GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: temchik on May 29, 2015, 03:08:16 PM
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Hi All,
I have a strange problem (maybe) with my new Gamo Recon Whisper rifle. The Crosman Competition pellets are a very loose fit and will fall out of the breach if I close the gun normally, I have to point it downward for them to stay. But they shoot fine, well, when I don't accidentally crush one on it's way out of the breach :)
I have tried CPHP and they are a much tighter fit, some won't go in without a significant push, but when I look down the barrel after CPHP I see some kind of black/brownish smoke. It disappears if I blow into the breach - is this dieseling?
I've shot maybe 100-150 pellets through the rifle and it's still doing it with CPHP
Thanks!
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Perhaps Dieseling. I have a Whisper Fusion Pro and it stopped dieseling after say 50 or so Pellets if i'm remembering proper. If its darker smoke perhaps there is some un-natural friction burning something up? I think 100-150 shots is plenty to burn off dieseling...... are you oiling your pellets excesively? are you using oil based lubricant on the barrel o-ring? Food for thought.
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The rifle is stock, I just cleaned the barrel, that's it. Not oiling pellets or anything. What I've heard of dieseling made me believe it's the looser fit or lighter pellets that might cause it, not the other way around...
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Dieseling is caused by the combustion of lubricants, not the fit of the pellet. If you have heat, air, and fuel you can have fire - which is what dieseling is. The heat is provided by the air compressed by the spring and piston. Air is there as well. All you need to add is fuel, which is why you don't oil a springer.
If the excess oil is still there after cleaning the barrel and shooting fifty pellets or so you probably have excess lubricant in your compression tube from the factory. It will burn off eventually and hopefully not damage the gun in the process.
A little smoke is normal at first. A report like a rimfire is cause for concern.
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I am new to air rifles will Dieseling damage or maybe even ruin air rifles I am going to buy the Umarex Octane 22 cal I have $250 to buy me one with & this one meets all of the requirements I am looking for
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Timothy,
Read the words of Thomas (Roadworthy) in Reply #3 above. All high powered spring and gas ram air rifles will diesel and/or detonate if they get flammable lubricants in the compression chamber, transfer port and even the breech end of the barrel. The Octane is certainly no exception and factory lubricants may take some time to burn off. Clean the barrel before shooting it, and again after a hundred shots or so (dieseling should have stopped by then). Although some dieseling is normal with a new rifle, detonation a violent explosion, witnessed by a loud crack as the round breaks the sound barrier can be harmful. If allowed to continue, its shock wave will cause internal parts of the rifle to be damaged (main spring can break). Just be aware.
AR
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Hi All,
I have a strange problem (maybe) with my new Gamo Recon Whisper rifle. The Crosman Competition pellets are a very loose fit and will fall out of the breach if I close the gun normally, I have to point it downward for them to stay. But they shoot fine, well, when I don't accidentally crush one on it's way out of the breach :)
I have tried CPHP and they are a much tighter fit, some won't go in without a significant push, but when I look down the barrel after CPHP I see some kind of black/brownish smoke. It disappears if I blow into the breach - is this dieseling?
I've shot maybe 100-150 pellets through the rifle and it's still doing it with CPHP
Thanks!
Fit of the pellet could matter if you have "fuel to burn" in the chamber still ... it is pressure that creates the heat for ignition and if the pellet is so loose it actually falls down the barrel then less pressure (almost the same as dry-firing). With a good fitting pellet if you have smoke it is likely from dieseling, and after 100 to 150 pellets it may indeed be cause for concern.
Sorry I can't be of more help, I'm too new at this to know if you have a situation which could result in damage to your spring, etc. Perhaps if you use something like Chrono Connect (cell phone app) to give you some fps numbers for posting it would generate a more certain response from the group?
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Thank you all for your replies,
Update: I do not see the smoke anymore with either pellet, so, all is well, the factory lube excess must have burned off already
I have tried the crono app, but it gives me wild results ranging from 200fps to 1100 fps, neither of which are in the vicinity of being true :)
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Cleaned the barrel, filthy (but Crosman pellets always are, some kind of black substanse on them, possibly graphite). Shot a test one, no smoke. I may disassemble the rifle at some point to learn the inner workings and lube it properly, but it will do for now.
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Be Very cautious of the disassemble procedure. Alot of springers will require a vise to keep pressure on the spring while taking the gun apart. that spring is under ALOT of force. Don't get hurt!as an idear... I would try to find someone who has done it before as a tune. There might be more you want to do to the rifle while its apart than to just wipe out excessive oil. I also learned while bobbing around online with airguns is that there are certain lubricants and such that can help your rifle shoot better in general and or protect the inner workings longer/better. Just be safe! We don't want to see you get hurt!
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Thank you for the warning, yes, I am aware of potential issues, will even take out the screwdriver until I am sure I know what I am doing. The tinkerer in me screams "NOW!" but I am not listening on this one yet :)
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Ok I thank you for the warning I plan on taking the best care of my Octane possible & I wouldn't wont to do anything to damage it in any way . I saw a few idiots on You Tube Dieseling on purpose & I figured that it wasn't a very good thing to do I am disable & live on a fixed income & I CAN NOT pay over $200 for a rifle & then ruin it so I thank you & GOD BLESS
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Interesting, I took the stock off and as far as I can see the gun is not "overlubed" at all.. There's some kind of moly/lithium grease in places and on the piston itself, but the spring looks dry...
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Ok, I have no idea what's happening, but the more I shoot this rifle the louder and harder to cock it gets! I am now getting mild ringing in my right ear after each shot indoors and it feels cocking effort is increasing... I am about 500 pellets into this rifle and it should be fully broken in by now...
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Ok, I have no idea what's happening, but the more I shoot this rifle the louder and harder to cock it gets! I am now getting mild ringing in my right ear after each shot indoors and it feels cocking effort is increasing... I am about 500 pellets into this rifle and it should be fully broken in by now...
Like I said, I'm new at this ... chronic connect can be picky to set up if it has trouble hearing report or impact, so perhaps it heard only dieseling shots and you finally broke the spring?
If under warranty I'd call the folks who sold it to you, and if not it might be best to look inside at this point. Make sure if you opt the latter that you are fully researched on the task, risks, and if needed build a spring compressor. IF NOT ABSOLUTELY SURE OF WHAT YOU ARE DOING YOU RISK SERIOUS INJURY OR WORSE!
I hope others chime in here, like I said, I'm new...
Jus my .02
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I checked the innards and everything seems fine and intact. I may do a full re-lube on it, researched it extensively and it doesn't seem like a hard thing to do, provided I have some sort of a spring compressor... this isn't a powerful rifle, so, according to the videos there isn't much tension on the spring...
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What about the intake? Its not a pneumatic pumper but we have to displace a piston. How is air getting into the cylinder in order to be pushed into the rear of the pellet and out. Wherever that air comes from make sure it cannot "breath" oil. Any other oiling going on with the airgun? Aside from that id run a white glove test on the rear of your ammo. lead does not sink through cotton. Oil will. If you swab the back of a pellet with a clean white cloth and look at the reverse side it should not look wet.
At this point I would stop trying to solve this yourself and I'd pick up the phone and call a custom shop that sells break barrels. I have been doing business with Roy at mountain air. He may have an answer for you.