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Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 and springers ,rams => Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 => Topic started by: thumbs on April 18, 2015, 08:26:56 PM

Title: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: thumbs on April 18, 2015, 08:26:56 PM
I'm getting a little tired of the pump.  What is the best economical set up to fill my Discovery?  Where is the best place to get this stuff?  I have a scuba shop about 2 miles away but not sure if that is the way to go or not.  I know I can't afford 700 bucks for a tank for sure.

thanks
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: Yarp on April 18, 2015, 09:35:10 PM
There are plenty of relatively fresh used tanks out there. By way of example, here's a new 2008 4500psi SCBA for @265 shipped.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Drager-4500psi-SCBA-tank-45-minute-carbon-wrapped-Unused-2008-mfg-date-65-5-SCF-/231312000514?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35db450602 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Drager-4500psi-SCBA-tank-45-minute-carbon-wrapped-Unused-2008-mfg-date-65-5-SCF-/231312000514?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35db450602)
You can pick up a fill rig from a number of suppliers including MAC1, Air Tanks for Sale, and eBay.

Always check the specs and ask all questions before buying anything online, and make sure you can find a local fill before picking up a tank.
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: dman1114 on April 18, 2015, 10:07:16 PM
Hey check this out.....not to bad for someone that wants to get into the sport.... 150$ its got atleast a year maybe 2 left with adapter..
http://www.topgun-airguns.com/SCBA-tank-with-adapter_p_94.html (http://www.topgun-airguns.com/SCBA-tank-with-adapter_p_94.html)
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: dawg11 on April 18, 2015, 11:34:09 PM
I got two used 71 cf  SCBA tanks on ebay for $270 with 5 years left on them . And if you look around online you can find the parts to build the adapters for less than half what the air gun shops are getting . JUST MAKE SURE YOU CHECK THE PRESSURE SPECS !!!!! I went with safety and got 6000 psi rated fittings . My SCBA to SCUBA adapter cost me $54 and 5 mins the tape and assemble . The fill shop wanted $150 for the same thing
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: Swifty on May 23, 2015, 09:36:28 PM
Hey check this out.....not to bad for someone that wants to get into the sport.... 150$ its got atleast a year maybe 2 left with adapter..
http://www.topgun-airguns.com/SCBA-tank-with-adapter_p_94.html (http://www.topgun-airguns.com/SCBA-tank-with-adapter_p_94.html)

I bought one of these and had a great experiance with the company and the gear.  It is my first tank for airguns so I don't have baseline, but still....

Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: William on May 23, 2015, 10:08:55 PM
There are plenty of relatively fresh used tanks out there. By way of example, here's a new 2008 4500psi SCBA for @265 shipped.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Drager-4500psi-SCBA-tank-45-minute-carbon-wrapped-Unused-2008-mfg-date-65-5-SCF-/231312000514?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35db450602 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Drager-4500psi-SCBA-tank-45-minute-carbon-wrapped-Unused-2008-mfg-date-65-5-SCF-/231312000514?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35db450602)
You can pick up a fill rig from a number of suppliers including MAC1, Air Tanks for Sale, and eBay.

Always check the specs and ask all questions before buying anything online, and make sure you can find a local fill before picking up a tank.
I think that is a good buy, they got at least 8 years of use left...  ;D
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: Tommy on May 23, 2015, 10:24:47 PM
If you are gonnastickwith the Disco like Ihave justfind a used scuba tank. It only fills to 3300 psi butwillgiveyou over 80fills. I foundone on ebay for lessthan $100 and you can get a fill apparatus for $70. A metal scuba tank does not loseits life butjust needs tobe hydroed and visual at times Ascuba shopfills mine for $6. If you need moreinfo on tanks and their inspectionslookit up on the DOT website. Ifyou needmore help you can pm me
Tom
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: vigilandy on May 24, 2015, 01:02:27 AM
I'm getting a little tired of the pump.  What is the best economical set up to fill my Discovery?  Where is the best place to get this stuff?  I have a scuba shop about 2 miles away but not sure if that is the way to go or not.  I know I can't afford 700 bucks for a tank for sure.

