GTA
Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 and springers ,rams => Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 => Topic started by: TheBullsEye on August 27, 2015, 07:56:41 PM
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Anybody bought one yet ? I was considering buying one but the hoses and guages seem a bit iffy $14 for them seems suspicious is this normal or not ?
http://www.topgun-airguns.com/SCBA-tank-with-adapter_p_94.html (http://www.topgun-airguns.com/SCBA-tank-with-adapter_p_94.html)
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$14 extra for just the quick disconnect hose according to their site.
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HPA hose for $14, for a NON microbore type, not out of line ( No pun ) cost wise
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Do You guys think this would be a good first scba tank for 3000psi guns?
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Do You guys think this would be a good first scba tank for 3000psi guns?
If you have a way to refill it ... smoken deal !!
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I have one. Works fine. They have a short window for for certification and can not be recertified after the 15 year lifespan.
I have,my own compressor so works great for me. As far as the the plumbing it is made to get you started. You probably will buy better valving later.
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after its unable to be recertified is it still safe too use?
will you be able to tell when the tank is failing before it goes boom ?
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after its unable to be recertified is it still safe too use?
will you be able to tell when the tank is failing before it goes boom ?
After it's 15yr life span is over, technically it's done. As for being able to tell when it's going to burst. No.
Unless it's beat to he!!, then it might be okay. But there is a life span date for a reason.
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okay hmmm decisions decisions it says in the description that they were hydro and will be good for another five years so it will be okay for five years. maybe I should call and talk to him directly...
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Deleted dupe.
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New Hydro does not mean good for 5 more years.
Example if made in 01-2001 and fresh Hydro test this month (08-2015) then it will still expire age wise in 01-2016. In addation to the every 5 years Hydro there is a required annual visual inspection which can also deem a tank unsuitable for use.
Tank born 01-2001 then dead 01-2016 no matter when last Hyro done.
Tank born 01-2009 and Hydro on 08-2015 means next Hydro due 08-2020 but next annual required 08-2016 and tank could fail annual even though 15 years is not up until 01-2024. Most talk about having current Hydro and how necessary it is to insure safety but data shows more fail annual inspections than fail Hydro.
These are based on Data from 1990 and not even carbon fiber wrapped tanks. IMO it is the same as many other government rules that are based on very outdated data or no data at all.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=86450.msg892439#msg892439 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=86450.msg892439#msg892439)
Video liink here
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=34730.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=34730.0)
showing filling using such a setup.
I have new $400 17 cf 4500 tank setup with special slo-flo valve,micro bore hose and while nice fact is my approx. $250 87cf 15 year old SCBA tank with manifold similiar to one at your link works just fine also.
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okay hmmm decisions decisions it says in the description that they were hydro and will be good for another five years so it will be okay for five years. maybe I should call and talk to him directly...
His ad used to say "1 to 2 years left", if you call I think he will tell you that the DOM is either 2000 or 2001. Which means they "expire" (according to DOT regulations) in 2015 or 2016, no matter what the Hydro is.
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Take into consideration that the scuba tanks and scba tanks are used for purposes of life and death if failure accures. A leak while under water is much more serious than you get to the range and realize your air tank leaked.
Those dates are way conservative. My friend just got rid of a scuba tank he had since the late 70's and did not throw away but gave to another airgunner.
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15 year life was determined in 1990 based on non carbon fiber tanks and 10,000 cycle life which is 40% of cycle life at which point 2% wouuld fail during Hydro testing which is 5/3 of rated max. working pressure.
The metal becomes fatigued and work hardened due to expansion and contraction. When Hydro test is done they check for the amount the tank expands and if it does not expand enough then it fails.
Most air gunners tanks do not get discharged to near zero like fire fighters and other who use them for a breathable air source. Most of our tanks do not get filled an average of 5 times a week which is where the 15 years came from with a rather large safety margin.
