GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Benjamin Airguns => Topic started by: Gr8Gorilla on March 05, 2015, 11:15:15 AM
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I recently purchased a Titan GP from my local sporting goods store. I paid full retail of $169.99 for the privilege of being able to take the gun home myself, that day. I read the owner's manual and noticed it called for a 250 shot break in period, for the spring to settle. After going through my first tin of 500 CPHP pellets; I was at Wally World and saw a Center Point 4-16 x 40mm Adventure class scope on clearance for $13.97 and HAD TO HAVE IT! This is where all of my troubles began. It came with mounts for a Picatinny rail and my gun has dovetail mounts.
Now, I am going to leave out several parts of the story and get to the meat and potatoes. I can't stand the Dovetail mount on the gun and most of the Dovetail to Picatinny or Weaver have awful reviews. After some research, I decided to order some parts from Crossman. So, today I ordered the compression tube assembly with the picatinny rails from the Trail NP. I also ordered the barrel cover for the Trail to give it that "Bull" barrel look. The piston seal in my GP was burned black from detonations that happened during my second 500 pellets. Crossman is sending me a replacement Piston and seal under warranty with my order (Not to mention that it had lost all power and couldn't put a pellet through wet cardboard from 15 feet away). I also ordered the Gas Ram from the NP XL. It is much bigger and I will be using my Jorgenson Cabinet Master to "Shoe Horn" it into my gun. The total cost for all my parts was $56.
Once all my parts arrive I will update this with photos as I go along. I will also be doing a similar thread when all of my NP XL Parts arrive. I will be assembling the NP XL myself so I will debur and clean the gun before putting it together.
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I was at Wally World and saw a Center Point 4-16 x 40mm Adventure class scope on clearance for $13.97 and HAD TO HAVE IT!
I also ordered the barrel cover for the Trail to give it that "Bull" barrel look. The piston seal in my GP was burned black from detonations that happened during my second 500 pellets. Crossman is sending me a replacement Piston and seal under warranty with my order (Not to mention that it had lost all power and couldn't put a pellet through wet cardboard from 15 feet away). I also ordered the Gas Ram from the NP XL. It is much bigger and I will be using my Jorgenson Cabinet Master to "Shoe Horn" it into my gun.
I wish I could grab a deal like you got on that scope! That was a total steal at that price.
Did you also get the Trail NP barrel? The shroud will not fit the standard barrel so if you want to complete the look you'll need the barrel in .177 or .22 as well, around $30 shipped. I'm not 100% positive on this but I think the gas ram is also going to be a no-go. I know it won't go in directly and I suspect that if you get it in there you won't be able to cock the gun because the ram will bottom out before the piston latches. It's been a while since I've had an NP open but I think the NP XL ram might also have too big of an OD to fit the retainer at the back of the gun.
Good luck! Definitely interested to see how it works out.
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I own a few Crosman's myself. I always read about how customers call and say my new gun needs this or that or a new piston seal. Finding out your gun needs a piston seal means you had to take the gun apart. So doesn't this void the warranty?
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I own a few Crosman's myself. I always read about how customers call and say my new gun needs this or that or a new piston seal. Finding out your gun needs a piston seal means you had to take the gun apart. So doesn't this void the warranty?
According to the rep I spoke to, only if you can't get the gun back together. So, as long as the gun is assembled as if from the factory, self repairs do not void the warranty. I also asked her how to fix the horrible trigger and she suggested that I go to charliedatuna.com and buy his trigger to replace mine. She also sent the piston and seal assembly with the seal already installed, under warranty.
I got the Trail Compression Tube the piston for the Trail NP and Titan are the same part number. So the compression tube with the picatinny rails should work fine in my stock. I got the tube cover, shroud, o-rings, etc for the bull barrel. The barrel assembly is the same part number for the NP and Titan GP/NP. As far as I can tell the Titan GP/NP is just the budget version of the much nicer Trail NP series. My local retailer didn't have this but did have a few .25 Titan Xls in stock @ $300 each. That is why I went with the Titan at the time.
If the ram for the Titan XL that I ordered doesn't fit then I won't be out anything. I am also building a Trail NP XL in .22 (perhaps I should say Assembling) and the compression tube for it is currently on back order. I already have the barrel assembly with shroud in place as well as many of the parts on order. I was really hoping to find a synthetic stock that will fit the Trail XL. I have a hunch but I can't confirm it until I actually get the XL compression tube in hand.