thanks

First make sure the SCUBA place will fill a tank for you and to what pressure.  You don't want to spend money on equipment you can't use...
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: thumbs on May 24, 2015, 01:43:38 AM
I don't know if it's all  around the country but around here you can't get a scuba tank filled without scuba certification.  In other words you have to have taken and passed the dive classes to be a certified diver.  Maybe not all over but check it out first. 
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: Swifty on May 24, 2015, 04:00:04 AM
Befriend a fire fighter.  Most of those guys are salt of the earth kinds of people.  There is a good chance that if you dropped in not knowing one person in the fire house, and you didn't act like a jerk, they'd hook you up with a fill.  I offered my guy a few bucks for the pizza fund and he wouldn't have it. 

BTW, that link was to a bottle with a fill station and great customer service.  It was priced at 150 when I bought but 175 still sounds very good.

Swifty

Edit: The hydro was 2015 also. 
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: jeff76 on May 24, 2015, 02:55:33 PM
my local firehouse wont give me a fill, because of "liability issues"  that being said im sure I simply didn't ask the right person.   I just went ahead and bought a compressor.  nearest scuba shop is an hour away and wont fill me up past 3300psi. 

3300 psi is more than enough though for filling a disco. and most scuba shops will fill your tank without a diving cert so long as your tank has a "for paintball use only" sticker on it
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: William on May 25, 2015, 12:54:10 AM
I don't know if it's all  around the country but around here you can't get a scuba tank filled without scuba certification.  In other words you have to have taken and passed the dive classes to be a certified diver.  Maybe not all over but check it out first.
Here in Mississippi, they just mark it down as AIR and Not for Diving... not sure of the exact wording! They always ask me if i have a certification, but you only need that if you use the tank for diving. So, check and make sure that if you only used it for AIR and Not Diving they may be able to fill it or they may not no they can do that. Each state probable has its own regulations!

No reason why they cannot fill a tank for you for just compressed air, some carpenters use the small 4500 tanks with regulators to make their trim guns more portable.

William
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: msurf on June 06, 2015, 12:14:06 AM
I got two used 71 cf  SCBA tanks on ebay for $270 with 5 years left on them . And if you look around online you can find the parts to build the adapters for less than half what the air gun shops are getting . JUST MAKE SURE YOU CHECK THE PRESSURE SPECS !!!!! I went with safety and got 6000 psi rated fittings . My SCBA to SCUBA adapter cost me $54 and 5 mins the tape and assemble . The fill shop wanted $150 for the same thing

Dawg11,
  Where did you find the fittings online?  Any links?  Much appreciated if so!
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: tjcib on June 06, 2015, 09:59:35 AM
If you live near a beach community, you may be able to find used tanks on Craig's list. I am about 90 minutes from Virginia beach, and there are always items up. Some from dive shops with hydro included, others from individuals. Right now there is a 120 cuft low pressure tank for $100. For a disco, that still gives you 100+ fills per tank at its max pressure.

There is also a steel 125 cuft...but that baby is probably really heavy!

I bet if you found one that needs a hydro, the seller would meet you at a shop so you could get it then and there.
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: dawg11 on June 07, 2015, 02:16:14 AM


Dawg11,
  Where did you find the fittings online?  Any links?  Much appreciated if so!

I actually went on the air tanks for sale web site and figured out the correct names for the individual parts and searched ebay and google for them found the CGA347 nipple on ebay ( any weld shop will be able to get it it was just cheaper on ebay and a dive shop in flordia had the scuba adapter cheapest
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: scruff75 on June 12, 2015, 01:18:46 PM
I also bought a $150 tank setup from Topgun air but by 5/4/15 the price was up to $175 which isn't bad. SO when I went to checkout I paid for UPS Ground. When I didnt receive an email saying it had shipped I called and was informed it had shipped on the 8th. But was also informed that it was shipped USPS. Will give it to the 18th to arrive. If it doesn't will be getting my money back through PayPal.
 Tank is ok  but gauge doesn't work. Am letting PayPal deal with seller as I am fed up.
 On 6/25 as I was filling tank both female quick disconnect fittings on hose blew making the hose essentially useless. Contacted Paypal about this issue also.
In addition after filing complaint to PayPal website was changed showing new shipping rates.
If anyone has bought a tank from this person I would not stay in the same room where you are filling it!!!!
 