(CFRP) SCBA cylinder maintenance requirements were established in the early 1990s based on cylinder manufacturer input. At that
time, there was extensive experience with aluminum-alloy tanks but very little knowledge of the long-term durability and strength characteristics of fiberglass or carbon fiber. A lower limit on the service life of composite-wrapped cylinders was established at 15 years based on limited studies on the durability of fiberglass observed in testing for NASA aerospace applications. The 15-year cylinder life is also linked to cylinder cycle testing (fill-and-empty cycles) at the time of manufacture, when two percent (2%) of all cylinders manufactured are cycled 10,000 times (corresponding to about one cycle per working day for 40 years), then subjected to a number of strength tests. Cylinder manufacturers submitted that this testing established a threshold level of acceptable safety that can be reasonably expected over a 15-year service life (regardless of the working gas).
2% failure after 10,000 cycles which is 260 per year for 40 years.
260 per year (five per week) for 15 years is 3,900 fills or right at 40% of full 0 to max. pressure cycles for 2% failure rate to be reached.
Edit corrected one per week to five per week
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15 year life was determined in 1990 based on non carbon fiber tanks and 10,000 cycle life at which point 222% wouuld fail during Hydro testing which is 5/3 of rated max. working pressure.
The metal becomes fatigued and work hardened due to expansion and contraction. When Hydro test is done they check for the amount the tank expands and if it does not expand enough then it fails.
Most air gunners tanks do not get discharged to near zero like fire fighters and other who use them for a breathable air source. Most of our tanks do not get filled an average of 5 times a week which is where the 15 years came from with a rather large safety margin.
(CFRP) SCBA cylinder maintenance requirements were established in the early 1990s based on cylinder manufacturer input. At that
time, there was extensive experience with aluminum-alloy tanks but very little knowledge of the long-term durability and strength characteristics of fiberglass or carbon fiber. A lower limit on the service life of composite-wrapped cylinders was established at 15 years based on limited studies on the durability of fiberglass observed in testing for NASA aerospace applications. The 15-year cylinder life is also linked to cylinder cycle testing (fill-and-empty cycles) at the time of manufacture, when two percent (2%) of all cylinders manufactured are cycled 10,000 times (corresponding to about one cycle per working day for 40 years), then subjected to a number of strength tests. Cylinder manufacturers submitted that this testing established a threshold level of acceptable safety that can be reasonably expected over a 15-year service life (regardless of the working gas).
2% failure after 10,000 cycles which is 260 per year for 40 years.
260 per year (one per week) for 15 years is 3,900 fills or right at 40% of full 0 to max. pressure cycles for 2% failure rate to be reached.
Good info.
This sticker on my tank from the last hydro test says they tested it at 7,500 PSI as well. I personally do not believe the threat is they explode, but will leak. For breathable air this is an obvious issue. For filling my PCP gun it can be an annoyance if it leaks. But if it makes you nervous the new ones are expensive initially but divided by 15 years they are not too bad.
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His ad used to say "1 to 2 years left", if you call I think he will tell you that the DOM is either 2000 or 2001. Which means they "expire" (according to DOT regulations) in 2015 or 2016, no matter what the Hydro is.
I know it's always "caveat emptor" as a buyer, but personally, I do not like the fact that the tanks are sold without noting the manufacture date.
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They are all different, they are using whatever used tanks they can get. The dates are clearly marked but just like a battery at your auto parts store, the age of manufacture is all over the place.
Give them a call before you/when you place your order.
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Snip from vedor's website , link provided in OP
These are 4500 psi 45 min. SCBA carbon fiber tanks. They hold 66 cubic feet. The valves have been gone through and resealed and the tanks are under a new hydro test in Jan/2015, or 4/2015.
These tanks are intended to get new-comers, on a budget, into the sport.
Several or more vendors get around $150 for only such a fill station with no tank at all.
I recently paid $140 for a 87 cf (60 min.) Scott SCBA delivered and it was 15 years old with no Hydro ( but was in like new condition) , $140 for a matching fill station and $15 for a hose / whip so $195 plus $15 for a whip seems reasonable as long as shipping is not to bad.
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So now do i buy one of these tanks or look for a bigger tank? I can get it filled but its an hour drive and its gotta be filled via compressor so could take a bit. I plan on shooting at least a tin a week which is probably on the high side soo 500 shots say 3000 to 2000 will a 45 min tank suffice ?
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I shoot my .177 Disco approx. 300 rounds per week and only discharge my 18 cf guppy tank down from 4,500 to 3,000PSI.
