GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Weihrauch Airguns => Topic started by: Broadus on April 24, 2015, 11:41:25 AM
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I think I've read almost every GTA thread, not to mention those of several other forums, concerning the HW30S and HW50S, and reread several. And, yes, some of my new airgun forum friends are saying, "Just order something, will you?" Well . . . I'm almost ready. I really am. :)
This entry into airguns started the notion of backyard plinking and occasional squirrel ridding. I've gone from ordering a Ruger Blackhawk closeout from Walmart to a good Chinese clone with a full tune to the quality of a Weihrauch. Unfortunately, I don't foresee a professional tune in the near future. And I go back and reconsider the good Chinese close with the full tune for less than an out-of-the-box Weihrauch, but it seems that the Weihrauch is just that much better quality rifle, at least that is what I read. Feel free to correct any incorrect notions.
One last new thread gasp before I order, and this may be the only air rifle I buy. I know--perish the thought. I just wanted to nail down the practical differences between the .177 caliber 30S and the 50S in one thread, if you all will humor me one more time. If there is already such a thread within the past year, please link it and I'll reread it (since I've forgotten it!) and perhaps resurrect it. I read the spec differences, but those of you who have shot both can supply some real world, practical distinctions between the two.
I know that both are light shooters, but how do they compare with each other? Lets' say the 30S has a fairly flat trajectory to 25 yards. How much farther will a 50S similarly reach? If a 30S can take out a squirrel with a head shot at 15 yards (or whatever it may be), how much more reach would a 50S have?
I know that the 30S is much easier to cock and the 50S is often said to be twice as hard.
The latest 50S's seem to have the cocking issue addressed by Weihrauch (though many on the British forums say the fix on the 99S creates other issues), but I haven't heard about the 30S. Pyramyd is about to get a new batch of 30S's in, so maybe the fix is incorporated in them.
Any similar comparisons and contrasts are appreciated.
Knowing what you know now--which would you choose?
Thanks
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Don't have the HW50, but we do have the HW30S and shoot it more than any other air gun we own and we do own all types of air guns. It's a great plinker/target gun out to about 20 yards and we use it out to 20 yards on spinner targets and silhouettes on our back yard range. At 30 yards, pellet drop gets to be an issue and it barely ticks some of the heavier spinner targets. A scope with an indexed reticle or target turrets could help for longer distances with the HW30S, but we have much better guns for 30 yards and beyond.
If you're really serious about the one air gun thing (gasp!), as much as we love our HW30S, I'd rate the HW50 as a better do it all gun. The rated 24 pounds of cocking effort is still very doable for a gal like me.
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"Knowing what you know now--which would you choose ?" I'd choose the 30S. ;D
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I would NEVER be without at least one HW30S (yes, even contemplated owning another one, setup with different sights, and so on :)) We have the luxury of owning all different types of air guns, though.
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The final arbiter has to be how you will use the gun.
I absolutely love the HW 30 / R7, a light rifle you can enjoy shooting all day. My only criticism is I find the balance a little tail-heavy, especially with scope; I prefer rifles to have some "hang" at the muzzle. And yes, it doesn't have all the power in the world.
I have never owned the current HW 50 (which is named after an older model, and was actually known as the "HW 99" when it was new), but I reluctantly agree it would be the superior all-round rifle if you regularly shoot beyond 30 yards. For a mostly backyard gun, or one to be shared with newbies, kids, or smaller adults--I'd go straight for the 30, though.
You may be under-estimating the difference in power; in rough numbers, the 30 is a 600 fps gun in .177, and the 50 an 800 fps one. That being said, don't under-estimate how effective the slower gun can be when combined with accuracy. There was a fellow on one of those "other forums" who did a fascinating series of articles on hunting prairie dogs at 50+ yards with a tuned and scoped R7 doing only about 580 fps at the muzzle! And the 30 will always be the more pleasant gun to shoot.
Both the HW 30 and HW 50 are often criticized for the 2-piece cocking linkage, which has less favorable leverage than a single-piece design, and tends to scrape the underside of the receiver. But the huge advantage of the layout is never mentioned: the elimination of a long "tuning fork" slot in the receiver; and having one solid front stock bolt in a steel seat under the front of the receiver, in lieu of two small finger-catching side-mounted screws. This is an expensive detail, often seen on pre-WW2 springers, and IMHO contributes immeasurably to the solid heft, accuracy, and "real gun" feel of both rifles.
