GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Hatsan Airguns => Topic started by: Martis 1 on August 23, 2015, 08:17:49 PM
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Had a conversation with a friend last week. He's got a real problem with raccoons destroying his back yard. He lives in a city where it's illegal to discharge a firearm, and oddly, also illegal to trap and relocate animals. He's been chasing them out of the yard with an airsoft gun, but they've gotten so bold they don't seem to care any longer. He's to the point where he wants to start dispatching them. It's legal in his city to use an air rifle for pest control, and he was asking me about my PCP. I told him it would work, but then I told him what it would cost and he quickly lost interest.
This got me to thinking... I briefely had a Hatsan 95 in .22 caliber. Got it for Christmas last year and it was breaking in nicely, but after three days, the seal broke. (I believe this is what happened as it suddenly started shooting very roughly and spraying pellets) Anyway, I sent it back and ended up with the PCP.
Liked the 95 a lot till it died though.
In researching the 95's I was cautioned that the .25 cal would be very difficult to shoot accurately. I was thinking that my buddy is only taking shots at the coons of 25 feet or less.
So after this long winded story, my questions are, would a refurbished 95 with open sights be accurate enough for a good head shot on a coon at out to 25 feet? Would it have enough power for a quick kill at that range?
Thanks!
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would a refurbished 95 with open sights be accurate enough for a good head shot on a coon at out to 25 feet? Would it have enough power for a quick kill at that range?
The true question is will your friend work on being able to hit a 1.5 inch target at 25 yards 100% of the time? the 95 will definitely have enough power to kill a raccoon at that distance (i have seen raccoon been taken at about 15 yards with a crosman 2100...). The gun can do it if he puts the effort into it. the .25 been difficult to shoot?, i dont think so. it is difficult at medium to long range, but at 25 feet the loopy trajectory of the .25 should not come into play. I believe that any gun pushing 600 fps in .22 would do the job. now the open sights... yes, they can be set up to easily group as needed at 25 feet. but for what he is intending to do, i would recommend a red dot zeroed at about 10 yards. it will be easier to shoot in the dark, which is most likely when this animals are active. So yep, it will do. There are other options to his problem too... an NP rifle will do very well too... or a Mike Mellick B25...
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Sounds like your friend lives in California where I am or where the laws are similar. I own a trapping business and we use pcp guns to dispatch raccoon, skunks, etc.
We trap them and then dispatch them in the cage. This gives you a controlled situation to shoot the animal. We have never had a problem shooting a caged pest even in Los Angeles county.
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He does indeed live in CA. When he first started having problems, he called his local animal control. They said they'd loan him a cage trap and he went that route. The first night he caught a huge coon. Called them the next morning to come and get it. The officer came out and said Jim needed to dispatch the animal before he would take it. Jim asked how he suggested doing that, and the officer suggested dropping the trap and animal into Jim's very well cared for pool! When Jim refused, the officer refused to take the trapped animal and left. Made it very clear that Jim could neither use a firearm to dispatch the animal, nor re-locate it. (Said it spread disease from one area to another) Jim waited till late the next night, put the trap in his truck, and released the coon in a nearby park. He was risking prosecution for relocating the critter though.
Since then, he's had to return the trap and can't get it back. He said there was a policy change or something.
As to having to hit a 1.5" target consistently at 25 yards in order to dispatch something at 1/3 that distance, I'm not sure I understand that. From what he said, when he goes out and confronts these things, they just stand there and stare him down. I have to admit that I've never shot a raccoon, so I honestly don't know how difficult it is to make a kill shot.
I know Jim has a low powered break barrel .177. I think he said it was a Ruger, but not sure. Said he and his son are very competent with it. However, I can't shoot 1.5" groups at 25 yards freehand or even seated with any break barrel I've ever shot or owned. (That's why I shoot a PCP ;)) Not sure how hard it would be to shoot a .25 Hatsan that well...
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The first time he shoots them it will be at 5 feet. The next time will be at 20 feet, soon they will stay 100 feet away.
Tell him to get a Hatsan 95 Vortex in .22 and practice, practice, practice....
-Y
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As to having to hit a 1.5" target consistently at 25 yards in order to dispatch something at 1/3 that distance, I'm not sure I understand that.
I am a nuisance wildlife control operator with licenses in both NY and GA. trapping is an option but you do have the obligation to dispatch the animal in your property, as they are considered rabies vectors in 99% of the country, so releasing them is not an option unless you can contact a licensed animal rehabilitator or wildlife preserve. the 1.5 inch standard is what you need to hit such animals in the fuse box. even with the .177 breakbarrel, a shot in the brain will take care of that. the animal will probably thrash around for several seconds. but its not going anywhere. And if you can bait him to a safe area, with a safe back,at a predetermined distance, then it is easier to deal with it.
