GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: thumbs on September 04, 2015, 09:17:45 PM
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I just got my carbon fiber tank and shooting the disco has become fun. Started testing this week to see what works. Funny comes down to two pellets. Probably the first choice will be the JSB Jumbo Diablo 15.8 second the JSB Jumbo Diablo Heavy 18.13. The question is how much real world difference is there in hunting power between the two? Basically I'll be hunting squirrel and groundhog. I know the heavies carry a little more energy but not sure how much difference with will really make? Of course accuracy trumps power anyday.
The 15.8's just nudge out the 18's by just a hairs breath. The real difference come in long range. I sighted in at 34yards. Just about holding 1/4 dot hold over at 50 yards and 3dots at 100. Yeah I was surprised also. There are a bunch of busted up clay pigeon's laying around and with the hold over I can smack them at 100yards with the 15.8 most of the time. If its a miss it isn't by much. Not much energy at that range but it is still pretty accurate. The 18's drop much more and further than the dots on the scope with allow.
Now should I order 15.8's or 18's? Who has hunted groundhog with the 15.8's and how do they work out? Is the energy difference between the 15.8 and 18.13 worth worrying about? They both are close in accuracy at 34 yards but the 15.8 are better at longer ranges.
Of course this was done with a front rest and rear bags. I can't shoot that well. LOL
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I just got my carbon fiber tank and shooting the disco has become fun. Started testing this week to see what works. Funny comes down to two pellets. Probably the first choice will be the JSB Jumbo Diablo 15.8 second the JSB Jumbo Diablo Heavy 18.13. The question is how much real world difference is there in hunting power between the two? Basically I'll be hunting squirrel and groundhog. I know the heavies carry a little more energy but not sure how much difference with will really make? Of course accuracy trumps power anyday.
The 15.8's just nudge out the 18's by just a hairs breath. The real difference come in long range. I sighted in at 34yards. Just about holding 1/4 dot hold over at 50 yards and 3dots at 100. Yeah I was surprised also. There are a bunch of busted up clay pigeon's laying around and with the hold over I can smack them at 100yards with the 15.8 most of the time. If its a miss it isn't by much. Not much energy at that range but it is still pretty accurate. The 18's drop much more and further than the dots on the scope with allow.
Now should I order 15.8's or 18's? Who has hunted groundhog with the 15.8's and how do they work out? Is the energy difference between the 15.8 and 18.13 worth worrying about? They both are close in accuracy at 34 yards but the 15.8 are better at longer ranges.
Of course this was done with a front rest and rear bags. I can't shoot that well. LOL
Hopefully this will answer your question with a 50 fps difference between the two... ;D
grains 15.8
speed 750
Bullet Diameter 0.22
KE 19.73026973
Momentum 0.052614053
momentum_1 0.526140526
Taylor 0.372428571
grains 18.13
speed 700
Bullet Diameter 0.22
KE 19.72183372
Momentum 0.056348096
momentum_1 0.563480963
Taylor 0.39886
Aloha... 8)
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I use the 18s on squirrels out to about 50 yards, which is about my max range where I shoot. They give that lovely balloon-popping sound. Most recently I got on at about 45 yards, a head shot, and he dropped like a field target, not even a twitch.
The 15s will have plenty of power, but I guess that main question is your functional range of taking your game. If you go out past 45-50 yards, I would say that 18s will prove more accurate. But only testing will confirm.
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Thanks guys. To make things a little more clear I didn't want to imply I would even consider shooting game at 100 yards. That being said I was going to limit my shots to 35yards. After yesterday I will go to 50 but that is it.
I have more testing to do including changing the power adjustments to see how it effects accuracy. I actually went in with the thoughts of using the 18's and very well may still. After the testing the 15.8's are looking pretty good also.
Just as a baseline at what velocity are you guys shooting your 18's and 15.8's? Just so I have a general starting point.
thanks
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I'm shooting 15.9s at 705-745fps, but haven't tested the 18.1s enough yet to give you any advice with them. A week from today, then I'll start testing and updating my thread again.
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Ok Here is a question for you guys. Just trying to get a little jump on the season.
I have had the disco for a while but just picked it up again so it's kinda new again. I just went to the shop to do some adjustments to the power spring. I was going to turn up the power a bit and see what happens. I am getting quite a few shots per fill and figure I could trade some shots for a bit more power. As it turn out I am screwed in all the way so the only way to adjust is out for lower power.
Now my numbers for the 18's are averaging of 760fps and the 15.8's run 790 average. Is this what your finding? Is this about where I should be Both are running about 22ftlbs. Should I leave this alone or are people adding spacers to the adjustment screw for more power or are there other springs? Just wondering if I should be good to go or if there are any possibilities. Actually I am fine with it but if I can be better. I'm not power hungry just want to tune is as best it can be done.
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Shots per charge is just as important to me as power per shot.
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Shots per charge is just as important to me as power per shot.
I actually place more importance on the former. The power you're getting now is the most I'd ever turn it up to.
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Shots per charge is just as important to me as power per shot.
I actually place more importance on the former. The power you're getting now is the most I'd ever turn it up to.
Thanks guys. Yeah I am getting about 30 shots for both pellets now. Actually the lighter pellets get more shots per fill. Go figure. Now that isn't all power shots I can go down to 700psi and still get accuracy but I'm sure the power is down. Funny my most accuracy is at low psi in the rifle.