Not to toss a wrench in the works, but IMHO the BEST all-round rifle Weihrauch ever made was...none of the above! It was that original HW 50, and it's kissing cousin, the HW 55 target rifle. It used a longer version of the same receiver tube size as the HW 30, and the famous threaded-on rear section of HW's bigger rifles (HW 35, 77, 80, 97). It was about a 700 fps rifle, and was absolutely the perfect size, weight, power, and balance for many folks. It was made for almost 50 years beginning in 1951...!
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I would NEVER be without at least one HW30S (yes, even contemplated owning another one, setup with different sights, and so on :)) We have the luxury of owning all different types of air guns, though.
Go For it!
I have two of each and thinking about building another.
Bill, If it were just you in the equation , I would say go for the 50s. If you're going to be sharing and want the wife to enjoy the sport along side you= 30s. Later if you get a 50 and the wife happens to like it = No loss and one more AG to share . ...... you get the 50 and she doesn't like it = you may be missing out on a good thing.
I love sharing the sport with my wife... Be it AG's or powder burners. You never know where it will take you. My wife has come a long way and in many areas far surpassed my abilities . From a HW 30s at 20 yards to a 308 FN SPR at 1120 yards all in two and half years. Go figure.
Resign to the fact you're going to own one of each eventually.
Good luck on your quest and Happy Shootin!
Petey
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Does your wife really show an interest in shooting? Or does she just want the squirrels out of the garden?
I like what Petey said... If your wife really is interested, get the 30. If it's just you, get the 50.
My 10 y.o. daughter can cock shoot the 30 and she is very thin. My 12 y.o. son can cock and shoot my 95 (about same pressure as the 50) and he is very thin also. I don't know how strong your wife is but assuming that she is average and no injuries to her upper body or restricted range of motion with her arms, I wouldn't think cocking either would be a difficult thing. Cocking these things is not hard, it's just not a very natural motion until you get used to it. I have found that breaking the barrel open is the more difficult part of the cocking process for those that are new to it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs5hkA59vno (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs5hkA59vno)
Here is a video I made showing how I cock my under levers and break barrels. The main thing I was emphasizing was to hold on to the lever or barrel while loading. I see many people that cock the rifle them take their hands off and stick there fingers in the breech with no way to hold that barrel back should a mishap occur while loading. It their fingers so they can do what they want but I would prefer to keep mine as long as I can! ha ha. I cock the 30 in here towards the end and I am cocking the HW77 in the beginning. Just thought that I would throw this at you since cocking may be the issue should your wife decide to get into getting them squirrels.
Accuracy and hold sensitivity between the two would be about the same with the 50 having more recoil but not bad by any standards. Just my .02 again.
Brett
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Thanks for the replies. I plan to shoot standing off-hand (is that the proper term?). Would that weigh into the equation?
I was just about to hit the confirm payment button with Pyramyd for the 30S when I thought of that. And then I read Petey's post again and Brett's came along an put a 50S in the shopping cart.
I'm glad I'm not this indecisive about most things.
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Having owned a Hw30 ( R7 ) ... Then a Hw 50S, Sold BOTH and found the all time classic Hw 35 ;D
Could not be happier being it is a calm shooter like the 35/50, but a tad larger rifle better fitting my long arm 6' frame.
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Being 5'8", Scott, I guess is something I don't have to be concerned with the smaller sizes. 6' could be another story.
