GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Weihrauch Airguns => Topic started by: Broadus on April 18, 2015, 01:13:48 AM
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You may have seen my thread in the Air Gun Gate asking to be talked out of ordering a Weihrauch HW30S. I should have known better than ask a bunch of enablers. ;)
At any rate, through that discussion and more research it seems that it is widely held that most mass produced air rifles need, or at least can use, a good tuning in order to avoid any manufacturing issues and enhance the guns' smoothness and longevity. At least that is how I read it.
So that brings me to the HW30S and HW50S. I think the 30 will satisfy what I'm after: an accurate plinker and occasional squirrel gun on a 3/4 acre lot in our subdivision, one that my wife can also use if she likes. I know the 50 will have more power and remove any question about enough power for the squirrel kill.
However, the 30 puts me at the top of what I can justify paying for an air rifle for my needs/desires, and I may can squeeze the 50. However, getting a professional tuning would put them out of the question.
If a tuning is necessary, I would probably talk with Mike Melick about a full tune of an Xisico XS25, perhaps even detuning the power a bit. I would even perhaps talk with Shootist about the RWS 34P he has for sale in the classifieds, but I'd rather not have a synthetic stock.
So what about tuning the 30S and 50S? I remember some saying that a tuning of their 50S made all the difference in that gun.
Oh . . . and what about the galling issues with the 30S. I've read that Weihrauch has incorporated a fix in the newest 50S's, but I cannot find out anything about the 30S.
Any thoughts?
Thanks.
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Even the most expensive springers can benefit from a tune. That said, it isn't always "necessary"...
For example: I have 2 HW97k's. The first one I purchased in .177 and out of the box it shoots well with no noticeable spring twang or excessive vibration. Unfortunately I wasn't so lucky with the new .22 HW97K. It makes a substantial (irritating) spring twang and produces some felt vibration as well... This one won't be getting shot anymore until I get it tuned (it's going to Motorhead!)
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Both of my HW30s are as smooth as my Walther LGV .22 so imo don't need tunes out of the box. As far as galling my last one took about a tin of pellets to wear in. Are you going with the standard or deluxe ?
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Both of my HW30s are as smooth as my Walther LGV .22 so imo don't need tunes out of the box. As far as galling my last one took about a tin of pellets to wear in. Are you going with the standard or deluxe ?
I'm thinking about standard. The only difference is cosmetic, right? Admittedly, the deluxe is a pretty nice cosmetic upgrade.
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It's subjective but the deluxe feels and handles better for me, and it's nice to have checkering for a better grip.
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Needed? NO. Would the rifle benefit from some simple (DIY) clean up and lube? You bet! I wouldn't worry about a "tune" for your 30 right away. Shoot it and enjoy it. If an issue arises OR you get the tinker bug, then you can open it up and "tune" it. Usually just a simple clean up, deburr, relube will make a positive difference in how the rifle feels while using it but but it shouldn't be needed, just desired and not necessary.
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Really for the price we pay for these weihrauchs they should shoot smooth out of the box. My 2 didn't. Had them both tuned now life is good. I feel sorry for the guys who spend almost a grand on that new fwb and then those need a tune . For that price that gun should come with a new widescreen tv or i- pad......somethng
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I want to see how the unit works, and I live by the if it ain't broke don't fix it program. You can always get it tuned if needed. Through my stupidity I had a spring break in my 30 and installed a JM tune up kit.
My 50 purchased earlier is shooting great and it's untouched.
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Buy it and shoot it, don't worry about tuning.
The rifle will probably get slicker the more that you shoot it, most do.
You'll be perfectly happy with your rifle assuming that it will group reasonably.
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Some guys seem almost infatuated with "tunes," whatever they may be, so much so that they have them shipped directly to an airgunsmith without having fired or even laid eyes on them. A tune can make a springer better. Should it be de rigueur? No. You should shoot the air rifle at least until it has had a good chance to break in. Both the HW30S and the 50S are fairly light shooting rifles. I would give either of them a long chance to show me how well they work as they come from the factory before I thought about tuning. I have had a number of HW's that performed admirably right out of the box.
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A tune can be for two reasons.
