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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Big Bore AirGun Gate => Topic started by: Bwalton on August 18, 2015, 04:14:53 PM
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LW sells two types of barrels for the .30cal, one is used if you are going to shoot pellets, and the other one is used if you are going to use slugs, or cast pellets or what ever you want to call them. I ordered one of the slug barrels, what a nice option that gives me with the .30cal. What I have also found is that the 44.95gr JSB shoots better then the 50gr, I am leaning towards the shape of the two that differs....The 44gr has more of a pronounced wasp shape while the 50gr does not.
The 50gr might be a better fit for the other barrel... Boy am I having fun with this ;D I would also like to find a .30cal slug or cast pellet that is around 48-50gr for that slug barrel. Lot of testing to do to find out the best one two punch for this rifle, the accuracy as she sits now is superb! I am looking for inside an inch @ 150yards...And this has nothing to do with target shooting, this is just for me to know if I can take head shots at that distance with consistency. I know that 100yards is not a problem...Think I am going to run out of summer time, Hey what am I thinking :o I live in Southern Cali I always have summer ;D
So the rifle shoots the 44.95gr JSB best @ 930fps while keeping the best accuracy. Thats why I went to another barrel that may be able to let me raise the bar to over a 100ftlbs while maintaining that same accuracy.
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Baxter where did you get the barrel for slugs?
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Baxter where did you get the barrel for slugs?
Lothar Walther
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I meant a link to where I could get one. I was being lazy, but I found their site. I see they are in my back yard LOL
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Very nice choice you've made there Baxter. The unchoked .30 cal LW barrel would be the ideal ticket for shooting cast bullets. Choked barrels & cast slugs generally dont play well together.
Did you consider the option of the .30 cal polygonal barrel?
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Very nice choice you've made there Baxter. The unchoked .30 cal LW barrel would be the ideal ticket for shooting cast bullets. Choked barrels & cast slugs generally dont play well together.
Did you consider the option of the .30 cal polygonal barrel?
Well I did not consider it, I just call and talk to LW about barrels seeing that the barrel that is on the Hatsan right now is great for pellets, But not able to keep to go beyond a certain fps and remain as stable as I want. So the slug barrel will allow me to change for more power and hope to retain the same accuracy. Now I just need to find the right cast bullet fit.
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Interesting, LW only mention one .30 cal airgun barrel on their website, and it is 0.306" groove, which is neither the pellet size (0.300"), nor the common 0.308" PB size for cast bullets.... They don't list a Polygonal barrel in .30 cal, only in .177, 22, and .25 cal.... I have an older LW airgun barrel, and it measures 0.308" groove and shoots cast bullets perfectly....
Bob
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Interesting, LW only mention one .30 cal airgun barrel on their website, and it is 0.306" groove, which is neither the pellet size (0.300"), nor the common 0.308" PB size for cast bullets.... They don't list a Polygonal barrel in .30 cal, only in .177, 22, and .25 cal.... I have an older LW airgun barrel, and it measures 0.308" groove and shoots cast bullets perfectly....
Bob
Here is the reply Bob...
Baxter.
There are two versions on this barrel. One shoots a solid 30 cal projectile. The other shoots the 30 cal JSB projectile.
What type of projectile do you intend to use?
Woody Woodall
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It would be nice if they brought their website into line with that information....
Bob
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It would be nice if they brought their website into line with that information....
Bob
lol Bob thats way I always poke around and see what info I get thats not listed ;D
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I guess this is LW's response to Tim @ Mac1 who tested their .30 cal barrel prior to the last EBR Match and couldn't get it to shoot JSBs worth squat.... That's why he went with the TJ's barrel with the 26" twist, that Sean Pero and I designed, to get his win.... Still, it's hard for airgunners to know if they don't change their website.... *LOL*....
Bob
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Baxter, have you tested the new barrel @ 950 fps with the 50 gr. JSBs? I hate for Norm not to be able to use the 14 shots at 100 FPE with them! I am having to down tune the darn thing!
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Baxter, have you tested the new barrel @ 950 fps with the 50 gr. JSBs? I hate for Norm not to be able to use the 14 shots at 100 FPE with them! I am having to down tune the darn thing!
I have not gotten the barrel as of yet, but like me and Bob have said the Diabolo pellet shape has its restrictions.. Sure we can get 100ftlb out of them but there is not a pellet to do it @ 930fps which is the top of the tolerance for that type of pellet.
