GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Vintage Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: cwlongshot on April 28, 2015, 07:52:35 AM
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Is there any posts about installing Timmys GEN II LDC on a Model C Sheridan?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Air%20Rilfes/Sheridan/038E99E1-F863-48B7-99F5-ED6DA0E8E91D_zpsut7bztcl.jpg)
I just got one back from Tim and I am very impressed and would like to add one to another Dan I have.
Getting the front site safely off is my concern...
CW
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Thanks for posting that picture. It's probably the best picture I've seen of one of these installed. That said, I've obviously not installed one. I did however remove the front site from two Benjamin pumpers in preperation to install LDC. With the front end disassembled, I just applied heat via torch to front sight while keeping a little pressure on the sight in the direction that would push it off. Once the solder melted, the site fell on the floor.
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Almost 200 views...one reply. NO ONE else has done one of these??
Tim did my first one and its awesome!! I need another!!
CW
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Nope cant help you Brian. To rich for my blood right now. Whats that LDC cost 75?
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Almost 200 views...one reply. NO ONE else has done one of these??
Tim did my first one and its awesome!! I need another!!
CW
Brian,
Best to call and talk to Tim.
When I was there yesterday, we talked a litle on them. they are a bit trickier than installations on other guns, due to the adapter that is necessary to get them on a 'dan.
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Heating and removing or sliding aft the front sight is pretty easy. You tap it off or tap it back with the adapter so it(Gen II adapter) bottoms on the plug. Then you clean the area with a degreaser.
There are two long plastic spacers supplied and two orings. The guns have a wide range of barrel lengths and the spacers and orings are used to take the gap up between the barrel end and the adapters sealing point. THe seals are Chevron shaped with a pointy forward and inner bevel aft. Oring(s) can be used alone or on both sides of the plastic spacer(if one put it forward). The barrels that stick beyond the end of the action 1/4" get one oring ONLY. The ones even with the end of the action get one plastic spacer ONLY. The barrels that are aft of the tube end by an 1/8" or so can use a plastic spacer with orings on both sides. You dry fit the spacer/oring(s) to the barrel till you figure out what combination works best to stand the adapter away from the front plug so it doesn't touch. ONLY when a barrel has been cut back and recrowned will a second spacer be needed. They can be chucked in a drill motor and shortened from the front and then recut with drill point angle.
Once you are confident in the fit you mix up the two part epoxy and layer the barrel and action where appropriate and slip the thing on. Use the excess glue pushed aft to fill the gap below the brake so it is glued well to the tube on both sides. Clamp the brake Down while pushing aft and clean off the extra glue. I like to pull the bolt and make sure nothing is in the way once fitted, run a patch thru to double check clearances and then let it set up. Tap the brake aft lightly to insure the seals and spacers are seated against the barrel and make sure the adapter is not touching the plug. You only need to be able to slip a piece of paper in there but they SHOULD NOT TOUCH!
It is super important to realize you want to only put this on a fresh front end. The brake will need to be removed to do any front end lever or piston service so you want that to not happen for a long time. I would only fit it to a gun that will be maintained properly and has a good lever and piston arrangement. Getting them off is NO FUN but not impossible. Getting it right is critical to make good accuracy. If you call me and ask me if you can do it I'll say "it is OK with me".
Most have sent it back along with the gun. It takes a set of tools and skills not a lot of guys have. You must be deliberate, mindful and prepared.
I've done a lot of them now and people love them. It makes the gun far more useful when it doesn't bark so loud.
It took me a long time to figure it out, but worth the wait!
TimmyMac1
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Thanks Timmy!!
CW
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What a good dose of information.
I'm this close (holding up pinched fingers) from trying one. I need to order a few parts soon and really want to add a LDC to the list. Amazing how loud these rifles crack when at full charge.
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when I did mine the toughest part to figure out was the clamping. what I ended up doing was to clamp the stock into a bench vice with some leather to protect the stock, them mount a light shining on a white piece of paper at the other end of the bench. with the bolt pulled I could look down the barrel at the sheet of paper and make sure everything was centered. then pass a cleaning rod through to double check also.
for the clamping pressure, I used big rubber bands, placed over the mount and the front end of the rifle with popsicle sticks pushed through the ends of the bands under the forend along with some spacers to get a snug pull straight down.
for the rearward clamping pressure, a section of bicycle inner tube with a hole cut in the center to let me see through the barrel, and a long string tied to each end of the inner tube then tied back behind the receiver.
this gave me both downward pressure, and rearward pressure. and I could get just the right amount of pressure to hold everything snug, but not so tight that it squeezed out all the epoxy.
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of course check your setup dry, then check everything two or three more times before you think about mixing the epoxy. oh, for the epoxy, I cant remember if I used regular 5 minute Loctite epoxy from home depot or the high dollar g-flex that I use for knife handles.
oh, and blue painters tape to tape everything off that I didn't want epoxy on.