1. It's needed
2. It's wanted
I agree that you should spend some time shooting it with a tin or two of pellets. And get through your 30 day return phase. Once done with those, if you feel like it's way to loud, or torquey or twangy, and if you have the $$ to fund a tune, go for it. In the end, it may not need anything.
If you feel it needs a tune, you just want to tinker or you require the utmost out of your rig, then you have the option to do it yourself with one of the available drop in kits (another topic) or send it out to one of the pros here and get the works. Obviously one is more affordable than the other, but it's going to depend on your level of comfort working on your rifle.
This isn't a question just about Wehreichs, but all airguns. Each is individual in it's build quality. Sometimes you get a Tuesday gun, sometimes you get a Friday gun.
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I recently had to replace the spring in a 4month old R9. I was happy with how the gun shot from the factory - a little buzzy twang, but it was accurate! However, after putting the pg2 kit in, it is far, far better. A little less hold sensitive, maybe, but the smoothness of the shot cycle is incomparable. If I had known how much better it could be - how much more enjoyable to shoot - I would have done a PG2 kit off the bat.
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ALL guns, air or powder benefit from a tune. Some issues you can feel or hear, some you can't. ALL guns that have stamped metal parts benefit the most. I've tuned many brand new guns and it's surprising the issues I have found. The one that gets me the most is cut piston seals. At the factory I don't know if they are on piece work or what, but it seems they just ram the piston into the compression tube, cutting, scraping, or chaffing the piston seal on the way without de-burring anything first. Also they are quite dry of any lube. You may find a little, but in dire need of more. I've tuned a number of R9's which each customer has said they didn't think I could do much because they were so nice to begin with. When they got them back they were in shock with the difference the tune made. Much smoother, quieter, easier cocking cycle and just a much nicer gun to shoot. With that said, you can imagine the difference it makes to a Gamo. Did a Gamo Hornet last fall. The owner said the last time I talked with him he was shooting a ragged one hole at 43 yards. Don't know as I would want to shoot against him at a rifle range!!! That's some awesome shooting!!! Next he was going to his Dad's farm to stretch it out some more!! Even just a lube tune helps, but a total tune is best. ARH has some wonderful piston seals and springs that really enhance the gun's performance. Doesn't make the gun shoot faster and most of the time a bit slower but usually a lot more accurate. Usually once someone has shot a tuned gun, they have a totally different opinion of a tune. Happy shooting and ALWAYS remember and practice the 10 commandments of shooting - Lee
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Great post, Lee. Touched all points, and summed them up nicely.
-Paul
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Bill
Back to your original question, I think if you took a poll, you would find fewer people found a tune necessary for their 30S than did for the 50S. That has been my experience personally and I own both. Just sayin. ;D
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Bill
Back to your original question, I think if you took a poll, you would find fewer people found a tune necessary for their 30S than did for the 50S. That has been my experience personally and I own both. Just sayin. ;D
Thanks, Dan. That's what my search of posts seems to indicate.
Plus, being new to springers, I suspect the smart thing is to get the 30S first, learn to shoot it well, and then move up if I want something with more power. I don't know how hold sensitive a 50S is, but it seems a 30S has to be less so. And I know my wife could handle it well, though I would be surprised (though pleasantly so) if she cared that much about it.
Then again, the 50S seems like a great all-round air gun.
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They both will shoot in with a couple of thousand pellets. No rifle must be tuned it's all in what you want. If you love a rifle and plan on passing it down and keeping it forever then you may consider a full tune. Tossing in a kit and lube is not a full tune. A full tune is so much more so no is my answer. This comes from a guy that has a few tuned springers.😜
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The difference between my original un-tuned HW50S and Diana 34 and my Shootist tuned HW50S and Diana 234 was/is the difference between day and night in all regards.
That's all I have to say about that.
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This is easy.
Pay up for HW quality and get the hw30 or hw50.
Shoot away with confidence that the factory spec gun will perform just fine.
Save a bit and invest in either a tune kit or pro tune later if you prefer.
Good luck choosing.
R
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Just buy the HW30S and a boatload of JSB RS 7.33 grain pellets and never look back. HWs don't need a tune. The 30 will shoot great from day one. Other HW's just need to be shot 1500+ times and they are as good as they get. No fear, no tunes, just buy the 30 and enjoy.