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: sixshootertexan on June 13, 2015, 12:02:35 AM
I'm really considering one of these tanks. It's from the same vendor as in the second post but used. Same manufacture date at half the cost.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Drager-4500psi-SCBA-tank-45-minute-carbon-wrapped-2008-mfg-date-4055698-Draeger-/371107005440?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5667b38400 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Drager-4500psi-SCBA-tank-45-minute-carbon-wrapped-2008-mfg-date-4055698-Draeger-/371107005440?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5667b38400)
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: LDP on June 17, 2015, 01:15:00 AM
If you are just filling the disco then save your money and dont buy a 4500 psi tank you wont need it. Just find a good used scuba tank and use that. You get plenty of fills in a disco and it has no shelf life if you do not damage it unlike carbon fiber tanks.
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: sr1sws on June 17, 2015, 11:17:05 PM
If you are just filling the disco then save your money and dont buy a 4500 psi tank you wont need it. Just find a good used scuba tank and use that. You get plenty of fills in a disco and it has no shelf life if you do not damage it unlike carbon fiber tanks.

I started with a Disco and pump.  Found SCUBA tank on Craigslist for $60 - needed hydro.  SCUBA shop fills it for me $60 for 12 fills.  Thank is marked "not for SCUBA" and they're happy.  I bought a Ninja fill station and fill line off Amazon.

I still use this with my Marauder, which I usually fill to 2200psi.  I also just bought a QB79 + 13ci Ninja tank - also fill to about 2200psi.  This all works well for me, although on occasion I start thinking about setting up a cascade.

Do some research on aluminum SCUBA tanks before you buy.  I forget the specifics, but tanks manufactured before date 'x' were of a different alloy that was/is prone to failure.  SCUBA shops won't fill these - and yes, they can explode.  Find out what the markings mean and check them before you buy.

I'd like to have a high pressure SCUBA tank - these can be filled to 3400psi or there abouts - then I'd fill the Marauder and QB to more like 3000psi.

Anyway, as long as you can get SCUBA filled, it's very serviceable for use with a Disco.

Steve
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: sr1sws on June 17, 2015, 11:31:41 PM
As a PSA, here's one link to info on SLC failures in aluminum tanks.

http://www.luxfercylinders.com/frequently-asked-questions/sustained-load-cracking (http://www.luxfercylinders.com/frequently-asked-questions/sustained-load-cracking)

Quick story - Luxfer tanks made 1989 and after should not be a concern.

Steve
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: fishcrf450r on June 22, 2015, 08:25:21 PM
Will a 45 min scba filled to 4000 psi give more fills than a 80 cuft scuba at 3000 psi ?
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: sixshootertexan on June 23, 2015, 12:44:37 AM
The 45min(66cf) will fill a Disco from 1200-2000 110 times while the 80cf will fill it 100 times. So yes the scba will give you more fills.
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: fishcrf450r on June 23, 2015, 07:37:44 AM
Is that with a 4000 psi fill ?
That is the best fill i can find .
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: sixshootertexan on June 23, 2015, 08:17:28 AM
yes with a 4000psi fill. You would get more fills if you were able to fill the 66cf bottle to 4500.
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: maraudinglizard on June 23, 2015, 08:29:50 AM
If you are just filling the disco then save your money and dont buy a 4500 psi tank you wont need it. Just find a good used scuba tank and use that. You get plenty of fills in a disco and it has no shelf life if you do not damage it unlike carbon fiber tanks.

I started with a Disco and pump.  Found SCUBA tank on Craigslist for $60 - needed hydro.  SCUBA shop fills it for me $60 for 12 fills.  Thank is marked "not for SCUBA" and they're happy.  I bought a Ninja fill station and fill line off Amazon.

I still use this with my Marauder, which I usually fill to 2200psi.  I also just bought a QB79 + 13ci Ninja tank - also fill to about 2200psi.  This all works well for me, although on occasion I start thinking about setting up a cascade.

