GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => China/Asian AirGun Gate => Topic started by: 62hotrod on March 09, 2015, 08:17:39 PM
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I had done a complete tune(most every mod in the book) on my Ruger Air Hawk Elite. I had just finished setting it up to shoot a HFT match. I optically centered the scope and all. I was doing some practice shooting and from one shot to the next the POI shifted downwards 12-14 inches but still I hole groups at 20 yards. I put a back up scope on it and mechanically centered it, still way low POI. I opened it back up the main oring seal was good, replaced it with a parachute type just in case, the breech seal is good. Its still shooting one holers at 20 yards, just shooting them way low at about the same place. I'm stumped what else could it be other than the barrel bending?
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It's an interesting problem and it happened to me with my first Nitro Venom. When new it shot way low. I adjusted the scope to compensate and it was pretty accurate. After about three or four weeks it was shooting way high. I readjusted my scope. It was again accurate. Next the point of impact dropped a couple of inches. I let it sit over night and it was where it belonged for about sixty shots, then it dropped a couple of inches. I continued shooting and it came partially back up.
I never did figure out the problem. It was on warranty so I sent it back. It was just a strange airgun. I have since learned it may have been a flaky piston seal. I guess I'll never know. I do know bending the barrel would not have solved that one.
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Usually after tuning all guns need some shooting to work fine.
I remember my last one about a month or so ago,new,shooting nice,760 fps with aa 8.44
After 200 shots she was shooting 800 fps (and higher)and after 500 -600 she was doing 830 (and also higher) with AA 8.44
and stayed there.Now she is shooting 830 with sd 1.3 ft !!! and always the POI is the same
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It just blows my mind, I had probably shot a tin through up to this point it getting it shot in. I've had the gun for close to year and never a problem out of the ordinary with it.
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Check the breech seal. Check for a broken spring. Check the piston seal.
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if the rifle is shooting low but is accurate then you will need to adjust the barrel, two ways to do this, one is to very carefully file at the breech the second is to bend the barrel to match the scope...
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THANK YOU MIKE!!! Is there a way to prevent this from happening again. I bent the barrel to get it zeroed to the optically centered scope. I thought that it was very easy to do, almost too easy. I'm running a Vortek OEM PG2 kit, and it don't seem any harder to cock than when it was stock. Talking to another knowledgeable airgunner last night he thinks I pulled too hard when it bottomed out on the cocking cycle. I don't see how, but then again I hunt with a Hatsan 125 and I think it's easy to cock. What if I shortened it up some??? Yea, it sounds stupid, I'm thinking less area to bend?????
Maybe I need to go back to thinking 46U again????????
Just when you think you've got it figured out, bang...............
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Personal opinions here since I'm not a "Chinese gun guru"!
Is there a way to prevent this from happening again.
Well...I do know that my Remmy barrels are 15mm and my HW95/Beeman R9 barrels are 16mm. The thinner Remmy barrel is about 14 3/4" long and the R9 barrel is about 12 1/2" long. Anywhoo.....I do know that the cocking effort required for my Remmy with factory spring is considerably harder than my R9 for less velocity (but velocity is over rated anyway ;D).
I bent the barrel to get it zeroed to the optically centered scope.
For years I've been optically centering my scope via the "mirror method", however due to a couple suggestions here I recently started mechanically centering my 3-12x44 Optisan Viper by the "count turret clocks stop to stop then divide by two". Surprise.....when I was doing some practice at my back yard shooting lane I found that I had bent a lot of "snoop" into the barrel to get the poi within 1/2" at the aim point at 30 yards when centering the reticle using the "mirror method"! The "count clicks and divide by two" mechanical reticle centering put my poi about one FOOT high at 30 yards! I took my padded C-Clamp and blocks to the practice lane and added "droop" to my R9 barrel. Here is a pic of my barrel tweaking apparatus.......
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/2912014/1413718621_855777435_BarrelBend.JPG) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=59637)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
Took a LOT of "C-Clamp handle force applied several places to get the poi down to the aim point at 30 yards. I found this to be interesting since both barrels of the Remmies had a LOT of droop when using the "mirror method" for reticle centering. Anywhoo.....yesterday the practice session went well and even though the scope reticle was simply "mechanically centered" I was able to rangefind well (as good as I can do at only 12x) and I'm pleased with the result. LOL....another benefit of "count clicks, divide by two" was that I didn't have to remove the scope to do so and I didn't have to precisely position my eye in the ocular lens to do the centering!
I thought that it was very easy to do, almost too easy.
The steel in the Chinese barrel also "seems" to be softer than the R9 barrel judging by the relatively small amount of pressure required to bend the Remmy barrel, however that could be because of the extra Remmy barrel length and thinner 15mm diameter.
