GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Brock3798 on February 12, 2015, 11:41:36 PM
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I know absolutely nothing about what I need to fill a talonp the next pcp I will be getting I want to start using a scuba tank because I am getting tired of pumping but I don't want adapters and what not to buy I am looking at an 80 cu ft k value tank and what else do I need to fill a talonp ? Links would be nice sorry guys !
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Hi Brock
I don't know what fittings you will need.
I have a question how many psi tank are you looking at?
I would recommend a 4500psi scba tank more max fills
Before you buy any tank make sure you find a place to fill it.
Hopefully somone will chime in with more info for you.
Dave
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I'm looking into getting a scuba tank as well and would like to find a place close (southern Ohio) to fill it. What set up would I need to fill a disco and a marauder?
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If you go with a SCBA you'll need something similar to this. There are some different variations out there also.
Jimmy
(http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l540/kingji01/Air%20Tank%20Set-ups/image_zps0f538e1a.jpg) (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/kingji01/media/Air%20Tank%20Set-ups/image_zps0f538e1a.jpg.html)
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Theres a dive shop up at lake eire port Clinton area and I go up to the lake often and there's a paintball place it's called splatter park about 20 minutes away from me !
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Hey Brock, where's that spatter park, Marion?
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http://www.airtanksforsale.com/ (http://www.airtanksforsale.com/) Email Joe, or call. He'll advise you on what valve set up you'll need...
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Try this site to see how many fill you get out of the tank you are looking at.
http://www.calc.sikes.us/2/index.php (http://www.calc.sikes.us/2/index.php)
Steve
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Hi Brock
I would recommend a 4500psi scba tank more max fills
Before you buy any tank make sure you find a place to fill it.
Dave
x2!! SCBA tanks are typically filled to 3k psi. You'll get more fills from a 4500 psi tank. Also, most dive shops (but especially paintball shops) are notorious for not filling to 4500 psi. I presume (read: hope) that this is because they can't physically fill to 4500 psi. SCBA tanks are relatively cheap used, are cheap to hydro, and will service you well.
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as was already said,i would stay away from 3000ish psi scuba,
you wont get nearly as many fills compared to a 4500psi scba
it wouldnt be fun to buy a scuba tank and fittings/adapters,
and then realize you dont get many fills out of it and in turn have to buy a 4500 scba anyway.
buy once cry once ;D
also,
look to local fire departments for filling scba,
mine fills my tank for free :D
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as was already said,i would stay away from 3000ish psi scuba,
you wont get nearly as many fills compared to a 4500psi scba
it wouldnt be fun to buy a scuba tank and fittings/adapters,
and then realize you dont get many fills out of it and in turn have to buy a 4500 scba anyway.
buy once cry once ;D
also,
look to local fire departments for filling scba,
mine fills my tank for free :D
^x2! very very true about "buy once, cry once"... BUT!! I do have to play devil's advocate, and say, if 3k is all you have (for now), and you have a place to fill, I'd say go for it, just to get you shooting. BUT, if you can wait, save up some more cash and get a 4500 tank, after making sure you have a place to fill. OR! you wait for a little while longer, and just get yourself a compressor too!! That way, you fill your own tanks!
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Theres fire department here in town but what am I looking at price wise with everything I meed to fill an airforce gun ?
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really, it depends on what route you take. Check out that air tanks for sale site. It'll give you an idea. Joe's got K valves for SCBA tanks on there. Not sure, as I bought a Great White, w/ full kit, and a freedom 8 all in one go. Refills for days! ;D
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Go to the bottom of Joe's page http://www.airtanksforsale.com/ (http://www.airtanksforsale.com/) and read how to Cascade fill using scuba tanks. Yes, one scuba tank won't do, but if you buy 'two' scuba tanks and 'Cascade' fill, you can get about 10 to 12 fills. ;)
You actually need to check and see if you have a 4500psi filling station available before buying, cause a 4500psi tank you can't fill is worthless!
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I have a CondorSS, a scuba tank, and as of this week, a great white tank. When I have had the scuba tank filled to "3000" psi, I find when I get home that it is really at about 2700 or so. The gas heats up and occupies more space when filling occurs. It is kinda tough to fill the Condor with only 2700 psi. It does help the number of pumps it takes to get it back up to where you want though.
