GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Martis 1 on August 15, 2015, 01:32:40 PM
-
I'm currently shooting a Disco, which I love, but I keep looking at a .25 M-rod down the road. I figured I'd go that route because dealing with Crosman is so darn easy. Parts are cheap and easy to get.
My plan was to eventually grab a refurbished M-rod because of price, but they're hard to come by.
I just looked at a website, (Airgun Pro Shop I think.), that has a ton of refurbed Hatsan PCP's at good prices.
I know there are a lot of folks here shooting Hatsans. Are they as easy to obtain parts for, maintain, etc., as the M-Rods, or is there a reason there are so many refurbished Hatsans compared to M-rods?
-
I'm currently shooting a Disco, which I love, but I keep looking at a .25 M-rod down the road. I figured I'd go that route because dealing with Crosman is so darn easy. Parts are cheap and easy to get.
My plan was to eventually grab a refurbished M-rod because of price, but they're hard to come by.
I just looked at a website, (Airgun Pro Shop I think.), that has a ton of refurbed Hatsan PCP's at good prices.
I know there are a lot of folks here shooting Hatsans. Are they as easy to obtain parts for, maintain, etc., as the M-Rods, or is there a reason there are so many refurbished Hatsans compared to M-rods?
I started with a disco and upgraded to a bnm kit. Bought an at44 short in a .22 and quickly sold the disco. They are awesome guns and deadly accurate. I shot .700" at 60 yards, that was a 20 shot group WITHOUT a reg. I shot .367" at 60 yds in a 5 shot group. Pumping is not bad and a reg cost $79 if you want one. I just shot 40 shots at 819 fps to 841fps. I am sure I can get more shots. I have both .25 and .22 and I have not needed any parts yet.
My .22 is a side lever and the .25 is the pump action similar to what is on airgunproshop. The pump is considerably heavier gun. Its close in weight to a mrod though. I prefer the side lever and always suggest it.
If you are wanting cheap, deadly accurate, fun to own gun that is easy to fill and plenty of shots; buy the at44.
Without a reg I can shoot low 1000fps with CPHP which it likes out to 50 yds. Past that a heavier pellet does fly better.
-
this topic has been talked about extensively. you might want to do a search. You are going to find that there are too bands and both think once is better than the other.
If you like to tinker and work on your guns, get an mrod hands down. Lots of mods and possibilities and you will get a great trigger that can be adjusted to 4-5 ounce ( this is huge for me). I think of the hatsan as more of a hunting gun more so than a bench gun. That does not mean that there are many out there that are very accurate. You get more power from the hatsan stock but, in my opinion, that is not the best thing. All my guns are set to 880fps with the best shooting pellet. Anything over 920fps to it is a waste of air and loss of efficiency.
If you don't want to tinker, Skip both guns and save for something better. It will be well worth it.
As I said before, Search and read up. Some of the debates are quiet amusing.
Daniel
-
this topic has been talked about extensively. you might want to do a search. You are going to find that there are too bands and both think once is better than the other.
If you like to tinker and work on your guns, get an mrod hands down. Lots of mods and possibilities and you will get a great trigger that can be adjusted to 4-5 ounce ( this is huge for me). I think of the hatsan as more of a hunting gun more so than a bench gun. That does not mean that there are many out there that are very accurate. You get more power from the hatsan stock but, in my opinion, that is not the best thing. All my guns are set to 880fps with the best shooting pellet. Anything over 920fps to it is a waste of air and loss of efficiency.
If you don't want to tinker, Skip both guns and save for something better. It will be well worth it.
As I said before, Search and read up. Some of the debates are quiet amusing.
Daniel
There is also a lot of things you can do too an at44 but there is more after market parts for the mrod. The trigger on the at44 is very nice and we are agreeing to disagree on which is better.
Here is good comparison between the 2. You will find that about everyone has gotten far better accuracy out of their at44 then they did. I would bet they cleaned the barrel which caused me issues with mine the first time I cleaned it. Hatsan told me to not clean it unless the accuracy is suffering. I went from sub .250" at 100ft with 4 different pellets straight out of the box to not being able too shot sub .325" til I shot about 200 pellets back through it.
http://www.airgundepot.com/head-to-head-benjamin-marauder-vs-hatsan-at44s-10-qe-article.html?trk_msg=H5S1OPR389G4P8PP94M8MNIAA8&trk_contact=56BFEERAQGHFJ3RNOU7912Q4FC&utm_source=Listrak&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=Head+to+Head+Results&utm_campaign=Hatsan+AT44S+QE&utm_content=Victory+Sale (http://www.airgundepot.com/head-to-head-benjamin-marauder-vs-hatsan-at44s-10-qe-article.html?trk_msg=H5S1OPR389G4P8PP94M8MNIAA8&trk_contact=56BFEERAQGHFJ3RNOU7912Q4FC&utm_source=Listrak&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=Head+to+Head+Results&utm_campaign=Hatsan+AT44S+QE&utm_content=Victory+Sale)
Rdsail is right, there is quite a few heated discussions about this topic. I doubt you will go wrong with either but if you want the best bang for the $ the hatsan will deliver.