The power that the XL generates is from a combination of both a more powerful gas spring and a much larger piston/compression tube than the standard Trail NP guns. The barrel is also slightly longer but I am not sure if that actually helps or not. I have also read reports of someone converting their Hatsan Sniper 125 in .25 to NP with the XL NP and that it was consistently cronying 840 fps and I can't remember how many grains he said the pellets were but I know that it was about 40-41+ FPE. If that is not boasting and/or outright lying then I think I may have to give this one a go as well. I like the looks of the Hatsan Sniper 125 and will probably buy a springer in .25 before I begin to dabble in the dark, evil, world, known as PCP guns....
Does anyone have any knowledge about the Hatsan Sniper 125 in .25 with the XL gas spring in it? I know this is the Crossman gate but I am asking about their spring so.....
Also it looks like the spring in my Titan has a threaded hole for adding or removing gas from the piston. When I get my parts and take the gun apart again I will take pictures. I am going to add pictures of the entire process once everything arrives.
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The more I am learning about Air Guns the more I am really starting to like Crossman.
The most expensive replacement parts I have come across on a Crossman Spring gun is the stock. So far, everyone I have priced, whether synthetic or wood, is $29, that is on 4 different guns, all different models. Most parts range from $1 or less to about $15 for barrel assemblies and compression tubes. I suspect that most models compression tubes are interchangeable. Not all, but most.
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I got the Trail Compression Tube the piston for the Trail NP and Titan are the same part number. So the compression tube with the picatinny rails should work fine in my stock. I got the tube cover, shroud, o-rings, etc for the bull barrel. The barrel assembly is the same part number for the NP and Titan GP/NP. As far as I can tell the Titan GP/NP is just the budget version of the much nicer Trail NP series. My local retailer didn't have this but did have a few .25 Titan Xls in stock @ $300 each. That is why I went with the Titan at the time.
Yep, you're good on the stock fitment but the barrel isn't the same between the Titan and the Trail. Trails have M12x1 threads on the end for the shroud cap, they're also thinner than the unshrouded barrels. Pop the shroud off your XL barrel and take a look.
I don't know of a synthetic one off hand but there are several Crosman/Benjamin stocks that should fit the XL with minimal effort if you're looking to get away from the thumb hole. It's a lot harder to check the EVP's than it used to be (Thanks, Crosman web guru...) but try looking for a magnum springer under the Remington section.
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The muzzle break on my Titan was not threaded. There were no screws. I just pulled on it and it came right off. No twisting needed. The exploded view for the Benjamin Trail NP shows the barrel that looks exactly like the one on the Titan EVP has same number except for the model number prefix. That is not the case with the XL for example which I have in front of me and is a much larger receiver. I will know for certain when I have the Trail NP Compression tube in front of me though.
But for reference the Titan GP is model number BW8M22NP the Trail NP is BT9M22WNP. To me, the Trail NP looks like it is just a higher model number. If you look at the parts lists for the two side by side, every single part has the same number with a few minor differences such as the NP Spring having an A designation at the end of it. The barrel assembly is prefixed with BT9 instead of B19 but the actual numbers are the same. Also I told the Crossman Customer Service rep that I was replacing the tube on my Titan so I could have better scope mounts and though she wouldn't recommend a tube that would fit, she did say that some would and she didn't discourage me from purchasing the one that I did choose. That is an indication that it is going to work but not a certainty. We will all know in 5-7 business days, one day next week anyway.
When I assemble the Trail XL I will take photos, possibly video, to share the process. I will need to assemble all of the "tuning" items that I will need. I have a Dremel, files, clamps and what not. Need some dowels and some sand paper as well I think for the compression tube. Gotta get some Moly and bore paste as well. Will likely just order everything online.
As a side note, most dovetail to picatinny conversion things cost around $15 or more. If this mod works, you could replace the entire tube and have a much better picatinny rail that was much more stable, and it would cost the same or less probably than a high quality mount. That is food for thought, seriously.
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I believe the Titan and the Venom are the same gun except the Venom has the Picatinny rail ya wanted...
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I have a .22 crosman Titan. I have had it for several years and have probably put over 5k pellets through it. Mine is still a great shooter. It will still drop a possums at 16 yards no problem.
I put a one piece dovetail mount on mine and have had 0 slipping or shifting issues on the dovetail. I have had a Centerpoint 3-9x32 on mine for years and it has worked well for me.
I hope you get your gun straightened out.
