GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Nomadic Pirate on December 06, 2014, 06:12:24 PM
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Man those guys keep coming out with a bunch of guns and calibers :o :o ;D
Classic rifles, bullpups, tactical rifles, semi automatics, bottle guns, tube guns, double bottle, combination tube bottle.
.177 .22 .25 .30 .357 .45 .50 Calibers magazine fed repeters.
Evanix might not be top of the line but, boy they sure give you a lot of options ;) ;)
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Thanks for the heads up Manny.
Going to check out the prices in a little while.
Dave
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the only thing I dislike about the Evanix .30 they came out with is the fact they did it 6 months to late >:( I might have bought the .30 RSII instead of my .25 RSII.
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Hi Manny
Any thoughts on pellets for it? Found only the JSBs.just wondering because I am interested
Dave
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Yeah, so far only the JSB, hopefully the barrel will take cast bullets, but no one knows so far
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The JSBs are 0.300" head size.... Most cast bullets are 0.308" with the exception of my 70 gr. BBT which was designed to work in a .300" Airgun barrel....
Bob
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one good bullet is all you need :) :)
looks like the .30 is becoming more and more popular with airgun manufacturers, Pellet companies will eventually follow the trend :)
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30 is a great caliber for the Rainstorm2 :) The action is flexible enough to shoot the JSB 44 and 50 gns well past what make sense and the BBT to 120 fpe as well. How can you ask for more? I hope Evanix takes note of how amazing the JSBs and BBT fly out of the 1:26 twist barrel and don't do something dumb with the twist.
Tom
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I see none are in are in stock but they will be available on the 9th. I was hoping the new gun that looked similar to the airforce guns would be available now. at least the sniper carbine is available in .30.
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30 is a great caliber for the Rainstorm2 :) The action is flexible enough to shoot the JSB 44 and 50 gns well past what make sense and the BBT to 120 fpe as well. How can you ask for more? I hope Evanix takes note of how amazing the JSBs and BBT fly out of the 1:26 twist barrel and don't do something dumb with the twist.
Tom
It's the biggest caliber they should use in the RS2 platform as 9mm is really stretching out things. I hope they kept the valve housing and transfer port in the same size they have in 9mm guns. Next thing they should do is to use that bigger breech from ML bullpup and make a line of guns with wood stocks in .357-.50 calibers, perhaps RS3? Also pump up the power a bit, .35 JSBs really should fly in the 880-920fps range.
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got my first evanix gun, really like the way its made and shoots,as for power i am pleased for now, i am sure will.p, could up the power, should i want more,the 45 seems to have a strong and smooth lever system hope it is that way with the 30 cal., but like i said, this is my first evanix product,more to come i am sure... ;D
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30 is a great caliber for the Rainstorm2 :) The action is flexible enough to shoot the JSB 44 and 50 gns well past what make sense and the BBT to 120 fpe as well. How can you ask for more? I hope Evanix takes note of how amazing the JSBs and BBT fly out of the 1:26 twist barrel and don't do something dumb with the twist.
Tom
It's the biggest caliber they should use in the RS2 platform as 9mm is really stretching out things. I hope they kept the valve housing and transfer port in the same size they have in 9mm guns. Next thing they should do is to use that bigger breech from ML bullpup and make a line of guns with wood stocks in .357-.50 calibers, perhaps RS3? Also pump up the power a bit, .35 JSBs really should fly in the 880-920fps range.
Well, that really depends on the needs and applications, I bought the Rainstorm .357 and what I needed was exactly what the gun's gives, the 130 FPE are just perfect for what I do and I have no intention to power it up and she's been flawless for a couple of years now.
Agree that they should have a wood stock version for the new action.
