GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => American/U.S. Air Gun Gates => Topic started by: PelletBait on February 28, 2015, 10:51:59 PM
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... usually found in any trash can waiting for a second life.
I've used AAA batteries for seating .177 pellets and AA for .22's the past several years but just
recently posted this suggestion on another forum. The battery nodes seat the pellet enough
to give a good seal while spreading the skirt. I have noticed a more consistent target grouping
since pressing the pellet further into the chamber. Sure I could have bought a genuine pellet
seater, but these batteries were recovered at no cost. Since I'm on seniors subsidized entitlement
checks, I have to be frugal with my expenses.
Woops, disclaimer : should have stated only intended for break barrels not fixed.
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Although using old batteries to seat pellets is economical and may work well with a break barrel, I don't think the technique would work with a fixed barrel. To that end I made use of an old toothbrush and a very short piece of solid number then copper wire.
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A thumb or finger tip is the best tool. If you have a Diana barrel cocker you may need to 'sweep' the top side of a fingernail across the skirt to get it seated fully.
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I made one from a small clevis pin, a short bolt, and a cap nut. Works great for .177, and.22. I think it cost around a dollar to make.
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Hulo "Pellet Bait",
I'm a deep ignorant in airgun shooting and a genuine newbie in that forum, but I'm really interested in what you're talking about. Some months ago I bought, among other items, a box of JSB Exact pellets from a Czech reseller and I discovered, when I received them, that a mere quarter of them had their skirt deformed. Those pellets ain't the cheapest ones, so I decided I wouldn't throw them away but try to give them back a decent shape. For this I tried a large number of pointball pens ends, and I eventually succeeded (nice shots) , but I just can't remember now WHICH was the ballpoint pen I chose!...
Then I discovered your post but, and although I read news and other things in english every day, I'm basically french and can easily misinterpret what you said. So please just tell me : d'you think you can properly reshape a pellet skirt this way ? I tried it and it looks OK (have a good moment watching the pic here attached).
regards,
Yves
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I purchased for containers of jab exact 16g and about
%35 percent of them had bad skirts I was going to throw them away but I'm a cheapskate so I figured why not straighten them out. what I did was I used the head of one of the bad pellet I stuck it in the skirt Of one of the bad skirt pellets twisted it until the skirt got its form back and it work perfect for me just time consuming and a little tedious.
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Hello Yves
I press the pellet into the rifles chamber then press in further using one of the batteries. Would seem easier to reform once in the rifles chamber. Pressing your deformed pellets into the chamber would reform a little then forcing in further would give a good seal.
I apologize I can't type in French but I found a translation URL
Je appuie sur le culot dans la chambre des fusils puis appuyez utilisant en outre l'une des batteries . Semble plus facile de réformer une fois dans la chambre des fusils . En appuyant sur vos pastilles déformées dans la chambre serait un peu réformer forçant alors plus en donnerait une bonne étanchéité .
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Ouch ! I feel a bit ridiculous. I pretend using english and I just didn't know what "pellet seater" meant, I thought it was some device that could reform them. Actually I have only pumpers the chamber of which can't be accessed. I also have a low end Gamo for kids but if I push a pellet too hard in it, it will just stay stuck in the barrel !
Anyway, your idea using the positive pole of a AAA battery is great, thanks.
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Bonjour Yves ,
Se il vous plaît ne vous sentez pas ridicule un terme familier pour vous . Triste de lire que tant de vos boulettes coûteux ont été déformées . Je suppose que vous montrez sur la photo serait aider à réformer les pellets .
Je espère que vous gardez revenir ici pour partager certaines de vos expériences des fusils à air en France .
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Hello Pellet Bait,
Don't worry, I felt ridiculous for a short while ;). As for the pellets, I was patient enough to reform all the damaged ones with my ballpoint pen trick (actually, you don't have to use the ballpoint but only the end of the pen, a sharp one, once the ball point hidden) and you know what : I think they shot better than the stock ones !
I'm not representative of the average french airgunner : there are lots of experts hereabout, too, but it's not as easy on their forum as on this marvelous GTA one to get infos or advices. The "top shooters" are less prone to mix with the "amateurs"... So I surely won't quit GTA so soon !
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From old literature: In a spring piston airgun the pellet must remain in place at the breech taper until sufficient pressure builds to release/accelerate it toward the muzzle. Seating them past this point may reduce velocity and accuracy.
http://www.arld1.com/images/swfs/pistonpelletdynamics.swf (http://www.arld1.com/images/swfs/pistonpelletdynamics.swf)
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Hi Terry
A while back, when I owned a Nitrogen Piston thingy, I tried both ways - pushing the pellet as far as it would go using my finger; and I also used this pellet seating tool. ;)
I didn't seem to make a difference in accuracy.