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Accuracy wise, either rifle will most likely satisfy you out of the box. There is a possibility there will be some spring twang. I don't think it is a problem other than being annoying to some. I was pleasantly surprised with accuracy in both my HW30s and HW50s. Me being a tinkerer ::) I had to do a home lube tune and deburr the internals to get rid of the twang.
If you think your wife will be shooting it much, keep in mind the cocking effort is much easier with the HW30s. Some ladies may not have a problem with the HW50, but it is noticeably harder cocking. The HW50s would be a better fit for hunting squirrels, IMO.
It is subjective, but to me, the 50s has a more pleasing recoil and more authoratative smack on the target. The 30s seems a little anemic after shooting the 50s. It's all in what you are looking for. They are both great springers. Just my $.02
Best of luck with your decision.
Added comment: I forgot to mention, when lube tuning my HW30s, I added a delrin strip in the cocking linkage to prevent it galling the compression tube. Air Rifle Headquarters sells a strip of material for this purpose, but I was able to make my own. The new HW50 does indeed, have a strip added already.
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They both will shoot in with a couple of thousand pellets. No rifle must be tuned it's all in what you want. If you love a rifle and plan on passing it down and keeping it forever then you may consider a full tune. Tossing in a kit and lube is not a full tune. A full tune is so much more so no is my answer. This comes from a guy that has a few tuned springers.😜
James, that's one heckuva list you've got there!! Nicely done.
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Here's some perspective:
Countless HW springers were shot by satisfied owners for many years. The internet comes along it brings together some fanatics--yes, like me--who shoot WAY MORE than the average owner. Some of us fanatics dislike the twang that has been inherent in spring-piston air rifles since they were invented, and consider such firing behavior to be a fault. Other fanatics, like me, are not bothered by spring twang as long as the gun is accurate and fun to shoot. Yes, I'm blaming the internet forums for causing so many to believe a tune is necessary for expensive air rifles right out of the box.
Having said all that, I have owned tuned guns and they can have a nicer firing behavior. They were not more accurate, but they did FEEL nicer to shoot. I'm not anti-tuning, and I may get guns tuned in the future; I'm just saying it's a matter of want vs need.
To me me it's not an issue of "should" an HW30/HW50 get a tune; it's more a question of whether you want to spend several hundred dollars for a smoother-shooting gun. And it has been my experience that after a few thousand shots a new gun will smooth out anyway. I have owned both these guns and they both smoothed out a lot. I later sold the HW50s because the cocking effort was heavier than I wanted to deal with, but that's another discussion.
I will now step down from my soap box.
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Here's some perspective:
Countless HW springers were shot by satisfied owners for many years. The internet comes along it brings together some fanatics--yes, like me--who shoot WAY MORE than the average owner. Some of us fanatics dislike the twang that has been inherent in spring-piston air rifles since they were invented, and consider such firing behavior to be a fault. Other fanatics, like me, are not bothered by spring twang as long as the gun is accurate and fun to shoot. Yes, I'm blaming the internet forums for causing so many to believe a tune is necessary for expensive air rifles right out of the box.
Having said all that, I have owned tuned guns and they can have a nicer firing behavior. They were not more accurate, but they did FEEL nicer to shoot. I'm not anti-tuning, and I may get guns tuned in the future; I'm just saying it's a matter of want vs need.
To me me it's not an issue of "should" an HW30/HW50 get a tune; it's more a question of whether you want to spend several hundred dollars for a smoother-shooting gun. And it has been my experience that after a few thousand shots a new gun will smooth out anyway. I have owned both these guns and they both smoothed out a lot. I later sold the HW50s because the cocking effort was heavier than I wanted to deal with, but that's another discussion.
I will now step down from my soap box.
Very well put. These are some of the most thoughtful words on the subject. Bravo!
