GTA

All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: thx997303 on February 13, 2015, 07:07:50 PM

Title: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: thx997303 on February 13, 2015, 07:07:50 PM
Hey Mike, I just got my FDPCP, shot it a few times, and it's awesome.

But, Friday the 13th got me. Apparently I have a leak in the wall of the air tube. Didn't realize until I felt the air leaking out after a shot.

Here's a picture of the defect. Only posting it here because it's a bit after hours for you.

(http://i312.photobucket.com/albums/ll331/thx997303/Dodge%20Dakota/20150213_155117_zpsft0eraup.jpg)

I know your regular warranty doesn't apply to these, so if I need to pay you for a new one, just let me know how much.

Like I said, otherwise I'm loving this FDPCP. It's a great looking, feeling, balanced, and shooting air gun. And the pump is top notch from what I can see.

Thanks Mike.
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: StevenG on February 13, 2015, 07:27:17 PM
That looks like a scratch in the paint. The airtube is a metal tube, I doubt that leaks. If the airtube leaked all the air would leak out. Are you sure it Is not the screw holding that valve?
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: thx997303 on February 13, 2015, 08:06:12 PM
Yep, it's leaking right there. You'll notice if you look close, that there's a tear drop shaped hole about 3/4 of the way up the scratch
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: StevenG on February 13, 2015, 08:13:32 PM
Sorry on my phone. So how does it hold air? Or does it constantly leak?
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: Motorhead on February 13, 2015, 08:22:07 PM
Yikes !!!

Not placing blame anywhere ... BUT, could see that happening from over pressurizing tank ???
Anywho ... even at 1500# a tear in the metal like that could be catastrophic if it let loose.
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: Gertrude on February 13, 2015, 08:33:09 PM
jeramiah,
Could you take a better/clearer pic and post it ? maybe a little more close up ?

That seems very strange to be a "hole" yet you still being able to maintain enough pressure to fire the gun.
Is it a visiable Hole or is it a Crack ?  and how many shots were you able to fire before noticing it ?
chave you tried soapy water on it anywhere to see if that is the ONLY place, it may be leaking from ?
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: vigilandy on February 13, 2015, 08:41:46 PM
More details please!  Is your tube completely smooth or can you feel any irregularities in the tube? Did the leak start after your last shot (and continue leaking)?   I'm thinking with a hole like that you won't be filling the tube anytime soon. 

More details appreciated. I love my FDPCP and am looking to get another...
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: thx997303 on February 13, 2015, 09:16:04 PM
I can feel the hole in the tuBe.  Seems to be creased along it, where it looks like a scratch.  I put soapy water on that spot only, but it's definitely leaking right there.

I only filled it to 1500 psi,  which UCChris can attest to, since he was there when I got it. 
i shot it about five times.  It wasn't for accuracy, so I didn't notice the likely vertical stringing. 

And it seems to leak fairly constantly, but it's a pin hole really.  It probably would take at least ten minutes to bleed off. 

I'll try to take a better picture later, but the auto focus was messing with me earlier.
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: thx997303 on February 13, 2015, 09:39:05 PM
To make sure it's mentioned,  I don't think this is in any way mikes fault. it probably want leaking when he tested it. 
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: mikeiniowa on February 14, 2015, 12:11:52 AM
please send either the tube or the entire rifle back ..do not fill it again....Mike
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: UCChris on February 14, 2015, 12:56:53 AM
I happened to be with Jeremy when he unboxed the rifle and filled it. He only filled to 1500, and yes, there is a pinhole there.

Sounds like Mike has it all under control!
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: thx997303 on February 14, 2015, 01:10:52 AM
Ok, I'll send the tube back on Monday.

Thanks Mike.
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: thx997303 on February 17, 2015, 04:27:52 PM
The tube went into the mail today. Should see it soon Mike.
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: mikeiniowa on February 17, 2015, 08:19:43 PM
Thank you, will send a new one out as soon as it gets here, heads are gonna roll on this one...
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: Gertrude on February 18, 2015, 04:16:36 PM
MAAaaann ohhh MAN !

 I sure would hate to be Mikes tubing supplier right now!
 I've got a feeling that defective tube is going to find a new place to reside where there in no sunlight.  :o

Glad nobody got hurt.
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: mikeiniowa on February 18, 2015, 05:40:16 PM
you ain't the only that's glad no body got hurt
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: thx997303 on February 18, 2015, 08:40:15 PM
I'm sure glad it didn't fail.  I'm sure UCChris is too.
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: UCChris on February 18, 2015, 10:13:22 PM
I've got a feeling that defective tube is going to find a new place to reside where there in no sunlight.

Lol. I'd hate to be on the wrong side of an angry Mike Melick!

I'm sure glad it didn't fail.  I'm sure UCChris is too.