Perhaps spend some time with a calculator and figure out your air useage.
http://www.calc.sikes.us/2/index.php (http://www.calc.sikes.us/2/index.php)
I use 135cc as Disco tank size and it works out fairly close. The size ( regular or micro bore ) and length of fill line will effect how much air is wasred (bleed) each fill.
From what I have read tank fills run from around $5 to $30 and evven if a 4500 PSI fill is requested and paid for you may end up with more like 4,000 after air / tank cools. I have also read that some paint ball operations do not maintain their compressor/ bulk fill station very well and may end up putting a large large amount of moisture in your tank which is very damaging. If I were having a tank filled it would be ata certified Dive Shop or Fire Station where clean / dry air is demanded to protect lives. I fill my own as many other here do.
Per calc at link I provided
45 min / 66 cf filled to 4500 . 110 fills for a Disco based on filling from 1,000 to 2,000 each time.
With my .177 Disco that would be approx. 2750 pellets down range.
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Well i live about an hour from trenier oudoors and he has an omega compressor and hes tood me i could come film up there im not sure how long it takes to refill a 4500 tank bit i imagine a few hours .
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According to AOA video Omega fills at 22cf per hr. so 66 cf should take 3 hrs. 0 to 4.5K. They topped of a 75 cf from 3.0K to 4.5K in 46 min..
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well shipping is gonna be about 60$ on it would I be better off getting a tank from ebay for about $200 shipping $17 and then also buying the correct gear for filling or would I end up spending about the same I'm not sure as to what I need to buy for filling here is a link to the one on ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Drager-4500psi-SCBA-tank-45-min-carbon-wrapped-2009-Draeger-/261822572465?hash=item3cf5d767b1 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Drager-4500psi-SCBA-tank-45-min-carbon-wrapped-2009-Draeger-/261822572465?hash=item3cf5d767b1)
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Fill station for SCBA with 3' Micro bore hose $140 ( $150 for armored version . prevent kinking ) extra $25 for Quick disconnect plus shipping.
http://www.airhog.com/A9_Charging_Kits.html (http://www.airhog.com/A9_Charging_Kits.html)
SCBA HOSE ASSEMBLY
HIGHEST QUALITY STAINLESS STEEL (so the threads don't wear) Hand-tight (no wrench needed) fitting, with our Highest Quality STAINLESS STEEL Bleeder, STAINLESS STEEL Glycerin Filled Gauge that reads BAR & PSI, 3 Foot x 0.070 inch ID micro-bore hose, strain relief at each end and STAINLESS STEEL "Foster" type quick fill on the end, = $149 + $14.50 shipped priority mail and insured.
http://www.airtanksforsale.com/ (http://www.airtanksforsale.com/)
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Well, last weekend I filled a Tiger Shark (71 cu ft according to Joe) from 0 to 4500 psi with my Omega compressor. Total compressor run time was about 3 hours and 15 minutes over the course pf the evening and the next day. I did not fill it all at once. I bled the line of water about every 15 minutes. After every hour, I let everything cool for 30 min - 1 hour. Once I got to 4500 psi, I let the tank sit overnight. After it cooled down, it was about 4200 psi. I topped it off.
Now for the tank in your link. It was manufactured in 2009 and taken out of service in 2014. Ad says:
"All bottles have been tested for functionality and passed."
I doubt this was a hydro - if it was I think it would be stated as such. That said, I'd figure the price of a visual inspection and a hydro before anyone will fill it.
$217 shipped for 9 more years (assuming it passes inspection and hydro) seems like a good deal. I would suggest that you get the slo flow valve and microbore fill line from Joe. If you add the second gauge to the valve (to see the tank pressure at any time) the valve will be about $320 shipped. Now you are close to $540. And still need a professional inspection and Hydro so someone will fill it. I've seen prices for this service from about $35 to $60.
Might as well get a Tiger Shark from Joe.
Prices are approx from a quote I received.
$589 Tiger Shark
$39.00 2nd Gauge
$39.00 Option 2A FQD x FQD & MQD x DIN300
$29.00 Ship Tiger Shark
$696 Total and a brand new 15 year tank
Or post a WTB ad here and other forums for a Tiger Shark. Got mine fully armored for a great price. It was 2 years old.