-
I would go with the .25 Marauder without a doubt.
-
The accuracy test in that comparison was not exactly fair either. One thing they shot those pellets out of their sweet spot. Rdsail mentioned this himself and dialing the power back on the at44 is fairly easy.
The other thing is they shot the mrod with 4-16 and the at44 with a 3-9....
I think the comparison shows how close they really are though.
-
If want a comparison. Take my disco .22. It will out shoot both Guns. .127 to .25 groups at 40 yards. Ans can shoot over 40 fpe. At 31 fpe I get 65 plus shots. But is highligh modified. :)
I'm not going to get into comparing the hAtsan and the mrod. Is just not worth my energy. But I will say that my mrod 25 will should 110fpe. Try that with a hAtsan.
-
If want a comparison. Take my disco .22. It will out shoot both Guns. .127 to .25 groups at 40 yards. Ans can shoot over 40 fpe. At 31 fpe I get 65 plus shots. But is highligh modified. :)
I'm not going to get into comparing the hAtsan and the mrod. Is just not worth my energy. But I will say that my mrod 25 will should 110fpe. Try that with a hAtsan.
I shot .367" @ 60yds with my at44. When I did that I had less then $400 in the gun and the scope. I know how much you have in your disco which I am guessing you have a different barrel? The hatsan at44 is a lot of gun for the money. In my opinion they are close in comparison which if you looked at the comparison you would see it could have easily went either way. Very very close.
If you want something you can mod and is accurate then the Mrod is your better option. If you want something you can tune cheap, accurate, and gives you the best bang for the buck; then you want the hatsan at44.
I am sure you can produce just as much fpe with a hatsan at44, especially the long version. I am not the type gets all wound up over fpe though. If I need more fpe I will get .223 or .22 long rifle out. I really do not see what you can do with 110fpe that you can not do with 30fpe. The at44 does not accept longer projectiles which I have 2 unopened tins of H&N spitkugel over this very fact. If I was trying to launch larger projectiles and was all about fpe then neither of these would be my gun of choice. AT44 does have a better out of box shot count though.
Also this was not a comparison thread. He was asking about parts availability and maintaining a hatsan at44. Not if a at44 was better then a mrod. There is no way that question could ever get answered 100% one way or the other as each gun fits different peoples preference and I honestly do not think there is wrong pick between the 2.... I would just pick the at44 ;)
-
Just look at videos there are a lot out there, lip service is good, but video tells the real picture..a lot talk about what their rifle can do, but has yet to been seen, you want a gun that has a balance of accuracy and power, ftlb is wasted when you miss.....I have shot a lot of rifles, and have had them in my hand for as long as I wanted.. Choose base on what you see. Make sure that it is all backed up with groups..search the web for mrod 100y, and 50y groups
Do not be mislead....it's the skill behind the rifle also. There is no magic rifle out there that adjust automatically for wind, temp, and humidity.
I hunt so I do not get into a which rifle is more accurate, I post my groups and video of what MY rifle does and leave it at that.
-
All I have to say it is personal preference and how the gun fills to the person. I can say this is better than another just because that my opinion. I personally find Hassans heavy and lack quality. Not saying that mrod are better in those two areas. I pick a Morod because I can modify it how I want to. I love making adjustments to get the most out it.
As I said before. The person does not like to work on guns they should skip both and get a higher end gun. Like an air arms.
At the end the best thing is to try them and see what fits best. This will also improve accuracy significantly.
If you give a choice between modding a disco, mrod or hatsan. I pick the disco. Some might say I'm crazy but discos have huge potential.
-
All I have to say it is personal preference and how the gun fills to the person. I can say this is better than another just because that my opinion. I personally find Hassans heavy and lack quality. Not saying that mrod are better in those two areas. I pick a Morod because I can modify it how I want to. I love making adjustments to get the most out it.
As I said before. The person does not like to work on guns they should skip both and get a higher end gun. Like an air arms.
At the end the best thing is to try them and see what fits best. This will also improve accuracy significantly.
If you give a choice between modding a disco, mrod or hatsan. I pick the disco. Some might say I'm crazy but discos have huge potential.
I love, love, love, the air arms t200 hunter. Really a simple yet effective design that seems to be well polished out of the box. The only thing I did not like about it is thats a bit slow on fps and I don't think its suited for longer shots.
-
......... or is there a reason there are so many refurbished Hatsans compared to M-rods?
What do you think ?
-
I'm currently shooting a Disco, which I love, but I keep looking at a .25 M-rod down the road. I figured I'd go that route because dealing with Crosman is so darn easy. Parts are cheap and easy to get.
My plan was to eventually grab a refurbished M-rod because of price, but they're hard to come by.
I just looked at a website, (Airgun Pro Shop I think.), that has a ton of refurbed Hatsan PCP's at good prices.
