GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: wormbobskey on March 17, 2015, 09:30:21 PM
-
What kind of lube can be used to lubricate the hammer in a marauder? Also how much tension should be on the valve stem that the hammer contacts?
-
when I removed the stock hammer to install a WAR NBH I noticed a dry graphite like residue. To make a short story shorter, I lubed with dry graphite.
-
I used some moly that I got from Tim. What about the valve stem? Should it move freely or with a little resistance? I tried to move mine with my finger and it wouldn't move at all.
-
I used some moly that I got from Tim. What about the valve stem? Should it move freely or with a little resistance? I tried to move mine with my finger and it wouldn't move at all.
That sounds about right.
-
No movement it should be taunt against valve stem. I use Teflon dry lube on a very cleaned bore then a wet lube on hammer when I install.
-
I like to use DuPont KRYTOX on a well cleaned hammer and tube. And I agree with Travis about the valve pin, no movement!
Matt
-
Shot the rifle over the chrono again today and the bolt is still very hard to cock. Tim said to check the inside of the tube where the hammer rides back and forth, that it may be scarred so I'm going to break it down again tonight and make sure its not all scarred up. I don't recollect seeing any scratches in the tube so assuming its not scarred up what can I do to make the bolt cycle smoother? Lighter hammer spring? Appreciate any help.
-
Shot the rifle over the chrono again today and the bolt is still very hard to cock. Tim said to check the inside of the tube where the hammer rides back and forth, that it may be scarred so I'm going to break it down again tonight and make sure its not all scarred up. I don't recollect seeing any scratches in the tube so assuming its not scarred up what can I do to make the bolt cycle smoother? Lighter hammer spring? Appreciate any help.
Make sure you don't have the detent on top of the bolt too tight, that will cause it to be hard to cock.
-
I don't think its the detent on the bolt. Looked in the tube and where the slot is that the sear comes up through there is a shallow groove straight in line with the sear cut out. Looks like maybe a burr got under the hammer from the trigger group and wore out the shallow scar under the hammer. The hammer's finish is worn where it has run across this scar.
-
Shot the rifle over the chrono again today and the bolt is still very hard to cock. Tim said to check the inside of the tube where the hammer rides back and forth, that it may be scarred so I'm going to break it down again tonight and make sure its not all scarred up. I don't recollect seeing any scratches in the tube so assuming its not scarred up what can I do to make the bolt cycle smoother? Lighter hammer spring? Appreciate any help.
Make sure you don't have the detent on top of the bolt too tight, that will cause it to be hard to cock.
+1. Also, I use McLube 108. Its a dry molybdenum disulfide spray. I find it more effective on a hammer that is unpolished. I Spray it all over with 2 coats then rollit between a couple of pcs of derin sheet under moderate force. Spray again before install. Lube vs no lube showed and increase in fps. Small but increase and I had to take a touch off of the spring tension to get efficiency back.
-
Shot the rifle over the chrono again today and the bolt is still very hard to cock. Tim said to check the inside of the tube where the hammer rides back and forth, that it may be scarred so I'm going to break it down again tonight and make sure its not all scarred up. I don't recollect seeing any scratches in the tube so assuming its not scarred up what can I do to make the bolt cycle smoother? Lighter hammer spring? Appreciate any help.
Make sure you don't have the detent on top of the bolt too tight, that will cause it to be hard to cock.
+1. Also, I use McLube 108. Its a dry molybdenum disulfide spray. I find it more effective on a hammer that is unpolished. I Spray it all over with 2 coats then rollit between a couple of pcs of derin sheet under moderate force. Spray again before install. Lube vs no lube showed and increase in fps. Small but increase and I had to take a touch off of the spring tension to get efficiency back.
Where do you find this product for sale? Google isn't bringing up and online retailers for me and McLube site appears wholesale to dealers only.
-
Went to sporting goods store that sells guns and such and saw that Hoppe's had a dry lube spray. Would something like that work? If not, where can I pick up some McLube 108?
-
Can any type of grease be used on the hammer? Like lithium or some other high heat grease.
-
;D If I were going to use anything it would be Ultymox/Kroytox #226 just a little dab and smear a thin coat
-
Can any type of grease be used on the hammer? Like lithium or some other high heat grease.
I have always heard that heavy greases should be avoided on the hammer and inside the tube, as it will actually slow the hammer down, producing under powered shots. Polishing the hammer and light, dry lube seems to be what works best.
-
Does anyone know what Crosman uses when they assemble?
A dry graphite coating would seem like a fine idea. There's not a lot of pressure or high heat here for moly right? It seems like just about anything would work in moderation except petroleum based products that might get in the valve somehow.