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I usually don't weigh in with my opinion about "should I or shouldn't I" , as there are people more experienced- and better shooters-than me. I have a 30s with about 2800 rounds thru it. I don't have a car, so the only bench shooting I can do is @ 21ft in my apartment, and that proves nothing. For about the last six months I've loaded up my bicycle with rifle, ammo and a camera tripod with 2in. of high density foam rubber-banded to it and rest the forearm if the 30 s on it. The vast majority of 5 shot groups hovered around .75 in @ 30 yds. The only thing I've done to the rifle is mount a Leapers 4-16x44 scope and adjust the trigger. Yesterday I went out to shoot and took along a bipod with the idea I could simulate bench shooting with a tripod under the forearm and the bipod under the stock right behind the trigger guard. Took about 15 min to get set up. I take most accuracy claims with a grain of salt, even ones with photos. So this a tribute to the un-tuned 30s, not the shooter : ten, 5 shot groups averaged . 46 in c-t-c @ 30 yds., measured with a ruler and a micrometer. No doubt others can do better, but I was pleased. This is only my second springer, the first being a Chinese gun tuned by a well know tuner. It may have shot better tuned, I had nothing to compare it with and believed all the accolades the tuner received. Turns out it was still a $160 Chinese air rifle. I agree with what was said prior about the internet and tunes and tuners. The only air rifle I 'll ever buy again will be German, and probably a Weihrauch - next month. I can't decide between a 50 s and an R 9.
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Very helpful perspective, Randy. Thanks.
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I usually don't weigh in with my opinion about "should I or shouldn't I" , as there are people more experienced- and better shooters-than me. I have a 30s with about 2800 rounds thru it. I don't have a car, so the only bench shooting I can do is @ 21ft in my apartment, and that proves nothing. For about the last six months I've loaded up my bicycle with rifle, ammo and a camera tripod with 2in. of high density foam rubber-banded to it and rest the forearm if the 30 s on it. The vast majority of 5 shot groups hovered around .75 in @ 30 yds. The only thing I've done to the rifle is mount a Leapers 4-16x44 scope and adjust the trigger. Yesterday I went out to shoot and took along a bipod with the idea I could simulate bench shooting with a tripod under the forearm and the bipod under the stock right behind the trigger guard. Took about 15 min to get set up. I take most accuracy claims with a grain of salt, even ones with photos. So this a tribute to the un-tuned 30s, not the shooter : ten, 5 shot groups averaged . 46 in c-t-c @ 30 yds., measured with a ruler and a micrometer. No doubt others can do better, but I was pleased. This is only my second springer, the first being a Chinese gun tuned by a well know tuner. It may have shot better tuned, I had nothing to compare it with and believed all the accolades the tuner received. Turns out it was still a $160 Chinese air rifle. I agree with what was said prior about the internet and tunes and tuners. The only air rifle I 'll ever buy again will be German, and probably a Weihrauch - next month. I can't decide between a 50 s and an R 9.
I have both and I highly recommend the R9.
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AoA has the Weihrauch HW95 Luxus for $449 and free shipping.
(http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/Weihrauch/HW95L.png)
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As far as pellet guns used to be shot without tunes until the internet. We also used to drive on leaded gas. Also used to drive on bias belted tires until steel belts. Used to get mail by pony express. Sewage used to run in the streets. Used to be we all watched black & white televisions. There was a time we didn't have a phone hanging out of our ears as we backed out the driveway. Used to read by kerosene lamps not that long ago. To have cars that were any color we wanted, as long as it was black. Used to fish with a spear or just a line wrapped around a pole. Do we want to go back to some of these things?? I think not, no more than I'd want to shoot any kind of an un-tuned gun, air or powder. I'm also willing to bet money that people who have never shot a tuned gun would change their mind about tuning ANY gun, air or powder after shooting a tuned gun. Actually the first tuned gun I shot was a .44 black powder pistol. It was an unbelievable experience!! I had one that wasn't so I could compare apples to apples right on the spot!!! ALL of my guns, air & powder have had some kind of loving with a stone or wet/dry 600 grit paper. Would I want to go back, NO THANKS!!!! I'm a much better shot due to these advances which makes my hunting more humane. Who among us WANTS to just injure an animal?? Who doesn't want to take out the 10 ring?? Who wants to drive a car with 100,000 miles on a tune-up instead of a fresh tune-up?? Who among us that have installed a CDT trigger want to put the OEM trigger back in?? TRY IT, YOU'LL LIKE IT!!!! Lee