I know there are a lot of folks here shooting Hatsans. Are they as easy to obtain parts for, maintain, etc., as the M-Rods, or is there a reason there are so many refurbished Hatsans compared to M-rods?
depends on where you look refurbs for Mrod are most like sold by one retailer, if you take P.A for example you would look and say why so many refurb Evanix? you will not find a Hatsan ever in this section. Because they go some where else... Maybe someone buys the refurb Mrods and resell them...I don't know nor have looked into it. here is the example.
https://www.pyramydair.com/used-air-guns (https://www.pyramydair.com/used-air-guns)
-
New at44-10 is about $400 new on amazon from feild & supply
Got a short for $364 shipped.
I can't bragg enough about the at44
-
Wow! Thanks for all the responses guys!
I should be a bit more clear. From what I've read online, both are great guns, and pretty much come down to personal preference in terms of features, feel, etc.
What I'm really looking to learn is how tough it would be to repair or find parts for the Hatsan compared to the Benji.
Honestly, I hadn't even considered a Hatsan until I saw how many regurb's are out there.
In terms of my needs, right now the Disco is about perfect. Accurate, easy to work on, plenty powerful, etc.
I'm looking down the line when the lead ban is in full effect in CA and I can't use my rimfire any longer. A powerful, accurate, airgun will do nicely. At that time, I'd like to step up to a .25 cal gun. I'll put the nice scope I have on the Disco on it. Then I'll drop a lighter spring in the Disco, go back to the original fiber optic sights, and make the Disco strictly my back yard gun, and use the hotter gun for hunting.
I'd say the M-Rod vs. Hatsan thing is like Ford vs. Chevy, but since the M-Rod is American and the Hatsan is, what, Turkish?, I'd say it's more like Ford vs. Toyota. Both are great guns, and just a matter of personal preference.
I just don't know how Hatsan is to deal with. Figured I'd ask.
-
Wow! Thanks for all the responses guys!
I should be a bit more clear. From what I've read online, both are great guns, and pretty much come down to personal preference in terms of features, feel, etc.
What I'm really looking to learn is how tough it would be to repair or find parts for the Hatsan compared to the Benji.
Honestly, I hadn't even considered a Hatsan until I saw how many regurb's are out there.
In terms of my needs, right now the Disco is about perfect. Accurate, easy to work on, plenty powerful, etc.
I'm looking down the line when the lead ban is in full effect in CA and I can't use my rimfire any longer. A powerful, accurate, airgun will do nicely. At that time, I'd like to step up to a .25 cal gun. I'll put the nice scope I have on the Disco on it. Then I'll drop a lighter spring in the Disco, go back to the original fiber optic sights, and make the Disco strictly my back yard gun, and use the hotter gun for hunting.
I'd say the M-Rod vs. Hatsan thing is like Ford vs. Chevy, but since the M-Rod is American and the Hatsan is, what, Turkish?, I'd say it's more like Ford vs. Toyota. Both are great guns, and just a matter of personal preference.
I just don't know how Hatsan is to deal with. Figured I'd ask.
I did answer you on the fact I have not had anything I need to replace on mine. The gun is very easy to work on. There is 4 screws and you can separate the trigger group from the breech. These guns function off a very basic operation, you have higher psi in a cylinder, you have hammer which strikes the valve on the cylinder thus burping a bit of its pressure off which sends the pellet down the barrel. Not being a smart 2$$ just saying its a very simple process and no real reason to expect issues.
As far as how many hatsan refurbs there is there really is not that many pcp refurbs. If you notice on airgunproshop it shows available stock and a lot of times certain models may be available and quickly become unavailable. As far as I know airgunproshop is the only company that carries hatsan refurbs and there stock numbers are always low. I thought another company also carried.them but I found out that company sources them directly from hatsan which airgunproshop does as well.
The only real issue I had with mine was that I was pumping mine and the one valve on the cylinder ended up getting dirty and would not seal properly. I simply took it apart and cleaned it. Also hatsan sends a bunch of extra o rings and even a cylinder valve seal.
-
I've had 2 hatsan at44's one in .22 & one in .177. I still have the .22, the .177 I took the wood stock off of it & threw the rest of it in the river! My at44 in .22 is a good gun but it taken a lot of work to get it where it's at & it's pretty good. I know it's not a .25 you mention but ease of use, to me marauder all the way. I've had 2 syn rods, .177 & .22. Excellent guns, easy to tune & not very pellet picking. My hatsan will only shoot 21gr Kodiak. Now I do have 3 .25 cals, a talon ss with a 18" barrel, a condor ss with a 24" heavy barrel & a r&l shroud & the mini-rod a.k.a the crusher. Again the ease of tuning, the mini-rod, you can tune it with 2 allen wrenches, for all out power the air force guns. I've had the 24" barrel up to 119fpe. Again it's all what you want. I would say that accuracy goes to my syn-rod .177 running 25fpe & the mini-rod running 37fpe. Sorry for such a long post but all my guns have distinct purpose. The syn-rod .177; feathered friends out to 75yrds, at44 .22; anything up to a rabbit out to 125yrds, talon ss with the 18" barrel it's my pig gun out to 50yrds, my mini-rod; it's my go to gun, condor ss with the 24" heavy barrel is gonna be my long range gun, I'm still getting it dailed in. Again sorry for the long post.
