GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Bargain Gate => Topic started by: erikblank on January 25, 2015, 04:39:10 PM
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Precision Airguns has Lothar Walther Barrels .22caliber - 14 3/8" - 12mm, .22caliber - 15" - 14mm - Threaded 1/2" UNF and .177caliber - 19" - 12mm, in stock from $21.95 to $24.95. Here's the link, www.precisionairgunsandsupplies.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=matchgradebarrels (http://www.precisionairgunsandsupplies.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=matchgradebarrels) . These would be great for someones project.
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I bought several 19" .177s - Thanks
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It actually does not say L.W. ???
just German match grade...
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but my 25 year old son ordered one earlier for me and said happy early B-day... quite the happy surprise.
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Their blog says they are LW.
http://jimfromprecisionairguns.blogspot.com/ (http://jimfromprecisionairguns.blogspot.com/)
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Now I am really happy with my son... I do deserve it, he got a few things (guitars amps etc...)for early B-day...
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I wouldn't lie to you.
I know there's a bunch of guys on here, just beggin to put these to good use. At this price I wish, I had use for one or two.
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I could use a .177 and a .22. Need to sell something first. I'm broke.
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Christmas killed me this year, so I feel you. Things are looking up up though, I just got a raise this year. I've had 3 pay cuts in the last 7 years, so I'm really jacked. An other thing that's great is, I'm so use to being poor, that with this raise, I'll have my credit cards paid off and own a new Daystate, in the next 3 months. I won't even have to change my living style to do it.
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What would need to be done to make these barrels fit a Marauder or a Prod?
Thanks.
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Typically if you buy a barrel to fit to an arbitrary rifle, you get a barrel blank and do the following:
1. turn it down to fit the breech
2. ream the leade (i.e. pellet chamber)
3. drill the port (if going into a pneumatic rifle; don't generally have one on a springer)
4. cut a groove for an O-ring (if required by the breech design)
5. blue it (most barrel blanks are supplied "in the white")
However based on the picture, these have had some machining done. I didn't see any details on the site or blog as to what rifle they are machined to fit, but this suggests you may have to chop off a couple of inches at the breech end and do the operations listed above to fit it to your particular breech block.
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I wonder how tight the choke is my 953s LW barrel is from 1985...
when it was shooting 400 fps with 7.9s Crosman Ultra Mags would get stuck at the choke...
I do not have the green to get another... but heck
now I will get to try a Crosman 19" 1:16 twist , a L.W. 19" 1:17.7 twist and a Daisy 19" 1:15 twist barrel : at 850-950 with 7.4g-7.9g pellets
so on down
to about 850 with 9.7-10.3g
and 700-777 with ~13g and such ;)
At least I think that is about how it will do when I get it built(MK 1377)
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Jason
Thanks for the detail. Not something I could do myself. That said is there a source to get said operations done and what would something like that cost?
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Evan, hopefully someone can make a more specific recommendation but if cost is a factor, you probably want to look for a local gunsmith to avoid shipping costs both ways. Otherwise you might want to search the machining gate and see what GTA members will do this sort of work. I suspect Norm at DiscosRus would be a good candidate. Assuming he does machining, he would already know the dimensional requirements and his work is excellent by all accounts.
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I have no idea what the cost would be, but unless you know someone with the equipment to do it, a airsmith like Mac1 or others are your best bet. Machine shops are more than capable to do the work, however there labor rate is higher and it would take them more time to do the work, because it's not something they do everyday. Most the airsmiths I know have a $50 to $75 an hour shop rate and could do the work needed in about a hour or two. Machine work is one thing that better to go with the best, not the cheapest.
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So far so good. This was my first order with Precision Airguns. Not really needing 3 LW barrels but lacking the will power to resist such a bargain, I waited until late last night to place the order and I figured they would be oversold. But instead of a cancellation email today, I got a shipping notice. ;D
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Are these being sold as blanks? Or are they set up for other guns? *crossing fingers they're blanks* Only reason I ask is because typically their blanks are 24" long...