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Finally installed (sort of) one of these LDCs on my 1964 Blue Streak. Very strange way of going about it so wanted to share. I ended up painting this gun with one coat primer and three coats Krylon. The painting is significant because I believe it built up just enough on the barrel to make Mr Mac1's LDC fit like a glove, well more like a compression sock. It's been on the rifle for a few days and probably fifty shots or so with no adhesive whatsoever and has done great. No clipping and it hasn't moved a bit. I did dry fit it to determine how far back to move the sight and that I needed one of the supplied spacers and both orings. I may still add adhesive at some point but for now I'm very happy. I was reluctant to go all out epoxy because I'm fairly new to rebuilding these pumpers and have concern that I may have to take it apart again for whatever reason. In fact, I think I spotted a bit of spring pin shift tonight.
As far as performance...wow! Eight pump full power shots with LDC sound more like a two/three pump shot without it. I hear a little pifft of air followed by a nice smack of pellet on target. I'd like to make a video demonstrating the difference between this gun and my 392 with no LDC.
And there she is. All hushed and ready.
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Finally installed (sort of) one of these LDCs on my 1964 Blue Streak. Very strange way of going about it so wanted to share. I ended up painting this gun with one coat primer and three coats Krylon. The painting is significant because I believe it built up just enough on the barrel to make Mr Mac1's LDC fit like a glove, well more like a compression sock. It's been on the rifle for a few days and probably fifty shots or so with no adhesive whatsoever and has done great. No clipping and it hasn't moved a bit. I did dry fit it to determine how far back to move the sight and that I needed one of the supplied spacers and both orings. I may still add adhesive at some point but for now I'm very happy. I was reluctant to go all out epoxy because I'm fairly new to rebuilding these pumpers and have concern that I may have to take it apart again for whatever reason. In fact, I think I spotted a bit of spring pin shift tonight.......
....I'd like to make a video demonstrating the difference between this gun and my 392 with no LDC.
And there she is. All hushed and ready.
When the Die cast front plug is retained I have a tool that fits the gap in the plug so I can use a ballpeen and close the holes up so they hold the pin better. One of the reasons we fit a steel front plug to every Steroid is knowing how long they last and figuring the need to replace the cup a time or three. The factory plug will hold the pin once peened but normally will not hold it adequately if you don't. The pin holes erode each time a spring pin is driven and once the hole is eroded to the point where the lever fits the pin tighter than the plug, the pin starts rotating in the plug and the loose pin fate(damaged tube) is sealed. Same with the current 392 aluminum plug. It is a single use item and will not hold even a brand new pin once it has eroded slightly. Steel front plugs will not do this. The brass ones are much more resilient to the erosion than the Aluminum but no where near the Steel. That is why ALL Steroids get Steel front plugs if they don't come to us with brass. When Crosman stopped making/using the chromed brass plug I tooled up to make the steel one in the exact Profile rather than the flat one the factory opted for. A small percentage of the production was manufactured with the barrel exceeding the tube length enough for the muzzle to be in harms way(Barrel stuck out beyond the tube plug). I thought those guns needed the protection of a rounded plug and decided to make the Rounded Billet Steel plug at that point.
I always align the pin opening with the front of the gun so it is easy to see if it is getting turned by the lever when you pump the gun. If the spring pin turns in the plug when you pump it is bad news and will cause big problems (if you ignore it). Same with pins that walk out. We always put a fresh spring pin in the primary pivot as well as make sure it takes some force to drive it in. If it goes in easy the plug is eroded to the point of peening or replacement. Peening never works a second time adequately but will hold a pin well once.
TimmyMac1
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Thanks for another informative post Mr Mac1.
Probably going to go with one of your plugs. I need to decide if I need anything else. This rifle already has Mac1 adjustable piston and check valve and obviously the LDC now.
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(https://s19.postimg.org/od7vym59f/20170727_091259.jpg)
Was able to move back sight so I so I can slide on LDC for installation
(https://s19.postimg.org/83hpvpulf/20170727_095355.jpg)
Aligned with spacer and orings, added glue and clapped. As I had it clamped I tipped on the tip of the LDC to snug up the oring, spacer to the LDC. allowed to dry..
(https://s19.postimg.org/7bf1wiqeb/20170727_095411_001.jpg)
Made sure LDC and barrel are aligned
(https://s19.postimg.org/un7qzcu1v/20170727_120953.jpg)
(https://s19.postimg.org/y83mikylf/20170727_120947.jpg)
Added a little epoxy to the seam to straighten up the bond.
Not as good as Mr Mac1 would have done, but perfect for my uses. I just plink in my back yard and don't want the neighbors to notice. Only Pump the gun up to 4 times to plink a target at about 15 yds away. I don't hunt or use this gun for anything else.
I use my PCP for hunting, not this airgun.. :)
Also thank you Mr Mac1. Was so easy using your website, ordering, and quick shipping to ventura, ca, also so glad I ordered the front plug. It is steel and will last forever on my gun. also looks good..
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Well done. Most get it and realize the torch must be employed and they don't go forward. Takes a bit of confidence to get it done. It took a huge brainstorm to figure out how to design it to fit the wide variety of barrel lengths. I was stumped for months. Making them to fit each gun individually was not a workable concept.
The Bad copy has no solution to this obvious dilema and a ridiculous tendency to separate front sight and barrel from tube. Made me laugh. I've already got three solder jobs out of it.
Flattered!
Tim