-
Like Zandrew said, I wasn't asking if the Hatsan was better or worse than the Marauder. Mainly just checking into parts/service availability. Sorry if I was unclear.
I wouldn't be foolish enough to ask which is the better gun. That issue will never be resolved to everyone's satisfaction.
If parts are readily available for the Hatsan, and if the company is as easy to deal with as Crosman, then down the road, when I'm ready for another gun, I'll do a lot of research on both. If possible, I'll try and handle and shoot both, then make my decision.
Thanks again for all of the input!
Ron.
-
I have owned both. My Mrod .25 was a much better shooter than any of the 3 Hatsan AT44 I owned straight from the box. I had two At44 shorts one in .177 and one in .22. I had an AT44 long in .25. After I put work into the 3 Hatsan I owned they shot as good as my Mrod did but again not out of the box. Just to save any one from asking yes I tried a ton of pellets and power ranges my Hatsans were also bought new last year so they were not old models. If I still owned the Hatsan's I would post a pic of how poor of a job they did machining the barrel lead and crown. Those were the two biggest factors in the accuracy. The mags needed polished up also but I think they addressed that problem with a mag change. After fixing the poor job on the lead, barrel port and crown they shot very good. For the money spent on the Hatsan I felt it was a good deal because I am able to fix the short comings. If I had to pay someone to do it then I would not feel the same
I think the Mrod will be the winner hands down for getting parts quick and easy for a good price. All you have to do is call crosman and you have any part. Who has all the parts of a Hatsan in stock ready to ship?
-
I have owned both. My Mrod .25 was a much better shooter than any of the 3 Hatsan AT44 I owned straight from the box. I had two At44 shorts one in .177 and one in .22. I had an AT44 long in .25. After I put work into the 3 Hatsan I owned they shot as good as my Mrod did but again not out of the box. Just to save any one from asking yes I tried a ton of pellets and power ranges my Hatsans were also bought new last year so they were not old models. If I still owned the Hatsan's I would post a pic of how poor of a job they did machining the barrel lead and crown. Those were the two biggest factors in the accuracy. The mags needed polished up also but I think they addressed that problem with a mag change. After fixing the poor job on the lead, barrel port and crown they shot very good. For the money spent on the Hatsan I felt it was a good deal because I am able to fix the short comings. If I had to pay someone to do it then I would not feel the same
I think the Mrod will be the winner hands down for getting parts quick and easy for a good price. All you have to do is call crosman and you have any part. Who has all the parts of a Hatsan in stock ready to ship?
I know I'm replying to an "off topic reply" (the OP wanted to know if Hatsan's parts are available, but hasn't gotten any answer), but.......
are you going to NEED the Hatsan parts?
I notice you owned an Mrod and 3 Hatsans........your signature says you STILL own 3 Hatsans.........what happened to the MRod?
Seems some of the other posters who (off topic) recommend the MRod, no longer have one either.....
I did also own an MRod and sold it, I'm following this topic as I'm interested in the AT44
-
Rob my reply is on topic not off topic. Right at the bottom I say you can call crosman and get every part for the mrod. I have never ordered parts for either rifle but I have read posts about how hard parts are to get for Hatsans.
Just because you have not needed to replace a part doesnt mean someone else wont need good parts service.
My sig isnt up to date. All 3 Hatsans went down the road ;) So I dont recommend the Mrod after selling it and keeping the Hatsans. If you read my post I am not recommending either but gave the OP what they could expect from both choices based on my experience with both.
I answered the op and if you dont like that I give them an honest break down of what To expect from a Hatsan then move on. You say my post is off topic when I did touch on parts being available but your post isnt even directed to the OP.
So again who sells all the parts for a Hatsan and has them ready to ship like crosman for the Mrod?
-
Rob my reply is on topic not off topic. Right at the bottom I say you can call crosman and get every part for the mrod. I have never ordered parts for either rifle but I have read posts about how hard parts are to get for Hatsans.
Just because you have not needed to replace a part doesnt mean someone else wont need good parts service.
My sig isnt up to date. All 3 Hatsans went down the road ;) So I dont recommend the Mrod after selling it and keeping the Hatsans. If you read my post I am not recommending either but gave the OP what they could expect from both choices based on my experience with both.
I answered the op and if you dont like that I give them an honest break down of what To expect from a Hatsan then move on. You say my post is off topic when I did touch on parts being available but your post isnt even directed to the OP.
So again who sells all the parts for a Hatsan and has them ready to ship like crosman for the Mrod?