Do some research on aluminum SCUBA tanks before you buy.  I forget the specifics, but tanks manufactured before date 'x' were of a different alloy that was/is prone to failure.  SCUBA shops won't fill these - and yes, they can explode.  Find out what the markings mean and check them before you buy.

I'd like to have a high pressure SCUBA tank - these can be filled to 3400psi or there abouts - then I'd fill the Marauder and QB to more like 3000psi.

Anyway, as long as you can get SCUBA filled, it's very serviceable for use with a Disco.

Steve

Aluminum scuba tanks manufactured after 1989 are still serviceable. 

http://www.scuba-tutor.com/diving-equipment/tanks/hydro-date.php (http://www.scuba-tutor.com/diving-equipment/tanks/hydro-date.php)
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: sr1sws on June 23, 2015, 08:35:35 AM
If you are just filling the disco then save your money and dont buy a 4500 psi tank you wont need it. Just find a good used scuba tank and use that. You get plenty of fills in a disco and it has no shelf life if you do not damage it unlike carbon fiber tanks.

I started with a Disco and pump.  Found SCUBA tank on Craigslist for $60 - needed hydro.  SCUBA shop fills it for me $60 for 12 fills.  Thank is marked "not for SCUBA" and they're happy.  I bought a Ninja fill station and fill line off Amazon.

I still use this with my Marauder, which I usually fill to 2200psi.  I also just bought a QB79 + 13ci Ninja tank - also fill to about 2200psi.  This all works well for me, although on occasion I start thinking about setting up a cascade.

Do some research on aluminum SCUBA tanks before you buy.  I forget the specifics, but tanks manufactured before date 'x' were of a different alloy that was/is prone to failure.  SCUBA shops won't fill these - and yes, they can explode.  Find out what the markings mean and check them before you buy.

I'd like to have a high pressure SCUBA tank - these can be filled to 3400psi or there abouts - then I'd fill the Marauder and QB to more like 3000psi.

Anyway, as long as you can get SCUBA filled, it's very serviceable for use with a Disco.

Steve

Aluminum scuba tanks manufactured after 1989 are still serviceable. 

http://www.scuba-tutor.com/diving-equipment/tanks/hydro-date.php (http://www.scuba-tutor.com/diving-equipment/tanks/hydro-date.php)

Actually 1989 and later.

As a PSA, here's one link to info on SLC failures in aluminum tanks.

http://www.luxfercylinders.com/frequently-asked-questions/sustained-load-cracking (http://www.luxfercylinders.com/frequently-asked-questions/sustained-load-cracking)

Quick story - Luxfer tanks made 1989 and after should not be a concern.

Steve
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: fishcrf450r on June 23, 2015, 08:46:01 AM
yes with a 4000psi fill. You would get more fills if you were able to fill the 66cf bottle to 4500.

Thank you .
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: scruff75 on June 28, 2015, 02:44:32 PM
Bought tank set up from TopGun airgun on June 4 paid for UPS shipping was sent USPS when I questioned him he changed website to say USPS shipping was standard. Also increased rates. When I received tank set-up and filled not only was the gauge broken but both quick disconnect fitting blew at 3900 when he had told me over phone that all fittings and hose were rated at 5000psi except t fitting which was 10000 psi.
Filed complaint which paypal but while waiting replaced both quick disconnects. Finally got dispute settled in my favor but had to return as I bought it. No way to prove gauge not working when I received tank set-up and would not be reimbursed for my shipping back to the rip-off artist so decided to keep it
 Be advised this person will tell and sell you one thing and ship sub-par parts to you and claim they are up to what you need. Currently am only filling tank to 3000 psi till can replace complete fill assembly.
Again cheap tank set-up ISN'T so CHEAP!!!   >:(
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: pepegraves on July 05, 2015, 06:02:13 PM
Yes, I too am interested in getting a larger fill tank. I just need help with the correct line to attach to the tank to fill my rifle... I'm kinda thick on this subject so, Pictures and product numbers, etc will help tremendously  ;D

