GTA
Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 and springers ,rams => Optics, Range estimation & related subjects => Topic started by: Regulatori on March 30, 2015, 04:51:47 AM
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My gun is .177 target rifle shooting around 550fps...in the future I will be adding a new spring bringing it up to 650-675fps (8g).
The absolute longest I would be shooting is 50yds and the closest would be 10yds.
This would be a paper puncher/occasional plinker...but all of the shooting will be done using a rest. If I do any prone/standing shooting, I'm switching over to diopter sights.
I've always enjoyed the simplicity of a fixed power scopes and you can get some really good glass while spending half the amount as you would with a variable.
I was thinking a fixed 16x may be too powerful....I feel a majority of my shooting will be 10yds-30yds and the occasional 50yds at the range after I get the new spring.
If given a choice of fixed powers between 10x, 12x, and 16x, which would you pick for my ranges? I'm leaning towards a 10x or possibly 12x
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My gun is .177 target rifle shooting around 550fps...in the future I will be adding a new spring bringing it up to 650-675fps (8g).
I've always enjoyed the simplicity of a fixed power scopes and you can get some really good glass while spending half the amount as you would with a variable.
It's true, you can get really nice glass in a fixed power scope for less than a nicely glassed variable. But even those fixed power scopes are not inexpensive. See, for example, this 10X Sightron scope http://www.arcadian-sales.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=AS/PROD/Sightron_SIII/SIII10x42MMD_25143 (http://www.arcadian-sales.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=AS/PROD/Sightron_SIII/SIII10x42MMD_25143) or this 6X Sightron http://www.arcadian-sales.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=AS/PROD/Sightron_SII_Big_Sky/SIIB6X42_63027 (http://www.arcadian-sales.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=AS/PROD/Sightron_SII_Big_Sky/SIIB6X42_63027) or this 12X Sightron http://www.arcadian-sales.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=AS/PROD/Sightron_SII_Big_Sky/SIIB1242D_63029 (http://www.arcadian-sales.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=AS/PROD/Sightron_SII_Big_Sky/SIIB1242D_63029)
Of course, there are other scopes, many perhaps more suitable for a BS4 like yours. How much are you looking to spend on a scope?
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I was looking at the SWFA line of Super Snipers. I've been following these scopes since their intro (10+ years ago) and they've developed a huge following from even the more pickier scope owners (aka...I won't look at a scope unless it's Leupold, Nightforce, US Optics, Sightron, Schmidt and Bender...etc..) If you go on the big optics forums full of people spending $2000-4000 on glass, you'll still find almost unanimous praise towards the SWFA fixed power scopes.
They were originally a Navy contract scope built in Japan that SWFA scooped up/bought the rights to sell.
The glass sharpness/contrast, durability, consistency of adjustments, is all unheard of in a scope in this price range. I used to have a Leupold Mark 4 on my 1000yd match rifle and remember how even the 10x on my rifle gave a clearer/brighter target at further distances than other shooters using cheaper 16x scopes. My target was smaller with a 10X but the white was a bright white and you could see the contrast/details on the target....the cheaper 16x scopes made the targets look yellow/muddy like it had a dirty lens.
The SWFA scopes are not airgun rated but they are .50 rated...and quite a few shooters have moved to the higher powered SWFA scopes (they used to only make fixed power scopes but now make variables) and have put their fixed power scopes on various magnum spring air rifles (R1/R9/HW98, etc..) with no issues. The scopes are way over built. Lot of owners come back from mini 5-10 day rifle shooting camps in the desert and see lots of scopes die...and the SWFA's just keep on trucking.
Plus having a fixed power means less moving parts/more robust so that will give it extra durability.
I want to keep it under $300 but get the best possible glass. Over on the optics forums there are many that claim the SWFA fixed power scopes are right there with Vortex HD, Leupold variables, and Sightrons.
The Busnell Elite 3200 10X also interests me but it has no adjustable focus so that one is off the list.
I'm thinking of either the 10x or the 12x. Both with side focus but I would prefer the rear focus models (focus ring is located in the usual zoom ring spot).
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P53712.aspx (http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P53712.aspx)
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-12x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P53714.aspx (http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-12x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P53714.aspx)
Mainly deciding between these two.
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Also, the SWFA scopes have 120 moa of adjustments which is incredible....so you never have to worry about running of adjustments/having to use an adjustable mount to get the scope centered so you have enough clicks.
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Because you're looking to shoot the fixed power scope at 10 yards too, my vote goes for the 10x due to less of a hassle at close range compared to 12x and up.
10x would be the better all-round magnification imo.
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10+ years .. When you make your mind about the zoom and buy a SWFA, it seems to me you're going to fall in love with it.
A scope on an airgun suffers from the (frontward) 'recoil grade' - and - from the accumulated number of recoils.
So, if I were you, I would put it on a dampa mount. Even a kind of simple one, for instance - DM 60. Even only as the just in case mode..
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I'm thinking of either the 10x or the 12x. Both with side focus but I would prefer the rear focus models (focus ring is located in the usual zoom ring spot).
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P53712.aspx (http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P53712.aspx)
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-12x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P53714.aspx (http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-12x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P53714.aspx)
Mainly deciding between these two.
They look like very nice scopes for the money. Note: the specifications indicate SF while the photos on the links do not appear to show SF.
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I'm thinking of either the 10x or the 12x. Both with side focus but I would prefer the rear focus models (focus ring is located in the usual zoom ring spot).