I didn't intend to single you out, but the bolded part in the bottom of your reply is what he is asking, NO ONE has answered it.......he says that he KNOWS the MRod parts are easily obtained. I keep coming back to this post to see if there is an answer, but each time I am finding someone giving an opinion.
Are they as easy to obtain parts for, maintain, etc., as the M-Rods, or is there a reason there are so many refurbished Hatsans compared to M-rods?
I don't own a Hatsan, but was interested in a "reply" to his question as I have been contemplating an AT44
-
Ok Rob I can see the point you were trying to make. I am also trying to make a point about the parts. Mrod you call crosman and tell them what you need they take your money and ship parts. For Hatsan you go to Hatsan USA and they have a maintenance kit containing o-rings. I found one place in the UK that had more parts but the springs for the hammer and the valve components were all the UK version for the sub 12 fpe setup. Half of the parts they listed were also out of stock and some were UK sales only.
It was pretty clear from my research that I did before buying my Hatsans that parts were not going to be readily available unless you needed an o-ring. Again the Mrod is going to be the winner when comparing readily available parts and customer service.
-
Ok Rob I can see the point you were trying to make. I am also trying to make a point about the parts. Mrod you call crosman and tell them what you need they take your money and ship parts. For Hatsan you go to Hatsan USA and they have a maintenance kit containing o-rings. I found one place in the UK that had more parts but the springs for the hammer and the valve components were all the UK version for the sub 12 fpe setup. Half of the parts they listed were also out of stock and some were UK sales only.
It was pretty clear from my research that I did before buying my Hatsans that parts were not going to be readily available unless you needed an o-ring. Again the Mrod is going to be the winner when comparing readily available parts and customer service.
Thank you! That helps me a lot. ;)
Ron.
-
You are welcome Ron. Rob sry if I came off as a jerk in my first reply. I missed your point as well as you did mine but I think we cleared that up and no harm no foul as far as I am concerned.
-
Ok Rob I can see the point you were trying to make. I am also trying to make a point about the parts. Mrod you call crosman and tell them what you need they take your money and ship parts. For Hatsan you go to Hatsan USA and they have a maintenance kit containing o-rings. I found one place in the UK that had more parts but the springs for the hammer and the valve components were all the UK version for the sub 12 fpe setup. Half of the parts they listed were also out of stock and some were UK sales only.
It was pretty clear from my research that I did before buying my Hatsans that parts were not going to be readily available unless you needed an o-ring. Again the Mrod is going to be the winner when comparing readily available parts and customer service.
Leland - like to OP said - this is exactly what is needed, thanks
and you didn't sound like a jerk, it just seems like on threads like this you have to wade thru a bunch of the "ford/chevy" opinions to try and find the answer. Many do it, some more then others (those Brand Haters). I'm sure I've even gotten carried away and done it in a post or two.
-
The OP asked about parts availability for the Hatsan vs the Marauder because they were looking to purchase a .25 something down the road. I believe that Crosman is easier to order parts from since they are a USA company so no import fiascoes to contend with. Beyond that they are both PCP rifles capable of shooting better than the average shooter.
-
Hatsan USA carries parts, and they get to you fast!, No out of country stuff they are local. Thats if you need parts, I have only replaced o-rings and a screw at one point and that is it, and I shoot hard every week, hunt every week. go to the range 2-3 times a week.
-
Baxter, do you have a phone number for Hatsan USA? I can't seem to locate one anywhere.
-
Baxter, do you have a phone number for Hatsan USA? I can't seem to locate one anywhere.
Here's one from the site.
Warrant Claims and Repair – For U.S. retail customers only. Call HatsanUSA, Inc at (877) 278-4448 x201
-
Baxter, do you have a phone number for Hatsan USA? I can't seem to locate one anywhere.
I email, the respond very fast depending on time of day or the very next day. Parts get to me within 2-3days where I order an extra valve air tube stock they are on it. use this email for parts
service@hatsanusa.com
-
Thanks again for all the responses guys!
Baxter, I took a look at the youtube videos you posted of the accuracy you're achieving with your Hatsans. I gotta say, it's very impressive!
Ron.
-
Thanks Ron, I try to show the true ability of the rifle with a little work, and if you ever get one I would be more then happy to guide you along the path.
-
I'm currently shooting a Disco, which I love, but I keep looking at a .25 M-rod down the road. I figured I'd go that route because dealing with Crosman is so darn easy. Parts are cheap and easy to get.
My plan was to eventually grab a refurbished M-rod because of price, but they're hard to come by.
Glad I checked in. If anyone is looking for a good deal on a Hatson AT44, Airgun Depot is currently having a great promotion on the AT44 QE short and long for $110 off, or $389.99. Use promo code "champ". Good, I think, to Aug 23.
Jere
-
The good thing about the Hatsan's PCP platforms is they are really easy to maintain, Baxter said it, he hunts a lot and shot a lot and his at44 is still shooting excellent and the only part that he needed to replace was a screw (which I also needed to and the price was 12$ from the UK).
