GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Hatsan Airguns => Topic started by: LeCocoPuffs on August 06, 2015, 03:09:46 AM
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I bought a hatsan MOD 135 in may 2015. since that date the stock side bolt has broken 3 times. the first time they said it was a faulty bolt, the second time was the fault of El Paso Armory for not installing the bolt correctly. After I had to pay for shipping, and expressing my concern that they would only change the bolt, and they said that the rifle was going to be fully revised, they only changed the bolt. and that bolt broke again, but this time they say it was because the type of pellet I used (crosman hollow point) was not heavy enough. they want me to send the rifle once again (they are paying shipping this time) but they refuse to exchange the rifle. i'm sure they will only put a new bolt on it, and send it back.
any ideas what I should do?
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If it were me, I would demand an exchange. Especially if this is the third time in less than 3 months. They have a 1 year warranty against defects. Are you dealing with HatsanUSA? You might try contacting Rick Eusler (airgunweb) who is a member here. He might be able to help. Drop him a pm or email and see. Let us know what happens.
I would say a broken bolt due to shooting a light pellet? What bolt? This is a break barrel airgun, not a bolt action. A broken bolt, one of the three that holds the airgun together, "breaking" under normal firing is not likely. Although possible, not likely. Sorry, but I'm not picturing one of the mounting bolts "breaking" under normal use. Maybe a better description of which bolt and how it is "broken".
Good luck and as always....
SAFE & Happy Shooting!!!!
Dave
8)
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Welcome to the GTA.
Richard
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Hey CocoPuffs,
I have owned over 10 Hatsan breakbarrels and have never had broken a bolt on mine. The only (stock) bolt that comes to mind is the SAS bolt in the forestock (bolt, nut and small screw). The are two on the trigger guard, but only one has any pressure on it as it goes directly into the action and is the 2nd main support for the gun.
For whatever reason, it sounds like you're getting the run around, and the shipping is adding up :P
Contact Rick Eutsler as Dave mentioned as he will certainly help. I personally would replace the bolt myself and not pay to have the whole gun shipped (this will not void the 1 year warranty), matter of fact I would ask Hatsan USA to replace the gun and return my past shipping fees due to the ongoing fiasco. I have requested to have many small parts replaced (shipped to me) in the past and Hatsan USA has come through every time.
If you come across to Hatsan USA as reasonable, but firm, they will be there to support you.
Good Luck ................ Kirk
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any advice on what I should do? If it was me, I'd throw it in deep water and never buy another Hatsan, and tell everyone I know to never buy a Hatsan.
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Hey Uglymike,
Interesting solution ;D, sounds like it would make you feel better ;)
Kirk
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I'm super happy with my Hatsan 95 Vortex in .177, very accurate, however with a rifle with this much power I do not think it's wise to shoot anything lighter than 8 gr. PA agrees with me also.
SpiralGroove what pellets do you use in your .177 Hatsan 95? Just wondering??
I just received a few tins of Winchester .177, very tight fitting and accurate in my 95. It very well be a sleeper out there.
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Some only look at one side of the story...I am still trying to find out what screw is breaking and what is he doing when it breaks, Cocking? Taking the rifle apart? Let us know exactly what you did that causes the screw to fail, then we can better help. You can not blame an entire company when some goes wrong of else if we took others advice there would be no more airgun companies to buy from because they all fall short in some way or another. ;)
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So true/so true, I ordered and took deliverly of a new Corvette a number of years ago, in less than 6 monthe the drivers rear fender developed massive cracks at the assembly points. I still own GM products.
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Just based on what they are saying, with using a lighter pellet, there is more recoil which in turn is breaking the bolt. I would try different pellets and see what happens...
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Hey jcwit ;D,
My two .177 95's like CPM (7.9), RWS Meisterkugeln 8.2 and H&N 8.64's the best.
As others have said, "What bolt are we talking about?" We're all wasting out time unless we get more information from CPuffs.