There is a website http://www.airfillstations.com/ (http://www.airfillstations.com/) that will show where to get your tanks filled. The info on there is not 100% accurate though. Make sure to call ahead and verify that you can get whatever tank you plan to have filled serviced at that location. I spoke with the paintball place near my house and they said that they would fill to 4500 for me. I did not make sure to ask about filling the great white tank though. The bigger tanks might pose a problem for some places. I sure hope not. I will be down there tomorrow seeing if I can get it filled.
Good advice that I might not have heeded:
- Scuba is great for a Discovery 2000 fill, might not be so good for a 3000 fill
- Check into the resources available before you buy
- Check the hydro date and expiration date if the tank is carbon fiber
- When your tank if filled, ask if you can get it topped off before you take it home. Maybe leave it overnight and let things cool down before the final volume is filled. I have heard that it can make up to an 800 psi difference. Even leaving it there for a few hours from the first fill, go run some errands or whatever, and have them top it off will help (so I have heard).
Good luck with your plan.
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These are the items I use. I get three 3000 psi fills starting from 2100 psi res pressure (3200 psi calibrated tank fill pressure) and ALOT of partial fills.
Cyl-tec 80cf aluminum tank
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00H7H120G/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00H7H120G/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Scuba to pcp fill station
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GB1GXYY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GB1GXYY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Extension hose (4500psi)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DUMIAXE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DUMIAXE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
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I sold my condor, but my condor suffered valve lock at 3000psi, so my sweet spot was 2800psi fills. You can buy 2 used scuba tanks for a lot less than a 4500. If you buy used, do the research on how to read the dates stamped onto scuba tanks as they expire just like the 4500.
BTW the scuba shop filled my scuba tanks to 3200psi cold, so I believe i got a good 3000psi fill, sure the tank gets warm, no big deal.
If you're on a low budget, used scuba tanks and cascade filling is the way to go, I had no trouble selling my used condor and 2 used scuba tanks. Reading the hydro date on scuba tanks: http://www.scuba-tutor.com/diving-equipment/tanks/hydro-date.php (http://www.scuba-tutor.com/diving-equipment/tanks/hydro-date.php)
http://www.scubagonewild.com/documents/scubatankmarkings.html (http://www.scubagonewild.com/documents/scubatankmarkings.html)
http://www.scubadiving.com/scuba-tank-markings-what-do-they-all-mean (http://www.scubadiving.com/scuba-tank-markings-what-do-they-all-mean)
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I sold my condor, but my condor suffered valve lock at 3000psi, so my sweet spot was 2800psi fills. You can buy 2 used scuba tanks for a lot less than a 4500. If you buy used, do the research on how to read the dates stamped onto scuba tanks as they expire just like the 4500.
BTW the scuba shop filled my scuba tanks to 3200psi cold, so I believe i got a good 3000psi fill, sure the tank gets warm, no big deal.
If you're on a low budget, used scuba tanks and cascade filling is the way to go, I had no trouble selling my used condor and 2 used scuba tanks. Reading the hydro date on scuba tanks: http://www.scuba-tutor.com/diving-equipment/tanks/hydro-date.php (http://www.scuba-tutor.com/diving-equipment/tanks/hydro-date.php)
http://www.scubagonewild.com/documents/scubatankmarkings.html (http://www.scubagonewild.com/documents/scubatankmarkings.html)
http://www.scubadiving.com/scuba-tank-markings-what-do-they-all-mean (http://www.scubadiving.com/scuba-tank-markings-what-do-they-all-mean)
Hey was your condor the pre 2013 model or post 2013 model. Ive had my res filled to 3000 via calibrated gauge and had absolutely no valve lock. I'm just curious if this is common or not. Btw, thank you for the info.
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Bought mine in 07 so it's pre 2013. Seems that has been fixed. :P
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Gosh ?! The great white it almost $800 ?!?? I mean if that is the best tank and will get me the most fills that's what I will buy but how long will a tank like that last me I mean if I am gonna spend that much money how many years will I get out of it ? Does anyone know the number of fills to a condor tank I would get from the great white and if I buy the great white do I need and adaptors or anything like that ?
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Officially, carbon fiber wrapped tanks last 15 years, so that's what I'll tell you. That's as long as you take care of them, of course. If you get the Great White w/option 2a, you're ready to use it, nothing else needed. Okay- so, here it is, for the Great White:
Tank Capacity: .............................88 cu ft (I know, the G.W. says 97 cu ft... its a pressure thing)
Tank Pressure: .............................4500 psi
Fill airgun to: ...............................3000 psi
Refill at: ......................................1950 psi ( I just picked this number to give an idea of fills)
Tank Reservoir size: ......................490 cc
A Great White will fill your gun 23 times... a 80 cu ft 3,000 psi tank will fill your gun 0 times.