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As far as pellet guns used to be shot without tunes until the internet. We also used to drive on leaded gas. Also used to drive on bias belted tires until steel belts. Used to get mail by pony express. Sewage used to run in the streets. Used to be we all watched black & white televisions. There was a time we didn't have a phone hanging out of our ears as we backed out the driveway. Used to read by kerosene lamps not that long ago. To have cars that were any color we wanted, as long as it was black. Used to fish with a spear or just a line wrapped around a pole. Do we want to go back to some of these things?? I think not, no more than I'd want to shoot any kind of an un-tuned gun, air or powder. I'm also willing to bet money that people who have never shot a tuned gun would change their mind about tuning ANY gun, air or powder after shooting a tuned gun. Actually the first tuned gun I shot was a .44 black powder pistol. It was an unbelievable experience!! I had one that wasn't so I could compare apples to apples right on the spot!!! ALL of my guns, air & powder have had some kind of loving with a stone or wet/dry 600 grit paper. Would I want to go back, NO THANKS!!!! I'm a much better shot due to these advances which makes my hunting more humane. Who among us WANTS to just injure an animal?? Who doesn't want to take out the 10 ring?? Who wants to drive a car with 100,000 miles on a tune-up instead of a fresh tune-up?? Who among us that have installed a CDT trigger want to put the OEM trigger back in?? TRY IT, YOU'LL LIKE IT!!!! Lee
With that in mind, Lee, and budget constraints being what they are, if $350 or so is the most you can put into an air rifle, do you get the better gun without a tune or do you buy a lesser gun with a good tune? Or would you suggest getting the better rifle now and then get it tuned down the road?
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I'm also willing to bet money that people who have never shot a tuned gun would change their mind about tuning ANY gun, air or powder after shooting a tuned gun. Actually the first tuned gun I shot was a .44 black powder pistol. It was an unbelievable experience!! I had one that wasn't so I could compare apples to apples right on the spot!!! ALL of my guns, air & powder have had some kind of loving with a stone or wet/dry 600 grit paper. Would I want to go back, NO THANKS!!!! I'm a much better shot due to these advances which makes my
When you refer to a "tuned" gun, just what do you mean? I understand what a tuned air rifle is. I have both stock and tuned air rifles that shoot superbly. I think you'd lose the money you are willing to bet. As far as "tuning" a PB rifle, does using a stone or wet/dry 600 grit paper on it mean that it's been "tuned"?
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I would call it "Enhanced Performance". Anything that helps, not always a full blown tune, but things that make it better. A CDT trigger I wouldn't call a tune, but it sure makes the gun shoot better. As the gun shoots better, we get better results on the target. THAT'S what I'm after, accuracy. Not speed, just accuracy. That's why I shoot. Not to make noise, waste ammo or powder. To me, a finely operating gun in my hands is like a work of art. My first air gun was a Daisy. What a piece of junk, by today's standards, but to me was the most beautiful gun in the world. Wish I still had it. Don't even remember if it even shot!!!!HAHA!!! But I loved it. Today, it's all about performance. If I can help it, I will. Sometimes money gets in the way and I have to wait. If only I was rich instead of handsome!! Yeah right!!! I guess it all comes down to, if you could get better gas mileage by some tuning trick, wouldn't you at least try?? I would in a second!! One just to help the engine to get more miles out of it and the other to save money!! Lee
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I liken a springer tune to "Green Eggs and Ham". Sure, you don't HAVE to try them, but once you do, I think you'll like it! ;D
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:D As far as tuned vs untuned AG's tuned is always going to perform better I own several at home that I tuned myself and have shot a couple that were Pro tuned . If you want out of the box decent accuracy and performance go for the high end springer then shoot it till your fingers bleed and when the spring fails tune it or have it pro tuned my home tune good, Pro tune better by several magnitudes they have the skills and tools to tweak the trigger that I as an amature tuner don't have
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With that in mind, Lee, and budget constraints being what they are, if $350 or so is the most you can put into an air rifle, do you get the better gun without a tune or do you buy a lesser gun with a good tune? Or would you suggest getting the better rifle now and then get it tuned down the road?
I'm not Lee, but my thought would be get the best you can afford now. It will always be there for a tune down the road, and you may find you are happy with it out of the box. If you buy a lesser gun, it will always be just that, even though a tune may make it better.