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I talked to Hatsan USA today. I didn't make note of the name of who I spoke to, but he seemed to be aware of this lone issue. He mentioned it was the SAS bolt, and likely caused by the light weight pellets being used. He also suggested that H & N pellets should be used but HEY, that is what Hatsan USA distributes, sssooooooooooooooo.
Not claiming I know it all, just passing along what we talked about and what I learned from him.
BTW, I also talked to PA about this and their answer was to not use pellets lighter than 8 grains.
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Just noticed, it's not jcit, its jcwit LOL.
Also, thanks for the reply and info.
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Never had a problem with a SAS bolt, it's pretty big :o. Must be a recent manufacturers defect.
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Never had a problem with a SAS bolt, it's pretty big :o. Must be a recent manufacturers defect.
Very likely! Only the Lord has perfection.
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did you ask if this was a known problem with the SAS bolt or if this was specific issue?
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Sorry to say, no I did not.
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Some only look at one side of the story...I am still trying to find out what screw is breaking and what is he doing when it breaks, Cocking? Taking the rifle apart? Let us know exactly what you did that causes the screw to fail, then we can better help. You can not blame an entire company when some goes wrong of else if we took others advice there would be no more airgun companies to buy from because they all fall short in some way or another. ;)
sorry for not being more specific. it's the SAS bolt and it is breaking after shooting. everything is normal until I shoot and half of the bolt drops to the ground. this is a copy/paste from one of the emails "We understand your frustration. The first bolt appears to have simply been machined improperly. The second bolt broke because it was improperly installed. Our technician fired over 80 rounds through the rifle in testing, to ensure that there were no further problems. Your rifle performed flawlessly, with very good accuracy and velocities."
now that it broke again they are blaming the pellets. the Pellets I use are 14.3 grains so I don't think that is the problem.
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In your first post you indicate you were using Crosman HP's which weigh 7.9 grains. So which is it?
Using a to heavy pellet can be just as bad as using to light a pellet.
Hatsan themselves suggested 8 grains to 10/11 grains for pellet weight.
PA confirmed the same. I talked to both today.
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If it's a .22 14.3 is correct for the CPHPs.
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And 14.3gr is NOT a light weight pellet, no where near a PBA weight. So, IMO, they cannot blame the pellet for this issue!!!!
It's absurd to even consider it.
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Well the 135 is the largest swept displacement spring gun they have. I own two 125 th which are just a fuz less powerful. One of my rifles is a .22 an started its life as a 125 camo. The prior owner also only shot cphp's out of it. The stock broke right at the sas bolt with less than 500 rounds through it. I bought the broken rifle from him and tried to chrono it. It was in the mid500's. Took it down and the seal was demolished .After a debur lube and new piston seal plus a th stock it shoots in the mid 28 fpe. There are two giant problems with wal-mart cphp and a super magnum hatsan. First off the pellets are way too inconsistant in skirt/head diameter then the lead is too hard. When you pair these together in a super magnum the air blow by around the pellet through the rifleing does not allow the piston to decelerate thus slamming into the end of the compression tube. Which just happens to be right above the sas bolt. On top of it all hatsans commonly have a loose bore. the breach block area is snug then hardly any resistance the rest of the barrel. Without a soft skirt when the pellet makes this transition it will turn into a "bore rider".I promise you if you shoot more cphp they will ruin that gun. I have seen the damage. Ask other people why know hatsans they will tell you that cphp are a nono in a 125 or a 135. That rifle will love you if you feed it the 18.13 jsb. If it is healthy it will shoot them at 830-850fps.
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/\/\/\/\/\ well he said exactly what i said earlier but just in a few more words....
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centexmarauder, got a question for you. How bout using Crosman Premier Domed 10.5 gr. in ,177 in a Hatsan 95 Vortex or a springer. I currently have the Vortex and plan to get the spring powered version in the near future.
My accuracy is super using the CPHP pellets, shooting 1 hole groups in my garage range.
Just asking for your thoughts.
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My Hatsan 95 Vortex, .22 is very accurate with the 14.3 grain CP Hollow Points! More so than with the CP domes ones. I would think that 14.3 grains would be considered mid-weight .22, no?
