GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Hatsan Airguns => Topic started by: rogue909 on December 12, 2014, 06:04:39 PM
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So I purchased a hatsan 125 in .25. I went to sight the thing in and it acts kinda funny.
So when choosing pellets, I'm looking for a slightly higher on the weight, the goal is to use for squirrel/rabbit hunting and frankly I'd rather just buy one type of ammo and practice & hunt with the same ammo.
With that said, I'm not against trying anything new if someone has some better advice. (Nor am I against ordering different types to try them, just nothing crazy like "buy the store!")
I checked throughout the forums and the bulk of people state that the 125 performs around 30-35 fpe. I don't have a chronograph so I averaged mine at 32.5fpe and punched in a 30 grain round. I should be pulling off around 700fps. This seems adequate for a heavy pellet to take down an animal with. (These are all round-about numbers, so nothing too accurate here.) I purchased some H&N Baracudas in 31.02 grain and tried it out.
(https://www.pyramydair.com/images/HN-92186350003_2-Page.jpg)
From there I started shooting and scoping in the rifle. I ended up cranking the vertical adjustment up on the scope almost all the way, this at a measly 10-15 yards while sitting (albeit my bench rest was a flipped over garbage can with a 4x4 across the top). Is this to be expected with an air gun? My last airgun was open sights so I don't have the exact comparison here.
I shot it quite a few times and ended up shaking the scope loose a few times, eventually I realized that you really need to crank these scopes down tight on the spring guns. (I plan to loctite it later tonight and try again later) Eventually after everything was tightened down nicely, I managed to get a quarter size grouping in about 5/6 shots. Typically I can hit a quarter 5/6 times at 100 yds with a 30-06 without much difficulty so hitting at 10-15 was a tad demoralizing (especially since this was supposed to be a me showing my girlfriend how to shoot kinda experience.)
So I ended up shooting more than I expected, about 100 rounds in I realized I was going to run out of pellets relatively quickly, time to order some more in!
My goal is accurate (quarter-dime size grouping) at 30 yards, although it would be awesome to be able to reach out to 50 yards (is that possible with the 125?)
My question are;
Is the ammo I ordered adequate for shooting at 30 yards? (50 yards?)
Should I order some other ammo to use? Which other ammo and why?
The scope is almost turned up to its limit on the vertical; when i aim farther out its going to need adjustment further. How am I to compensate for the necessary raising?
This is the first 100 rounds I've fired through this rifle, is all of this much to do about nothing since the gun is still breaking in? (its worth noting, I have fully broken down the gun and cleaned it)
The mounting screw for the scope rings to rifle is a pain to tighten down. I'm considering replacing the "nut" thing they ship the gun with to a regular washer and nut, has anyone done this? (good? bad?)
P.S. I made a write up of the dis-assembly in pdf form. Unfortunately its too big for the forum. If anyone needs it, send me a PM ^_^
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In my Hatsan 125 Sniper .25 I found the H&N's at 19 .91 Domed the best.
I could take the neck off a bottle at 75 yards easy.
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Did you have issues with the scope as I'm having? (What scope are you using?)
What do you typically use the hatsan for?
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Try switching the scope mounts around and see if it helps. Some times one is just a little higher then the other.
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Try switching the scope mounts around and see if it helps. Some times one is just a little higher then the other.
Very good call. Didn't even think of that.
Thanks!
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I did do a tear down and installed the ARH piston seal along with a good deburr and lube.
It made a world of difference.
The 125 is a killer platform if you give it that little extra attention.
I still have one called Walther Talon.
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Recently purchased a 125 vortex in .22 so I can't help with pellet selection, but I too am having issues with scope sighting-in and scopes in general, but I won't get into all that.
I really wanted this gun and hope to master it eventually and my eyesight requires a scope. I've had communications with techs at PA and it was mentioned that these and many break-barrel guns are susceptible to barrel droop. Guess I was fortunate with my other b-b guns as the scopes on those sighted in quite easily with little adjustment needed.