I just talked with my wife. She was pretty ambivalent. She just wants to be able to keep the squirrels out of her raised-bed garden. :)
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With as short of range you're shooting. The HW30(R7) will have plenty of power to do both. Your wife will easily handle it. Kinda surprised you haven't purchased yet. LOL
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Choosing between the two to narrow it down to just ONE rifle is almost like asking for advice whether to get a slotted or Phillips head screwdriver for the toolbox, but not both ;D ;D
I would go with an HW30 if it had to be just one. Its only downside is lower power. But, it can be used for hunting and since it's very accurate, its similar to using ultralight fishing line and tackle. That type of fishing takes finesse and not brute strength of fishing line and pole. The HW30 can cleanly take game with proper shot placement, something which its light weight and accuracy definitely aid. If you get your skills honed enough, then the HW30 can be used with confidence at longer ranges. A California pest control hunter named Robert Hamilton routinely uses his Beeman R7 to shoot dozens of CA ground squirrels, starlings, black birds, etc. at ranges beyond 30 yards by using a 12x scope and carefully plotting the trajectory of his R7 from 10 to 60 yards in 5 yard increments. He uses that data and a steady rest to eliminate a lot of pests. With practice, you and your HW30 can got to 30+ yards on squirrels and still get them. I personally stick to 35yards and under with mine. Here's a link to the Writer's Corner on another forum where he gives a lot of information about how he hunts with an R7. http://www.network54.com/Forum/534641/ (http://www.network54.com/Forum/534641/) Sure, the HW50 with greater power will make the job of longer range pest control easier, but if you plan to target shoot, plink and your wife may try shooting, the HW30 is likely to bring much greater shooting pleasure.
That said, MDriskill is right on the money when he mentions other, now no-longer manufactured springers by Weihrauch like the old HW50 and HW55. If you can be patient, these might be the absolute "perfect" all-rounder springer in terms of size, weight, power and pride of ownership! ;D
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Thanks for the additional comments, and to Mark especially for the interaction yesterday and for the link you just posted.
The 30S is ordered from PA. A fine air rifle for under $300 shipped -- what's there not to like? It should be a good introduction to air rifles, not to mention to springers, I can get in some convenient off-hand marksmanship practice which should make my rimfire shooting better, my wife can handle the gun and, hopefully, keep the pesky squirrel out of the garden.
Besides, I can always add something with more power should I need it. I can see it next year, "You know, honey, that 30S just isn't quite powerful enough. Now, we could get a 50S . . . ."
Edit: Joanie, concerning the rated cocking power, 24 lbs. seems to be less than reality from everything I've read. It seems that it is at least 30, and many put it above 35.
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Congratulations.
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Congrats Bill & your SO!
What pellets did you get?
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Congrats Bill & your SO!
What pellets did you get?
Steve, your question made me laugh. I was so intent on making a decision about which gun that I forgot about pellets. :)
Do I need to start a pellet suggestion thread? ;)
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Once the new HW30 arrives, you will be very pleased you chose it, of that I'm sure! ;D The HW30s are all about fun and ease of shooting and I'm sure you will have a great time getting to know it. I recommend the JSB line of pellets in the light to medium weight. Be sure to try out the JSB Exact 8.4, JSB Express 7.9. I've had especially good luck with the JSB RS 7.3 grain pellets and these tend to shoot flatter as well.
You have exciting times ahead with all of the experimenting with pellets and how to shoot springers accurately. I've been glad to help in the decision. ;D
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You've been very helpful, Mark. I appreciate it.
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Ha ha! That's why I threw it out there.
You get so intent on the big item, the peripherals get forgotten about. I use what Mark has listed.
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Ha ha! That's why I threw it out there.
You get so intent on the big item, the peripherals get forgotten about. I use what Mark has listed.
Would you get the JSB's for the break in period or go with something else. I am obviously starting out with none on hand.
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Nothing wrong with buying a tin of Crosman CPHPs (Crosman Premier Hollow Points),in 7.9g, to start with break-in and prelim stuff. Easy enough to buy locally at your dept. store. Don't worry the ocassional flyer...which you'll have...you are at close distance so it won't be that bad. If it groups generally well with them, then upgrade (for consistency of pellets), to the boxed Crosman Premiers in 7.9g. I personally wouldn't go any heavier for that powerplant. Don't know about the lighter JSB pellets...but the heavier JSB pellets {8.4/10.4g} are good pellets. But a little heavy for R7//Hw30. Stay at 7.9 or below and you'll get the max output from that spring.
You'll probably make more mistakes as a new shooter, (like all of us)...with a new spring rifle...than a high cost pellet to start. They {CPHPs},are very good plinking pellets ;)
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I did.
Since it is known they do well in HW's, you'll still have plenty left over when she's settled in.
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Congrats Bill!
Great Choice. You're going to love that 30s and hopefully the wife does too.
Enjoy!
Happy shootin!