-Yogi
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I also have a hatsan 95 that i will put cphp through from time to time. Not the same issues there. The 20 fpe 95. and the 30 fpe 135 are not the same category of spring gun.The backpressure needed to cushion the 95 is much less than the 135. That is why they they shoot fine from a 95 and destroy a 125 or 135. Imho
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That's funny. I have two of the Crosman XL series airguns. Never had an issue with any pellet weights. And they are most definitely in the same power class. Maybe Hatsan should learn from Crosman how to properly build a magnum break barrel. :)
And what a reversal from a manufacturer. Usually, they promote the lighter rounds by boasting xxxfps in an effort to get you to buy THEIR powerhouse airguns.
LOL
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The front bolt in question is also part of the SAS recoil reducing system, therefore subject to a lot of the shock/recoil on firing. This can be intensified by to heavy, to light, or an undersized pellet.
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I would go out on a limb a.nd say that your np xl dos not make 30 fpe. I would guess 25.so magnum yes super magnum imho no I have not taken apart a np xl or shot one. However i have rebuilt a dozen hatsans and shot thousands of pellets through the 125 series of rifles. The big hatsans and the cphp are not a good mix. The h&n ftt in 14.66 even shoot well so I stand by my statement.
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It makes 28fpe....same class as the 135.
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And 14.3gr is NOT a light weight pellet, no where near a PBA weight. So, IMO, they cannot blame the pellet for this issue!!!!
It's absurd to even consider it.
+1. Sounds like an excuse. I shot a ton of Gamo PBA's thru my old Big Cat and never caused anything to break, not even the main spring. When the engineering was done on this rifle they had to know that plenty of people would feed their guns a steady diet of 14 or so gr. pellets. My 2 cents.
Scotty
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Just putting out another perspective. I wonder how the org. OP came across to the folks at Hatsan USA.
I know for a fact that I've called them and talked to them twice now and they were very pleasant and helpful.
Just a thought. I've spent most of my life from the age of 13 in the retail business, the last 20 years with my wife's & My own business. Attitude means a lot.
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If I had any AG that broke that bolt?
I'd be checking the piston seal.
If that thing is bad it would not seal properly allowing the piston to slam into the front of the compression chamber.
There would be a tremendous amount of stress on the bolts then.
Hatsan's are known to come with an extra amount of steel shavings in the compression chamber from time to time.
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Air%20Rifles/100_0788.jpg)
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Air%20Rifles/100_0790.jpg)
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I. stand corrected on the xl #'s. you have one that. is shooting harder than all I have seen chronographed. Oh and double on what jeff just said
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I haven't had any issues with my 125 shooting chp ! They have been as accurate as h&n but I do want to go to a heavier gr pellet to help at longer distance shooting!
So far I have only shot accurately out to 60 yds but notice that with a little wind they open up a bit!
Damaging the rifle because of shooting a pellet that is too hard and has fit problems is a no brainer!
I noticed that the fit on chp's vary and the tighter fit are more predictable so I need to look at jsb and h&n
And do a good distance shooting test! I agree completely that the chp's lead are just too hard, they have gone through 3/4 plywood and stuck in the backer with little to no deformation! Thanks for this thread guys! Papppywith4
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That's funny. I have two of the Crosman XL series airguns. Never had an issue with any pellet weights. And they are most definitely in the same power class. Maybe Hatsan should learn from Crosman how to properly build a magnum break barrel. :)
And what a reversal from a manufacturer. Usually, they promote the lighter rounds by boasting xxxfps in an effort to get you to buy THEIR powerhouse airguns.
LOL
I don't understand. Are you actually ragging on Hatsan for NOT using aluminum/tin pellets in their velocity testing? Hatsan is one of the very few companies that i've seen that actually use full lead pellets when advertising velocities for their guns. Also, you (being such an experienced air gunner) should understand how a poorly crafted pellet can damage a gun. CPHP's are extremely inconsistent and are normally undersized in diameter for what they should be. This could easily cause damage in a magnum/super magnum springer.