The fill line for be for this tank:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Drager-4500psi-SCBA-tank-45-minute-carbon-wrapped-Unused-2008-mfg-date-65-5-SCF/231312000514?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D31729%26meid%3Df72c643d73964435b4e9c1776c44ed5f%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D231289512584&rt=nc (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Drager-4500psi-SCBA-tank-45-minute-carbon-wrapped-Unused-2008-mfg-date-65-5-SCF/231312000514?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D31729%26meid%3Df72c643d73964435b4e9c1776c44ed5f%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D231289512584&rt=nc)
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: fishcrf450r on July 07, 2015, 02:11:15 PM
I just ordered a 30 min interspiro scba with fresh hydro and 5-6 years left and a joe b fill station with male to male foster adaptor .
All for under $300 shipped .
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: fishcrf450r on July 07, 2015, 04:09:34 PM
Ok , i just upped the cost some with a slow flow valve fill station with dual gauges from joe b.
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: fishcrf450r on July 12, 2015, 03:53:45 PM
Ok got my 30 min tank and joe b slow flow valve fill station with micro bore hose .
Got to say that I'm glad that i upped to getting the valve with the fill station built in rather than just the fill assembly .
Not only is it clean and compct , it is very controlled and now i can get it filled at a scuba shop or paint ball shop with the foster fitting or din 300 .
Also i was concerned that the 30 min tank would be too small capacity wise.
But now that i have used it I'm glad that i didn't get the 60 that i wanted .
The 30 is a reasonable size to carry and transport and givving me plenty of fills .
I've got 10-12 fills at 1700psi on my fdpcp manny of them run down to almost empty and still have over 4000 psi left .
As others have said joe b stuff is top notch quality and worth the few extra $$$ .
Pay once be happy for years to come .
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: pepegraves on July 16, 2015, 08:17:19 AM
There are plenty of relatively fresh used tanks out there. By way of example, here's a new 2008 4500psi SCBA for @265 shipped.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Drager-4500psi-SCBA-tank-45-minute-carbon-wrapped-Unused-2008-mfg-date-65-5-SCF-/231312000514?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35db450602 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Drager-4500psi-SCBA-tank-45-minute-carbon-wrapped-Unused-2008-mfg-date-65-5-SCF-/231312000514?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35db450602)
You can pick up a fill rig from a number of suppliers including MAC1, Air Tanks for Sale, and eBay.

Always check the specs and ask all questions before buying anything online, and make sure you can find a local fill before picking up a tank.
I think that is a good buy, they got at least 8 years of use left...  ;D


Yea, I took you guys advice and got a 2008 model 60 min tank...Took it down to Carolina Carbonics in Greensboro yesterday To have it hydro'd and filled... JR and his wife are good people... They're a welding outfit so, I was surrounded by NITROGEN TANKS 8) ....I can see moving towards nitrogen in the future...I just have to get the right adapters for it....But thanks for the ebay tip, it worked out good for me
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: Case Stuffer on July 21, 2015, 10:02:57 PM
Sorry I am not allowed to post external link ( is this a new member restriction?) but you should be able to fill  in the missing

Vendor

air tanks for sale

SCBA Hose assembly



$149 plus $14.50 shipping

Then shop E BAy for a deal on a SCBA  4500 PSI Carbon Fiber tank. Prices run from around $100 to $300 delivered depending on if they 30,45 or 60 min and how many years left on thier 15 year life span and if the Hydro inspection is current or not.

Chart with  cu. ft. capacities for these and other here and a great,  easy to use fill calculator.   For the Discovery use 135 cc for fil capacity.

calc.sikes.us/2/index.php

 


Added: SCBA  as used by Fire Departments are equipted with a regulator which has CGA 347 threads. Your local Fire Station or the closest one which has a fill station  may or may not be willing to fill one for you , some will and some will not.

Non will fill one which is past 15 years old or does   not have a current Hydro Test.

