GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: chekbone on July 01, 2015, 04:00:50 PM
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I bought a Crosman 2250 about three weeks ago and have already gone through about fifty 12g cylinders. This is getting costly already. Over the three weeks i've taken numerous shots (per squirrel) at five pesty squirrels, none of which actually fell out of the tree on the first, second or third shot. The 2250 is a nice shooter but seems to me to be under powered, more for birds and paper. I do notice that it shoots harder if I leave it in the garage rather than in the house but afraid the humidity may eventually ruin it. Is there a more powerful co2 pistol or carbine? I prefer short shooters (pistol,carbine) but feel it to be cruel and inhumane to have to shoot a should-already-be-dead squirrel six more times? I shoot straight so i'm pretty sure that all I need is a bit more power.
Chekbone
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We have a couple 2240 carbines with 17" crosman barrels (cut and crowned by me) that we converted to .177 and shoot CPUM 10.5s. They shoot nice and flat and plenty of knock down on a tree rat at 25 - 30 yds.
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you could look into a hipac
my 2400kt in 22 cal shoots at just shy of 8 fpe, which is on the light side for squirrels at any decent distance using co2 and even with a boss valve did not increase dramatically. granted I did not try a larger TP in it.
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for starters, welcome! the 22xx line of guns from crosman are great little c02 carbines/pistols. however they are heaviliy restricted in some instances. 1 c02 powerlets are not as cheap as they could be and don't last long. 2. yes they are under powered. it will have more oomph if the gun is 75 degrees or warmer. storing it inside your home at probably 68 degrees is definately causing you come power loss. i feel that a .177 c02 gun is more effective for hunting than a .22 c02 gun, but thats just me. they are great guns very accurate, but they are limited. try looking into bulk fill mods. they add a TON of shots to those guns. also remember. that gun is rated 550 fps with .22 pellets. i'm not sure if that is rated with alloy or with lead. a 14.3 grain lead pellet traveling at 550 fps is plenty for nutters, however if you only shooting 400-450 fps, thats a little under powered. aim for head shots only, and keep distance under 20 yards.
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How big of a hole are you getting in your CO2 carts? Screwing the CO2 cap on too tight can sometimes result in problems. Basically the seal washer compresses into the space that the puncture pin has to pass through and impedes the valve from opening fully. A good indicator this is happening is a very small hole in your CO2 carts.
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You might want to take a look at the transfer port ?
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What pellets and what range? My 2250 bone stock had no issues taking squirrels at 25 yds or less with head shots. Hipac and boss valve will definitely speed things up. You will need a pump if you do not have one. Cool part about the hipac is there are no needed mods to the gun. Screw it in pump it up and shoot the gun. If you want to go crazy on power you can. Ive had mine spitting out 15.9 gr jsb's in the mid 750's for a couple shot but the trigger was nasty and hurt to cock the gun cause how heavy the hammer spring was. I have it set up now for 620's with the same pellet and getting about 17 shots in a 1/2 inch group at 25 yds. If you want to use a bottle with the hipac you can so its like bulk filling. just use qd fitting to hook up to the hipac. that's the best part of these crosman 22xx guns. so many options and none are that expensive.
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Thanks for the "Welcome" and all of the insight. There must be a mutant species of squirrels here in Texas. I got a head shot on one and can swear that it had to have bounced off at 20 yards with CPHP. Maybe it was already dead but was still holding to the tree. Three more shots and it finally fell. Like any humane hunter i'd prefer the one shot kill. I got a chance to do some extra reading and found a few options but with many variations. I'm not sure if i want to rebuild the gun but I know the co2 route is pretty much a goner. I was reading about the bulk fill co2 valve, Boss valve and hipac valve. It's understood that air is better than co2 even if the only reason is that air is free, and free is always good. Do they all work with air? I'm all read out, too much information to read through it all. Where can I find more information on the valves and performance? I think this is going to become a project but hoping for, as stated above, crazy power.
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Yeah, I suppose you can do a few things with them.
Here's a recent little project build. We are calling it a 2555.
It began as a 2240,... we did a little tinkering,... and morphed it into a .25 cal PCP, pushing 25.3 gr at over 750 FPS and 32+ FPE , using all Crosman parts,... (and a homemade fill ftg. , and LDC).