Just looking over the previous posts and it seems I maybe a little hot on the velocity. I may dial it back just a little and see what happens. Accuracy it the important thing.
Any tricks here to cut down on flyer's? I know that is the age old question. I know checkin the weight and taken a look at the skirts but is there anything else like lubing?
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Thanks guys. Yeah I am getting about 30 shots for both pellets now.
I'm curious what spread you are accepting to get 30 shots per fill at that power. I got 34 shots per fill with it detuned to a little under 20 FPE. My 34 shots were all within 3% spread of max.
Biggest thing I've hear about flyers with the Disco is a bad crown on the barrel.
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Thanks guys. Yeah I am getting about 30 shots for both pellets now.
I'm curious what spread you are accepting to get 30 shots per fill at that power. I got 34 shots per fill with it detuned to a little under 20 FPE. My 34 shots were all within 3% spread of max.
Biggest thing I've hear about flyers with the Disco is a bad crown on the barrel.
Ok remember these shots are accurate but the res runs down pretty far. The number of shots are not in the 3% range with either pellets. I am just talking about numbers of shots till I can see the accuracy drop on target. Both 18's and 15's are over 30 shots. At least they were yesterday. Now that may take me down to 700psi in the res. Not hunting shots just plinking shots.
According to my numbers and Chairgun the sweet spot for the 18's are running 22 foot pound from 1900psi to 1100psi. I am getting 20shots in the 3% range with max velocity 771fps and the range starting at 749psi and ending at 749psi. Average velocity in the sweet spot 760fps.
Again according to my numbers and Chairgun the sweet spot the 15.89 are running 24 foot pound from 1700 to 1100 psi. I am getting 18 shots in the 3% range with a max velocity of 806fps and the range stating at 787 and ending at 787fps. Average velocity in the sweet spot 790fps.
Again the 30 plus shots are not all in the 3% range but they are accurate shots. As soon as the poi drops I stop shooting. For hunting I will stay in the sweet spot.
This is with the power all the way up or screwed in all the way. For me that is 13.5 turns.
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Thumbs when it comes to putting down groundhogs you need to penetrate that tough skull. I remember the first time I tried to take out a groundhog with my Talon SS 22. shooting Crosman Premiers 14.3 grains and they were flattening out on impact and not too successful in killing. I later went to the Beeman Kodiak 21.12 g going at about 750 fps and it was lights out to about 40 yards. That is a little more fpe than you Disco but I think for groundhogs you might get better penetration with the 18.13 g JSB.
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I personally think that even the 18 gr. pellet at under 800 fps is marginal on a Groundhog.... You would have to have a perfect brain shot, on an angle that isn't going to glance off, not just a "headshot".... Study the anatomy of the skull, and only take a shot that will penetrate to the fusebox....
Bob
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Funny I just ran some numbers and the 15.89 at 830fps actually deliver more energy to the target than the 18's. @ 760fps. Not 100% sure how that boils down but in my case i can't get the heavies to go fast enough to raise the energy to the target. Now it maybe that the 18's will hold their shape and even with less energy penetrate better idono. Anyway it really isn't that much difference to worry about. I think the better question is which one will be more accurate. They are both pretty good but I think the 15.89 is a little better accuracy wise in my rifle.
I don't get many flyers but I do get some.
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Thumbs said: ". . . better accuracy . . . . " <--- Magic words!
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Unless you can boost up the speed on those 18's I would use the 15.8's, flatter trajectory, more fpe , better accuracy.
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Note sure how I can get better velocity. I have it turned all the way up. Yep the 15.89's are a little easier to shoot at distance. Closer in maybe 25 yards or so I think the 18.13 will work fine. The 15.89 should be real squirrel getters. At least my scope has the dots that will work out to 100 yards. Not that I need it just interesting. With the 18's its out of the dot range in drop. With the 15's the drop from 34yards, where I am sighted in, to 50 yards is about a 1/4 dot holdover. Pretty flat shooting.
Ok now another question about accuracy. Have you guys found that the range in weights in a particular tin of pellets makes much difference in poi? If so how much allowance seems to be acceptable. In other words if I an shooting 15.89 will 15.5 to 16.4 make much difference? Not that the may be that far out but haven't measured them yet.
Just got done weighing the 18.13 and 15.89. I kept the ones plus or minus one tenth of a grain. I'll see how it does with the flyers. It actually is amazing how close the weights were to spec. Had a few bad skirts though.
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Thumbs I would use the 15's for your squirrels and the 18's for the groundhogs. Like Bob said your fpe for groundhogs is marginal. I would keep your groundhog shots to less than 25 to 30 yards max. And with a hold point between the eye and ear for a square on shot. From what you have said the accuracy with your 18's should hold up in that range. I have shot well over 200 groundhogs with my Talon with 24 fpe and Career at 34 fpe and you need the best penetration you can get through that skull.
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Have dropped squirrels with both, i use the 18gr ones only now. my guns loves them and they drop game well. Also use them in the 2240 carbine with good results on game.
Cant help on the ground hog as I never took one and probably wont try with the disco.
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I shot a groundhog with my 177 disco at 16fpe right through the noggin, went down like a stone, but don't think I would stretch it out to more than 30 yds.