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got my first evanix gun, really like the way its made and shoots,as for power i am pleased for now, i am sure will.p, could up the power, should i want more,the 45 seems to have a strong and smooth lever system hope it is that way with the 30 cal., but like i said, this is my first evanix product,more to come i am sure... ;D
One day I want one of those .45s.....but I can't see my financial situation giving me the option for some time to come :(
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30 is a great caliber for the Rainstorm2 :) The action is flexible enough to shoot the JSB 44 and 50 gns well past what make sense and the BBT to 120 fpe as well. How can you ask for more? I hope Evanix takes note of how amazing the JSBs and BBT fly out of the 1:26 twist barrel and don't do something dumb with the twist.
Tom
It's the biggest caliber they should use in the RS2 platform as 9mm is really stretching out things. I hope they kept the valve housing and transfer port in the same size they have in 9mm guns. Next thing they should do is to use that bigger breech from ML bullpup and make a line of guns with wood stocks in .357-.50 calibers, perhaps RS3? Also pump up the power a bit, .35 JSBs really should fly in the 880-920fps range.
Well, that really depends on the needs and applications, I bought the Rainstorm .357 and what I needed was exactly what the gun's gives, the 130 FPE are just perfect for what I do and I have no intention to power it up and she's been flawless for a couple of years now.
Agree that they should have a wood stock version for the new action.
Exactly, let me take the needs thing ones step farther. I've tried to design a big bore to shoot pellets and slugs from 30 to 45 caliber, I've found it is impossible to meets both requirements efficiently and effectively. A pellet shooter doesn't need huge porting and a fancy probe-less design but a bullet shooter does need the max in terms of porting and probe design to reach the potential slugs can deliver in terms of BC and energy. So I've split my designs into regulated pellet shooters and non-regulated high power slug shooters, not big bore and small bore.
So the Rainstorm2 9mm easily falls into the pellet shooter category having plenty to effectively drive the current ~80 gn pellets. Heavier slugs are another story. That's why I commented on the 30 cal as the perfect nexus with ability to shoot both pellets and slugs effectively although not with the same tune.
Tom
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What has the better pel BC? the .30, or the .357?
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The .357 should have the better BC, as the SD is higher....
Bob
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I wonder if the fpe numbers Pyramyd has listed are actual numbers from them or from an Evanix? They said they were going to test some themselves.
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I think the best option for those .30s shooting the JSB pellets is to be a 80 FPE gun
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So the rainstorm and sniper have different actions? I have rainstorms in .22 and .357, the sniper carbine .30 is looking good to me but it's list at only 71 fpe I believe?
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Yeah the Sniper and MAX-ML series have the new beefed up actions, that's why they are in .45 and .50 cal too.
The Sniper Carbine is cool but the shorter reservoir and shorter barrel will give less power and shot count
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Well,...... Pyramyd has them in stock now :) :)
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Buy, buy, buy...............!
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Who's going to be the guinea pig? LOL!
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For 854.99 I would definitely jump on a Rainstorm .30, but at the moment the funds just aren't there :(
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.30 is soon to be the new .25
I wonder if anyone would make a .410 PCP
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.30 is soon to be the new .25
After seeing what Tim from Mac1 did at the EBR with a .30 at 75 yards I agree big time. Now pellet manufacturers have to start making more .25's and .30's.
What happened to the 33 - 35 grain .25's JSB announced this spring/summer? I have not heard anything about it since August.
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.30 is soon to be the new .25
I don't know really. With the very limited choice in cast bullets and diabolos in .30, the .25 and .357 are hard to compete with. When .25 came out it had just .22 to compete with. You also need to remember that people are power hungry, would you rather take a 120 fpe .30 or 180 fpe .357?
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Yeah, we airgunners can be greedy when it comes to power rkr. & you do have a point to a degree about it being hard to compete to fill the gap between .25 & .357
But what most larger bore air gun shooters really want is a caliber that can allow them to stretch their range out well past 150 yards & be less affected by wind, but can still deliver enough force to dispatch a pest or impact a target with authority, without having to aim for the sky in order to hit the target. A lot of long distance shooters love & prefer the .308 caliber for this reason, as well as the .257
The .25 can make it past 150 yards easy, but is somewhat lacking in the power dept at those ranges. The .357 can to, but is a little slow so trying to reach those distances requires a lot more h/o the further you need it to go. The .30 may turn out to be able to provide just be the right combo of weight, velocity, energy retention & wind resistance at longer ranges, depending on pellet/bullet weight & how fast a particular gun can move them.