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The muzzle break on my Titan was not threaded. There were no screws. I just pulled on it and it came right off. No twisting needed. The exploded view for the Benjamin Trail NP shows the barrel that looks exactly like the one on the Titan EVP has same number except for the model number prefix. That is not the case with the XL for example which I have in front of me and is a much larger receiver. I will know for certain when I have the Trail NP Compression tube in front of me though.
But for reference the Titan GP is model number BW8M22NP the Trail NP is BT9M22WNP. To me, the Trail NP looks like it is just a higher model number. If you look at the parts lists for the two side by side, every single part has the same number with a few minor differences such as the NP Spring having an A designation at the end of it. The barrel assembly is prefixed with BT9 instead of B19 but the actual numbers are the same. Also I told the Crossman Customer Service rep that I was replacing the tube on my Titan so I could have better scope mounts and though she wouldn't recommend a tube that would fit, she did say that some would and she didn't discourage me from purchasing the one that I did choose. That is an indication that it is going to work but not a certainty. We will all know in 5-7 business days, one day next week anyway.
....you've got all the info right there. No, the Titan is not threaded. The Trail is threaded, M12x1. That's how the shroud retainer is attached to the barrel. The Trail barrel is also thinner than the Titan barrel which means that the breech end piece will not fit over the barrel either. The shroud tube will but with no way to attach it at either end.
Titan Barrel - B19-7-01-100
Trail Barrel - BT9M22-01-100
Not the same. Not the same number, not the same barrel. Unscrew the shroud on your XL barrel, it attaches in exactly the same way as the Trail NP. The XL barrel is thicker as well as longer then the Trail but still thinner than the Titan barrel so the XL breech end piece won't fit a Titan barrel either. You need to pay attention to the part numbers because if the number is different the part is different. You noticed how many of the parts are EXACTLY the same? They're the same. The ones that are different are different.
There should be no problem using the Trail compression tube with your Titan stock, piston, ram and other parts.
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The walther falcon hunter is a re branded hatsan 125. Mine was sent to PA to have the xl gas spring installed. There is no way you will get near 40 ft lbs out of it. Maybe 30. I removed it after it failed and installed the original spring. It is more powerful than the nitro XL gas spring.
While you have your guns apart , may I suggest you install the brass washers or bearings in the barrel pivot. Pay attention to the actual fit. Do not spread the forks or compress them. I added the dimples to the washers to help hold lube. The surface inside the forks could use a little smoothing out.
Also I would check the spring ends , you might want to polish them. The spring guide and or the top hat sometimes needs to be shimmed [ I used aluminum from a can ] to insure a tight fit.
A little polishing on the alive jam helps. I smoothed the entire surface, particularly where it contacts the detent. I even shimmed mine for a tight fit [ Aluminum can material around it to take up any play ]. You could add another smaller spring inside the alive jam spring to help with lockup. Or shim the spring a little.
When people here said use molly in the compression tube modestly I still put too much. I have since learned better. Burnish it in then wipe out all excess. By little they do mean little.
I would recommend doing something to the trigger. Getting an aftermarket one as is the best idea.
The barrel should be cleaned. I like to redo the crown myself. Push a pellet down the barrel with a wooden dowel and make sure you don't have any tight spots. More than likely you will, right where the barrel was pressed into the breach block. You can live with it or take on the challenge of swagging the barrel. Search the forum for methods.
Adding buttons to the piston will make for smoother cocking but I'm not sure if it does anything else. I added them anyway.
Doing all this properly will ensure a smooth shooting gun. But it is easy to mess this all up with the optics. I'd get a one piece mount, installed properly, [ degrease everything and use blue Loctite. Put some in the rails where the mount clamps ] and a scope that will hold up to heavy recoil. I like Hawke scopes. Make sure the scope is near optical center. Adjusting it too far away can lead to poi shift. I would check this before you install the shroud in case you want-need to bend the barrel.
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I may not have mentioned that I did already complete the brass washer mod and installed a GRT-III Trigger. Now awaiting parts to arrive.
I attached a snip of the Trail NP barrel and it shows no threads at all. Take a look.
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I may not have mentioned that I did already complete the brass washer mod and installed a GRT-III Trigger. Now awaiting parts to arrive.
I attached a snip of the Trail NP barrel and it shows no threads at all. Take a look.
Good moves on the washers and GRT trigger.
I can look at the EVP or either one of us can go look at a Trail barrel. I've got a Trail, a spare barrel for it and an NP XL barrel. You've got an NP XL barrel assembly with shroud you can simply remove the shroud from and look for yourself. But bless your heart pal, I'll be interested to see how your shroud install goes.