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I agree with Kaitos, and a few others here. CPHP may work well on some rifles, however, everything I have seen on Hatsan has been very poor performance. We all know each gun will have a different preference. H&N makes several pellets in different diameters, (ie 5.53, 5.54, and 5.55 in the Baracuda Match). If you have a 135 with a slightly larger bore, than you should use a pellet with a larger diameter. A quick measure of some CPHPs I have laying around, showed a head diameter of as small as 5.40. I would try some other pellets of varying sizes and see how they perform. Just ditch the CPHPs, lol
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I. stand corrected on the xl #'s. you have one that. is shooting harder than all I have seen chronographed. Oh and double on what jeff just said
It's the 1st one I've read about capable of those numbers. Every other I've read about or seen on YT has been in the 24-25 FPE range.
And I agree with Jeff as well. I've seen some absolutely nasty shavings, far worse than what Jeff has pictured, in one of my 1st Hatsan 125s. And the seals in practically every Hatsan 125 (4+?) I've had apart were damaged in some way. Not to mention very, very hard. Not at all like the aftermarket seals available from ARH & elsewhere.
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It's the 1st one I've read about capable of those numbers. Every other I've read about or seen on YT has been in the 24-25 FPE range.
I see DEz lists his XL1100 as home tuned. So I can see it making those FPE numbers depending on what he did.
Is it buttoned, was the piston seal fitted, did he plant an N-Forcer in it, etc, etc, ad nauseam.
I've seen other AG's listed as low number producers and seen what a good tuner can squeeze out of them.
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its been almost 2 weeks since my 135 arrived to hatsan factory. still no word from them. just got my new pellets, lets see if hatsan approves
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When you pair these together in a super magnum the air blow by around the pellet through the rifleing does not allow the piston to decelerate thus slamming into the end of the compression tube.
Hatsanman13 was just in chat tonight relaying what Hatsan has told him about his gun and that was what they said. They said Crosman pellets were inconsistent in size and that blowby will cause damage due to low or not enough backpressure.
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When you pair these together in a super magnum the air blow by around the pellet through the rifleing does not allow the piston to decelerate thus slamming into the end of the compression tube.
Hatsanman13 was just in chat tonight relaying what Hatsan has told him about his gun and that was what they said. They said Crosman pellets were inconsistent in size and that blowby will cause damage due to low or not enough backpressure.
its also been said in most of his posts that people have commented on that its the corsman pellets.... so I'm really not surprised that Hatsan agrees.
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I have owned a Hatsan 135 for several years now and have shot all kinds of pellets through it. For hunting inside 20 yards I have used Crosman Destroyers exclusively. For target shooting I used mostly JSB's but have shot a lot of Crosman HP's and other pellets through it. Some of you may remember that I had a lot of issues and sent three guns back to Pyramyd Air before I got a good one. That being said I'm really happy with the rifle I have. The bore of my gun is small and even Daisy HP's fit tightly. Hatsan blaming Crosman pellets for their quality control problems sounds like bull scat to me. If blowby is a problem it's likely because they had a run of oversized barrel bores. The best thing the OP can do is like others have said contact Rick Eustler.
Bryan
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This is a very interesting thread! I guess I got a relatively good 135. When I got my Hatsan 135 last year I did a fair amount of chrony testing (please keep in mind that these results are from a period of time when the rifle was brand new and was still smoking quite a bit). Bottom line is that I would not rule out shooting .22 CPHP from a tin.
They may be inconsistent in head size (yes, some fit loose while others are tight) but at least in my case the velocities are pretty consistent. To me this would indicate that even though the pellet material is pretty hard, the skirts probably DO flare while going down the pipe. Again, your results may vary...
Oh, by the way a couple of these strings are 20-shot strings while the balance are 10-shot strings.
CPHP
Hi 999 990 988 989 998
Lo 973 971 978 976 976
Av 983 981 982 981 982
Es 26 19 10 13 23
Sd 8 5 3 4 8
But for accuracy it is hard to beat JSB 15.89 or 18 grain pellets ;D