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Yeah, we airgunners can be greedy when it comes to power rkr. & you do have a point to a degree about it being hard to compete to fill the gap between .25 & .357
But what most larger bore air gun shooters really want is a caliber that can allow them to stretch their range out well past 150 yards & be less affected by wind, but can still deliver enough force to dispatch a pest or impact a target with authority, without having to aim for the sky in order to hit the target. A lot of long distance shooters love & prefer the .308 caliber for this reason, as well as the .257
The .25 can make it past 150 yards easy, but is somewhat lacking in the power dept at those ranges. The .357 can to, but is a little slow so trying to reach those distances requires a lot more h/o the further you need it to go. The .30 may turn out to be able to provide just be the right combo of weight, velocity, energy retention & wind resistance at longer ranges, depending on pellet/bullet weight & how fast a particular gun can move them.
That is the case with today's mass production guns. However, I believe the .357 guns will also reach 900 fps in the future (with a bit of tuning production guns do that already) and that when combined to poor ammo selection will make .30 a bit obsolete. Besides, if you are serious about reaching long ranges then bullets are the way to go and .357 has much more selection. It could even be that .357 may become a niche caliber if .45 guns develop enough. It actually seems that .257 and .308 are gaining popularity for long range airgun shooting as it is now, it will be tough for .30 to compete with them with the limited ammo choice. Of course we have super duper acuurate .30 FX ST barrels but they are for pellets only and pellets are really not the best choice for long range shooting with their poor ballistic properties, I think there's a reason why the "Extreme" bench rest competition is 75 meters only :)
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I see your point. Solids are definitely the ideal way to go from .30 cal on upwards especially for longer distances.
wrt the shortage of available ammo in the .30 cal, imho if enough gun makers make guns in the .30 cal, ammo makers will follow along sooner than later to capitalize on the new demand. And then there's the alternative, one could make their own cast boolits
I just believe it would be easier to make the .30 cal shoot solid bullets @ 900fps than it would be to achieve the same velocities with the larger .357 shooting a similarly designed bullet.
But like I said, we airgunners can be a little greedy at times. Some of us just want it all ;D
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Some of us just want it all ;D
and we want it now!
That Sniper in .30 is looking good. Of course then there is the Rainstorm II. Off to check credit card balances...
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Even a .224 boolit has a better BC than a 30 cal pellet. 40-ish grains of .224 in reasonable shape( w/o no deliberate efforts to reduce its BC ) will be in neighborhood of .09...which is double a 30 pellet...:) Bob's 30 BT at only 70 gr is .12...and that equals *MUCH* better long range performance in a breeze. The shortened .257 from NOE will do quite well...and going to .308 will allow reasonable performance on a 3k fill and at reasonable velocity.
I balance that with the worry about where a boolit with high BC is going to wind up when I point rifle up to draw a bead on a squirrel in a tree...:)
cheers,
Douglas
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.30 cal 70 grain BBT @ 900 fps vs squirrel.
The real question is would it be enough ;D
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.30 cal 70 grain BBT @ 900 fps vs squirrel.
The real question is would it be enough ;D
I think you better go hollow point to maximize the kill effect and to avoid lengthy tracking of wounded squirrel ;) One thing that wasn't discussed is shot count and there smaller calibers will shine, although most serious long range shooters will use bottle + regulator making that a moot point. Another thing is the barrel land height in the rifling, .257 and .308 firearms barrels have relatively high lands requiring more oomph to get that bullet flying fast enough.
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.30 cal 70 grain BBT @ 900 fps vs squirrel.