These regulators have a hand  valve, pressure gauge and safety disc                                           
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: fishcrf450r on July 31, 2015, 12:37:36 AM
Got to say that having this tank has not been  economical at all...
Do you know how much it has cost me in pellets to try      to use up $5.25 worth of air.
All kidding  aside,  it's  been great and has me shooting more.
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: Joe Brancato on July 31, 2015, 09:04:17 PM
My only statement will be this.  Carbon fiber tanks are good for 15 years, and only 15 years. I am disappointed that someone would knowingly tell another that a tank that is 14.5 years old, will be good for another 5 years, just because they did a recent hydro.  It ain't so.  Please read DOT special permit 10915 Section 7, paragraph C1. Bottom line, 15 years.

Here is the link to it:
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=dot%20special%20permit%2010915 (https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=dot%20special%20permit%2010915)

You can't get a tank hydro'd on the 14th year 364th day, and get another 5 years out of it, or you'd be getting a 20 year (minus one day) tank.   Even the mods from thsi forum will say the same as I saw them post similar recenlty.   

I just don't want to see a bunch of guys getting steamed up after Jan 2016 when their dates run out. 

Please don't bring up the subject, "They are still good if you have a compressor", etc. Not my intent to discuss nor debate.  I'm talking legally, and for the 95% those of us that will fill at a Firehouse, SCUBA or Paintball Store, they won't fill them after 15 years (unless they just happen to not notice it has expired).

Best to all of you.
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: LDP on August 01, 2015, 07:13:56 PM
My only statement will be this.  Carbon fiber tanks are good for 15 years, and only 15 years. I am disappointed that someone would knowingly tell another that a tank that is 14.5 years old, will be good for another 5 years, just because they did a recent hydro.  It ain't so.  Please read DOT special permit 10915 Section 7, paragraph C1. Bottom line, 15 years.

Here is the link to it:
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=dot%20special%20permit%2010915 (https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=dot%20special%20permit%2010915)

You can't get a tank hydro'd on the 14th year 364th day, and get another 5 years out of it, or you'd be getting a 20 year (minus one day) tank.   Even the mods from thsi forum will say the same as I saw them post similar recenlty.   

I just don't want to see a bunch of guys getting steamed up after Jan 2016 when their dates run out. 

Please don't bring up the subject, "They are still good if you have a compressor", etc. Not my intent to discuss nor debate.  I'm talking legally, and for the 95% those of us that will fill at a Firehouse, SCUBA or Paintball Store, they won't fill them after 15 years (unless they just happen to not notice it has expired).

Best to all of you.
+1
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: Yarp on August 04, 2015, 11:19:44 AM
x2
Despite opinions that HPA regulations are overly conservative, I prefer not to share space with an uninspected, untested, out-of-certification high pressure tank.
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: Case Stuffer on August 04, 2015, 07:43:01 PM
Yes 15 years per  DOT regulation  and then there is this US Navy testing and its' findings.

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=86450.msg888108#msg888108 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=86450.msg888108#msg888108)

Snip
Quote
"Cylinders are also inspected at the appropriate three- or five-year test interval by
SCBA Cylinder Life-Extension Study, Final Report (August 2012) 2-2
certified testers prior to hydrostatic testing. About half of all visual inspection failures observed
are due to wear or damage experienced from exposure to knocks and abrasion during frequent
firefighting drills on Navy ships. The other major category of visual inspection failures consists
of those induced by hydrostatic testing—including cylinder stem thread galling due to improper
removal and reinstallation of the cylinder valve fitting, and to interior cylinder surface contamination
or corrosion caused by improper drying of the cylinders after hydrostatic testing.
Hydrostatic testing of the cylinders is accomplished by removing the valve from the cylinder,
threading on a test connection, filling the cylinder with water, pressurizing the cylinder to fivethirds
(5/3) of service pressure, and measuring cylinder expansion. Based on findings regarding
testing-induced failures and the high hydrostatic testing false-positive rate, it is likely that more
cylinders are damaged by the hydrostatic testing process than by service handling and usage."
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: Zebra on September 14, 2015, 10:16:40 PM
I have been looking at SCBA tanks for use with a Hatsan AT44 and there is a lot of confusing info out there. Not all of it is correct. For example, I read a number of sites that claimed that you need a cga 347 to din 300 adapter to fill a 4500 psi scab tank at a dive shop ( if they could do it at all). This is not always true.