Also if you have some mechanical experience, or even if you don't it is really easy to tune these rifles. For example I don't have a lot of mechanical experience and I tuned my at44 short and now I get 30 shots inside 4% at 30 ft/lbs (860fps JSB heavies) with an efficiency of 1.2 fpe/ci.
-
My first and only experience with Hatsan USA was very good. Needed an extra magazine and they delivered
as good as anyone else in the industry.
-
I took it one step further- WHERE does the gun come from? Do I want to help 'that' country's GDP or would I rather support the GDP of another Nation- I have good relations with a couple Co.s in Turkey and like the folks I have dealt with there-
CAN NOT say the same when dealing with China- much of the goods we get from them are straight up junk-
If Daisy made a PCP then we could keep our Dollars here at home BUT they don't.
If Crosman MADE air GUNS here in the US, then I would look at them again BUT they don't. I don;t mean 'built' here I mean MADE 100% here in the US. with US steel, in a US factory with folks stamping and machining, using Barrel From Green Mt or Lothar for all their air guns and keep folks employed Here.
also I like German steel ( Hatsans) But I also drive German Cars now ( with my FORD Falcons under cover waiting for a restore) , sure the Jetta was made in Mexico but my 73-2002 is German and I sure would not buy a car made in China- would you? Any one??
Unless I have NO choice I won;t get stuff from that one place with the Red Flag and stars- where free speech gets you jailed or worse.
So maybe I took it a bit too far?? But then again maybe not.. yes I am a nationalist sorry if any one was offended with these comments just my take on the world and the goods we import- we have choices - choose wisely comrade ....
-
I would go with the .25 Marauder without a doubt.
I went with a .25 Marauder last January and got a dud. After 7 months of frustration, I finally gave up and sent it back to Crosman who promptly sent a new rifle. I'm just beginning the testing and tuning, but it already appears that this one is a keeper. I guess we will see, but one thing is for sure - I'm not messing around with this one for 7 months. I will know for sure within 2 or 3 weeks exactly what I have or don't have.
Jere
-
I went with a .25 Marauder last January and got a dud. After 7 months of frustration, I finally gave up and sent it back to Crosman who promptly sent a new rifle. I'm just beginning the testing and tuning, but it already appears that this one is a keeper. I guess we will see, but one thing is for sure - I'm not messing around with this one for 7 months. I will know for sure within 2 or 3 weeks exactly what I have or don't have.
Jere
[/quote]
Good luck and I'd sure be interested to see how this new rifle turns out for you. I'm sure other prospective Marauder owners would too.
Ron.
-
Thing is a lot of folks tend to lose sight of the fact that Hatsan, Benjamin, Eunjin & many other guns on the market today were made to be and marketed as budget pcps. As a direct result of this there will be those who hat like some brands more than others, and QC issues that may vary from one brand to the next. Allowing personal preference to bias ones opinion for or against one make or another is an individuals privilege. But just keep in mind these guns are what they are and as such will all have shortfalls in one dept or another.
That being said, I love my Hatsans for 3 simple reasons regardless of their downsides.
1-Generally they provide lots of power and accuracy otb
2-They are easily modifiable to whatever needs a shooter may hàve
3-They are based on a ridiculously simple platform. So simple to the point that even if certain parts are not as readily available from the dealer or manufacturer, they can be made by hand I one were to choose to do so. Quite recently I completely remade all the moving parts in the BT 65 trigger group with nothing but a dremel. Ridiculously wonderfully beautifully simple design.
My humble advice to anyone looking for a new gun in the budget PCP area is know your needs, know your budget, and exercise due diligence. Do those things and you'll most likely wind up with what you're looking for. Regardless of who made it or where it was assembled.
-
Thing is a lot of folks tend to lose sight of the fact that Hatsan, Benjamin, Eunjin & many other guns on the market today were made to be and marketed as budget pcps. As a direct result of this there will be those who hat like some brands more than others, and QC issues that may vary from one brand to the next. Allowing personal preference to bias ones opinion for or against one make or another is an individuals privilege. But just keep in mind these guns are what they are and as such will all have shortfalls in one dept or another.
That being said, I love my Hatsans for 3 simple reasons regardless of their downsides.
1-Generally they provide lots of power and accuracy otb
2-They are easily modifiable to whatever needs a shooter may hàve
3-They are based on a ridiculously simple platform. So simple to the point that even if certain parts are not as readily available from the dealer or manufacturer, they can be made by hand I one were to choose to do so. Quite recently I completely remade all the moving parts in the BT 65 trigger group with nothing but a dremel. Ridiculously wonderfully beautifully simple design.
My humble advice to anyone looking for a new gun in the budget PCP area is know your needs, know your budget, and exercise due diligence. Do those things and you'll most likely wind up with what you're looking for. Regardless of who made it or where it was assembled.
