GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Hatsan Airguns => Topic started by: river drifter on July 15, 2015, 11:06:22 AM
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Full disclaimer - I know nothing about scopes, and very little about guns. I had a Ruger 10/22 with open sights that I used for rabbit hunting when I was a kid, but that was 20 years ago. That is about the extent of my experience.
I bought a new Hatsan 95 Vortex .22 last week. It came with the Optima 3-9x32 scope, and see-through, high, 2-piece mounts. I spent yesterday afternoon at the range, shooting off a full rest at a bench. Made several adjustments to get the scope close, but could not get any consistency. Got frustrated, took the scope off, and shot several quarter size groups at 20 yards with the open sights. So I know it's not me, or the gun.
I put the scope back on and tried again. After lots more inconsistency I finally realized that with nearly every shot, the 2 mounting thumbscrews were coming loose. Sometimes I could go 2 or 3 shots without them loosening, but I would crank them down as hard as I could and still get some backing off almost every shot.
I was able to put 4 shots in a row in a quarter size group at 30 yards 1 time. That group though, was not on target, it was about 2 inches low and a half inch left. Every shot after that was a flyer again, even with tightening the mount screws between each shot. It may have just been me getting too tired and frustrated by then though.
1.) I bought some blue thread-locker. Should I use that on the mount screws?
2.) Should I by new mounts? 1-piece? Low mounts, and if so will I have to remove the rear open sight?
3.) Should I buy a new scope and mounts? If so, I need to keep it cheap $100 max. If I can make this scope work, I suppose that would be my preference.
My intention for this gun is for it to be hunting rifle. I noticed that most of the shooting I was doing, out to 30 yards, I was most comfortable on 4x magnification. Will I be happy with fixed power for a hunting rifle, and do I need AO for this scenario?
I see a lot of internet chatter about Hawke scopes. I see the Hawke Sport HD 4x32 Mil-Dot for $49, and the Hawke Vantage 4x32 Mil-Dot for $59, or the Sport HD 4x32AO Mil-Dot for $65. Hawke 1 piece Match Mount rings are about $25 for high or medium height. Any opinions on this setup? What is the difference between the Sport and the Vantage line.
Thanks for any and all input!
Edit - Thought I should add that I am shooting JSB Diabolo Exact Match 14.33 grain .22 pellets. I've got about 100 shots total through the gun.
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I also have a Hatsan 95 Vortex .22. The first recommendation I would make would be to buy a one-piece scope mount. I tried several two-piece mounts and had a terrible time with them. The scope and front bracket kept sliding back no matter how much I tightened them. I ended up going with the "UTG Airgun .22 Medium Profile Integral 1-Inch Ring Mount" on Amazon for $18. Ever since then the scope has been rock solid.
As for the scope, I upgraded to the Hawke Sport HD 3-9x40 AO scope. I don't have a lot of experience with different scopes, but this one is definitely much better than the Optima scope that came with the gun.
As for pellets, the JSB Diablo Exact shot very well in my gun, but only when I sorted out the flawless pellets. The skirt on those is so thin that it is easily bent. About 50% of the ones in my tin were bent. I've found that the RWS Super-H point are the most accurate at short ranges (< 25 yards), but for longer distance (> 50 yards) they're terrible. I've been using the Kodiak Tapered Domed 21.14 gr pellets for longer distances.
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I also have a Hatsan 95 Vortex .22. The first recommendation I would make would be to buy a one-piece scope mount. I tried several two-piece mounts and had a terrible time with them. The scope and front bracket kept sliding back no matter how much I tightened them. I ended up going with the "UTG Airgun .22 Medium Profile Integral 1-Inch Ring Mount" on Amazon for $18. Ever since then the scope has been rock solid.
As for the scope, I upgraded to the Hawke Sport HD 3-9x40 AO scope. I don't have a lot of experience with different scopes, but this one is definitely much better than the Optima scope that came with the gun.
As for pellets, the JSB Diablo Exact shot very well in my gun, but only when I sorted out the flawless pellets. The skirt on those is so thin that it is easily bent. About 50% of the ones in my tin were bent. I've found that the RWS Super-H point are the most accurate at short ranges (< 25 yards), but for longer distance (> 50 yards) they're terrible. I've been using the Kodiak Tapered Domed 21.14 gr pellets for longer distances.
Thanks for the reply!
That scope and mount look great on your rifle! Did you have to remove your rear open sight to get that setup to work?
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Hey River,
I have gone with the Leapers one piece Accushot "Offset" mount - $14.95 at PA. Allows the scope to be adjusted rearward more than the mount shown by mjones. The Offset version is a High mount, so you have clearance for the rear open sights. However, I usually remove that plastic things as the gun looks sleeker w/o.