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With that in mind, Lee, and budget constraints being what they are, if $350 or so is the most you can put into an air rifle, do you get the better gun without a tune or do you buy a lesser gun with a good tune? Or would you suggest getting the better rifle now and then get it tuned down the road?
I'm not Lee, but my thought would be get the best you can afford now. It will always be there for a tune down the road, and you may find you are happy with it out of the box. If you buy a lesser gun, it will always be just that, even though a tune may make it better.
Thanks, Tom. That's what I intend to do.
Now I just have to decide on the 30S or the 50S. I've almost concluded that the 30S will do what I need and will be what I will want to shoot the most down the road.
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With that in mind, Lee, and budget constraints being what they are, if $350 or so is the most you can put into an air rifle, do you get the better gun without a tune or do you buy a lesser gun with a good tune? Or would you suggest getting the better rifle now and then get it tuned down the road?
I'm not Lee, but my thought would be get the best you can afford now. It will always be there for a tune down the road, and you may find you are happy with it out of the box. If you buy a lesser gun, it will always be just that, even though a tune may make it better.
Thanks, Tom. That's what I intend to do.
Now I just have to decide on the 30S or the 50S. I've almost concluded that the 30S will do what I need and will be what I will want to shoot the most down the road.
Of course, I don't know what your preferences are, but personally, I really like the 50s over the 30s. The 30s is so easy to cock and mild shooting, but it definitely has less power than the 50s. You have to decide which is best for you and your intended use. Either one will be very accurate if they are anything like mine. The 50s already has the galling problem addressed, not sure about the 30s. The weight difference between the two is hardly noticeable.
Good luck with your decision. I hope you will be satisfied with whichever you choose. They are both great air rifles, IMO. You can look at the pages on "Straight Shooters" website and see the velocities for each listed in the "our take" tab for each rifle. Good information there!
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Of course, I don't know what your preferences are, but personally, I really like the 50s over the 30s. The 30s is so easy to cock and mild shooting, but it definitely has less power than the 50s. You have to decide which is best for you and your intended use. Either one will be very accurate if they are anything like mine. The 50s already has the galling problem addressed, not sure about the 30s. The weight difference between the two is hardly noticeable.
Good luck with your decision. I hope you will be satisfied with whichever you choose. They are both great air rifles, IMO. You can look at the pages on "Straight Shooters" website and see the velocities for each listed in the "our take" tab for each rifle. Good information there!
How much more stout is the cocking of the 50S than the 30S, Tom? I was leaning 30S because folks talk about how enjoyable it is to shoot. Plus, I am hoping to get my wife involved and thinking that the 30S cocking would be more manageable to her.
Frankly, I had considered the 50S as better for an "only airgun."
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Bill
I'm not Tom, but to answer your question about "how much more stout is the cocking of the 50S than the 30S", the 50S is approx. twice as "stout" as the 30S in factory stock trim. The 30S would definitely be more manageable for her. Of course if the 50S should get a full tune, then the difference in cocking effort will not be as much as in stock trim .
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Of course, I don't know what your preferences are, but personally, I really like the 50s over the 30s. The 30s is so easy to cock and mild shooting, but it definitely has less power than the 50s. You have to decide which is best for you and your intended use. Either one will be very accurate if they are anything like mine. The 50s already has the galling problem addressed, not sure about the 30s. The weight difference between the two is hardly noticeable.
Good luck with your decision. I hope you will be satisfied with whichever you choose. They are both great air rifles, IMO. You can look at the pages on "Straight Shooters" website and see the velocities for each listed in the "our take" tab for each rifle. Good information there!
How much more stout is the cocking of the 50S than the 30S, Tom? I was leaning 30S because folks talk about how enjoyable it is to shoot. Plus, I am hoping to get my wife involved and thinking that the 30S cocking would be more manageable to her.
Frankly, I had considered the 50S as better for an "only airgun."
You have the right idea about them. Dan, aka Yak54, gave the best answer I could think of. He is spot on with his accessment. If the wife is not very stout, the 30 would be a better choice. My only hesitation with it was, I am not sure how suitable it would be for plinking squirrels, as you had mentioned. If you keep the range short and go for head shots, it may be fine. It definitely is accurate and nice to shoot. Nice light, easy to handle package!
