GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Daisy Airguns => Topic started by: oldnamvet on January 18, 2015, 02:04:30 PM
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I continue to run into people (mostly in sporting goods aisles) who think that BBs are fine in rifled barrels such as the 880. Last time I had a printed copy of this to show them. They still weren't convinced by the section on BBs. Said that was in Crosman guns, not Daisy. I give up.
http://www.crosman.com/discover/airguns/airgun-ammunition?source=pepperjam&publisherId=21181&clickId=1177137551 (http://www.crosman.com/discover/airguns/airgun-ammunition?source=pepperjam&publisherId=21181&clickId=1177137551)
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Well if they wish to ruin there barrels, let them so long as it is not a classic air rifle, and it is not a 953/853.
I have given up on that argument.
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yes, but crosman uses lands/groves like traditional rifling. daisy uses polygonal rifling that is designed to hold up better to the wear.
steel bb's are just as hard as the barrel, but are coated with a softer material, like zinc or copper. there is no way that the rifling would scrape all of the zinc off of a bb on it's way out the barrel.
this "wisdom" about bb's destroying rifling (or brass brushes for that matter) seems to come from old-timers. and i am sure that was the case with a Benjamin. i am sure that if a kid runs 4000bb's a month thru a 2100, there would be issues after a few years. if you push a few hundred bb's a year thru it, but mostly shoot pellets, i doubt you would notice. i would love for you to do the experiment to see how many bb's it takes to get the rifiling to disappear, compared to pellets.
hope that goes well. i can't wait for your scientific evidence of how many bb's it would take.
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I continue to run into people (mostly in sporting goods aisles) who think that BBs are fine in rifled barrels such as the 880. Last time I had a printed copy of this to show them. They still weren't convinced by the section on BBs. Said that was in Crosman guns, not Daisy. I give up.
http://www.crosman.com/discover/airguns/airgun-ammunition?source=pepperjam&publisherId=21181&clickId=1177137551 (http://www.crosman.com/discover/airguns/airgun-ammunition?source=pepperjam&publisherId=21181&clickId=1177137551)
Most likely it will never matter to them. They aren't trying to shoot one hole groups or they would be using pellets anyhow. The gun has a rifled barrel and is set up as a BB repeater so naturally one would think BB's are fine. That was the best part of 880, 760 and such when I was growing up. Cheap ammo, hard hitting and no fumbling with pellets. Still nice they know what it does to rifling and ashamed that won't believe it. I would not get to upset though. Had I known it would not have stopped me back then.
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from crosman:
"... Another disadvantage of firing steel BBs in a rifled barrel is that the BBs do not engage the rifling but rather ride on top of the ridges. Prolonged use of BBs in a rifle barrel can cause the tops of the rifling ridges to be worn off because unlike a lead pellet, a BB is as hard as the rifle barrel itself. If this happens, the rifle probably will not shoot as accurately with pellets as before the abrasion occurred. BBs are best used in airguns with smooth bores."
as these are the last three sentences , at the bottom of the page, i feel like this is more of a disclaimer. it is more aimed at the un-informed consumers. you know, the guy who buys "the best" bb/pellet gun money will buy, a bunch of bb's and complains a couple years later that the gun can't hit anything, never could. he's pushed 40,000 bb's thru it, 0 pellets. now he reads the interwebs and finds out that pellets work better (so would a little oil now and then). so he buy's a tin of daisy pointed pellets, and can't hit anything, that's $4 down the drain he won't do that again. finally he inspects his gun for the first time, and wonders why the rifling is so faint.
i guess what i'm saying is that PROLONGED bb shooting may do damage in some guns. casual shooting won't.
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If you're shooting BB's, are you really concerned about accuracy in the first place?
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ok, so maybe i'm just plink'n cans with 2 pumps. i put a few bb's thru my 880 every now and then. i see no harm. that said, i trust the daisy's not to wear as fast as others.
an 880 , isn't quite a target gun, although you can do quite a bit to improve it, and it will bring home dinner anytime. i contend that if bb is an option, it can be used sparingly without much effect on the performance. accuracy is not just castrating flies at 75 yards, and i have yet to see any bb/pellet gun any where near the big FT matches. it can be just hitting what your aiming at.
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Who has only one I still have a smooth bore barrel witch( sp for mojo) is more accurate for bbs anyways but am thinking a of making darts for... ;)
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Has there ever been a study done to confirm/refute the idea that BBs shot through a rifled airgun barrel will cause damage? All I see when this issue comes up in various forums is opinion on both sides, but no one has ever cited a reference that might address the question. It would be really good if such a study could be found, since it might obviate a lot of argument.
I am of the opinion that shooting BBs through a rifled barrel is bad for the barrel, but I have no solid evidence to support that contention.
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Has there ever been a study done to confirm/refute the idea that BBs shot through a rifled airgun barrel will cause damage? All I see when this issue comes up in various forums is opinion on both sides, but no one has ever cited a reference that might address the question. It would be really good if such a study could be found, since it might obviate a lot of argument.
I am of the opinion that shooting BBs through a rifled barrel is bad for the barrel, but I have no solid evidence to support that contention.
As to empirical evidence, not that I know of.
As to experiential evidence: the only thing I can say is the only rifled .177 barrels that I have seen the rifling worn enough to effect accuracy are those that have had many BB's through them. That and the same form of reports from others.
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from what i've read elsewhere, daisy's rifling looks like this pic. it may be why some think they have no rifling, other think it fine, and still others think its worn out.
crosman is like the one on the left, daisy like the one on the right. it's polygonal rifling.
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from what i've read elsewhere, daisy's rifling looks like this pic. it may be why some think they have no rifling, other think it fine, and still others think its worn out.
crosman is like the one on the left, daisy like the one on the right. it's polygonal rifling.
I believe that you are close to correct. And it probably have a longer ware time than the Crosman barrels, though copper or zinc rubbing on the steel will eventually where down either (that can be shown by rubbing pieces of smooth cooper or zinc against a smooth piece of steel, it will eventually where a track in the steel).
Copper and zinc are a lot harder than lead.
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I'm thinking it would take an awful lot of BB's to ruin the rifling. Could be wrong. I will never know. If I am not hunting and am target shooting I want accuracy. I don't get that from Bb's even in my smootbores. So other than Bb pistols that only destroy cans at close range I do not use them.
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I bought a Crosman Powermaster 66 that the previous owner said he'd never put pellets through it, but I still bought it since it was only $15... got home and looked and the rifling is still in perfect shape... My original Crosman 1377 has had hundreds if not thousands of BB's through it ('94 model, dual ammo) and it's rifling is still fine, same with my Daisy 990.
That said, I haven't really shot BB's much in the last few years unless it's the only ammo the gun will shoot... partially because I'm old enough to buy my own pellets and have a few thousand floating around to use :)
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About polygonal rifling, in a different application - the Glock pistols specifically - many people say to not use LEAD in this kind of barrel. It doesn't actually hurt anything, but can be a mess to clean up. I don't know from experience as I don't shoot un-jacketed pure lead in my Glocks (because I've heeded this polygonal rifling plus lead advice, whether it's right or wrong). Could be that the much lower velocities out of an air rifle make the polygonal/leading issue moot.
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I don't really see too much of a problem. I have enough airguns to be choosy about what they eat. The BBs will go to my Red Ryders and CO2 BB pistols, the 880s and other pellet rifles/pistols will get the lead pellets. Each type has their use.
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I had a very pellet firing accurate 1377 that lost some accuracy after shooting BB's through it.