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/leapers-accushot-1-pc-bi-directional-offset-mount-w-1-rings-high-11mm?a=2409 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/leapers-accushot-1-pc-bi-directional-offset-mount-w-1-rings-high-11mm?a=2409)
I also use the Hawke 3x9x40 scope either 30/30 or mil dot for about $80, great scope and all you really need shooting out to 50 yards or so. I've never had a Hawke break on my 95's.
Good Luck,
Kirk
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I will reaffirm the one piece mount, more "biting" surface, and be sure whatever you get it has a stop pin. Leapers makes some good ones that are also inexpensive.
Scope: for a budget minded option check out CenterPoint scopes at Walmart. They are $70 or less and hold up very well. A couple specifically state "break barrel air rifles" on the packaging too. The 4-16x40 is huge for an air rifle but it has adjustable objective for close range shooting which is nice. I have owned that and the 3-9 on 3 different break barrels
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Kirk, that Leapers offset mount is tempting. I do wish I could move my scope back just a little further than the UTG mount allows.
Riverdrifter, I did remove the rear open sight because I could see it a little bit through the scope, but it wasn't a requirement.
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I like the Center Points also.
The 3x9 I got used handled the NP2 and Walther Talon Magnum and several other AG's and is still rock solid!
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I will reaffirm the one piece mount, more "biting" surface, and be sure whatever you get it has a stop pin. Leapers makes some good ones that are also inexpensive.
Scope: for a budget minded option check out CenterPoint scopes at Walmart. They are $70 or less and hold up very well. A couple specifically state "break barrel air rifles" on the packaging too. The 4-16x40 is huge for an air rifle but it has adjustable objective for close range shooting which is nice. I have owned that and the 3-9 on 3 different break barrels
OK guys I can't picture what the "stop pin" does. My 95 has a recoil stop plate that you butt the scope mount up to, but how do the stop pins work?
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I will reaffirm the one piece mount, more "biting" surface, and be sure whatever you get it has a stop pin. Leapers makes some good ones that are also inexpensive.
Scope: for a budget minded option check out CenterPoint scopes at Walmart. They are $70 or less and hold up very well. A couple specifically state "break barrel air rifles" on the packaging too. The 4-16x40 is huge for an air rifle but it has adjustable objective for close range shooting which is nice. I have owned that and the 3-9 on 3 different break barrels
OK guys I can't picture what the "stop pin" does. My 95 has a recoil stop plate that you butt the scope mount up to, but how do the stop pins work?
Your Mod 95 will have a picatinny rail on top of the action, so just use picatinny scope rings on it.
Stop plates and stop pins are only needed if you're using the 11 mm rail with 11 mm rings, so you can remove the scope stop plate if you use picatinny fittings because you won't need it .
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good point! I forgot i was in a hatsan thread. Stop pin is mandatory for dovetail, you dont need it with hatsans rail. And picatinny rings would be fine, though in general a 1 piece mount is still the more solid option
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Check out http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/99_1519/products_id/712011606/HAWKE+SPORT+HD+2-7X32+AO+MIL+DOT (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/99_1519/products_id/712011606/HAWKE+SPORT+HD+2-7X32+AO+MIL+DOT)
Though the listing shows this as a Sport HD, the model number references to the Hawke Vantage line of scopes. The Vantage is the upgraded replacement for the Sport HD.
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I used blue Permatex Threadlocker on the large thumbscrews that hold the rings to the rail. They seem pretty solid now.
Spent some more time today at the range, and still had pellets flying everywhere. I noticed my eyes get tired when I try to shoot with the scope for a long time. Also found that I can see much better through the scope with my glasses off. I was still unable to get any kind of consistency though.
I took the scope off again and shot offhand, standing, through the open sights. I'm much more consistent that way. This photo is a typical 5 shot group at 20 yards.
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv223/mnutz1970/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-07/C1DF36C2-DEE1-42E7-88CC-D4358DEB698B_zps6fp1xzft.jpg)
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I noticed at the end of todays session that I have more screws loosening on the gun.
This one was about to fall out. Can I safely remove it and apply threadlocker?
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv223/mnutz1970/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-07/D1C48018-7B41-4A48-97D0-39B7D2AFD42F_zpszewof8am.jpg)
Here is a photo of the whole gun.
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv223/mnutz1970/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-07/F5BABF52-64AB-4895-80E3-8FD632D563CA_zps0o7ut4j1.jpg)
Here are the scope ring thumb screws that I used threadlocker on.
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv223/mnutz1970/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-07/4400FBC7-651A-427A-AD6B-A730873A0302_zpsbxyscc6f.jpg)
Thanks again everybody, for any and all input!
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You issue with Hatsan 95....