My local dive shop in Westchester NY can fill a 4500 psi scba tank without needing any additional fill adapters so it is worth calling before wasting money on adapters. Some of the carbon fiber tanks sold by air gun stores use the paintball tank valves and these are the ones that can't be filled at many dive shops without another adapter so you need a paintball store.

My local dive shop quoted $45 to get a hydro test for a carbon fiber tank and said it takes 2 weeks as an FYI.

The adapter I would need to buy is one for filling the gun. The Hatsan uses a 1/8" BSPP connector and I haven't found any scba (cga 347) to 1/8" BSPP adapters yet. I have seen a number of scba to "quick connect" or scba to paintball adapters but I can't tell if these fit the foster fittings that you get on the Marauder rifles etc. either way, the adapter cost $80-$170. If have seen cheap 1/8" BSPP to foster adapters ($8).

A used 45 min scba tank with 5 years + left is not cheap by the time it's hydro tested, filled and connected to the gun but it is way cheaper that the $900 being charged for new ones at air gun shops.

I was going to buy a used fire fighter tank when I saw spare cylinders for the Hatsan rifles for $90. My issue with the pump was needing to spend time filling the gun at the range ( it made me feel silly). For the price of a used scba tank, I could buy 4 (or more) hatsan cylinders which would give me close to 150 shots so I could separate pumping and shooting.

I have also read about people using nitrogen tanks to fill their guns. Apparently nitrogen tanks are cheaper than hpa tanks and relatively easy to get filled.

All of the options seem to not so good a bit in their own way...




Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: cpt_sfc on September 24, 2015, 12:33:52 PM
?? please , I called the US wt/measure  office and the NAFTA book people # are on the internet and you can get them from your fed, rep's office. From both office's The us standard is 15 years on HPA tanks, Same tanks in the EU are 30 years. , they could not say why. They have only had one documented fail at a fire dept. when a firefighter left his tank setting in paint solvent for 4 days in back of PU solvent spilled. Carbon fiber tank., then filled it to 4500 and put it in the truck. During that week it failed.  I do not know what would cause a modern tank fail if made of steel or alum. ??? Any thoughts!!!
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: ztirffritz on September 24, 2015, 12:58:35 PM
This was my solution:
http://www.airgunnation.com/topic/ebay-air-tank-project-is-complete/ (http://www.airgunnation.com/topic/ebay-air-tank-project-is-complete/)

Tank: http://www.ebay.com/itm/371107005440?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/371107005440?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
     Last time I checked there were still 280+ tanks available for purchase.
Gauge: http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VKSPNTE?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00 (http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VKSPNTE?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00)
Hose: http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K7Z0CYW?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00 (http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K7Z0CYW?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00)
Fittings: http://airhog.com/A13_Quick_Connect.html (http://airhog.com/A13_Quick_Connect.html)
HiydroTest (by mail if you can find nothing local): http://www.hydrotester.com/index.htm (http://www.hydrotester.com/index.htm)
Mesh Wrap: http://www.mcmaster.com/#4764t6/=y72mdm (http://www.mcmaster.com/#4764t6/=y72mdm)
Handle/Strap: http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000T03WC4?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01 (http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000T03WC4?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01)

Total Cost: $393 for a 65.5cf tank with 7 years remaining on it.  In 7 years buy another used tank for about $100 and get another 5-10 years out of it.  Leave the mesh and straps out of the list above and save about $35.  Find a cheaper hydrotest option and save another $30.

I will say, if you have the money, I recommend buying a complete package from Joe or AirHog as you'll get all new, and tried and true components.  My setup works and I trust it, but I'm the only data point.  Joe has many many more years of experience in this field than just about any of us.  AirHog too has a wealth of knowledge to draw from.
Title: Re: Economical PCP fill tank
Post by: Case Stuffer on September 24, 2015, 06:22:07 PM
?? please , I called the US wt/measure  office and the NAFTA book people # are on the internet and you can get them from your fed, rep's office. From both office's The us standard is 15 years on HPA tanks, Same tanks in the EU are 30 years. , they could not say why. They have only had one documented fail at a fire dept. when a firefighter left his tank setting in paint solvent for 4 days in back of PU solvent spilled. Carbon fiber tank., then filled it to 4500 and put it in the truck. During that week it failed.  I do not know what would cause a modern tank fail if made of steel or alum. ??? Any thoughts!!!