I've done some experimentation with a short level while my 125 is sitting in a Caldwell 7Rest, leveling the action then moving the level to the barrel and sure 'nuff the barrel is off a fraction of a bubble. I tried a BSA Essential from another gun and bottomed it out in vertical adjustment in an attempt to sight-in and THAT is NOT good for a scope to be set that way and just asking for a malfunction.
I now have a UTG Leapers TS series mounted in a one-piece UTG mount and haven't touched the turrets as yet (optically centered) and my laserlyte bore sighter tells me I'm not far off, but haven't shot at distance yet for sight-in. If the scope ends up needing a lot of adjustment for sight-in due to droop I will do some ring shimming and leave the scope as close to optical center as possible, mainly due to the recoil of the 125.
Researched the adjustable droop compensating mounts that are available but after doing some measurements those will raise the scope so high that I would not be able to achieve a comfortable normal shooting position.
There's some good videos at PyramydAir at their AirgunAcademy pertaining to everything to do with scoping.
Hope this helps.
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I did do a tear down and installed the ARH piston seal along with a good deburr and lube.
It made a world of difference.
The 125 is a killer platform if you give it that little extra attention.
I still have one called Walther Talon.
I did that, I have before and after pictures of the deburring and lubing, but all I deburred was the ram and some LIGHT sanding near where the backstop goes for the spring.
They are attached, can you comment on my craftsmanship? I'm not sure if I deburred adequately (I had a semi-limited selection of tools.)
Regarding the seal, I had not fired the gun yet so I just re-used the seal.
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I really wanted this gun and hope to master it eventually and my eyesight requires a scope. I've had communications with techs at PA and it was mentioned that these and many break-barrel guns are susceptible to barrel droop. Guess I was fortunate with my other b-b guns as the scopes on those sighted in quite easily with little adjustment needed.
I've done some experimentation with a short level while my 125 is sitting in a Caldwell 7Rest, leveling the action then moving the level to the barrel and sure 'nuff the barrel is off a fraction of a bubble. I tried a BSA Essential from another gun and bottomed it out in vertical adjustment in an attempt to sight-in and THAT is NOT good for a scope to be set that way and just asking for a malfunction.
I wasn't sure with regards to the scope being maxed out on the vertical, I had a hunch that was a no-no but I'm glad I got conformation.
I will try and do a barrel bending later tonight. Maybe then I can get some better adjustments on the scope. I know people perform barrel bends every once in awhile, I did some reading on it. But how much should I bend the end of the rifle? (in inches) like a 1/4" so when it relaxes back into place it actually has a bend?
Maybe I should invest in a barrel bore laser...
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I think you will find that the proper amount of bend is less than 1/16". Almosat imperceptable.
Make sure to center the reticle before you start, then bend the barrel to strike as close as you can to POA.
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Center the reticle with respect to? The clamp?
My plan was to...
Reset my scope to "default middle grade" settings. IE; determine how many clockwise spins I can go on the L/R adjustment then go counter clockwise half that many turns so the scope is in "mid range" on the adjustment. Ditto for the Vertical.
Fire the rifle while centered on a target several times without adjusting anything (just verifiying solid non-moving setup).
Measure my distance from target -> grouping.
Level the gun off so I'm adjusting the Vertical or Horizontal distance.
Strap a laser to the barrel and place a target at the distance my original target was at.
Bend the barrel until the vertical or horizontal distance has moved the laser equivalent to the amount my grouping was off.
Then shoot a grouping and minorly adjust the scope to make sure that I have a good target.
But before I do that, I want to make sure I have decent ammo, >.>
I was using H&N 30 grain.... is this too heavy? It would be awesome if the rifle could eventually shoot 50yds, is that possible with this ammo?
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With respect to the scope tube. The closer to the mechanical center the reticle is, the better.
Here is a good topic - http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=74083.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=74083.0)
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Center the reticle with respect to? The clamp?
My plan was to...