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Well, the squirrel problem is only an occasional thing, so I'm sure the 30S would be fine. If the cocking were the advertised 24 lbs. for the 50S, I would go with it for sure.
I suspect that a full tune for the 50S, including shipping both ways, would be at least $150--nothing but a guess on my part. Were it not for being concerned about my wife's being about to handle the cocking as is, I'm sure I would go ahead and order the 50S.
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Well, the squirrel problem is only an occasional thing, so I'm sure the 30S would be fine. If the cocking were the advertised 24 lbs. for the 50S, I would go with it for sure.
I suspect that a full tune for the 50S, including shipping both ways, would be at least $150--nothing but a guess on my part. Were it not for being concerned about my wife's being about to handle the cocking as is, I'm sure I would go ahead and order the 50S.
Many people have complained that the 50s is more difficult to cock than the advertised 24lbs. Others say it's no problem. I'm 62 and in relatively good shape and I thought it was too much to deal with in a long shooting session.
I suggest you do a search regarding the cocking effort of the current HW50s. It's been pretty widely discussed.
Can you find a full tune for $150?
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Many people have complained that the 50s is more difficult to cock than the advertised 24lbs. Others say it's no problem. I'm 62 and in relatively good shape and I thought it was too much to deal with in a long shooting session.
I suggest you do a search regarding the cocking effort of the current HW50s. It's been pretty widely discussed.
Can you find a full tune for $150?
I think I've read almost every thread that speaks of the HW50S, especially those pertaining to the cocking effort. I guess that is what gives me pause about ordering the 50S. I thing the smart thing would be to order the 30S now and, if I need more power down the road, order perhaps the HW-95 and have it detuned or maybe even go for a 50S.
The $150 was a guess just going on a couple of things I read. And, too, I'm sure that "full tune" means different things to different tuners.
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Many people have complained that the 50s is more difficult to cock than the advertised 24lbs. Others say it's no problem. I'm 62 and in relatively good shape and I thought it was too much to deal with in a long shooting session.
I suggest you do a search regarding the cocking effort of the current HW50s. It's been pretty widely discussed.
Can you find a full tune for $150?
I think I've read almost every thread that speaks of the HW50S, especially those pertaining to the cocking effort. I guess that is what gives me pause about ordering the 50S. I thing the smart thing would be to order the 30S now and, if I need more power down the road, order perhaps the HW-95 and have it detuned or maybe even go for a 50S.
The $150 was a guess just going on a couple of things I read. And, too, I'm sure that "full tune" means different things to different tuners.
I think your reasoning is sound about getting the 30S now, and if you need or want more power down the road go for a 50S, R9, or HW95.
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Cocking effort on the 50s can be lessened via a SS muzzle brake and a JM kit.
I initially used a Vortek and found it to be harder to cock and more snappy than the JM....
just a note---- Having had four shoulder surgeries (2 ea L & R ) I can tell you without a doubt the JM kit is much easier to cock.....
One thing may be too Contact Tom at Vortek and have him make you an older style kit , Minus that sleeve over the spring.
JMTCW.
Happy Shootin To All!
Petey
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I'm 78 and shot 70 pellets with 50s this morning, no problems. I do have a muzzle brake on gun.
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I'm 78 and shot 70 pellets with 50s this morning, no problems. I do have a muzzle brake on gun.
That's good to hear, Brad. I'm glad for you. I'm still concerned about my wife handling it. If I can stay on this line of thinking till AoA opens in the morning, I'll probably go ahead with the 30S and then hopefully pick up a 50S later if a good used one comes along and I feel the need for a bit more power.
I appreciate your input in all this.
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;D I think you will be happy with either rifle. Weirauch/Beeman are the apex springers fit finish and quality inside and out. I have nothing but praise for the RX2 that I have since December . I cannot see the HW 30S or 50S being any less well made good luck with whichever rifle you decide to purchase and don't forget to post some pictures
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Thanks, Don. You're right--quality between the two is not an issue. I'll be sure to post what we get as well as the requisite photos.
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If wife involvement is definitely in the picture on use, get the 30 for sure for the "happy life" scenario. ;)
That's the only one my wife likes to shoot because it is "self sufficient" for her. (And sports the better optics)
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I'm still concerned about my wife handling it. If I can stay on this line of thinking till AoA opens in the morning, I'll probably go ahead with the 30S and then hopefully pick up a 50S later if a good used one comes along and I feel the need for a bit more power.