FYI CF tanks are in fact made from alum. and then they are wrapped in cf.. This enables the use of thinner alum. and the cf wrap provides additional strength.


Snip from an offical testing / investion

Quote
The other major category of visual inspection failures consists
of those induced by hydrostatic testing—including cylinder stem thread galling due to improper
removal and reinstallation of the cylinder valve fitting, and to interior cylinder surface contamination
or corrosion caused by improper drying of the cylinders after hydrostatic testing.



Full report

http://www.phmsa.dot.gov/pv_obj_cache/pv_obj_id_DD40218680269DDB4602688C3BFA523D45C70900/filename/FINAL-Report-SCBA_Cylinder_Life_Extension_Study_09202012.pdf (http://www.phmsa.dot.gov/pv_obj_cache/pv_obj_id_DD40218680269DDB4602688C3BFA523D45C70900/filename/FINAL-Report-SCBA_Cylinder_Life_Extension_Study_09202012.pdf)







Quote
SCBA Cylinder Life-Extension Study, Final Report (A
ugust 2012)

The  U.S.  Department  of  Transportation  (DOT)  in  the
Code  of  Federal  Regulation  (CFR)  49,
Section  180.205  mandates  maintenance  requirements  f
or  SCBA  cylinders.  Glass  fiber-reinforced
plastic   (GFRP)   and   carbon   fiber-reinforced   plastic
(CFRP)   SCBA   cylinder   maintenance
requirements  were  established  in  the  early  1990s  ba
sed  on  cylinder  manufacturer  input.  At  that
time,  there  was  extensive  experience  with  aluminum-
alloy  tanks  but  very  little  knowledge  of  the
long-term durability and strength characteristics o
f fiberglass or carbon fiber. A lower limit on the
service life of composite-wrapped cylinders was est
ablished at 15 years based on limited studies on
the  durability  of  fiberglass  observed  in  testing  fo
r  NASA  aerospace  applications.  The  15-year
cylinder  life  is  also  linked  to  cylinder  cycle  test
ing  (fill-and-empty  cycles)  at  the  time  of
manufacture,  when  two  percent  (2%)  of  all  cylinders
  manufactured  are  cycled  10,000  times
(corresponding  to  about  one  cycle  per  working  day  f
or  40  years),  then  subjected  to  a  number  of
strength  tests.  Cylinder  manufacturers  submitted  th
at  this  testing  established  a  threshold  level  of
acceptable  safety  that  can  be  reasonably  expected  o
ver  a  15-year  service  life  (regardless  of  the
working gas).

So test were equal to 40 years of  5 days a week full fills and empties and 2% failed so it was decided that 15 years was a Safe Life Span.

No consideration given to not being used  five  cycles a week or not being completely emptied and refilled each time.


52 wks a year X  5 fill cycles a week X 40 years   equals 10400 cycles  At this point 2% failed after being subjected to  stress testing.
52 wks. per year X5 fill cycles a week for 15 yrs. =3,900  fill cycles.

( How many years would it take you as an air-gunner  to  fill or have  your SCBA type tank filled 3,900 times?   My Guppy gets filled / topped off every week to  ten days , once a week for 3,900 fills equals  75 years !

My 3 month old Guppy cf tank gets filled once  a week to ten days  not 5 times a week and it only gets used down to 2,600 to 3,000 . A partical fill as from 2,500 to 4,500 does not age / wear / stress a cf tank as much as a complete  zero to 4,500 cycles does. Metal fatique in a cf tank is caused mostly  by contraction and expansion.

I have a 15 year old SCOTT SCBA 60 min. 87 cf  cf tank which as pulled from service 10 years ago thus was only used for 5 years and shows hardly any sign of useage. This one has been setting  in my shop for  two months at 4,500 PSI and I expect this one to last longer than I am able to shoot airguns.