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if it turns out I have to order a trail NP barrel then so be it. But you mean to tell me that crosman EVPs are not 100 percent correct and that they don't match the guns exactly? I thought it was generally accepted that the trail NP and the Titan in NP have the same gas spring. However, the trail on its parts list has the letter A at the end of the spring does that mean it's a completely different part?
also I could use some help as I noted in another thread with a barrel swap on a trail NP XL I picked up today I want to put the 22 barrel on it and take the 25 caliber barrel off. I'm having trouble with the link 10 under the barrel that connects the cocking lever to the barrel
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my point with showing the EVP was to explain why I assumed that the barrel for the trail NP non XL version was not threaded. if it is threaded then so be it.
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if it turns out I have to order a trail NP barrel then so be it. But you mean to tell me that crosman EVPs are not 100 percent correct and that they don't match the guns exactly? I thought it was generally accepted that the trail NP and the Titan in NP have the same gas spring. However, the trail on its parts list has the letter A at the end of the spring does that mean it's a completely different part?
They make revisions to parts and are sometimes lax about updating the EVP's. Most likely if you order the non-suffix part number gas ram they'll tell you it's superseded or just send you the new rev. part. So no, the EVP is not always 100% correct. I don't know if it's ever been corrected but either the Trail or Trail XL used to call for the wrong breech seal, as an example. It's highly unlikely but possible they DO spec a different ram for the Trail and Titan, maybe a different gas pressure. More likely they made some minor change, use the same in all applicable guns and didn't update all the EVP files.
In this case however the EVP's are correct, the Trail calls for the Trail barrel and the Titan calls for the Titan barrel.
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Crosman has their NP guns. They also have an NP SS series. That one is a shorter stroke and does not use the same gas strut.
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Wow, it took forever to get this done and I am still working actually. I'm about to bend the barrel on both my Titan GP and my NP XL today. But, here is what I found out.
The NP XL gas spring will NOT work in the Titan GP. Why? Because the body of the spring, not the rod, is too long and piston bottoms out on it before the sear can lock the piston. I tried it both forward and backward and it just won't cock.
I hated the dovetail rail on the Titan. It let scopes slide everywhere. The gun had started detonating and had damaged the piston seal. Crossman sent a new piston/seal assembly under warranty and I ordered some extra parts. I ordered a new compression tube that had a picatinny rail, the barrel for the Trail NP and it's shroud and sling mount, as well as new pivot bolt, sleeve, and other random parts that were very inexpensive.
Yesterday I received my second GRT-3 Trigger from Charlie Da Tuna and I finally got to put my gun back together. After it was all said and done I mounted the CP 3-9 x40mm AO scope that came with the Trail XL on the Titan and at 10 yds with the elevation maxed it is still shooting 3 inches low. So I am about to gently bend the barrel. If I get that one right I will do the same to the XL barrel.
Here are some pictures of the guns:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ICkoRN6SLss/VS_8uSiu_9I/AAAAAAAAMNA/7_fVdaMBSVI/w1044-h587-no/20150415_194711.jpg)
Here is the GP stock with the new tube and barrel assembly about to be installed:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--8yTyKf_RsU/VS_8uSVgAbI/AAAAAAAAMMg/_WDcaYS1eUc/w1044-h587-no/20150415_160729.jpg)
Close-up of the GP:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6X6ummMBgQY/VS_8ua2eGKI/AAAAAAAAMMg/M-RgobHFkF0/w1044-h587-no/20150415_194823.jpg)
A photo of my guns, ammo, and shooting gear:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-uubDPZ-vzek/VS_8udQs8XI/AAAAAAAAMNU/8qTd7zS2zcc/w1044-h587-no/20150415_194914.jpg)
I may order a more powerful gas spring to go in the Titan from one of the companies that makes them. I could get one the correct size and have it slightly stronger. The biggest limiting factor for increasing the power of the Titan GP is going to be the volume of the compression chamber. No matter how high of a pressure we compress the air to we retain the same volume. I believe that the size of the compression tube is more important than the power of the spring. I say this due to the light cocking effort on the NP2 but almost matches the NP XL for FPE. I would bet a stronger spring in the NP2 would bring it up to XL FPE but it would increase the cocking effort and harshen the shot cycle some. I may still do it. I want to go get that NP2 so bad. I may do it tomorrow or the next day....
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I may not have mentioned that I did already complete the brass washer mod and installed a GRT-III Trigger. Now awaiting parts to arrive.
I attached a snip of the Trail NP barrel and it shows no threads at all. Take a look.