents.
Seller or receiver of funds is always dinged a fee.

I guess my point is, for example.... I have made all my GTA donations through Paypal..... The $10 donation has never cost me more than the $10.... have ya'll had to pay a fee on the $10?
Well that's shocking news to me, I had no idea. I wonder why a seller has never brought it to my attention?
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: Sfttailrdr46 on January 11, 2019, 10:26:30 AM
 ;) ;D Probably because he factored the fee into his asking price. That's why unless I am being totally philanthropic on my bargain sales will state buyer pays shipping and just absorb the 3.5% paypal fees as part of selling and the warm fuzzy feeling that both parties are somewhat protected. That is also why I will ship UPS and insure for full replacement value of the rifle or whatever that I'm shipping.
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: cobalt327 on January 11, 2019, 10:58:45 AM
More than one first-time eBay seller has found themselves selling on an uber slim margin because they didn't account for eBay's 10% final value fee and insertion fee (along w/any other fees for optional listing upgrades) along with the 2.9% plus $0.30 PayPal fee in their asking price. Selling an item for $14.00 w/no listing upgrades ends up netting a seller $11.54, as an example I'm familiar with. That's almost an 18% hit.
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: archellas on January 11, 2019, 01:50:20 PM
BTW.... I always use F&F.
You are CORRECT.
When sending funds to my children I do F&F and it is linked to my bank account (one of them) and NEITHER of us pays fees.

Also when I have traded with someone before or if I know them, or if it is a low payment, I will do F&F. However, and like Dave stated, you are not protected on the transaction if something goes south. I currently have a case open on a break barrel I bought off American Airguns where the safety was hacked off and no mention was made of it, in the listing OR when I communicated with the seller! The seller offered to refund on return, but shipping is $25+ and I am claiming THAT money also, since the listing had NOT disclosed and IMPORTANT feature.
Any other time you trade Paypal charges fees to either seller OR buyer. Someone has to pay for the service.I also sell on eBay,and YES, they are expensive, but I factor all the fees I have to pay in there, and they do charge!

If I don't know someone, or have NOT traded with them before, I will NOT do Friends and Family!! I want protection on the transaction.

I should say again, I have not had any issues with anyone I have traded with on GTA - quite the contrary, it has always been pleasant!

Well this has turned into an interesting and somewhat informative post!
Cheers
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: Nvreloader on January 11, 2019, 05:00:37 PM
I just bought a stock from Dave and for the asking price of the stock and going thru PP,
the amount was minus $1.75 of the asking price, for this transaction thru F/F.

I don't know if I messed up, when I paid the bill as I only saw pay this price, which I did,
Looks like I owe Dave $1.75 more, which I'll get to him ASAP.

My PP account,which I have had for over 10-15 yrs, is linked to/thru my bank account.......
with limited funds available in case of hacking etc, so I don't know what to think now,
I was unaware of these hidden? charges thru PP.

Tia,
Don 
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: avator on January 11, 2019, 06:31:13 PM
I will definitely look closer at future transactions.
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: avator on January 12, 2019, 10:22:41 AM
Some of this is beginning to make sense to me.
I was reviewing some of my paypal transactions.
A recent donation for $10 was sent to GTA. It was categorized by paypal or the recipient as "Entertainment".
A recent purchase of a gun from another member on the classified was categorized as "Money Sent".
A recent transaction with PA was categorized as "Sporting Goods".
With the donation and the PA purchase I was not given the option to send F&F. The recipient obviously paid the fees.
With the F&F purchase from the GTA member nobody paid fees. He received exactly what I sent. I didn't pay fees because the money came directly from my bank and not my credit/debit card. As far as a dispute, my bank always has my back. They do review however, there are potential scammers on both sides of the "coin".
BTW.... I did not "categorize" these transactions, paypal or the recipient did.
I see the light.
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: Back_Roads on January 12, 2019, 11:40:09 AM
 Funny thing ,I just realized most of the transactions I have made through the classifieds were trades, yes barter must be my friend.
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: bavaria55n on January 12, 2019, 12:38:30 PM
I have a "special" account set up with my bank. I'll move money into it for online purchases. My PayPal account is linked to it. When PayPal is linked to a bank account, there are no fees. Neither I nor the seller pays a fee and my main bank account can't be "raped".

That is the way to do it, no cost to me or the buyer/seller.

Most problems would not even come up if people would read the description of the item for sale.
Just got a request for a return yesterday from a buyer on eBay who despite a detailed description and 12 pictures suddenly realized it 'wasn't what he thought it was'.
gary
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: archellas on January 12, 2019, 12:57:19 PM

Most problems would not even come up if people would read the description of the item for sale.

gary
Sometimes sellers don't list things as they are in hopes that the buyer will not object! The case I now have open with paypal is on a break barrel rifle that looked nice in the pictures, and the seller and I communicated, and I even asked for more photos (close up), I was told is was "a beauty".
When I got it, it was well packed, and did look good, but as I looked it over, I saw that the safety in front of the trigger was actually cut off with a grinding wheel! I contacted the seller, and she explained that "a lot of guns don't have a safety - that is not an issue!"Well, YES IT IS.It was NEVER mentioned. No I would NOT have bought it. (We are NOT going into the safety issue, different discussion). She said she would refund me, when I send it back, but shipping is $25+. She claims "If you don't like it". NO, it's NOT what I was supposed to get.

So yeah, Paypal offers some protection when items are paid for - as long as it's NOT F&F.

Cheers
Title: Re: Please list properly ....
Post by: cobalt327 on January 12, 2019, 04:11:10 PM
If an item is bought on eBay and it's misrepresented the option to open a Significantly Not As Described complaint is available. You pay no shipping if the case is found in your favor.