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From old literature: In a spring piston airgun the pellet must remain in place at the breech taper until sufficient pressure builds to release/accelerate it toward the muzzle. Seating them past this point may reduce velocity and accuracy.
http://www.arld1.com/images/swfs/pistonpelletdynamics.swf (http://www.arld1.com/images/swfs/pistonpelletdynamics.swf)
Absolutely exact and thank you for that nicely documented info. Bought some "Gamo Match" pellets some months ago, and could hardly insert them in the barrel of any of my rifles. Jammed one in the only "spring piston" I have, a low powered Gamo Delta Fox for kids I barely use : once seated, I suppose it felt at ease there 'cause it just wouldn't move... I had to push it backwards with a rod.
As for the way I reform pellet skirts, I never had any problem with it. I suppose it increases the skirt diameter of the pellet in such a moderate proportion -if it actually does- that it can't make it jam.
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Hi Terry
A while back, when I owned a Nitrogen Piston thingy, I tried both ways - pushing the pellet as far as it would go using my finger; and I also used this pellet seating tool. ;)
I didn't seem to make a difference in accuracy.
Yeah. Guess I shoulda said, "can change the POI."
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Some of the gadgets you guys put together are cool. I use a wooden golf tee with the tip shaped for the particular gun/pellet combo. I got a hundred of them for a couple of bucks.
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Tried this battery idea on my .22 cal Diana 34, and won't do that again. She detonated every time. The seating must deform the skirt or do something that allows air to get past. Thankfully no damage.
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if you deep seated a pellet, and, the gun detonated, you didn't have enough back pressure to keep it from doing so. the same scenario can occur with a pellet that is too light for the power that the gun is capable of.
same as if your gun is dieseling heavily, to the point of detonating, you use a heavier pellet to keep the piston from accelerating as quickly. this keeps the temperature inside the compression tube lower, thereby preventing detonation.
make sense?
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Makes sense to me to just not do it again ;)
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I know an old thread but I just started using the tip of the pellgun oil bottle and it works perfect for 177. Should be free since almost all here will have this or the silicon chamber oil in the same size bottle from crossman.
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While I have an original Beeman Pellseat, I think the old stereo plugs work better.
If you look around the house you wilkl find one:
(http://i1356.photobucket.com/albums/q733/barnydaddy/5436354558a68d09038ace909eee6bb9_zpsy1uri5an.jpg)
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Tried all the 'seating tools' (have a small collection) and found them more trouble than they were worth. For years have used only the tip of a finger and if not flush with the breech, use a sweep with the back/top (where the polish is applied) of my pointer/index finger to smooth the skirt. If this doesn't work, the brand or model of the pellet gets changed or the breech leade gets reamed or that gun gets less attention and maybe passed on. Why would anyone want a loading hassle, that requires a 'tool', with every shot?
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" For years have used only the tip of a finger and if not flush with the breech, use a sweep with the back/top (where the polish is applied) "
I KNEW IT ::).
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Tried all the 'seating tools' (have a small collection) and found them more trouble than they were worth. For years have used only the tip of a finger and if not flush with the breech, use a sweep with the back/top (where the polish is applied) of my pointer/index finger to smooth the skirt. If this doesn't work, the brand or model of the pellet gets changed or the breech leade gets reamed or that gun gets less attention and maybe passed on. Why would anyone want a loading hassle, that requires a 'tool', with every shot?
Same here. They seem to give the best results on lower powered guns, but even then they don't work with all pellet types. Even where I can see a difference, that difference will be so subtle that it won't necessarily clearly support using the tool. It depends on how much patience I have at any given moment.
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" For years have used only the tip of a finger and if not flush with the breech, use a sweep with the back/top (where the polish is applied) "
I KNEW IT ::).
Strictly a descriptive phrase. Don't use make-up, lipstick or nail polish! Unless you count pedicures. ;)
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From old literature: In a spring piston airgun the pellet must remain in place at the breech taper until sufficient pressure builds to release/accelerate it toward the muzzle. Seating them past this point may reduce velocity and accuracy.
http://www.arld1.com/images/swfs/pistonpelletdynamics.swf (http://www.arld1.com/images/swfs/pistonpelletdynamics.swf)
Thanks fer the link, it was informative. I am a newbie and I put mine in flush with the break barrel, but some go in further. 1/8 inch. I wonder how far in people here mean when the say they seat it in more then flush.
tnx again for the post
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While I have an original Beeman Pellseat, I think the old stereo plugs work better.
If you look around the house you wilkl find one:
(http://i1356.photobucket.com/albums/q733/barnydaddy/5436354558a68d09038ace909eee6bb9_zpsy1uri5an.jpg)
Heyyyyy.