Still not done tinkering with it, and going to try to squeeze a bit more from it.
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/Airguns/IMG_0204_zpsw4zqqrqn.jpg) (http://s979.photobucket.com/user/ronsnewemailis/media/Airguns/IMG_0204_zpsw4zqqrqn.jpg.html)
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/Airguns/IMG_0203_zpsinje8168.jpg) (http://s979.photobucket.com/user/ronsnewemailis/media/Airguns/IMG_0203_zpsinje8168.jpg.html)
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If slightly bad words aren't allowed please accept my revision. DAYUM...you Suppose? A Little project? Unfortunately there aren't any deer in my backyard, just squirrels harassing my dog for hours at a time. Just high enough where he can't climb and just confident enough where they don't move with him there. I just want to knock them out of the tree under a one pellet per squirrel scenario, lol.
BTW, what's that hanging thingy at the end of the bottom tube?
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BTW, what's that hanging thingy at the end of the bottom tube?
that's the fill fitting for recharging it with air.
This gun is now a "PCP", not Co2 powered.
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I bought a Crosman 2250 about three weeks ago and have already gone through about fifty 12g cylinders. This is getting costly already. Over the three weeks i've taken numerous shots (per squirrel) at five pesty squirrels, none of which actually fell out of the tree on the first, second or third shot. The 2250 is a nice shooter but seems to me to be under powered, more for birds and paper. I do notice that it shoots harder if I leave it in the garage rather than in the house but afraid the humidity may eventually ruin it. Is there a more powerful co2 pistol or carbine? I prefer short shooters (pistol,carbine) but feel it to be cruel and inhumane to have to shoot a should-already-be-dead squirrel six more times? I shoot straight so i'm pretty sure that all I need is a bit more power.
Chekbone
You sound a little like me when I first joined this forum with my 2400KT. I had an 18" barrel on mine which puts out a little more FPE than your 2250. One of my first posts here was a question about not having enough "oomph" to knock down starlings. The advice I got at the time was to improve my shot placement. Turns out you can't just aim for the center of mass. Duh! For birds, it's either a headshot or upper body (vitals/bone). In the 1.5 -2 years since then, my kill percentage has gone way up. I've gotten some higher power rifles for sure, but my most consistent bird killers are a RWS 850 putting out about 10 FPE (8.4gr @ 750 FPS) and a 5 FPE Daisy Avanti 888 (8.4gr @ 500 FPS). Of course this was before the starlings wised up. Now they stay about 50 yards out when I actually see any. >:(
If you can live with a longer shooter, then my suggestion is to get the 24" barrel. I read somewhere that you gain about 10 FPS per inch of barrel. Makes it quieter too.
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I'm not much on rifles unless it's a 300 Win-mag with a buck on the danger end. I'm sure there more speed to be gained past 14" but think 24 may be too much. Physics tells me that pellet drag would be a bigger issue with co2. Think I need to get more power first. What's the best option that doesn't require building a deer rifle like the one above. I read about hand pumping and think air is the way I want to go. I already have a bicycle pump.
Tri-5-ron, how long does it take to pump that thing up.
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HPA is all I run mine on, more power and like you I love me some free stuff.
Check out Crosman-airpistol-owners-forum.com I think that hows its spelled. That's 90% of what they do is build and rebuild crosman guns. there is also a crosman gat on here that has tons of info. Lots of member here are on there as well.
do a google search of mountain air, mellonair, mac1, crocked barn or brian and associates, jds airman, tko22. tons of shiny cool parts on there and ideas when you look at all their pics of custom guns.
And like with all the other new comers to the 22xx platform I feel obligated to warn you about the path you are starting, its addictive and these guns multiply like rabbits! You buy one do a little work and next thing you know there are 4-5 laying around you all configured differently for a different purpose. the parts are everywhere, inexpensive and super shiny making them irresistible to that inner raccoon, you just got have it!
Good luck brother and welcome to the addiction. you will have a squirrel slayer soon.
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I'm sure there more speed to be gained past 14" but think 24 may be too much.
What's the best option that doesn't require building a deer rifle like the one above. I read about hand pumping and think air is the way I want to go. I already have a bicycle pump.
Tri-5-ron, how long does it take to pump that thing up.