Go to: http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/Tanks/FillCalc.html (http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/Tanks/FillCalc.html) once you figure out how low you're going to shoot your tank, and what you're going to fill up to. These numbers were just put in there to give an idea.
To look at this another way... if you get say... 50 shots from shooting from 3k psi down to 1950 psi, and your Great White gives you 23 refills... that's 1,150 shots. so a little over two full tins of pellets. Again, these are just to give an idea...
Also keep in mind: 80 cu ft tank at 3,000 psi will give you ZERO refills.
It's a lot of money up front, BUT... an $800 tank is only $53 bucks a year, for 15 years. If you're also getting a compressor so that you don't have to worry about going somewhere to get filled... that's even better...
Consider: driving to and from the refill place, plus the amount it costs for refills in a given year, plus the $53/year for the tank... I would just as soon get a compressor set up at the same time as the tank and be done w/it... High initial cost, YES. But over time, will pay for itself. I bought all my stuff a year ago, and w/the amount of money saved in filling the tank, all the equipment will have paid for itself in another month or so...
I bought:
1st stage compressor: .................... $240
Freedom 8 compressor: .................. $1,150
Great White w/ package 2A: ............ $800
Grand Total: .................................. $2,190
There's other compressor options out there too! You don't have to go w/the shoebox...
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but another thing to consider,
most never run their condor at 3000psi unless shooting cast bullets.
the condors seem to shoot best shot strings with pellets with the power wheel all the way down and a 2500-2700psi fill,
so even more fills would be had out of a great white.
calculated with the aoa calculator filling to 2600 and refilling at 1900 you would get 45 fills.
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Check here: http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/Tanks/FillCalc.html (http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/Tanks/FillCalc.html)
From 2000 to 3000 it will fill the condor about 30 times. If you go 2200-2800 it is about 54 times. All depends on what your preferences are.
The tank is good for five years from purchase date, then needs to be hydrotested. Cost varies, but here it is $40. Good for another 5 years. 15 year total lifespan before it cannot be refilled commercially. I know guys that use their own compressor to fill them beyond the expiration date. That's your choice of risk though.
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Brock, you are getting lots of good info.
However, budget minded people like me suggest another alternative. A STEEL scuba tank can be filled to 3441psi. Mine gets filled to 3700 and when it cools ends up with 3400psi. I can fill my .25 Marauder (2600-1800) at a lower tune approx 40 fills. (40 fills times 30 shots equals 1200 pellets) Your prospective gun should work the same. You won't need to fill at 3000 unless you are wanting max power for bigger game hunting.
A used STEEL tank is what you want. SCUBA places will fill and they are closer to you. It is hard to find a 4500psi fill in your area. I know, I tried. The fire dept did it but it's a pain.
Got my fittings from Joe B. And although not cheap, they are first class quality.
To answer the big question, I bought a used STEEL tank and fill adapter for $200.
Hope this helps.
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What's a 1st stage compressor sorry I don't know much about this ;D
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I think I might just save my money and buy a shoebox and two airforce tanks I mean I don't know how many shots you get out of them 30 to 70 I would say so while I am shooting charge the other one ! Said it takes 33 minutes to fill one and then eventually might buy the great white if money comes along would this work? I mean I still have a hand pump when I need it
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What's a 1st stage compressor sorry I don't know much about this ;D
Shoebox compressors need 85 to 120 psi to feed them to get up to 3000 or 4500psi. Up the price and you do not need them BUT the price goes up.
Steve
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Honestly a big 4500 tank is the best way. Most of us have spent the money. A new 4500 scba carbon fiber tank has a 15 year lifespan. Hydro at 5, 10, and condemn at 15. It's not cheap but air is th e life blood of pcp. Pump... or pay not to.
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I have a scuba tank that I got last year. It was kinda cool filling the gun the first couple of times, and then helping out with the pumping for the next few times. I received a CF great white tank last week I had it filled this weekend. Seems like I am cheating now not using the pump. About 10 second to fill the gun as slowly as I can. It used to take about 150 pumps or so to fill the Condor. I didn't mind the workout, but each night I filled it several times, my neck would be all knotted up. I really think it is a good investment. A new gun woulda been more fun though, I do have to admit.