I'm running a Vortek OEM PG2 kit, and it don't seem any harder to cock than when it was stock.
IMHO....the cocking effort of the Remmy is excessive for the fpe output! I just chronied my Remmy with factory spring and it was shooting 8.4 JSBs at 790-800 fps, then I chronied the R9 and even with less cocking effort on a shorter barrel and it shot the 8.4 JSBs at the expected 850fps so I know that the chrony is OK! This kinda reminds me of the HW35 I owned years ago with it's jointed cocking lever. The HW35 cocking effort was about 40 pounds yet the pellet velocity was 100fps slower than the R10 which had a one piece cocking lever and similar cocking effort.
Talking to another knowledgeable airgunner last night he thinks I pulled too hard when it bottomed out on the cocking cycle. I don't see how, but then again I hunt with a Hatsan 125 and I think it's easy to cock.
With piston guns I've noticed quite a few "ham fisted cockers", and this can indeed affect the stability of the poi! All that's needed is a slow deliberate pull till the safety button "pops out", then return the barrel to the latched position. Again, the re-latching of the barrel should have deliberate "latching pressure" instead of "slamming home"! I don't know how hard YOU yank the barrel when you cock the gun but it does seem to me that the combination of articulated cocking lever, thin barrel and relatively long barrel would be prone to being bent with excess pressure. Here's a bit of "breaking the barrel process I use"........To initially break the barrel latching detent I first smartly smack the top of the muzzle with the palm of my hand to unlatch the detent, then I pull the barrel smoothly till the safety sets. With some springers the barrel latching detent is rather stiff to unlatch (a good thing), so00000 using the same force for the complete cocking stroke and set the safety as is required to "unlatch the detent" could be excessive.
What if I shortened it up some???
LOL......might keep the barrel from being bent but it will also make the already too heavy cocking effort relative to the power output even harder!
Some nced personal comments......
My hope was to be able to demonstrate that a complete hunter class field target rig could be assembled for about $250 which included a Remmy, 4-16x40 CenterPoint scope, UTG two piece mounts, and a tin of pellets. Well......so far I've failed, but the Remmy does LOOK GOOD! ;D
I'll continue messing with the Remmy because it really does have the best fit and finish of any Chinese gun I've owned and the parts do seem to be well made! My main complaints of the gun are simply because I'm comparing it to my $450 R9 and these complaints are......
1....Heavy and long relative to fpe!
2....Reach to trigger blade is too long for my hands and I'm considering making a set-back trigger to deal with this issue.
3....Cocking effort too high relative to the fps output (perhaps an oring sealed piston will be a partial solution).
4....The scope mounting dovetails that don't extend all the way out of the back of the receiver. You won't be using a BKL mount on this one without spreading the "claws" to clear the top of the dovetails. Here is a pic of the one piece BKL mount I used with the Remmy showing cracking in the anodize....
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/552015/1424824751_356903924_CrackedBKL.JPG) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=67329)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/552015/1424824748_2090995843_EndCrackedBKL.JPG) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=67328)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
5....There are no real stop pin holes for scope mounts with clamp plates and stop pins.
Hummm.....I bet that if the gun were used with only the supplied open sights the "scope mounted accuracy issues" would generally go away. Perhaps the gun was only designed for "barrel mounted sights"!
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I got my UTG scope back on the Ruger, Mechanically centered it. Got it out and shot it, same ole same ole. way low. Very gently started bending the barrel upwards and shooting at 20 yards. I managed to get it very close after a few tries. I was very shocked at how easy it was to purposely bend that barrel. I moved out to thirty yards and finished it up. It now resides in a hard shell case, no more soft cases. What an education, please take heed. I've always been very careful when cocking it and always kept a hand on the muzzle when loading. Retracing my steps I remember having it tucked under my arm with the muzzle in my hand and torquing it pretty good picking up a dropped pellet. I simply cannot believe I did it that easy. Here's my proof it got it back on zero, a 10 shot group from shooting at a pellet hole.
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How about putting a sleeve on the barrel to add strength if you figure you bent it.
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I promise, I'm going to look into that. Lots of home work to be done on that subject. Hopefully someone's been there and done that and will chime in and save me from reinventing the wheel.
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I promise, I'm going to look into that. Lots of home work to be done on that subject. Hopefully someone's been there and done that and will chime in and save me from reinventing the wheel.
Just get some tubing that will fit over your barrel and epoxy it on.
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If the budget can stand it I'd like something that'll look pretty cool and be functional. I've got a couple idea's along those lines. I'm in too deep on this project to let up now.
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;D Talk to Rsterne, Packprotector and they may be able to send you in the right direction for a carbon fiber sleeve