So @ 950 it is spiraling.... LOL Yes I too had to tune down. the only way to get a 100ftlb plus with extreme accuracy is the same shape as the 44.75gr pellet, but! with the weight of 55gr. That way you can launch it @ 933fps and get the 100ftlb and extreme accuracy together. That pellet mold that Bob is talking about would be the key. So I have ordered a slug barrel to try the 50gr on and slugs also, That might open up doors. So for now I will regulate the .30cal @ 931fps for a 86ftlb rifle but with very nice long range accuracy. Then when the barrel gets here we will see what that brings.
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Baxter, is that a blank or drop in barrel? Is it the twist that is making it a slug barrel or the size, ie is it a .308 or the same as the other barrel with a different twist? I thought the problem with the JSB 50gr was a smaller skirt size and surface contact in grooves was minimal, so if either same size or larger would think the 50gr would not shoot any better. I may have remebered that wrong or backwards, been a long week ;D
Chris
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I'm lost here. Why do people still try to re-invent the wheel, when there are wheel's a plenty?
You want to shoot bullets, use a pb. barrel. Why keep messing with ag barrels? Many, MANY-of are getting outstanding accuracy from PB barrels already. They are MUCH more readily avaliable, with known dimensions. the Walther's are a c--p shoot at best. Heck, for the longest time, other than the propitiatory barrels they were making for Daystate, the barrels they were producing even for pellets in the .30 were dismal at best. ???
Tim of Mac1 has proven beyond doubt what is already known, that even the barrel liners that TG makes out shoots any Walther slug barrel! They are hammer forged, with less tall lands that are slightly rounded. (Think sorta like BSA barrels if old). All of which make for less friction, and longer sessions between cleaning when using bullets.
To add fuel to this fire, Walther makes PB barrels. Rather than ordering an AG barrel for slugs, which they know very little about, if you insist on L/W, source one of their PB barrels with the twist you need for the bullets you intend to shoot in it.
Our Bullet shooters are NOT pellet guns. Seems there needs to be a change in mind set here. Some of us that have been at this for a while now have been beating our heads against the wall trying to get folks to understand this. I don't know if it is that we are talking in a vacuum or what. Seems simple enough to me.
Knife
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Rather than ordering an AG barrel for slugs, which they know very little about, if you insist on L/W, source one of their PB barrels with the twist you need for the bullets you intend to shoot in it.
Our Bullet shooters are NOT pellet guns. Seems there needs to be a change in mind set here. Some of us that have been at this for a while now have been beating our heads against the wall trying to get folks to understand this. I don't know if it is that we are talking in a vacuum or what. Seems simple enough to me.
Knife
Thats what Im getting at with my inquiry. What if it is one of their .308 PB fitted for a specific rifle, eg Carnivore? It did not seem clear, nor did it seem clear to others on the website.
Yes, I think its the vacuum effect, in addition to the comings and goings of people, especially the entrance of newbies and growth of the sports and hobby with much of the progression controlled by manufacturers :-\
Chris
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WhatT%$$$7 I am getting another barrel for my intended purpose to shoot cast slugs that others have made. Thats it thats all. I do not know what you guys are doing with you PB barrels....For me to shoot over 100ftlbs with this rifle and keep the great accuracy I need a cast pellet with better BC. This Barrel will not do. Sure I have inquired about other barrels that I could have ordered like Bartlein Barrels or Krieger Barrels.....No need LW will do just fine.
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Im still new to the airgun world, by most standards but Ive tried to research as much as possible. Admitting ignorance again, and maybe reading the wrong sources, I was under the impression LW made good barrels. Seems Ive read more about positives over negatives and wonder if maybe getting the bad barrel is more luck of the draw then a good one, eg most are good? Is LW NOT a good barrel?
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Well LW has match grade barrel blanks at least..
http://www.lothar-walther.de/254.php (http://www.lothar-walther.de/254.php)
But those cost is pretty high..Here in Finland is about 495€ IRC..
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I think all Knife meant was that there are lots of PB calibers to choose from, and the standard size in .30 cal is 0.308" groove diameter, with lots of molds available for cast bullets in that size.... Therefore, why try looking for something non-standard which will leave you hunting around for a custom mold for bullets.... He has a point, but when you get into the realm of under 100 gr. bullets in .30 cal there aren't a lot of choices for molds anyway, so it may not make much difference if you go 0.308" or some other size, such as the 0.300" used for airguns, or something in between (the LW is shown on their website at 0.306", I have no idea why)....