The real question is would it be enough ;D
The marauder is happier spitting them out at 1000 fps...I think that is adequate for squirrel...but for an engine room shot on a 'yote a HP would be useful...and I'd still bet heavily on complete pass thru. if not, shedding 150 or so FPE into a target will not be w/o significant damage...lol
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Well rkr , we all know once caliber exceeds past .257 shot count goes to pot unless reg'd, & regs defeat the benefits of increasing the caliber. But even if one could only get 10-12 shots on a fill the gains in energy would be a worthwhile trade off to the abundance of shots available from the smaller calibers. You make a good point about the lands, but this is an airgun barrel. They're usually made thinner walled & with more shallow rifling that pb barrels anyway, so I don't think the depth of the lands cutting into the slug would cause too much excessive friction requiring that much more air usage.
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Will the .30 be the next .25 ?
possibly,.......That is entirely dependent on pellets manufacturers, it's nice to have different powers/calibers to fill gaps,
30-40 FPE .22 - 50-60 FPE .25 - 80-90 FPE .30 - 120-130 FPE .357
Than if you wanna go big you have all kinds of options in .357 and .45 to have them in the 100s FPE
It's all about applications, I would like to have a 80-90 FPE .30
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Well rkr , we all know once caliber exceeds past .257 shot count goes to pot unless reg'd, & regs defeat the benefits of increasing the caliber. But even if one could only get 10-12 shots on a fill the gains in energy would be a worthwhile trade off to the abundance of shots available from the smaller calibers. You make a good point about the lands, but this is an airgun barrel. They're usually made thinner walled & with more shallow rifling that pb barrels anyway, so I don't think the depth of the lands cutting into the slug would cause too much excessive friction requiring that much more air usage.
10+ shots at 100+ fpe is entirely doable, my .357 gets 14 shots in between 116 and 136fpe with a power curve. The problem is getting a very flat shot string as even 10 fps less velocity makes easily 1/2" POI drop at 100 yards, which is the reason why 100M competitors usually attach their guns to a regulated air source. It's also interesting to observe how heavier pellets are appearing and bullets are used in smaller calibers making it possible to reach higher fpe values. A big diameter bullet itself is not a big advantage unless we talk about hunting. Personally I have no need for a .25 or .30 pellet gun as I have a rimmie with LDC to cover that power area but I might consider a .257 or .308 bullet shooter for 100M and 200M bench rest shooting.
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Will the .30 be the next .25 ?
possibly,.......That is entirely dependent on pellets manufacturers, it's nice to have different powers/calibers to fill gaps,
30-40 FPE .22 - 50-60 FPE .25 - 80-90 FPE .30 - 120-130 FPE .357
Than if you wanna go big you have all kinds of options in .357 and .45 to have them in the 100s FPE
It's all about applications, I would like to have a 80-90 FPE .30
You cite energy at ~950 fps...why the discontinuity at .357? Those pellets are 80 grain...that would be 160 fpe if the rifles are capable of that.
cheers,
Douglas
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It seems the current .357 production offerings fall short of 950 fps with available pellets.
Tom
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Quite correct Tom.
Most production guns in .357 shooting moderate weight ammo between 95-120 grains & are usually in the lower 800 fps range, very few making it to the 900's, and if I'm not mistaken all of those that do are single shot Korean guns
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Will the .30 be the next .25 ?
possibly,.......That is entirely dependent on pellets manufacturers, it's nice to have different powers/calibers to fill gaps,
30-40 FPE .22 - 50-60 FPE .25 - 80-90 FPE .30 - 120-130 FPE .357
Than if you wanna go big you have all kinds of options in .357 and .45 to have them in the 100s FPE
It's all about applications, I would like to have a 80-90 FPE .30
You cite energy at ~950 fps...why the discontinuity at .357? Those pellets are 80 grain...that would be 160 fpe if the rifles are capable of that.
cheers,
Douglas
I'm looking at a range in FPE, ...whatever it takes in FPS to get there I don't care to much :) :) I'm not settiing on a standard velocity just my range of FPE that I'm seeking and it just happens that those are the velocitys, I used to have higher FPE guns but for what I do It was pointless, If I wanted a 160+ FPE .357 I would buy a Recluse not an Evanix.