That's great info to know. Thanks! I am growing fonder and fonder of Hatsans day by day. It was due to the videos of BWalton, a good friend to budget-conscious airgunners, that I came to consider and then purchase a Hatsan AT44-10, and I like it so far. I will know more when the JSB 18.1 pellets come tomorrow and I do an initial chrony run and 25 yd groups as a benchmark and starting point.
Jere
-
Thing is a lot of folks tend to lose sight of the fact that Hatsan, Benjamin, Eunjin & many other guns on the market today were made to be and marketed as budget pcps. As a direct result of this there will be those who hat like some brands more than others, and QC issues that may vary from one brand to the next. Allowing personal preference to bias ones opinion for or against one make or another is an individuals privilege. But just keep in mind these guns are what they are and as such will all have shortfalls in one dept or another.
That being said, I love my Hatsans for 3 simple reasons regardless of their downsides.
1-Generally they provide lots of power and accuracy otb
2-They are easily modifiable to whatever needs a shooter may hàve
3-They are based on a ridiculously simple platform. So simple to the point that even if certain parts are not as readily available from the dealer or manufacturer, they can be made by hand I one were to choose to do so. Quite recently I completely remade all the moving parts in the BT 65 trigger group with nothing but a dremel. Ridiculously wonderfully beautifully simple design.
My humble advice to anyone looking for a new gun in the budget PCP area is know your needs, know your budget, and exercise due diligence. Do those things and you'll most likely wind up with what you're looking for. Regardless of who made it or where it was assembled.
Personally, I don't consider $400 to $500 as being a budget AG, that is still a lot of money to spend on anything! As I have said in the past you can buy a high end Powder burner for less that have some really good quality work put into them, as well as accuracy.
Think about it, you buy a Mrod $500 + then a $150 scope and a few accessories and your at almost $1000, If you are going to pay that kind of money for an AG it needs to be A+ out of the box, and before you say anything, it does not take any more to build an AG than it does a Powder burner.
Yes I pay the big bucks too, but whats a fella supposed to do, I just wish the manufacture's quality would coincide with their pricing (especially on barrels).
I loved my Mrod .25, wish I still had it, it was accurate and very easily tuned to what ever I wanted.
Never had a Hatsan yet, but from what I have seen it seems to be a really good starter AG. Being inline with a Mrod or close to it.
I do agree with what you are saying and a person can indeed end up with a sweet little shooter if they put their mind to it and a little effort.
William
-
Yes $500.00 is a lot of money. To some. And then its not considered to be that much by others.
There are guns on the market today that cost a lot more than what youd pay for a hatsan or an mrod. Most guns in the $500-$600 price range are considered budget guns, particularly when you look what you get for what you pay for them in comparison to other units such as the offerings from companies such as FX, Daystate, Anschutz and Steyr.
-
There are a lot of ways to look at the cost vs value of an air gun. For me, like a lot of folks, air guns were pretty much kid's toys that you were given to learn on in order to prepare you for a "real" gun. They were very inexpensive, even compared to a low end rim fire, cheap to shoot, and required little or no maintenance.
Then when I got older, (notice I didn't say "grew up", because let's be honest, none of us on this forum are grown ups... ;D), I started looking at higher end air guns to supplement my powder burners.
Yes, when I was told that a $400 PCP was an entry level gun and would require modification to reach it's potential, I was frustrated. As others have said, for what it costs to outfit a decent PCP, you could buy a couple rim fire rifles that would shoot circles around it for power and probably accuracy. I couldn't get past this fact and that's why I sent back the first two Discos I bought that had problems.
About that time I really looked at what I wanted a new air gun for. It wasn't just to deal with the pests in my back yard, but also for more long range precision shooting on my property where I can't fire a powder burner. Mostly to prepare me for hunting with my rifles without burning tons of powder and bullets that are so hard to get now.
I also came to the decision that a break barrel is just not gonna work for me. Nothing against them. I just don't have or want to take the time to develop the skills needed to shoot something so different than other guns.
Then... I realized that the comparison in price between a powder burner and a PCP isn't accurate. To me, there's more to a PCP than there is to a powder burner. Yes, a center fire rifle is more robust, but the "power plant" if you will, is in the cartridge, not in the gun. Now look at a PCP. It not only has to have the rifled barrel and all other components of a powder burner needed for accuracy, but it has to have it's power plant built into the gun as well. With that in mind, I think what I paid for my Disco and what it provides for that price is pretty reasonable.
I'll admit straight up though, I'm no purist. I'm of the mind set of using the right tool for the job. If an air gun is the right tool, I'll use that. If a powder burner is a better tool at the time, I'll use that. If it's a bow, I got that covered too. Same with fishing. A lot of fly fishing purists, (aka "snobs") in my area trying hard to get every body of water closed down to every other form of fishing. Me? I'll use a fly rod, spinning rod, bait caster, whatever works. I ain't proud! ;)
What I'm getting at with that little rant is that I won't spend what it takes for a high or even middle end air gun when my rim fire will out perform it. That is until the lead ban makes my rim fire impractical. That's when I'll step up from the Disco. At that point, I'll be willing to pay the cost for the technology to do what I need...