-
We get it in large quantity at work. Any dry lube will work and my personal objection to liquids or geases are that they tend to hold onto particulate. That makes them kinda gummy over time. there is a graphite lube that I use on the slide of the 1911 and I can't remember the name off the top of my head. Worked great but I remember always hating the mess that it made. Inside a tube would probably be really good. Any dry graphite or moly-d will serve you well. McLube is just a brand/supplier. Another approach that you can take is too polish the hammer to a mirror finish. start with 400grit and end with 7 micron diamond paste. The hammer is hard and the tube is soft so as long as all the edges are smooth the likelyhood of raising a bur or galding is very low. Again the force on the bearing surface is pretty low. Probably highest during cocking.
FWIW
Bill
-
The only mark in the tube is straight in-line with the sear slot. Looks like something from the trigger group may have got under the hammer and caused the scar. I applied some of the moly powder I got from Tim and it is easier to cock, but still sort of gritty feeling when its drawn back. I made sure that both screws in the hammer and bolt were tight. Still trying to tune this rifle and any time I try to increase the hammer spring tension the bolt gets harder to cock. Getting mid 700 FPS on the chrono with 21 gr H&N's. Would like to get the rifle in the mid 800's with these pellets if possible. Would hate to have to replace the tube or the hammer, but if need be that's what I would do. Can anyone post crosmans on line repair parts catalog? I'm pretty computer illiterate when it comes to searching for things on line. Again, I appreciate all the help. Mike
-
Dri-Slide makes a spray lubricant that has moly in it. It works very well for your application. I use it to lubricate the hammer on my HW100 so that it is less adversely affected when shooting in the cold. See http://www.drislide.com/products/drislide-ep-liquid-grease (http://www.drislide.com/products/drislide-ep-liquid-grease) and http://www.drislide.com/products/drislide-multi-purpose-moly-lubricant (http://www.drislide.com/products/drislide-multi-purpose-moly-lubricant)
-
If I'm reading the information correctly, once the carrier has evaporated then all that's left is the moly, graphite and rust inhibitors?
As a side note, I took the rifle out and shot 20 pellets through it with no major problems, but still feels a little gritty feeling. Good news is a starling made the mistake of trying to steal some dog food and paid the price. The marauder has been bloodied. Didn't even have to adjust scope after having removed it to work on the bolt and hammer. Center point may be on the low end of cheap scopes, but this one holds zero very well.
-
https://youtu.be/CiXzq4WVA5s DO THIS!!!
-
;D Great youtube video thanks for the link I haven't started playing with the tuning on my Gen II .25
-
I'm vote for krytox very lightly. You will realize that you only need a tiny amount. I have tested many Lubes and krytox is the winner for me when there are moving parts.
-
I just ordered some of the Drislide moly spray lube. Where can I get some of that 2wt PJ1 H.V.I to try?
-
UPS dropped off the drislide moly lube I ordered. Pretty quick shipping I have to say. Anyway, applied it to the hammer and allowed it to air dry for a few hours. Didn't really take that long, just wanted to make sure it was dry. Put the marauder back together and its as smooth as silk. Put the scope back on and with two adjustments had it re-zeroed and stacking pellet on pellet at 25 yards. Weather is supposed to turn wet the next few days so won't be able to finish tuning it till we get a little better weather. Want to run it over the chrono and see if I can't get it shooting into the mid to high 800's. Thanks for all the help, its appreciated.
-
UPS dropped off the drislide moly lube I ordered. Pretty quick shipping I have to say. Anyway, applied it to the hammer and allowed it to air dry for a few hours. Didn't really take that long, just wanted to make sure it was dry. Put the marauder back together and its as smooth as silk. Put the scope back on and with two adjustments had it re-zeroed and stacking pellet on pellet at 25 yards. Weather is supposed to turn wet the next few days so won't be able to finish tuning it till we get a little better weather. Want to run it over the chrono and see if I can't get it shooting into the mid to high 800's. Thanks for all the help, its appreciated.
Does anyone see any reason one couldn't use this on any hammer weight? I can see trying it on 13xx, 22xx, and Disco weights.
I have found a similar looking product on Amazon to the drislide since the OP put this up.
One is called "CRC Extreme Duty Open Gear and Chain Lube".
The product contains Moly and Graphite.
Edit this stuff is not the same as drislide and looks messy.
-
Not to get OT from the OP but I'm going with drislide on a Disco hammer weight. I am imagining a number of other applications for this product as well, such as sear and trigger contact surfaces and other uses around the house.
-
Don't want to beat this topic to death but this is my last post on it.