Velocity per se isn't all that important to me in my limited Hunting ranges , FPE is what I'm looking for.
I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in long range shooting past the 40-50 yards and I very seldom even shoot at that distance so a .357 that travels at 850 fps is perfectly fine for me :) ....I have no need for more energy.
Those .357 Rainstorms have taken many Hogs already with devastating efficiency,...I'm a Happy camper :) :)
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Manny you have an unique perspective and needs.
I think most would like their 357s to shoot as flat as possible for hunting in more open country. The best way to achieve this is to design for the maximum practical velocity which is generally accepted as 950 fps and use the projectile with the best BC. I completely agree that less than 50 yards the trajectory of a 750-850 fps is not an issue and there is plenty of terminal potential; you've shown us that many times :)
No disrespect to the 357 RS, it has led the way and set the bar high enough that most others fail to match it but I envision a new generation of big bores that fill the performance gap between the Evanix and the custom guns, they will offer flatter shooting with a decent shot count. What more can you ask for?
Tom
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;D ;D ;D Free with free shipping would be nice. Short of that a wife that enjoys shooting as much as me would be great
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Never hurt to ask......... Getting declined can hurt some. LOL!
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Well, 2 PCPs repeters in .357 cal that came out recently have even less power than the Storm and cost more than twice as much :) :)
Yeah the Rainstorm .357 is what it is,
it fills a niche for those that aren't looking for full power .357, it does it's job well for what it was designed to do.
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Yep I am looking at the big bores. Sadly I have to say that if the big bore RS2 is as good as the smaller calibers for the price and the power, Evanix has much interest here.
Raw 357 would be sweet but much more money. I have had great luck with the Evanix line. The .357 has much ammo available. Just don't have the home life for the big bore.
Np has shown all.of us with his hunting skills what the EVANIX can bring down.
THANKS DARKSIDE!!
FANG
JYAG'S
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Manny you have an unique perspective and needs.
I think most would like their 357s to shoot as flat as possible for hunting in more open country. The best way to achieve this is to design for the maximum practical velocity which is generally accepted as 950 fps and use the projectile with the best BC. I completely agree that less than 50 yards the trajectory of a 750-850 fps is not an issue and there is plenty of terminal potential; you've shown us that many times :)
No disrespect to the 357 RS, it has led the way and set the bar high enough that most others fail to match it but I envision a new generation of big bores that fill the performance gap between the Evanix and the custom guns, they will offer flatter shooting with a decent shot count. What more can you ask for?
Tom
The thing is, RS2 platform is perfectly capable of shooting light bullets at around 950 fps. It would cost the factory just a few bucks more (if any) to produce it that way, too bad they don't. I actually had high hopes about the 9mm Cricket but they were didn't even match the RS2 power. Perhaps FX will be the next to try the 9mm approach. I just hope they don't do it with ST barrels.
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The problem is these guns don't have enough air. People want regulated and high shot count.
They say the RAW get 20 shots at 740 fps. Well to get the fps up the reg pressure has to be turned way up and the reg chamber has to be larger. For a tube gun now the air volume just got smaller. So now you might have a 10 shot gun.
With my .30 regulated condor changing 15 fps is like 10 shots on my 62 ci tank. If I dropped it down from 900 fps to 840 -850 fps I might get 100 shots.
It takes a lot of air to make good power and shot count.
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Could increase shot count with either an increase in reservoir volume, or reservoir operating pressure.
Easier to increase operating pressure imho. Going from 200 to 250 bar, or even 275 if possible. Then it would just be a matter of the individual buyer tuning the gun for their required efficiency.
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You need to increase the reg chamber. It's just not a matter of turning up the reg. 1 cc per fpe. Most guns don't fill past 250 bar.
I'm running 1600 psi reg on my .30 at 900 fps with 45 gr and around 880 fps with 50 gr.
If I were to increase my chamber a little more I could get right around the same numbers on 1400 psi.
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Is the barrel removable?