Reset my scope to "default middle grade" settings. IE; determine how many clockwise spins I can go on the L/R adjustment then go counter clockwise half that many turns so the scope is in "mid range" on the adjustment. Ditto for the Vertical.
Fire the rifle while centered on a target several times without adjusting anything (just verifiying solid non-moving setup).
Measure my distance from target -> grouping.
Level the gun off so I'm adjusting the Vertical or Horizontal distance.
Strap a laser to the barrel and place a target at the distance my original target was at.
Bend the barrel until the vertical or horizontal distance has moved the laser equivalent to the amount my grouping was off.
Then shoot a grouping and minorly adjust the scope to make sure that I have a good target.
But before I do that, I want to make sure I have decent ammo, >.>
I was using H&N 30 grain.... is this too heavy? It would be awesome if the rifle could eventually shoot 50yds, is that possible with this ammo?
WoW, When I did my Crosman MTR77 NP, I just centered my scope back, set the end of the barrel on the tailgate with a cloth under it and applied pressure at the breech. I kept pushing down and firing at the target until the POI started coming up. Once it was close I adjusted the scope as normal. Did it all in the field the same day I took it out to see how it would group.
Of course your way will work, just a bit drawn out and complicated for my taste.
I guess you already know to rest the forearm of the gun on your open hand and not down on the rest. I can get some good groups at 50 yards with my 125 in .8922, It has to be laying the same way each time on my hand and I have to have the same grip as I squeezed the trigger. Can't remember if it was a tight grip or a loose grip, but they are picky when shot from a rest.
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My laser idea went kaput because I couldn't find a laser for the rifle. Went to bass pro and they have them but they dont have them in a .25 or even a .22 caliber round.
So I think I'm going to go back to your way of doing it.
With regards to my stance, I like to shoot from a rest. Especially when a gun is not acting right. For this targeting I was just going to shoot sitting from my tractor. I've found the backhoe has a little bar that I can use as a convenient rest. This puts the gun resting and me sitting. I usually cup my hand and lay the rifle in it, but not really grip the rifle.
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One thing I'd like to add here is that I have on rifle that I put 6x24x50 AO scope on that I pick up off ebay for about $70, It doesn't have a brand name on it so I have no idea who made the thing, I do know it has worked great on a couple other rifle that I have but when I put it on my Hatsan Striker it wouldn't adjust out right, with turret set to make the rifle shoot as high as possible the gun hit about 3-4 inches low even at 10 YDS, I went to wally world the next day and paid about the same money for a center Point 4x16x40 AO scope, put it on the Striker using the exact same mounts and it adjusted out perfectly with room to spare.
my point in all of this is part or even all of the problem could be the scope itself and not the rifle, If you can go pick up a $69 Center Point 44x16x40, stick it on that gun and see what you getm, migh be a problem solved just that easy.
Best wishes, Shan
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Your 31 grain pellets are way too heavy for a spring gun. Try something in or arround the 20 grain mark. Even the JSB 25.4 will be on the heavy side for a 125. A closer estimation of available FPE is 25 to 30 . Remember your gonna want the lead flying at about 750 to 900 fps for the best accuracy. These are just my opinions .
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The 125 in .25 cal should produce 29-33 fpe out of the box. With a good tune and new seal 35 FPE is easily possible. Pellet weight should be around 21-30 grain for 25 cal give or take depending on the weight it produces peak FPE with.
The H/N CroMag, FTT, and Hunters work well. My best results both FPE and accuracy wise came with using the Cro's and the FTT's.
You have significant barrel droop.
Bending the barrel on the 125 is a little more difficult than with most other guns. Its a tough barrel and will require some force. You only need to bend it very slightly, as mentioned earlier, maybe a 16th.
Might even be better to just get a droop compensating mount.
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I reset the optics on the scope to center (with the scope to mirror and align crosshairs trick) and put some red loctite on and tightened the scope down. Comfortable that the scope wasn't going to budge (I feel like that was part of my problem on the original setup) I decided to try another shooting session. I had purchased some Benji 27.8 grain from the local Bass Pro to add some variety into the mix so that was my ammo for the day.