I am certainly glad. I've seen HPA fail, and it isn't "gentle".
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: thx997303 on February 19, 2015, 12:22:03 AM
No, even 1500 psi letting go is definitely not gentle.
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: thx997303 on February 23, 2015, 08:35:34 PM
Tracking number says Mike got the tube, so now I'm eagerly awaiting the new one.  I'm pretty excited.
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: Pappy on February 23, 2015, 10:22:18 PM
Always wondered if anyone in PCP ever had a bad experience with their tanks, cylinders or bottles.  I don't even want to think what could happen.  One thing I saw from pics of the 2015 Shot Show, was Air Force Talons, I think with their bottle in the back.  Your cheek weld is actually on the bottle!  doesn't that concern anyone else other than this old woos?  So far, in 2 years, I have not seen or heard of any catastrophic event on the PCP side of air gunning.  Hopefully, it stays that way.


Pappy
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: thx997303 on February 24, 2015, 12:50:19 AM
I look at it like this.  Yes, there are dangers, but I shoot guns, climb rock walls, practice full contact martial arts, ride motorcycles, drive built 4x4s over boulders, and all kinds of dangerous things. 

Yes,  HP containers can fail, but it's just part of life.
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: mikeiniowa on February 24, 2015, 07:24:17 AM
new tube on the way, there is a very small pin hole in it, thank heaven you caught it. Even looking inside the tube there is really no sign other than a darker spot that it might have a problem...will be looking at the tubes much closer...supplier has been told to make sure no more leaks...
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: rsterne on February 24, 2015, 01:14:40 PM
I'd love to see that tube cut in half, both sides of the "pin-hole", to see what the wall thickness is in the adjacent area.... Is the hole on a welded seam, or is it seamless tubing?.... In the original photo of the hole there is a longitudinal scratch or crack running right through the hole, and I'm wondering if that is a seam about to give way.... If you measure the OD of the tube at that location, compared to 90* to that, is it round, or larger across where the scratch/crack/pinhole is, indicating the tube expanded towards that feature?.... Scary stuff, in any case....

Bob
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: vigilandy on February 24, 2015, 07:47:04 PM
I'd love to see that tube cut in half, both sides of the "pin-hole", to see what the wall thickness is in the adjacent area.... Is the hole on a welded seam, or is it seamless tubing?.... In the original photo of the hole there is a longitudinal scratch or crack running right through the hole, and I'm wondering if that is a seam about to give way.... If you measure the OD of the tube at that location, compared to 90* to that, is it round, or larger across where the scratch/crack/pinhole is, indicating the tube expanded towards that feature?.... Scary stuff, in any case....

Bob

Bob-- just speaking for myself, but my FDPCP has a similar longitudinal scratch, but it's from resting it on various objects while shooting.  Mine is a fair bit older and has gotten much more use though!  Then again... the paranoid part of me wants to leave work right now to verify that it is just a scratch and nothing more serious.   :P
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: mikeiniowa on February 24, 2015, 08:23:54 PM
no swelling, just a defect in the mfring process, pin hole right through
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: lillysdad621 on February 26, 2015, 07:53:31 AM
Lol. I'd hate to be on the wrong side of an angry Mike Melick!

+1. I can only imagine Mike yelling at the manufacturer for the oversight, in Mandarin! But as always , he is got his customer's back. We should have an archive of all the times Mike has come through for us... Thank you Mike.
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: UCChris on February 26, 2015, 10:14:01 AM
There isn't enough bandwidth to archive all of that!
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: Pappy on February 26, 2015, 11:37:25 AM
Not to disparage Chinese product .... but about 10 years ago I worked with quality control for a Chinese manufacturer that we used.  We sent one of our guys over there for 3 months at a time, to monitor quality control.  We found that, yes, you can get an excellent quality product out of China, but you have to have someone from the U.S. over there monitoring them at all times .... essentially whipping them with a stick, every day, to assure they produce quality product.  Something like a vessel that will be under extreme pressure, should probably be x-rayed as it comes off the line.  This would make sure there is consistency of the weld, seam, or wall thickness of the tube or vessel.  Of course, doing this, would drive up the cost, and defeat the purpose.  Not Mike's fault if a defective part gets through periodically.


Pappy
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: rsterne on February 26, 2015, 01:11:04 PM
As I understand it, Mike is replacing the tubes on the XS-60c with a heavier wall tube he purchases and has threaded in the USA to create the FD-PCP.... Unless I am mistaken, there is no Chinese involvement in this particular failure, as the conversion to the FD-PCP is Mike's concept and execution.... Mike, please correct me if I am wrong....

Bob
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: thx997303 on February 26, 2015, 04:32:31 PM
Well, I got my air tube, and the rifle is shooting great with no leaks.

Thanks Mike.
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: Pappy on February 26, 2015, 06:16:31 PM
As I understand it, Mike is replacing the tubes on the XS-60c with a heavier wall tube he purchases and has threaded in the USA to create the FD-PCP.... Unless I am mistaken, there is no Chinese involvement in this particular failure, as the conversion to the FD-PCP is Mike's concept and execution.... Mike, please correct me if I am wrong....

Bob

Sorry, just assumed that all Flying Dragon Product was outsourced.  The post about Chinese product was just an fyi response, not directed at any particular product or company.


Pappy
Title: Re: Friday the 13th, manufacturing defect.
Post by: mikeiniowa on February 26, 2015, 07:36:41 PM
yup a USA made product failed...I am working on getting the tubes made at the factory in Deqing to save some money...will have to see if they make the grade...