I got a couple of those.
THANKS
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I found some mre today.
They are perfect and look good, too! ;)
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if you deep seated a pellet, and, the gun detonated, you didn't have enough back pressure to keep it from doing so. the same scenario can occur with a pellet that is too light for the power that the gun is capable of.
same as if your gun is dieseling heavily, to the point of detonating, you use a heavier pellet to keep the piston from accelerating as quickly. this keeps the temperature inside the compression tube lower, thereby preventing detonation.
make sense?
No. I'm not getting it.
Back pressure is the pressure between the piston and the pellet, yes? So if the pellet is seated too far, or is too light, the pressure doesn't build up as much as it needs to? Why does that make it detonate? I would think detonation would be caused by higher, not lower, pressure...
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if you deep seated a pellet, and, the gun detonated, you didn't have enough back pressure to keep it from doing so. the same scenario can occur with a pellet that is too light for the power that the gun is capable of.
same as if your gun is dieseling heavily, to the point of detonating, you use a heavier pellet to keep the piston from accelerating as quickly. this keeps the temperature inside the compression tube lower, thereby preventing detonation.
make sense?
No. I'm not getting it.
Back pressure is the pressure between the piston and the pellet, yes? So if the pellet is seated too far, or is too light, the pressure doesn't build up as much as it needs to? Why does that make it detonate? I would think detonation would be caused by higher, not lower, pressure...
I gotta rethink that whole concept as well. If the pellet is seat flush the air is compressed more in the first micro seconds and the more it compresses the better chance of detonation. I have a Fire Piston and it works by maintaing a near air tight seal and compressing the piston in the chamber, igniting the tinder. Mr Diesel Knew about these devices as he saw them demonstrated. They were quickly supplanted by stick matches. Safety matches were newly developed and worked so well people stopped using steel/flint, and firepistons never took root. They are very cool, I feel the work best with true tinder fungus, vs char cloth. Once you get the hang of it, they work flawlessly, but the new cerium rods are still easier.
So if adding a weightier pellet to the mix it should diesel more not less. Seating the pellet deeper and a lighter pellet should give you less ignitions.
weird science
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I didn't know or think about using something to seat a pellet inside the breach of a break barrel. Though you push the pellet in with your finger. There is still a good chance that the o-ring could get chewed up when you close the breach. Using a tool of some kind to recess the pellet inside the barrel just a little bit could save that seal. But also as mentioned you don't want to push it to far either. Though I do have a few old batteries feel that it might insert the pellet to much. So the next time I go to the shooting range I will try one of the few audio adapters I have laying around. Thanks for the info.
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I don't think it's so much an issue of chewing up the breech seal as mangling the pellet. Most break barrels have the seal in the breech face, so a protruding skirt would only wipe against the metal around the transfer port. Not all, though - I have a Gamo with the seal around the transfer port. In that case, yes, there is the potential for a protruding pellet to damage the seal.
I read somewhere that pellets should be seated no more than 0.050" past flush with the breech face. (I wish I could find the link.) I'm guessing that the tapered nose of a 1/4" phone plug is probably somewhere in that realm. My seating tools are adjustable (see photo above). I made a feeler gauge from a scrap that fortuitously measured 0.048", and if the pellet wobbles around on the tool's probe (with gauge) then it will seat too deep.
But, like I said before, that's adding another step to an already fiddly process. Sometimes I have the patience and sometimes not.
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Are those pellet pens any good?
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Rick Euster swears by them. He always has one hanging around his neck when doing his TV shows.
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Rick Euster swears by them. He always has one hanging around his neck when doing his TV shows.
Thanks, I wanted one for hunting so I can load faster.
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I like the audio connector better than the ball bearing and ball end door hinge pin I have used. The ball bearing is slippery and tends to roll away and hide. The hinge pin is easier to handle but heavy. Being steel, both have the risk of damaging the barrel. Ideally the seater should be of a material softer than steel but harder than the pellet. Brass is a good choice and that audio connector appears to be brass.
I found I have one. Its .25 inch diameter so should work for .22 and smaller pellets.
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Gifford,
Since I made that suggestion I have found four of them in the house.
I keep them in my range box for when someone needs them.
I have a Beeman PellSeat.
But, I strickly PCP for 2016.
I shoot at Diablo (Concord, CA), Sacramento (Ione, CA) and Yolo (Winters, CA).
If anyone needs one let me know....
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This battery idea sounds good to me. I'm going to try it on my springers. However, I can see how this would not make Rube Goldberg fans happy.
BE SAFE
HAVE FUN
CHEERS
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I ended up getting a Air Venturi 18 shot pellet pen for 10CAD.