When the .30 cal first came out, Sean Pero and I designed a barrel for the .30 cal JSB pellets, at 0.300" groove and 0.243" land, with a 26" twist, had a mandrel made and had it hammer forged by Mike at TJ's, and it turned out to be an extremely accurate combination as shown by Tim @ Mac1 by winning the EBR.... Shortly after that, in the early days of my Bob's Boattails, I designed a .300 cal bullet that weighs just 70 gr., to work in that barrel, which is does well.... So, if you want something a bit heavier than the JSB pellets, with a better BC, you don't need to replace the barrel, a bullet from that mold, properly sized for your airgun barrel, should work just fine.... It's simply another choice, and there really are no wrong directions, each one has to be customized for your task anyway....
Bob
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I understand, but what I do is use one barrel for one projectile, In this Hatsan .30cal I will not use anything other then the JSB 44.75gr pellets ever. So I will buy another barrel to get to play around with cast pellets. Just me, I do not like using a vast amount of various pellets and stuff inside a barrel that I hunt with that is consistent. Also I do not have the accurate details of the LW .30cal slug barrel as it is not listed on the site. Could very well be a .308 do not know until he gets back to me.
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Since I began casting the barrel sizes are what worries me. I'm still a complete noob at casting. There's the .300 size barrel for most pellets, .308 for US firearms and .303 for UK. Having tried several bullets in my .357 cal I know sometimes what seems like a great bullet on paper do not always work well in a particular barrel. One reason I'm leaning towards just getting a heavy pellet mold for the 30 cal for better ballistics.
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".303 cal" is actually 0.311" groove diameter, and the pellets that Daystate use are the same 0.300" head diameter as those used by FX, and both are made by JSB.... I have no idea what the actual groove diameter of a Daystate barrel is, but I have heard that using the ".303" designation was only to take advantage of the popularity of the name in England....
Bob
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".303 cal" is actually 0.311" groove diameter, and the pellets that Daystate use are the same 0.300" head diameter as those used by FX, and both are made by JSB.... I have no idea what the actual groove diameter of a Daystate barrel is, but I have heard that using the ".303" designation was only to take advantage of the popularity of the name in England....
Bob
I meant the UK powder burners barrel.
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Yup, .303 cal measures 0.311-0.312" groove diameter.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.303_British
Bob
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All the more reason to stick with heavy pellets, the 30 cal designation is just so confusing when it comes to choosing a size for a mold.
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The problem with heavy pellets is that JSB changes their shape...
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What makes the LW .30 a slug barrel, twist or diameter to that of .308 PB barrels or both? A good reason I cam think of for a manufacturer to create/replicate something is to increase/improve its offerings to its customers or possibly expand upon them. Especially if they will do the work, however no one has mentioned if this is a drop in barrel. If not, and I need machining, I can certainly see why one may choose a more proven product with equal required work for completion. Seems her would ne more options with the .308 PB barrel size. Still havent read much about BBT, but also have not seen a .30 airgun that has enough power to do it justice other than Hyabusa :-)
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What makes the LW .30 a slug barrel, twist or diameter to that of .308 PB barrels or both? A good reason I cam think of for a manufacturer to create/replicate something is to increase/improve its offerings to its customers or possibly expand upon them. Especially if they will do the work, however no one has mentioned if this is a drop in barrel. If not, and I need machining, I can certainly see why one may choose a more proven product with equal required work for completion. Seems her would ne more options with the .308 PB barrel size. Still havent read much about BBT, but also have not seen a .30 airgun that has enough power to do it justice other than Hyabusa :-)
Not a drop in barrel, Woody at LW could answer those questions about specs
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"Not a drop in barrel,.."
Thanks, thats what I needed!
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Baxter, is that a blank or drop in barrel? Is it the twist that is making it a slug barrel or the size, ie is it a .308 or the same as the other barrel with a different twist?
Chris
Well besides the difference in bore size starters an AG barrel for shooting pellets will almost always be choked, & a slug barrel will not be choked. For shooting diabolo pellets that choke helps to improve accuracy. But for shooting solid slugs that same choke will hinder accuracy.
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Well besides the difference in bore size starters an AG barrel for shooting pellets will almost always be choked, & a slug barrel will not be choked. For shooting diabolo pellets that choke helps to improve accuracy. But for shooting solid slugs that same choke will hinder accuracy.
That too, thanks Ricky!
And to Knife's point, for a person like me, using a .308 would provide more opportunity in ammo selection because I would need to buy off the shelf initially (maybe for ever if I rather spend time shooting vs casting, if limited).