GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Speedly on December 02, 2014, 03:57:09 AM
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So I have a new AT-44, that came with the standard Hatsan fill probe. Mine leaks a little until you get some pressure on it, and then it seals itself.
I've seen people say to lube the rings with silicone lubricant. I have happened upon a spray can of silicone lube, but it says it has petroleum products in it. It says you spray it on and it dries, and the dried substance provides the lubrication. Knowing the properties of gasoline, butane, etc., I know they can be used as carriers for otherwise unsprayable compounds, so I'm not sure if they'll cause a problem.
I have a strong feeling in my gut that I'm not supposed to use it for this purpose. I know you don't use petroleum lubes in chambers and stuff, but is it of concern on a fill probe?
Thanks for taking the time to answer this dumb question. ;D
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You'll probably get away with using it as you suggest, but I'd recommend against it. The way you'll discover you guessed wrong is not likely to be pleasant. A bit or divers grease, either silicone or Krytox will do just fine.
cheers,
Douglas
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I use a finger moistened on a damp rag. Been doing it for years with no ill effects. Keep in mind though, orings are consumables, no matter what you do they will suffer wear. Besides the lube, get more than a few spares.
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Adam, goto dolphin scuba in sac, and get a small tube of divers grease
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dielectric grease, its cheap and works, its silicone grease.
Josh
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The proper lube to use is vaccum grease.
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The proper lube to use is vaccum grease.
seeing as how vacuum grease is not as easily obtained, and dow corning vacuum grease and dielectric grease are chemically identical except for a silica thickening agent which is known to be abrasive why would you suggest it as the "proper" lube to use? even consider its made to be used in a vacuum instead of high pressure? the absolute most fitting lubricant to use here would be divers grease as it is a standard grease for high pressure oring seals.
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The proper lube to use is vaccum grease.
seeing as how vacuum grease is not as easily obtained, and dow corning vacuum grease and dielectric grease are chemically identical except for a silica thickening agent which is known to be abrasive why would you suggest it as the "proper" lube to use? even consider its made to be used in a vacuum instead of high pressure? the absolute most fitting lubricant to use here would be divers grease as it is a standard grease for high pressure oring seals.
Well Josh being an optical engineer and dealing with O-Rings in a Vacuum state or non Vacuum state, for one they help reduce the leakage rate by filling the asperities of the metal. It is great for the longevity of O-rings, has no abrasiveness what so ever where did you get that from? why would I use the something that is abrasive in a VC that has $50,000 worth of substrates inside to fail? and where did you hear that it is not ez to get? Amazon, Ebay and other places is not a problem and would last for many many years to come......takes very little per O-ring just enough to put a light layer down. The main benefits for using is It exhibits excellent high and low temperature resistance and do not solidify or melt at extreme temperatures. It does not carbonize after decomposing at high temperature and also demonstrate excellent resistance to extreme weather conditions, Water, chemicals etc.
Places to buy
http://www.amazon.com/Corning-Vacuum-Lubricant-5-3oz-Tube/dp/B001UHMNW0 (http://www.amazon.com/Corning-Vacuum-Lubricant-5-3oz-Tube/dp/B001UHMNW0)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dow-Corning-high-vacuum-grease-/121493141318?pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item1c498e3746 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dow-Corning-high-vacuum-grease-/121493141318?pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item1c498e3746)
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Oh and by the way its not used inside a Vacuum chamber its used for the O-Ring of the Vacuum doors and feed thru to help SEAL from leaks.....
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my definition by not as easy to get is he cant pick it up at local hardware store, silica in its base form is abrasive to most materials it has a very rough grain structure and it is used as a thickening agent in dow corning vacuum grease. perhaps its in the grease to do as you suggested and fill voids in the surface on which the orings slide.
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You got it Josh ;D and the only reason is that I have the same gun and that probe can be a pain....... I have not measured the the probe per say, but I am willing to bet that the tolerances vary.