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Shooting in a neighborhood with a gun capable of killing a human being is absolutely insane. I can't believe people are advising such irresponsible actions.
Capture the animal in a cage and put the cage over dirt or grass and shoot it. The pellets often pass through so don't shoot on cement.
Shooting a raccoon in a tree or a top a fence when a home or people are on the other side is crazy talk. If you are going to discharge a weapon it needs to be done in a responsible matter.
The reason none of the trappers that work for me don't ever get in any trouble shooting their weapons in city neighborhoods is they are taught simple gun safety.
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Sounds like buying his own trap would probably be a step in the right direction. I didn't ask him where he plans to dispose of these critters once their dead though.
When I was a kid growing up in the country, we had problems with skunks getting after the chickens and ducks. I had a cage trap. I'd trap the skunks, dispatch them with my .22, and call the dog catcher. They'd pick up the skunks, but said not to shoot them in the head, as they wanted the brain in tact to test for rabies.
That was in Sacramento and it was over 40 years ago. Not sure what options are available now a days.
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Nick, I'm wondering. Is it legal to discharge a firearm in the area in which you are trapping? I know cities differ in their specific regulations.
Ron.
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Best place to shoot is between the shoulder blades into the spine. It us harder than you think to shoot a caged animal because the bars are so close together.
My son puts his rifle up to the cage and the skunks often will go and sniff to investigate and then he shoots them. What ever works.
Cages are cheap, Lowes like $50. Bait with almost anything. Marshmellows, egg, jelly, peanut butter, etc. We use a few baits at same time. Place near activity or where they enter yard, etc.
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Nick, I'm wondering. Is it legal to discharge a firearm in the area in which you are trapping? I know cities differ in their specific regulations.
Ron.
No. Firearms are not allowed. We service Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside and San Bernardino counties all of which do not allow firearms discharged in city limits. But airguns are not Firearms.
We have asked many law in for cement officers, many our customers, who have said we should have no issues because we are using air rifles and in a safe controlled way being caged. They said if we used any type of powder burner that we would have a problem 100% of the time.
One funny thing that happened last year with LA County Sherrif. My son had just shot 2 skunks at a medical building and put the cages back into his truck and bagged the skunks getting ready to leave.
10 Sherrif cars roll up onto him shotguns drawn and order him out of his truck. My son, never in any trouble, is handcuffed and put into the back of a squad car.
Turns out, someone saw his dragon claw he shot the shunks with and called 9-1-1. They reported someone was about to rob the Chase bank next door.
In the end the Sherrif let him go, gave him is gun back and had no issue with him killing the skunks. He called me afterwards looking for some sympathy which I was unable to do because I was laughing too hard.
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Nick, I'm wondering. Is it legal to discharge a firearm in the area in which you are trapping? I know cities differ in their specific regulations.
Ron.
No. Firearms are not allowed. We service Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside and San Bernardino counties all of which do not allow firearms discharged in city limits. But airguns are not Firearms.
We have asked many law in for cement officers, many our customers, who have said we should have no issues because we are using air rifles and in a safe controlled way being caged. They said if we used any type of powder burner that we would have a problem 100% of the time.
One funny thing that happened last year with LA County Sherrif. My son had just shot 2 skunks at a medical building and put the cages back into his truck and bagged the skunks getting ready to leave.
10 Sherrif cars roll up onto him shotguns drawn and order him out of his truck. My son, never in any trouble, is handcuffed and put into the back of a squad car.
Turns out, someone saw his dragon claw he shot the shunks with and called 9-1-1. They reported someone was about to rob the Chase bank next door.
In the end the Sherrif let him go, gave him is gun back and had no issue with him killing the skunks. He called me afterwards looking for some sympathy which I was unable to do because I was laughing too hard.
Sure glad that turned out well, and I'm betting the reason it did was because your son used good judgment and kept a level head. Kudos to you as his father and to him as well!
Thinking about it, I should just loan Jim my coon trap, as I haven't needed it in years. He could probably also just use my Benji 392 for dispatching in the trap. It's not at all accurate, but pumped up 8 times and with the right pellet, should be effective enough for dispatching a coon in a trap. Kinda loud pop to it fully pumped though.
Hmm, maybe under those circumstances the local animal control folks would be willing to come and take the carcass. This might work out well!
Thanks for all the help! :D
Ron.
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One of the magnum handguns, maybe a Hatsan 25, Crossman/Benji Trail NP,or Browning800? All are powerful enough to humanly dispose of pests at close range. Accurate enough that it would be hard to miss at a foot! :-[
-Y
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snare/8# hammer?
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snare/8# hammer?
Did I mention he also has skunks around? ;D
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snare/8# hammer?
+1 to a snare. I did a lot of snarring in another life.