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Not blanks, see my post from Sunday. The lengths range from 14" to 19".
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Not blanks, see my post from Sunday. The lengths range from 14" to 19".
I should have clarified: "blanks" meaning no leade, transfer port, or crown machined in them. I see at the website that they're different lengths! ;D You do mention that from the pictures, they look like some work have been done to them, is the length (maybe crown?) the only work done to the barrels?
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I can't review the pictures again at the moment but as I recall, the only machining that could be discerned positively from the photos was that the breech ends were turned down, and of course the one with a 1/2" UNC threaded muzzle. Also, the .22 cal are blued. Taken together, these few details implied to me that they may be in various states of "rawness" or finished, but definitely not blanks in the traditional sense.
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Gotcha... I might just have to pick up a .177 to see if it'll work with my 13xx/2100 hybrid!!
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I have a Hunter 220 that I would like to remove the old Gamo barrel out of the break barrel breech and install one of these. Is this doable or do have have to get a new gamo breech and barrel.
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I couldn't help myself either, ordered 4 12MM and 2 14MM in .22 this morning. They have shipped already. Regards, Tom
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If anyone would like any new full length LW blanks.....I will be putting in an order by Monday. Usually takes me 1 1/2 -2 weeks to get them if they are in stock. The 16mm choked barrels up to .25 Caliber are 130.00 shipped.
Pm me if interested.
Mike
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I received a couple of the 19" .177 barrels today and one of the 15" .22 barrels. The rifling on both types is sharp and distinct and the crowns look great. As seen in the photos on Precision Airguns' web site, the breech ends are turned down in multiple steps but there is no leade and no barrel port so my assumption is they were made for springer rifles. No biggie, I'll be modifying mine for PCP rifles.
I pushed a few pellets through each and it was apparent they are choked, and I figured I'd share the pellet closeups with you guys:
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um I like the look of the JSB 18.13gr the other pellets I think would need a lube job, seems to tight and will foul the barrel much faster...
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Agreed, getting them through the choke took serious pressure. Both Crosman calibers measure on the large side, which along with the harder alloy, makes them really tough to get through the barrels.
The pros say choked barrels aren't the best for long range accuracy, but of course make them much less pellet fussy for modest ranges. I enjoy the longer range stuff so I'm prepared to remove the choke if it doesn't deliver at a distance. Doing so with a full price LW barrel would be preceded by much hand wringing but I don't have the slightest reservation at this price.
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NervousTrigger, what is the O.D. of the breech end on your .177 barrels?
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Those pictures say a lot, Thanks for taking the time Nervoustrigger.
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No problem, I'm glad to hear the info is useful.
About the dimensions of the breech end of the .177 barrel, I'll have to get back to you tonight. All I can tell you at the moment is it is stepped down twice.
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Hi Jason,
I get to shoot a ton of LW barrels......and many others. The LW's have a relatively loose bore and utilize a choke to get the barrel down to the right size at the end. They are intentionally made this way to take advantage of the choke. I have never seen a LW barrel shoot worth a darn at 25m without a choke....and I think it's safe to say that accuracy will not improve with increased distance.
The barrels that others are referring to that are not choked have internal dimensions similar to the LW at the choked area.....meaning they are tight all the way down the tube, so they don't need the extra squeeze at the end. Those others are usually taper lapped so they have 2-3 tenths of squeeze from breech to muzzle just to maintain a seal on the pellet as it passes through.
I have extensively shot Liljas, Benchmarks, Channelyn's, Kriegers, and every other highly touted, taper lapped custom made barrel in 25m benchrest. The thing they all have in common is that they will shoot one hole groups for 3-8 shots.....then the POI will change (sometimes dramatically) and they will start the process over. They may come back to their original hole at some time and hang around there for a bit, but they do a lot of wandering. The better shooting ones keep this wander to a minimum. They might be the 5 shot kings.....but they are not the long term winners.
Choked LW barrels can go a lot longer without drifting around for me. The national benchrest records have been dominated by choked LW barrels. Nothing else is even close in terms of frequency. I know the guys who have a few of the records shot by taper lapped barrels, and they have confessed that when they shot their record it was by the skin of their teeth that the gun went the distance without leading up.