Hey friend, just weighing in on your post to see if I can help. Have the same gun, (22 cal) with supplied scope (center point). I sighted that in after tightening everything down, (repeatedly, every 15 shots or so) just to keep things tight before I used lock tight.....I started by using what others recommended Diablo's, etc. I just couldn't get it consistent, bout like yours. Then I just bought 2-3 other brands of pellets, including the crossman Premium, hollow point, 14.5, and man what a difference these hollow pts gave me....beginning with a modest 1-3" pattern at 30 yards, mostly 2" with occasional flier. I do have to occasionally tighten all screws, on stock, trigger guard, and scope screws/rings. (Make certain that stop plate, comes with that set up... two Phillips heads, is tight) I even had a small tin of Crossman premium domes, and round nose, and tho the same brand, no cigar. They were clearly not a match. Just the hollow pts...I thought, "can just using a different pellet make that much difference?" Answer: resounding YES! Now, at 30 yards, 2" ...not bad considering. But that was resting off a table/pillow with my hold. But here is the fine tuning clincher....what else I found out...these hatsans love being held:). Mine SO does. Everything being the same, Crossman hollow points, distance, power up to 9 on scope, I'm amazing myself hitting a consistent 1" pattern (occasional flier) 8-10 times, holding it military style. Elbow resting on table, forearm in my palm, slight finger pressure. This has also allowed me to shoot instinctively, meaning, I just time my trigger movement when instinctively I know my crosshair is landing on the target. I'm shooting 1" groups and many into the same hole, and I'm just amazed this gun can be this accurate at 35 yards. Two things, those pellets (they seat very tight, press them even into the receiver) and hold. Incidentally, I viewed an air gun show on sportsman channel (or pursuit channel) and they tested 5 different pellets shot into a clear rubber gel block. (maybe silicone) not surprisingly, those same hollow points were the top in penetration and energy. (Don't think accuracy was apart of the test). Rick the host did say they shoot very consistently. So I would just hope everyone who target shoots could enjoy such "aw-ha" moments and love their gun/scope combo as I do. Such a thrill. (Also, this past spring, took a 23lb gobbler with this gun at 30 yds. Drilled him thru the head, and dropped him in his deep frier:) most rewarding payoff ever. Lots of target practice tho. Hope that helps.
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I noticed at the end of todays session that I have more screws loosening on the gun.
This one was about to fall out. Can I safely remove it and apply threadlocker?
Welcome to GTA Mark ;D
You will gather correctly finding "the" hold and "the" best pellet effects accuracy. Only thing I will add is sometimes what shoots best @ 20 yards can get worse at longer range (especially low BC stuff like hollow points).
I prefer purple loctite, and you probably need to use it on all of the screws holding stock and scope - if they are not working loose now, they will be.
Also, a "paint roller rest" is easy to make so might be worth looking up.
One last word, ya got Kirk talking (even better, offering advice!), keep him talking ;) ;) ;) Man-O-Man is he knowledgeable ;D
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Well Methuselah,
Sometimes I wonder how knowledgeable I am when it comes to these airguns ???
However, I will say, the biggest improvement I found with my Hatsan springer's was to tune the trigger so that you have a light, consistent release. Like CDT said, the trigger release should almost surprise you when you pull it.
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Thanks for the replies guys! :D
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(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv223/mnutz1970/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-09/8F3EEEA4-E052-45CE-9045-0594017CA811_zpsrp8libj7.jpg) (http://s686.photobucket.com/user/mnutz1970/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-09/8F3EEEA4-E052-45CE-9045-0594017CA811_zpsrp8libj7.jpg.html)
Everything is going good with the gun. I settled on JSB Diabolo 15.89 pellets and am happy with them. The Optima 3-9x40AO Mil Dot scope is holding up fine. I used blue Loc Tite on all the screws and everything is staying tight now. I installed swivels and a Butler Creek sling and it's ready to hunt. Cottontail season started Sept 1 and I've got some good spots scouted. I'm waiting for it to get colder though, looks like we should start having nights below freezing about mid Oct.
Thanks everyone, and good luck out there!
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Hey I'm curious. Where did you get your shoulder strap and noticed it was mounted to the barrel. Wouldn't that put a lot of tension on ur barrel to open while fit tightly on your shoulder? Just curious.
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Hey I'm curious. Where did you get your shoulder strap and noticed it was mounted to the barrel. Wouldn't that put a lot of tension on ur barrel to open while fit tightly on your shoulder? Just curious.
The sling is a Butler Creek Comfort Stretch sling. They are well made, super comfortable, and fairly inexpensive. They are available at most any hunting supply store.
The swivels are Uncle Mike's 1052-2. Also known as the Beeman 250 barrel band swivel mount. I read somewhere that the older green label Uncle Mike's swivels are better made, so that is the one I bought. The sets are still available on eBay for about $15, that is where I got mine.
I understand your concern about pressure on the barrel, but I have had no problems. This is a pretty common setup on break barrel guns, and seems to work fine for everyone. I don't use the sling as a shooting aid (that would certainly affect accuracy on our guns) , just for carrying it in the field.