If he has a fence like most people that live in an urban area with neighbors do and the animals are coming through in a specific spot it would be very easy to snare them.
Snares are great because 90% of the time (if the snare is set corectly) the animal is dead within a few minutes and there is no fuss.
Can't beat the $8 they cost either. I make my own but would not recomend making them for someone who has never trapped.
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snare/8# hammer?
+1 to a snare. I did a lot of snarring in another life.
If he has a fence like most people that live in an urban area with neighbors do and the animals are coming through in a specific spot it would be very easy to snare them.
Snares are great because 90% of the time (if the snare is set corectly) the animal is dead within a few minutes and there is no fuss.
Can't beat the $8 they cost either. I make my own but would not recomend making them for someone who has never trapped.
I've never used them, but I just don't think a snare would be the right tool for this job. Two main reasons are neighborhood cats, and skunks. I'm sure he wouldn't want to catch either in a snare. That's why I think a cage trap and some type of AG for dispatching would be the way to go.
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Well, I don't think you ever said if your friend solved his problem, but I've been having my nose rubbed in a situation myself and maybe the solution I'm contemplating is also the one for your friend?
You are perhaps right about not wanting to snare a skunk, at least from the standpoint of walking up on one still alive ... but doesn't that also go for walking up on them anyway? Still --- if walking up on them is what is going on (you said he ended up staring down on a racoon?), a springer in .25 cal is going to be pricy when you consider learning how to hold it, finding the right rounds, and getting accurate enough with it.
When I was a kid I was pretty good with a sling shot. Something light for ammo, don't pull all the way back and it is rather easy to discourage a small-game sized animal without harming it, and a decent heft rock or ball bearing with a lot more intent behind it will dispatch pretty much anything at close range...
Just a thought, if the situation is still on-going. Legal, quiet, and very lethal without a ton of practice!
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I just today happened to get a warranty scope for my Hatsan 95 Vortex, 25 caliber. The original one crapped out after about 300 pellets, and after a little haggling, they finally agreed to send out a new one. I dialed in the scope tonight at 12 yards in my basement range, and here are the groups with two different pellets. All shots off the bench rest. It's obvious the 95 like both pellets, but it LOVES the heavy Baracuda pellets at 31.02 gr.
In sort, the Hatsan 95 Vortex 25 cal. is more than capable of dispatching a racoon, and I see no problem with doing so with the .22 cal. model as well.
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I'm a springer kind of guy. But considering the learning curve needed to shoot springers, would maybe a QB78 using 12 gram co2 cartridges be better for a new guy who just needs pest control?
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I'm a springer kind of guy. But considering the learning curve needed to shoot springers, would maybe a QB78 using 12 gram co2 cartridges be better for a new guy who just needs pest control?
I beg to differ. With the ubiquitous YouTube videos available online and help from people on forums such as this one, the learning curve is small for shooting a springer, and there is no need for additional "consumables" to be buying and properly storing. If he wants to go beyond pest control and maybe use it for hunting, all he has to do is carry the gun and pellets. Sorry, but I'm not a fan of co2. I'm sure they have their place, but why add another component is it's not needed when the springer will more than do the job? JMHO
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Joe,
Those are some great groups!
Tim,
The CO2 gun isn't a bad idea at all. I haven't shot them, but it seems to me it would be as easy to shoot as my PCP, just with a bit less power, lower cost, and simpler to charge up.
I spoke with my buddy the other day. He said the coons were really active the first half of the summer, but haven't been back in awhile. He doesn't know why, but gone is gone. He added that he'd check with his local authorities and if they'll collect the carcass, he'll borrow my cage trap and then decide on a dispatching method. In addition to his Benji 397, he already has a .177 cal springer. I don't recall what make, but he said it's fairly low power and easy to shoot accurately. I told him about the Hatsan 95 in .25 cal and we agreed that just for dispatching something confined in a trap it would be a good option.
If all this ends up happening, I told him he's got to get pictures/video for me. I'll post it up in the hunting section at that time.
Thanks for all the great suggestions guys!
Ron.
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One other thing. I only had a few coons around here but a bunch of possums and stray and/or neighbors cats. I insisted, well asked and explained patiently, to my wife and step daughter to stop feeding their cats outside and only inside and the other critters would stop coming around. It worked.
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One other thing. I only had a few coons around here but a bunch of possums and stray and/or neighbors cats. I insisted, well asked and explained patiently, to my wife and step daughter to stop feeding their cats outside and only inside and the other critters would stop coming around. It worked.
That's a good point and indeed the cause of a lot of folks' problems. In my friend's case however, they don't have cats. One spoiled rotten little lap dog ;D, and it's pretty much always indoors. Even when we camp together, the dog is fed inside their trailer. Wouldn't want any dust getting into it's food...