As for unchoked barrels shooting better over longer distances.....I think that perception probably has to do with lack of data due to way less players being in that game right now. The best shooting guns in the world are benchrest guns. 25m is the world wide standard with very few exceptions. Longer distance air rifle benchrest has just started to take place, and the guys that are always at the top of 25m.....haven't taken it too seriously, yet. That may change over time, but right now the Extreme Benchrest and events like that are mostly populated by local guys shooting stock rifles. Timmy Mac turned the tables this year and showed what a seasoned benchrest shooter could do. In terms of experience.....he's probably shot more benchrest targets than most of the the other contestants combined.
Any of my bench guns with a choked LW can shoot sub .200" 5 shot groups at 55 yards with regularity in calm conditions. Once the wind picks up.....it's all up to the shooter. Never shot at a paper target further than that.
Just some food for thought.
Mike
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Hi Michael,
Outstanding information and perspective you just shared, thanks so much! I was not aware that the LW bores were on the loose side. It was not evident by the force required to insert and push the pellets last night. Based on what you said, I'll definitely want to insert some just a short distance and back them out and inspect before I consider lopping off the choke.
At one time I was under the impression that distinct rifling marks on the head were a good sign, until noticing that the best pellets in a couple of rifles emerged from the barrel with just the slightest kiss marks on the head perimeter. One of those is a stock QB barrel that routinely deposits JSB lead into the gray matter of squirrels at 60 - 70 yards. I reasoned that as long as the head is just snug enough against the rifling that it does not yaw as it hurtles down the pipe, its aerodynamics are best for long range stabilty. Said differently, deep rifling marks on the head disrupt aerodynamics and stability.
The way spiraling and keyholing and other "instability indicators" often show up only somewhere down range (say, beyond 40 - 50 yards), makes me a little suspicious of the deep rifling marks left by a choked barrel. I would certainly test and retest before chopping off the choke of a heralded brand like LW, just wanted to clarify my thinking based on those observations.
With your immense experience, I surely would appreciate your perspective.
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Indeed good info, and confirms my thought on choked barrels, Jason the JSB pellets look great, I think that they will do very well, but keep us posted on your findings, and Mike sub .200@ 55 is outstanding, My goal is inside an inch at 100yards and things are looking good. Right now im .450ctc @ 70 just 30 to go, I was not using a bench jst a field pod, for the 100 I have to go set the gun on the bench to see exactly what she does.
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Jason.....let us know how it goes.
As a side note.....one afternoon after shooting benchrest, we took two guns over to the adjacent field that is full of prairie dogs. We had shooting sticks, chairs, and a laser range finder. With the angle of the sun, we could see a lot of our shots all the way to the target and noticed no spiraling with the JSB 18.1's and a LW choked .22 out to 160m. Lots of prairie dogs lost their lives, that day. The longest 2 were at the 160m mentioned.....and it took about 5 shots to find the range.....then two in a row to take them out. They were on different mounds about 30 feet away from each other.....lol. This was just a 36x bench scope without mildots.
Baxter,
Your location puts you in the same town as one of the best benchrest venues in the country. Open Grove in Oxnard. Joe has 10 concrete benches under full cover with target boxes at 25 and 50m.....even lights for daytime like night conditions. There is a lot more range beyond that for setting up your own target. You should stop over there sometime. You won't find a better bunch of people, and maybe you'll get the benchrest bug. The 2015 USARB Benchrest nationals will be there later this year. I just got back from there a few weeks ago for practice, and will certainly be coming out again soon. When I do, I'll drop you a PM and maybe we can meet and do some shooting.
Mike
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Awe Jason that would be awesome! yes let me know...I never even knew that there was a place like that here :o you have an address for the place? man that would save me and Nappyman a lot of driving just to sight in ;D
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never mind I got it a big WOW!