I used this product on my Disco hammer weight. In order to get a good coating, I had to heat the hammer weight with a heat gun and apply light coats. I stuck it on the end of a piece of 1/4 inch dowel to use as a handle.
Otherwise without heat, it would run off and drip off the weight. Make sure you have adequate ventilation if you try this. I'm sure the vapors are extremely volatile and not healthy to breathe. A hair dryer would probably work too. Seems to slide just fine inside the tube.
-
The only mark in the tube is straight in-line with the sear slot. Looks like something from the trigger group may have got under the hammer and caused the scar. I applied some of the moly powder I got from Tim and it is easier to cock, but still sort of gritty feeling when its drawn back. I made sure that both screws in the hammer and bolt were tight. Still trying to tune this rifle and any time I try to increase the hammer spring tension the bolt gets harder to cock. Getting mid 700 FPS on the chrono with 21 gr H&N's. Would like to get the rifle in the mid 800's with these pellets if possible. Would hate to have to replace the tube or the hammer, but if need be that's what I would do. Can anyone post crosmans on line repair parts catalog? I'm pretty computer illiterate when it comes to searching for things on line. Again, I appreciate all the help. Mike
Bringing this thread back because it helped me in my recent problem. Hopefully, if someone has the same problem it can help them too.
I had an issue with the hammer getting a very gritty feeling when pulling the bolt back. I knew I had some galling somewhere going on (this was far more than something coming loose or needing just lube). My problem was in fact from some pretty bad galling on the bottom side of the hammer (on the tube).
I found the same markings right behind sear cutout on the tube. I decided to do a complete teardown to remove the galling best I could and maybe help prevent it in the future.
After it was apart, it was time for a hot soapy bath (get all the silicone grease out), I deburred those sharp punched out slots Crosman left me.
First I took out a ball hone and cleaned up the bore until all signs of galling were removed. I decided to hone all the way to the gauge block (the o-ring eating hole).
After I finished with the hone I pushed a couple paper towels through (Push through to clean out the tube) then tube went back into the hot soapy bath for another deap clean.
Next I took a dremel & some wenol polish (I gave the entire hammer stroke area a nice mirror polish).
Decided while the armada was completely tore down, it was a great time to replace all orings.
I gave the bottom of the hammer a softer bevel to relieve some contact/friction footprint. Then a quick polish.
Both the bore & hammer got a couple light coats of dry teflon.
Gave the tube a light coat of silicone grease to help with reinstalling the valve, gauge block & depinger. Gave it a 24 hour pressure check (passed).
Instantly I was amazed at how smooth it is now. It feels 100x better than it did out of the box.
Like every other part of your airgun that you take apart to clean/improve/modify. This area shouldn't be overlooked!
Bevel on the bottom of the hammer made a huge difference.
(http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r563/mkdive/Airguns/90F2A08D-A322-4F09-A764-A58E1CA6C96C_zpssyiw08id.jpg) (http://s1172.photobucket.com/user/mkdive/media/Airguns/90F2A08D-A322-4F09-A764-A58E1CA6C96C_zpssyiw08id.jpg.html)
(http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r563/mkdive/Airguns/A69CAC75-6A4E-4476-833E-1C8A71BEA9DA_zpshkfpbntu.jpg) (http://s1172.photobucket.com/user/mkdive/media/Airguns/A69CAC75-6A4E-4476-833E-1C8A71BEA9DA_zpshkfpbntu.jpg.html)
(http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r563/mkdive/Airguns/8EA4BE32-DB16-4F59-8D96-7C186FC6C7CC_zpspbp1k25i.jpg) (http://s1172.photobucket.com/user/mkdive/media/Airguns/8EA4BE32-DB16-4F59-8D96-7C186FC6C7CC_zpspbp1k25i.jpg.html)
(http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r563/mkdive/Airguns/1E9004CD-E03B-4A98-80CA-36C5E71F8C62_zpsttiy3anb.jpg) (http://s1172.photobucket.com/user/mkdive/media/Airguns/1E9004CD-E03B-4A98-80CA-36C5E71F8C62_zpsttiy3anb.jpg.html)
-
Hey Wormbobskey, with the choking needle out of the way, you should be able to get the velocity you seek. Remove the wee jam screw and back it out 4 turns.
cheers,
Douglas
-
Pardon me if I'm reading the description of the issue wrong, but I understand that you are trying to repair a "hard cocking effort". If this is a gen 1 Marauder, make sure the little bolt retention screw that's visible on the left side of the receiver is tight, it is known for working loose and causing drag. Also, make sure the bolt itself has a thin coat of moly, or it will bind. At least, these are both things I have experienced that make a bolt considerably harder to cock.
Edit - looks like I'm late to the punch...sorry!