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gotcha, the reason for the probe issues I can explain. they are still using the same probe design from back when webley made the fx 2000, which in all rights is a fx airun, the probes are all the same. well a decade and a half later the probe design is still the exact same and has a fiddly fit because manufacturing tolerances aren't what they used to be when webleys were built in the uk. ive had quite a few uk webleys and fx and played with enough hatsans to notice the probe fit is quite a bit different.
Josh
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Indeed they are , i was just looking at it here at work and was tempted to machine my own.
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maybe you should machine a few and sale em ;D
Josh
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maybe you should machine a few and sale em ;D
Josh
I would hand a few out, plus shipping and material, thats it.
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Adam, goto dolphin scuba in sac, and get a small tube of divers grease
Done. Thanks for the tip!
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a possible use for your silicone spray would be lubing pellets. i dump a new tin of pellets on a paper towel and spray with silicone then holding the edges of the paper towel roll them back and forth and spray again. i do the process a few times turning the towel so they get mixed up good. then i wipe out the tin if there are any lead shavings in it, then dump the pellets back in . any shavings or debris on the pellets stays on the paper towel. the pellets are dry and there's no build up on them or in the barrel.
i've tested this against slick 50 one lube, krytox, white lightning and whiscombes "honey" and just out the can...best results for me was with the silicone spray.
peace
kj
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Drilled out fill hole in cylinder. Used a "R" drill. Tapped both ends of the hole to 1/8th NPT. Put stainless steel allen head pipe plug in top hole. Screwed cylinder onto gun. Screwed Foster brand QD male fitting into other end of hole. Used Locktite 545 on threads. Works GREAT! ;D
Drain all pressure from cylinder prior to working on it!!!
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Dow Molykote 55 is what I use. It is specifically made for use on o-rings. It is expensive, but a tube should last you a lifetime's use on air guns.
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If you put any type of grease or silicone lube dirt and dust will stick to it the you will be pushing it into you gun leave it alone or a little water( spit) on it before insertion.
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The proper lube to use is vaccum grease.
seeing as how vacuum grease is not as easily obtained, and dow corning vacuum grease and dielectric grease are chemically identical except for a silica thickening agent which is known to be abrasive why would you suggest it as the "proper" lube to use? even consider its made to be used in a vacuum instead of high pressure? the absolute most fitting lubricant to use here would be divers grease as it is a standard grease for high pressure oring seals.
Well Josh being an optical engineer and dealing with O-Rings in a Vacuum state or non Vacuum state, for one they help reduce the leakage rate by filling the asperities of the metal. It is great for the longevity of O-rings, has no abrasiveness what so ever where did you get that from? why would I use the something that is abrasive in a VC that has $50,000 worth of substrates inside to fail? and where did you hear that it is not ez to get? Amazon, Ebay and other places is not a problem and would last for many many years to come......takes very little per O-ring just enough to put a light layer down. The main benefits for using is It exhibits excellent high and low temperature resistance and do not solidify or melt at extreme temperatures. It does not carbonize after decomposing at high temperature and also demonstrate excellent resistance to extreme weather conditions, Water, chemicals etc.
Places to buy
amazon.com/Corning-Vacuum-Lubricant-5-3oz-Tube/dp/B001UHMNW0]http://www.amazon.com/Corning-Vacuum-Lubricant-5-3oz-Tube/dp/B001UHMNW0[/url]
ebay.com/itm/Dow-Corning-high-vacuum-grease-/121493141318?pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item1c498e3746]http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dow-Corning-high-vacuum-grease-/121493141318?pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item1c498e3746[/url]
Is there a video to show exactly how to apply this grease to the Hatsan fill probe?
After applying the identical vacuum grease recommended above, filling my Hatsan is screwed up.
After 10 pumps on my hand pump, the handpump gauge goes to 3,000psi, and is at 4kpsi within 15 total pumps.
Then, I have to wait a few minutes for the handpump gauge to return to what I assume is the true level inside the Hatsan resevoir.