14" to 18" is very nice on them. Here's my 1322's. pistol is a 12" barrel, Carbine is an 18" barrel.
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/Airguns/IMG_0080_zpse2nwjxef.jpg) (http://s979.photobucket.com/user/ronsnewemailis/media/Airguns/IMG_0080_zpse2nwjxef.jpg.html)
24" is getting waaayyy to long IMO, (and yes,... I've tried it)
here's a pic of it while wearing a Disco barrel and a Mrod shroud.
(http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae274/ronsnewemailis/IMG_0862_zps3a663f90.jpg) (http://s979.photobucket.com/user/ronsnewemailis/media/IMG_0862_zps3a663f90.jpg.html)
(the shroud is about 5" longer than the barrel)... But it was the quietest gun I have ever fired too. You could literally hear the hammer strike, then the pellet impact.
It was more of just a fun experiment because I had the parts laying around.
Deer Rifle ? hahaha,... not hardly !... (you need to look at something like Tom's .357 Slayer if you want to go that route) ;D
but it will make for a nice little squirrel / rabbit popper at about 30 yards.
Pumping ? ? Whats THAT ? ? ? ;) ;D
(although I DO own a pump,... I've only used it a time or two on my 1800 psi FDPCP.
I much prefer to use one of my tanks to fill 'em with ;) ;) ;)
and no, sorry,... but a bicycle type pump will not get you what you need for anything powered with HPA.
cheapest hand pump is the one from Flying Dragon at $160.
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Chek, i will say, PCP is a long dangerous and rather expensive road most of us travel. i started off with a .177 Mrod and a hand pump. now i have a Airhog tank, .25 caliber Condor SS, and eyeballing a new toy in the future. I have roughly $ 650 invested in my air tank, and roughly $800 invested in my Condor SS (stock gun + scope). be mindful, if you start going HPA, you might be better off buying a FDPCP from flying dragon air rifles.
Mr. Melik comes very very very highly recommended by just about everyone here, including me.
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HPA is very expensive to get started in, or can be. I second the Flying Dragon deal if you want to go that route. Also you may want to check out a secondary bulk fill tank that just screws into the main tube of your 2240. Keep in mind it may take some time to find one, but if you are shooting from a fixed location(a hide) that would be an easy fix.
As I got told when I first got my 2240 these are like the Ruger 1022 of the airgun world, lots of different options to build them anyway you like.
Don't be afraid of the dark side😈
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Things can get out of control expensive in the dark side for sure. I have around $2000 in my Condor then you throw the nv scope and laser on it and its about $3000.
but that's the cool thing about the 22xx. I got about $300 in it and once I thrown the reg'd bottle and bulk fill it will maybe be $550. The pump is about the biggest part. A good hill pump will run $300 but once bought is all you need. I pump my condor from scratch, its no picnic but gets the job done for free.
No experience with FD guns but know he is a d&^% good dude and has very good standing around here.
And no matter which gun you go with BE CAREFUL! compressed air is very dangerous. we are not talking 150 psi your looking at 3k psi. on the high end. BUt man o man is it fun.
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Thanks guys for all the input and valuable info. Thanks Onebad for the part links. Thanks Geoffrey_K for the hipac suggestion.
Holy Moly, AM I ADDICTED ALREADY? IS THIS WHAT I HAVE TO LOOK FORWARD TO? Last night started reading and researching. At 2am I was a nine pack down and still reading and researching. Think i hit my re-hightened awareness around five beers after midnite. I scribbled out a prospective parts list and Holy Moly..again. The cost of parts on my list almost equaled my truck payment. With having to spend money on another pump, I hear my bike pump won't work. I read good and bad about the hipac mod and but it seems to me, and my wallet, that the hipac is the cheapest place to start. Thanks for the suggestion It says no modifications needed.. I think the 1st grade is a comfortable class for me to start in. It's not that i lack mechanical aptitude but with nothing to tinker with how hard can it be. Plus, they r giving away the extension and bolt probe. Anybody tried the probe? I was making my list and was gonna get the extended hollow probe. Can I use a regular paint ball tank rather than a pump. I saw some pictures that look like PB tanks teathered to the guns, or is it a special setup?
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Hahaha,
yep, you ARE addicted now and there is no turning back.
you are now BORG, you have been assimilated, resistance is futile.