I decided on 3 shot groups; the plan was to bend the barrel to get the accuracy up. My first three shots I took my time on and ended up with a nice solid grouping. A nearly horizontal line with all three holes touching. Unfortunately, the grouping was about 8" down and 3" left of my crosshair. So I opted to begin my barrel bending.
This barrel is a pain to bend. I put it in a clamp setup (similiar to the barrel bending 101 setup in the machinist section) and used a variety of 8" C-clamps, the barrel seemed to jump back into place. I then shot a few shots and they pretty much lined up in the same spot. So I tried again with the C-Clamp method, no success.
So then I switched to a vice. I put the sight end of barrel in the vice and pushed on the gun. I didn't want to press too hard, but went out and shot a few shots. Same line up and grouping.
So I switched to our table saw; it has holes in the table to lighten it up, its still a very solid table. Below is an image (found randomly on the interweb) so you know what I'm talking about.
(http://cdn.instructables.com/FUO/VK4B/FPBKZ2UF/FUOVK4BFPBKZ2UF.MEDIUM.jpg)
I put the sight of the barrel in one of the grooves and pryed until the table lifted up.
Same grouping.
After much thinking, I realized....I like this barrel! Its tough!
So I opted to shim the scope; I began to loosen the hex screws on the scope mount and *pop!*...
Shouldn't have used red loctite.
Now I need to get new scope rings; or try and remove the screw that is very much wedged in there. I have a feeling the scope rings that came with the rifle are most likely not the most effective rings. And this is a good opportunity to switch to something that I can use to modify for the barrel droop. So, does anyone have any suggestions with regards to an effective ring solution?
So I think you guys are correct; I need to lighten up on the pellets, especially If I am going to hit at farther distances.
Paul; you mentioned several pellets there and I am new to the airgun world.
FTT=Field Target Trophy?
CroMag = Crow Magnum?
Hunters = Baracuda Hunter? Baracuda Hunter Extreme? (Whats the difference?)
The last 2 are both hollow points; I was under the impression that hollow points don't perform as well as domed, even for hunting purposes. Am I correct in this?
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Yes. those are the pellets. The Hunters are just plain hollow points, the hunter extremes are slotted. Yes, hollow points don't generally do well at high velocities and long distances. In the 25 cal guns though I've found them to work quite well with the lower velocities and higher weight of that caliber.
Since you have to get new rings, why not get a droop compensating mount?
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That's similar to what I was thinking. Of course I'm not fully aware of the quality of the optima scope that came with the rifle. Am I better off replacing the scope & the mount?
Or is the optima scope a semi-decent setup? Bear in mind, the maximum I would like to shoot is 50yds and the magnification is comfortable for me... 3x9x40
My budget for this fix is around $50, with Christmas coming around I can't do much better. :(
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The Optima seems ok when you get the rifle, but when you put something else of better quality on, you suddenly notice just how basic it really is. I'd get a Centerpoint 4x16x40 AO from Wally World ($69.00) and a droop compensating mount. That would likely solve your scope issues and you can just return the scope for another if it has any problems. Since you're money limited right now (boy do I know how that is lately), I'd just get the mount and work with the Optima till I could afford better. Maybe a few hints dropped around might result in Santa bringing you a new scope?
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Is there a specific droop compensating mount that you would suggest?
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I haven't had to resort to one myself, which is amazing really considering all the guns I've gone through, so I couldn't recommend one. Check out Pyramyd Air and perhaps use their chat to get a recommendation. They'll steer you right.
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I would just cut out a plastic shim from soda bottle, wrap it with electrical tape. Insert it on the rear scope mount and it will cost you $0.00. I did that with my 4x32 optima on my 125 and I shoot out to 50 yards. Its still holding zero. I gotta fix it cheap or it don't get fixed!
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I gotta fix it cheap or it don't get fixed!
I like your motto, but at this point I've screwed up my mount so I figure I may as well get one that does what I need.
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Any updates on this situation?