Then, 15 pumps later, the handpump gauge is back up to 4,000psi.
Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.
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Sounds like your gun's check valve is sticking in the closed position, or maybe a blockage in your pumps high pressure hose.
Pump a couple strokes with the gun not connected to the pump, if air is moving freely out the fill probe then most likely your valve is sticking in the closed position or the inlet port is blocked.
if thats the case, remove & degas the reservoir, then unscrew the fill end & remove & clean the brass check valve, might as well change th oring while your in there.
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dielectric grease, its cheap and works, its silicone grease.
Josh
So I had the stiff turrets on my Athlon Argos scope and found people said that the lube on the orings is too thick and to use something lighter. I had thick silicone oil on hand that I pack my RC monster truck's differential with and realized it was too thick. I was out of silicone shock oil for the shocks and being I was too lazy to drive anywhere I searched my garage high and low for a suitable lube. No, not KY jelly. I then remembered I did my spark plugs a couple weekends ago and headed for the dielectric grease and guess what, it's silicone grease. Plus it was light enough to replace the thick goop Athlon placed on the rings but still have faith it's water-tight.
BTW, it worked.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicone_grease (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicone_grease)
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^^^^^^^^.
I use losi or Hpi 100% silicone shock oil. Works great
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OK. Let me try this again.
Is there a video to show exactly how to apply this grease to the Hatsan fill probe?
After applying the identical vacuum grease recommended above, filling my Hatsan is screwed up.
After 10 pumps on my hand pump, the handpump gauge goes to 3,000psi, and is at 4kpsi within 15 total pumps.
Then, I have to wait a few minutes for the handpump gauge to return to what I assume is the true level inside the Hatsan resevoir.
Then, 15 pumps later, the handpump gauge is back up to 4,000psi.
Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.
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OK. Let me try this again.
Is there a video to show exactly how to apply this grease to the Hatsan fill probe?
After applying the identical vacuum grease recommended above, filling my Hatsan is screwed up.
After 10 pumps on my hand pump, the handpump gauge goes to 3,000psi, and is at 4kpsi within 15 total pumps.
Then, I have to wait a few minutes for the handpump gauge to return to what I assume is the true level inside the Hatsan resevoir.
Then, 15 pumps later, the handpump gauge is back up to 4,000psi.
Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.
so, how much did you put on it? all you need to use is a dab on the finger tip and put a very light coat on the o-rings so there is a very thin film on it, sounds like you put too much and it has clogged the inlet port, you might have to take the tank off, Drain it of air and disassemble the fill port, clean out the grease and reassemble. or send it to someone that knows how to work on the gun.
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Thanks for answering.
I assume you're correct about clogging,
because I bought another fill probe, and that fixed the problem.
But, I'd still like to fix my original fill tube, and learn the proper way of lubing the o-rings for the future.
I took my pinky finger fingernail and "scooped" a small amount from the tube.
Then, I used the same pinky finger to spread that amount around the o-rings.
Can't understand how that would have clogged it up.
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Here is what I recommend ..... used on scuba gear.
Trident pure silicone grease.
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Pappy that Trident is good stuff, especially for assembly of a pcp, I'm fortunate to have a nearby paintball shop that carries several different viscosities of silicone oil at a very reasonable price. I've got me a good sized bottle of 60 weight that's ideal for coating my probe with every now and then on a couple different pcps that I have and also putting a drop or two in the foster fitting with my Mrod, Prod and Disco prior to filling every once in a great while just for the added assurance that the internals aren't too dry.
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Thanks for answering.
I assume you're correct about clogging,
because I bought another fill probe, and that fixed the problem.
But, I'd still like to fix my original fill tube, and learn the proper way of lubing the o-rings for the future.
I took my pinky finger fingernail and "scooped" a small amount from the tube.
Then, I used the same pinky finger to spread that amount around the o-rings.