Petey
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YEE HAW!
You are gonna love it. All the above mentioned pellets should get you in the ball park. Even the despised RWS Superdomes do well in mine. Let us know how you like it. We are happy for you!
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Thanks, everyone. You all have been a patient help to me. I made over 50 posts before I settled on it, not to mention bunches of PM, emails, and a phone call with one of our gracious members. I think this choice has been researched and analyzed a plenty.
Now I have to collect some pellets. At least that is easier than finding .22 rimfire ammo.
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Congratulations. You would not have gone wrong with either choice.
Besides, I can always add something with more power should I need it. I can see it next year, "You know, honey, that 30S just isn't quite powerful enough. Now, we could get a 50S . . . ."
You catch on fast.
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Good decision.
For pellets I use the JSB RS/AA Falcons and JSB Express. For break in I would get some RWS Basic's, Hobby's or H&N Excite's. Decent inexpensive softer lead pellets to burn through.
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Good decision.
For pellets I use the JSB RS/AA Falcons and JSB Express. For break in I would get some RWS Basic's, Hobby's or H&N Excite's. Decent inexpensive softer lead pellets to burn through.
Thanks, Jim, for the pellet suggestions.
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Bill, when is the delivery date? If it were me, I would be checking the tracking on it at least 5 times a day... refresh, refresh, refresh, refresh. ha ha! Have fun!
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Let the stalking begin...
(http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u230/Rateracer/GIF/thchaseupssmiley_gif_pagespeed_ce_xwe3bGPQgv.gif)
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Bill--Are you ABSOLUTELY SURE it's the 30S you want and not the 50S ??? Just kidding !!! ;D ;D ;) ;)
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Bill, when is the delivery date? If it were me, I would be checking the tracking on it at least 5 times a day... refresh, refresh, refresh, refresh. ha ha! Have fun!
Let the stalking begin...
No use to be in a big hurry--the gun is backordered till the 30th, so it will be a few days yet. Maybe it'll arrive quicker than I think.
Bill--Are you ABSOLUTELY SURE it's the 30S you want and not the 50S ??? Just kidding !!! ;D ;D ;) ;)
Not entirely, Dan, but I do feel it's the safer decision unless I could have ordered both, and that isn't happening. Not yet, anyway. ;)
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Oh I wish I had seen your post sooner. I owned both rifles . I had the HW50s in 22cal and the R7 i 177cal. Both tuned. Both deadly deadly accurate. There are 2 differances . One being the HW50 is larger heavier and harder to cock compared to the lighter smaller easier cocking R7. And 2--power. 600+ versus 800+ in 177cal. So what ranges are they effective. Well I have taken grey squirrel in the yard 15yds with head shots only but mainly small sparrow pest birds in the yard and target shooting. The HW50s in 22cal will do a flat out 35 yds before dropping. I have shot at targets out to 100yds with 3- 4ft over compensation which was fun. One guy posted here taking a bunny at 63 yds thru the head clean with his HW50s in 177cal. Putting this all together. IF I could only have one springer--it would have to go to the HW50s in 177cal. But I dont have to have just one and so I still own my R7 for the fun factor. My HW50s in 22cal has been replaced by the FWb 127.
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Bill
Just teasing. In reality, you couldn't go wrong with either one. They are both winners. When you have some extra cash you can grow your collection by getting the 50S. In the mean time I'm very sure you and your wife will really like the 30S and will probably shoot it a lot. You made a good decision. Don't let wise guys like me make you doubt your choice. Not to worry even a little bit. You did good ! ;D
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Enjoy then...;)
(http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/791/576/2ae.jpg)
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Bill
Just teasing. In reality, you couldn't go wrong with either one. They are both winners. When you have some extra cash you can grow your collection by getting the 50S. In the mean time I'm very sure you and your wife will really like the 30S and will probably shoot it a lot. You made a good decision. Don't let wise guys like me make you doubt your choice. Not to worry even a little bit. You did good ! ;D
I know, Dan, not to worry. I could have bought both but cannot justify both right now. I have other financial priorities.
Besides we just had new shingles put on the roof along with gutters and downspouts. Do you know how many airguns I could have bought with that? Still, being dry is a good thing. :)
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Enjoy then...;)
(http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/791/576/2ae.jpg)
Good one, Steve. Maybe it won't be that long. :)
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Patience can somtimes be too virtuous.