I also think your wife would be much happier with the 30, there is no doubt that the 50 is more work and just might not be as much fun.
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Well, I just got off the phone with Airguns of Arizona, asking about the 30S and the 50S, and they checked on their stock and have both the .177 and .22 HW50S in stock but only the .22 HW30S in stock. I asked how long before they anticipated getting in the .177 30S and was told it would be several weeks.
I like the idea of ordering from AoA because of the price ($299 w/free shipping) and they check out and test fire the gun. Pyramid is higher and they charge extra to test fire.
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PA lists the HW30S at $329, with coupon code PYRAMYD-NRA its $297. Plus you can get 1% back via the bullseye bucks, if you do those.
Personally I wouldn't bother with the 10 for $10 deal, because springers need some attention before the chrony numbers mean anything. I would get it for a pcp, to check for leaks, but the value of that service is pretty marginal on a high quality springer.
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PA lists the HW30S at $329, with coupon code PYRAMYD-NRA its $297. Plus you can get 1% back via the bullseye bucks, if you do those.
Personally I wouldn't bother with the 10 for $10 deal, because springers need some attention before the chrony numbers mean anything. I would get it for a pcp, to check for leaks, but the value of that service is pretty marginal on a high quality springer.
I had applied the 10% discount, but then shipping puts it at $313.69. That's why I said it is a little higher at PA. Obviously, it's not that big a difference.
I agree about the 10 for $10 deal. AoA does something similar for free. I definitely wouldn't pay for it on a good springer.
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I may have another option for you, Bill. I have an HW50 in .177 that's just a few years old that has the full stock checkering. I got it from a member here at the GTA a year or so ago and he chopped 1 coil off the spring and made it a custom rear guide and tophat. He did some file work to keep the cocking arm from rubbing too. I later relubed it with Krytox, a lube that can't combust and added a Vortek piston seal. I also removed the chisel detent and polished both it and the hole it goes into and relubed it. All of these things have detuned the rifle a bit, but made the rifle very smooth to cock and gives it a lower cocking effort than a factory one. Its the one in the middle of the picture. The others are an R7 and R9 for comparison. I'll send you a PM about it.
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d103/markweidert/26df9543-ea3c-4a73-b507-412ed3947357_zpsy6ktppa5.jpg)
Mark
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Hey Mark. I'll PM you.
BTW, are you trying to mess with my mind with the upside down photo. ;)
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I apologize for the upside down picture. Photobucket isn't cooperating with me. I see it also looks a bit distorted. This must mean its a trick gun you can shoot accurately while standing on your head, using a mirror too! ;D
*edit
It looks like its fixed now...I hope so at least!
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I have a $620.00 HW95, $400.00 from AOA, $220.00 shipped fully tuned by John In PA. No regrets.
The option you will always have is you can shoot it for years before deciding to tune it. Just get the gun that fits your tastes and decide later.
I chose the HW95 because its not too long and heavy, not too powerful or underpowered or hold sensitive. The HW95/Beeman R9 platform is famous for its versatility and accuracy.
I shot a few tins before sending it in and it twanged like a banjo. I already had fully tuned a BAM B26 so I was basically spoiled.
The trigger guard and forearm screws loosened once during the first tin.
We are supposed to follow through during a shot cycle by maintaining the hold throughout the cycle ( I stay in the scope all the way to the target). After the tune this was much more of a doable and pleasurable experience and with the banjo twang gone its effortless in comparison. I would say it helped "Me" shoot more accurately, not the gun.
He does a lot in his tunes for the money he charges. The turn around is a month or so.
He does more than just tar and install an after market spring and seal. If fitting is needed he does it.
From Memory He:
Installs an after market spring, piston, and breech seal. (A pre-tune discussion with him is required to get what fits your needs)
Cleans up any factory burs or edges as needed.
Buttons the piston
Cups all the screws
Polishes the bore
Goes through the trigger group
Test fires lots of pellets and lets it sit over night to let the warmed up piston seal form a couple times and fires different pellets or the one of your choosing.
Provides as shipped chrony data
The above is all I can remember.
I say, if you have the mean, definitely tune it.