Can't understand how that would have clogged it up.
if you have access to a fill tank, connect the fill probe to the hose and place in a vice to hold it stable for safety, might be good to wrap it with a rag too, open the valve on the tank and blow out the clog, if you don't have access to a fill tank you will have to remove the O-rings and place them somewhere safe and clean, use WD-40 or Carburetor cleaner with spray straw and spray into the "small hole" on the fill probe and back flush the air hole till i come clean, use a Q-tip swab to try and remove excess grease from the inside of the probe through the hose end and re-spray again till it is clear, clean the probe of any petroleum products and use high pressure air from a air compressor to dry the probe if you have one available, if you don't, use Dawn dish soap and very hot water to clean the probe, air dry 24 hours, now, with a tiny dab of the scuba grease, rub between 2 fingers and apply a very thin light film (residue) on to the O-rings and re install to the probe making sure there is "NO" globs that can cause clogging........... and there you go.
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Pappy that Trident is good stuff, especially for assembly of a pcp, I'm fortunate to have a nearby paintball shop that carries several different viscosities of silicone oil at a very reasonable price. I've got me a good sized bottle of 60 weight that's ideal for coating my probe with every now and then on a couple different pcps that I have and also putting a drop or two in the foster fitting with my Mrod, Prod and Disco prior to filling every once in a great while just for the added assurance that the internals aren't too dry.
Good idea, Wayne, on the silicone oil. While I'm at a paintball shop, i'll pick some up .... and get some air too.
Thanks;
Pappy / Allan
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So I have a new AT-44, that came with the standard Hatsan fill probe. Mine leaks a little until you get some pressure on it, and then it seals itself.
I've seen people say to lube the rings with silicone lubricant. I have happened upon a spray can of silicone lube, but it says it has petroleum products in it. It says you spray it on and it dries, and the dried substance provides the lubrication. Knowing the properties of gasoline, butane, etc., I know they can be used as carriers for otherwise unsprayable compounds, so I'm not sure if they'll cause a problem.
I have a strong feeling in my gut that I'm not supposed to use it for this purpose. I know you don't use petroleum lubes in chambers and stuff, but is it of concern on a fill probe?
Thanks for taking the time to answer this dumb question. ;D
I use Trident silicone grease for my O rings on the probe, and fill adapters. Its used in scuba won't harm anything.
I use the Moly on my bolt or any metal on metal parts.
(http://puu.sh/wRvJJ/47503fdb80.jpg)
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Thanks for answering.
I assume you're correct about clogging,
because I bought another fill probe, and that fixed the problem.
But, I'd still like to fix my original fill tube, and learn the proper way of lubing the o-rings for the future.
I took my pinky finger fingernail and "scooped" a small amount from the tube.
Then, I used the same pinky finger to spread that amount around the o-rings.
Can't understand how that would have clogged it up.
if you have access to a fill tank, connect the fill probe to the hose and place in a vice to hold it stable for safety, might be good to wrap it with a rag too, open the valve on the tank and blow out the clog, if you don't have access to a fill tank you will have to remove the O-rings and place them somewhere safe and clean, use WD-40 or Carburetor cleaner with spray straw and spray into the "small hole" on the fill probe and back flush the air hole till i come clean, use a Q-tip swab to try and remove excess grease from the inside of the probe through the hose end and re-spray again till it is clear, clean the probe of any petroleum products and use high pressure air from a air compressor to dry the probe if you have one available, if you don't, use Dawn dish soap and very hot water to clean the probe, air dry 24 hours, now, with a tiny dab of the scuba grease, rub between 2 fingers and apply a very thin light film (residue) on to the O-rings and re install to the probe making sure there is "NO" globs that can cause clogging........... and there you go.
Thank you for the thoughful response.
I will give that fix a shot when I have access to those items.
I already bought the grease that Bwalton recommended.
Next time, I will try your method of rubbing a scant amount between my fingers, and using my fingertip to apply the "residue" to the O-rings.