As most of us here have already learned, it's better to just go with it that try to deny it. It's something that comes with admitting the "Force of the Darkside" is stronger than we are.
As I sit here typing this, I am building another "2555 Franken Beast"
will post pics later
There is no 12 step program,
there is no cure,
yes,.... it is terminal
May luck be with you!
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Yeap, Hipac is the quickest and easiest way to get into pcp. You screw it into the gun and it replaces the co2 cartridge and cap. Have not used his bolt but have long probe bolts in my 2250,2400 and 1377, will get you a few fps and get the pellets past the transfer port. That's a good deal getting the extension for free. I have one on my 2400. Adds a few more shots. They are good people to do business with also. always answered all my questions and I had a lot when cutting my teeth in pcp.
Yeah the parts list get a little crazy especially after a few brain lubricating cocktails.
Welcome to the sickness bro. its all over now. lol
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ANOTHER 2555? Really? Well I hope you've started a thread for the build, that's all I'm saying. Lol
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I finally made it back, safe and sound. Hope everybody had a banging 4th. I spent mine at the farm of a friend. A buddy of mine has a serious crow problem so thought me and my 2250 would go help. He said crows and i thought he was talking about the small blackbird crows I see in my yard. Heck, I pop those ones off on co2 like nothing. These darn things were full fledged ravens. Most of them were the size of hawks. If I hadn't known better i'd swear they were wearing pellet-proof vest. I can't wait to start my power trip. BTW, who has the best valve or is modding a better option. I have no idea where I read it but it stated that a Dremel tool is pretty much all you need for valve work. Think i'll try my luck tinkering withthe valve this weekend. My hipac unit should be here by here tomorrow - thanks Alex - but can't try it out til I get a pump. Can't get a pump til I get some money. Can't get the money unless i cut back on beer, cigarettes and gas, lol.
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hello Steven,
Yes full sized crows can be quite resistant to body shots.
this is because the shafts of the wing feathers are VERY stout and "energy absorbing". Any "profile" body shot requires more power than most shooters would figure.
as well, even for a straight on breast shot, the ribcage is stout and flexible.
Again,... some significant power to flex, break, and penetrate the ribs/sternum is necessary, AND,... a very well place shot for the heart and lungs.
Crow/Ravens are tough. No doubt about it.
They are also VERY smart.
Once a few are taken out, the others will recognize a rifle as danger, and will take off flying as soon as they see you carrying a rifle.
I don't know if you have seen my thread on my most recent build in progress, but you might find it interesting.
here's a link:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=93564.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=93564.0)
happy pesting !
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I wondered if you would get the bug, welcome to the darkside.
I put a hipac on my 2250 as well, very versatile setup.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/402/19347708288_d77aae21bb_b.jpg)
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Now that's a nice looking gun.
thanks for sharing.
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I wondered if you would get the bug, welcome to the darkside.
I put a hipac on my 2250 as well, very versatile setup.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/402/19347708288_d77aae21bb_b.jpg)
That is a nice looking set-up.
is that a BNM breech ?
Where did you get the stock and forearm ?
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I wondered if you would get the bug, welcome to the darkside.
I put a hipac on my 2250 as well, very versatile setup.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/402/19347708288_d77aae21bb_b.jpg)
That is a nice looking set-up.
is that a BNM breech ?
Where did you get the stock and forearm ?
Just remember Ron... I seen it first.......lol
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I really did get the bug. I've been sick as a dog for the last few days. It may be "the curse of the crow". Old man told me that if you shoot one that doesn't die and it sees you as it flys away, you'll get the curse. At least I didn't grow a beak and feathers...yet. My hipac arrived and now just waiting on the pump. Think i'm going to have to skip groceries this week though. Good thing my wife likes soup and water, lol. I did do a little valve work during my illness and I have to say...OMFG 12g co2 went from 40+ down to 16 shots. Even thought they're more powerful and louder. I can swear i see spray coming out the end of the barrel. BTW, cycle pump didn't work. Neither did my baloon blower upper.
Sultan...real nice setup.
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Thanks guys, the breech and stock are from GMac. It's got 2 hipac extensions, and an 18" barrel, which help if you're using a modded valve. This one has the hipac valve . I think Ribbonstone has posted some good info on these,