But don't mind us, we amiably advised all this to live vicariously of your reaction upon receipt, so we also wish a speedy delivery.
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Oh I wish I had seen your post sooner. I owned both rifles . I had the HW50s in 22cal and the R7 i 177cal. Both tuned. Both deadly deadly accurate. There are 2 differances . One being the HW50 is larger heavier and harder to cock compared to the lighter smaller easier cocking R7. And 2--power. 600+ versus 800+ in 177cal. So what ranges are they effective. Well I have taken grey squirrel in the yard 15yds with head shots only but mainly small sparrow pest birds in the yard and target shooting. The HW50s in 22cal will do a flat out 35 yds before dropping. I have shot at targets out to 100yds with 3- 4ft over compensation which was fun. One guy posted here taking a bunny at 63 yds thru the head clean with his HW50s in 177cal. Putting this all together. IF I could only have one springer--it would have to go to the HW50s in 177cal. But I dont have to have just one and so I still own my R7 for the fun factor. My HW50s in 22cal has been replaced by the FWb 127.
Good for me to hear your opinion. I'm still combing through everyone's threads for opinions on the HW 30 and 50. And seems like the overall consensus is can't go wrong with either. I put in for the XS 12 to fill the HW 30 role and hoping I won't be disappointed. Saving for the HW 50 to get some quality in my collection. Keep us updated on your experience with your new gun. Congrats on finally pulling the "trigger". Lol
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Congrats on the HW30. If that gun doesn't make you a spring piston addict, nothing will. Sure did its magic on me. :)
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Congrats on the HW30. If that gun doesn't make you a spring piston addict, nothing will. Sure did its magic on me. :)
Thanks, Joanie. Your thread about the HW30S winter project was helpful.
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Anyone here go wood and stainless? $160 more than the standard model. She so purdy makes me want to rob the bank! What model did you go with standard or deluxe and was there any difference besides the walnut with checkering?
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Congrats on the HW30. If that gun doesn't make you a spring piston addict, nothing will. Sure did its magic on me. :)
Thanks, Joanie. Your thread about the HW30S winter project was helpful.
You are very welcome. Let us know how the 30 shoots for you.
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Anyone here go wood and stainless? $160 more than the standard model. She so purdy makes me want to rob the bank! What model did you go with standard or deluxe and was there any difference besides the walnut with checkering?
I went with the standard. I was initially going to order an HW30S Deluxe from Airguns of Arizona, but they had no .177's, standard or deluxe, in stock and didn't expect any for several weeks. I like the walnut stain and checkering of the Deluxe, but I also like the clean look of the standard and was able to order it from Pyramyd, which doesn't carry the Deluxe.
If I recall correctly, the stock of the Deluxe is not walnut but walnut-stained beech.
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Hi Bill,
Congrats on your purchase. I'm sure you will be very pleased. Looking forward to a report and pics when you receive it.
My 30s likes about any pellet I feed it, but JSB 7.3 are my favorite.
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Hi Bill,
Congrats on your purchase. I'm sure you will be very pleased. Looking forward to a report and pics when you receive it.
My 30s likes about any pellet I feed it, but JSB 7.3 are my favorite.
Thanks, Tom. Unfortunately, Pyramyd emailed this afternoon noting that my order has now been marked as a backorder. They gave no indication when it would be in stock.
That's what I needed--time to rethink the 30S or 50S decision. ;)
Edit: On Pyramyd's HW30S page, it still says it is out of stock/pre-order, that it's expected in stock of April 30, which is what the page said when I ordered. I think the status of my order had to go to "back order" since it's not yet in stock, so nothing has really changed. Hopefully, Pyramyd will have it on the 30th and then ship.
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Bill
You might try Straight Shooters. I think they show both the standard and deluxe in stock. I've bought two Weihrauchs from them and find them great to deal with. Just sayin. ;D
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+1
Great people to deal with.
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Thanks, Dan. If Pyramyd doesn't ship by Friday, I may cancel and order from Straight Shooters. Who knows--I may have talked myself back to a Benjamin 397 by then. :)
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Bill---You're killing me !!! LOL, Thanks for making me laugh. ;)