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P53712.aspx (http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P53712.aspx)
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-12x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P53714.aspx (http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-12x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P53714.aspx)
Mainly deciding between these two.
They look like very nice scopes for the money. Note: the specifications indicate SF while the photos on the links do not appear to show SF.
I think that technical section has two options for focus....side focus or objective focus. Since this scope is an oddity with the rear endbell focus (where the usual zoom ring is located), they considered it "side" even though it's not.
They do offer a true side focus model in the exact same scope....
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42M-Tactical-Riflescope-P53713.aspx (http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42M-Tactical-Riflescope-P53713.aspx)
For a $100 more.
From what I've read, most shooters prefer the rear focus. It makes sense because it doesn't block the turrets, doesn't interfere with a sunshade (like a front objective focuser), and your able to do it easily with one hand while the other remains on the grip.
Wish more scopes had a similar rear focus but it's almost impossible since that's the typical position of a zoom ring.
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10+ years .. When you make your mind about the zoom and buy a SWFA, it seems to me you're going to fall in love with it.
A scope on an airgun suffers from the (frontward) 'recoil grade' - and - from the accumulated number of recoils.
So, if I were you, I would put it on a dampa mount. Even a kind of simple one, for instance - DM 60. Even only as the just in case mode..
I agree. I learned the hard way on my old RWS 36. I broke two inexpensive Tasco Pronghorn scopes before going to an airgun scope. I've seen a few posts on optics forums where the owners talk about putting the fixed version on break barrel guns like the Beeman R1 and others with no issues after years of shooting.
My gun has the sledge system for anti-recoil....it's a springer but has no springer jolt/twang. I do wonder if the sledge system is less harsh on scopes though since the reciever is sliding backwards a 1/4"
I've had a lot of time behind a Barrett M82A1 and in the desert and they also have an odd recoil system that seems to break scopes. There is the regular recoil but the barrel slides (or should say slams) rearward in the receiver to adsorb felt recoil to the shooter. It ends up feeling like a 12 gauge but you really need a strong scope/mounts.
If you ever run into anyone with experience with an M82, ask them if they've had any "fun times" when removing the recoil spring for cleaning. We've had them fly past our faces/travel 30 yds at the armory. It just took one moment like that before you become VERY careful.
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Jeff, I just have read about, but the Diana 54 has some recoil dampening system - to the shooter, and still is a hard recoil for the scopes.
In my actual airgun learning curve, even with not so hard recoils, the cumulative factor is also a scope killer.
Worst, a scope doesn't need to fall apart .. It is the nightmare when, subtly, 'POI shifting' starts, and causes your lost of confidence.
I would ask about the warranty policy - if airgun is the case, any problem?
From a subjective perspective, and in other words, I don't think you have to put your new partner under (long lasting) fire, and unprotected, just in order to prove its ability to survive. Just between us, with the DM 60, you don't even notice the "bullet-proof vest" when the scope is on..
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I'm thinking of either the 10x or the 12x. Both with side focus but I would prefer the rear focus models (focus ring is located in the usual zoom ring spot).
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P53712.aspx (http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P53712.aspx)
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-12x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P53714.aspx (http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-12x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P53714.aspx)
Mainly deciding between these two.
They look like very nice scopes for the money. Note: the specifications indicate SF while the photos on the links do not appear to show SF.
The 10x is available with side turret parallax or rear parallax ring.
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Because you're looking to shoot the fixed power scope at 10 yards too, my vote goes for the 10x due to less of a hassle at close range compared to 12x and up.
10x would be the better all-round magnification imo.
Bad news, maybe, maybe knot, the SWFA SS10x42's parallax ring is calibrated in 'meters' as in metric, and focus's down 10 meters, not 10 yards. Really shouldn't make a difference backyard in'. There's a post on the Y ello W forum of someone attempting a mod for 10 yard focus with bad results.
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Bad news, maybe, maybe knot, the SWFA SS10x42's parallax ring is calibrated in 'meters' as in metric, and focus's down 10 meters, not 10 yards. Really shouldn't make a difference backyard in'. There's a post on the Y ello W forum of someone attempting a mod for 10 yard focus with bad results.
There's not the big difference between meters and yards that may be imagined here. One meter equals 1.09 yards. Ten meters would be 10.9 yards.
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Because you're looking to shoot the fixed power scope at 10 yards too, my vote goes for the 10x due to less of a hassle at close range compared to 12x and up.
10x would be the better all-round magnification imo.
Bad news, maybe, maybe knot, the SWFA SS10x42's parallax ring is calibrated in 'meters' as in metric, and focus's down 10 meters, not 10 yards. Really shouldn't make a difference backyard in'. There's a post on the Y ello W forum of someone attempting a mod for 10 yard focus with bad results.
I appreciate the heads up...I do most of my shooting in meters though.
I have found that with most scopes, the "focuses down to ____ meters/yards)" technical information is not always the most accurate. It can be 10 yards or oven 6-8yds. I think 10yds is just a guarantee and anything less than that is a freebie or just a characteristic of that specific lens.
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I shoot mainly at 25 yards & find myself wanting more magnification at even that distance so, in a fixed power, I'd opt for the 16X.
I too have been following/yearning after SWFA scopes for some time. Altho I'd prefer a variable but would 'settle' for a 16x fixed power. Big plus with a fixed power is the rear ring focusing option.
Good luck with your choice.
EDIT: I'll amend my choice if HFT is potentially in your future, then 12x instead.