4101 Santa Clara Ave
Oxnard CA 93036
805-444-8521
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Baxter,
The range is on a personal residence. It's called Open Grove Air Rifle.
http://www.usairriflebenchrest.com/ (http://www.usairriflebenchrest.com/)
Scroll down to Affiliated Clubs......then find Open Grove from the list.....you should see contact info from there.
Mike
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There you go.
Mike
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Joe Friedrich (owner of Open Grove) is probably the nicest and most talented guy you could want to meet in Benchrest.....rimfire, centerfire, and air rifle. He could be described as the sort of guy that would give you the shirt off his back....then apologize if it's not your favorite color.
Mike
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I sent him an email letting him know exactly who I am and my background, Man being local I have to start looking for a bench rest gun ;D That will improve my skills even more ;D
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Baxter,
The USARB also just started (modified) a production class with the intent of luring new shooters to the sport. It's a relatively inexpensive way to get your feet wet. Go to the same page I linked, and look for the tab that says Rules and Classes for the needed info on all of the classes. You may find that there is already a class in which your current gun(s) will be allowed in.
Mike
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will do...
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Big Brown just dropped mine off...
will be measuring to see what I need to do for a Crossman breech soon.
I plan on just grinding a drill bit to do the chamber and leade and finish with 600 grit wet dry and a quick touch of super fine to polish.
that is how I did my .25 barrel... have to admit being slightly nervous about doing a .177 just because I have never done a .177... I have 3 to
do.
On the 25 and a .22 I just clamped in a vise with a magnetic level on top for reference then used the drill bit (with the taper ground) to drill just past the port and then a dowel/bamboo skewer with the wet dry to finish...
Have you decided how and what measurements you want I need to do some asking because honestly do not know what the taper should be...
.180 at breech down to .175-6 just past the port?
the crown( but not a recessed target crown like the Daisys) looks good and yep seems a bit tighter of a choke than on my old 85 Daisy 953
I have 3 .177 barrels to do
A Crosman which I just need to make the sealing flat for the transfer port and fine tune the chamber/leade
A modern Daisy 953 I need to chop the turned down portion off, produce a chamber/leade and the port and sealing flat.(paid almost same as this L.W. Barrel
a this Barrel...
I have some other stuff to get done but am eager to get to work... ;D ;D ;D
So yep I have time to listen about what I will do to machine it to a finished barrel if any one has thoughts and advice...
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Just got off the phone with Joe awesome guy, going there tomorrow, and will assist him and help him with the Nationals this year. looking forward to meeting everyone.
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That's great! You're going to love his place. He even has loaner wind flags.
Look forward to meeting you.....I'm going to try and come out again pretty soon.
Mike
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That's great! You're going to love his place. He even has loaner wind flags.
Look forward to meeting you.....I'm going to try and come out again pretty soon.
Mike
Thats great it would be nice to meet you...
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Hi, the six barrels I ordered showed up today. I can't believe how nice they look, they are blued so heavily they almost look black.If that is paint, they sure are a thin coat. Two of them are threaded and an lcd screwed on nicely. Regards, Tom
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I got mine late last night... looks good, for mostly a blank. It looks like I'll be losing all of the stepped down area, as none of them will fit. I expected this though, seeing as how the .177 is 12mm O.D. This leaves me with a hair over 18", which is perfectly fine with me. Now I just need to find someone to do the finish work for me... I wonder if these barrels are a normally stocked item, or are they a special lot of barrels that Precision just happen to have?
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They are a special buy. It looks like they've sold out of most of them.
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Great barrel. Put a 15 inch .22 in an 880 I converted to .22 a few weeks back. Very nice barrel for the money. I should have bought more than the 2 I did.
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^^x2!! Precision's sold out (for now?) If this comes up again, I'll be sure to get more!!
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^^x2!! Precision's sold out (for now?) If this comes up again, I'll be sure to get more!!
Same here!
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Hey guys, anyone found an alternative place to buy LW .22 barrels?
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Hey guys, anyone found an alternative place to buy LW .22 barrels?
http://www.lothar-walther.com/454.php (http://www.lothar-walther.com/454.php)