-
I have had a lot of 22 rifles in my life span and none were as accurate as my Marauder with a War valve and hammer set at 930 fps average out to a 100 yards. not to mention the cost of 22's now days.
-
Yes $500.00 is a lot of money. To some. And then its not considered to be that much by others.
There are guns on the market today that cost a lot more than what youd pay for a hatsan or an mrod. Most guns in the $500-$600 price range are considered budget guns, particularly when you look what you get for what you pay for them in comparison to other units such as the offerings from companies such as FX, Daystate, Anschutz and Steyr.
You are correct thats for sure, to bad they are all at least 50 to 60% over priced to start with. When people start agreeing that paying to much is ok, thats when it just goes to far I think, these companies know they could help out a little on pricing.
There are some fine rifles out there thats for sure!
William
-
FX did a fair job on pricing, take the Bobcat for example or the wildcat both are in the same price range of Air Arms and Kalibr Guns, also I don't think they are so "over priced" Yes the cost of materials, workers and machining doesn't match up a bit on the MSRP but all the work done, research, trail and error experiments deserve some value, then there is shipping and finally the company that sells them to us needs to get something, at the end of the day they do cost more than they should, but it's not a 500$ difference...
-
My at44-10s was $364 shipped,for a hunter It needed no tuning out the box.
A tune is a preference for more power and efficiency.
-
My at44-10s was $364 shipped,for a hunter It needed no tuning out the box.
A tune is a preference for more power and efficiency.
I paid $389 for the QE version. Both of those were deals!
Jere
-
I have had a lot of 22 rifles in my life span and none were as accurate as my Marauder with a War valve and hammer set at 930 fps average out to a 100 yards. not to mention the cost of 22's now days.
As an example of what I mean, I have a bull barrelled .22 that I paid right about $200 for, brand new. It wears a 4-12 scope that I got on sale for $129. That's about half what I paid for my Disco and pump. I include the pump simply because I can't shoot the gun without it. Might be fair, might not. Anyway, the Disco shoots consistent 3/4", 5 shot groups at 50 yards and I'm happy with that. The .22 on the other hand, shoots consistent sub 1/2" groups at the same range with subsonic ammo. The other day, I was shooting clays on a hillside at a measured 125-128 yards with the .22. Took about 4 shots to get the scope dialed and to compensate for the wind, but then it was pretty much hit for hit for hit. No way I could do that with the Disco.
I'm sure you could duplicate that with your Marauder, but I'm willing to bet you've got significanly more than twice the money into it than I do my lowly rimfire. On the other hand, like I said, your Marauder represents a lot more technology than my little bolt gun too, so in my opinion, the added cost makes sense.
-
;D You can't really make a fair comparison of PB vs AG a tin of premium .22 pellets 500 count will entertain you in your suburban back yard with out disturbing the neighbors. I haven't bought a 500 round brick in literally decades but I know that it is presently more than $14.99. You will also have LEO knocking on your door before you take 20 shots. Yes you can shoot further and hit harder with great accuracy with your Bull barrel .22 and I can take my bull barrel Ruger 7mm M77 and nail the 10 ring all day long at 500 + yards , but part of the reason I can shoot the 7mm that well is because I practice almost every day with my AG's
-
;D You can't really make a fair comparison of PB vs AG a tin of premium .22 pellets 500 count will entertain you in your suburban back yard with out disturbing the neighbors. I haven't bought a 500 round brick in literally decades but I know that it is presently more than $14.99. You will also have LEO knocking on your door before you take 20 shots. Yes you can shoot further and hit harder with great accuracy with your Bull barrel .22 and I can take my bull barrel Ruger 7mm M77 and nail the 10 ring all day long at 500 + yards , but part of the reason I can shoot the 7mm that well is because I practice almost every day with my AG's
Very true, and like you, part of the reason I can shoot my powder burners well is because I practice in my back yard with my Disco. However, I would have the same LEO's knocking on my door after 20 shots with my stock Disco before the TKO... ;)
The only point I was trying to make, and I think you actually helped me make it, is that if you're gonna try to accomplish the same task with an airgun that you would with a powder burner, it's gonna cost you a whole lot more money, at least if you're talking about a hunting situation. On the other hand, like you said, if it's a target shooting or practice situation where you're shooting more rounds, then the cost of cartridges, even for a rimfire, is gonna tip the scales pretty quickly.
Oh, and if you haven't purchased a brick of ammo in that long, don't. The sticker shock is gonna kill ya! ???
-
;D No problem there I have about 10,000 rounds in vacuum sealed packages for the zombie apocalypse ;) ;D
-
;D No problem there I have about 10,000 rounds in vacuum sealed packages for the zombie apocalypse ;) ;D
Hope that's enough! You know how large those zombie herds can get! ;D