GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Hatsan Airguns => Topic started by: Airgun Depot on November 07, 2014, 02:01:20 PM
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Hey all,
Rick just posted the second part of his review on the Hatsan big bores to our blog with lots of chrony test info. Check it out!
http://www.airgundepot.com/hatsan-bt65-big-bore-airguns-35-9mm-article.html (http://www.airgundepot.com/hatsan-bt65-big-bore-airguns-35-9mm-article.html)
~Cameron
AGD Marketing Team
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Thanks Cam! just what I have been waiting for! ;D Oh snap I have seen this one already, but what I really want to know is ........will the .30 come in the Elite? I see that the QE does not? or I have not seen one?
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You and me both! Im hoping that he gets the .30 testing done soon as thats the one that interests me the most. ;D ;D ;D
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From looking at these numbers the .30 and .357 are neck in neck as far as power. That's really weak compared to Korean guns like the Recluse and Evanix guns.
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These are currently the prototype airguns. Rick worked with Hatsan last year on the release of the Quiet energy series and is doing so again with the big bores. The .30 cal is performing as well or better than we could have hoped.. the .357 is going to take a little tweaking here and there to balance shot count and power. Initially, the concept was to deliver more shots with a little less power. Given the feedback that's been received, it seems like more power vs shot count may be more desirable to the US market. There's room to increase the power for sure. Those tests are underway now. Once they've been able to work out a good compromise, I'm sure they get some more data out to us.
Just out of curiosity, would you guys want a little less power and more shots or more power and less shots?
Thanks
Scott
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These are currently the prototype airguns. Rick worked with Hatsan last year on the release of the Quiet energy series and is doing so again with the big bores. The .30 cal is performing as well or better than we could have hoped.. the .357 is going to take a little tweaking here and there to balance shot count and power. Initially, the concept was to deliver more shots with a little less power. Given the feedback that's been received, it seems like more power vs shot count may be more desirable to the US market. There's room to increase the power for sure. Those tests are underway now. Once they've been able to work out a good compromise, I'm sure they get some more data out to us.
Just out of curiosity, would you guys want a little less power and more shots or more power and less shots?
Thanks
Scott
In this case I would want more power because the .357 have the same power as the .30 cal and the .30 have a lot more shots so what would be the need for a .357?
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MORE POWER! We are hunting so if you are out to lets say shoot a pig, your not going to need more then a clip. I would like to see a good power band on a single clip with a low ES............ 6-8 shots before topping off is all one would need, thats for the .357 for the .30 10 shots will be great!
when im out hunting I do not waste shots, I make every shot count.
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IMO, distinguishing between the .30 cal and the .35 cal.... in other words aiming them at different segments of the market.... makes the most sense.... Since the .30 cal appears to have decent power right now (81 FPE) and should, at that energy be able to deliver two 7-shot magazines, I'd tend to leave it alone.... The .35 cal, however, needs more power, IMO, and if you can tune it for just ONE 6-shot clip at maximum possible power but with minimum velocity spread, I think you'd have a winner.... Since the pellets run 78-82 gr, if you can get them up to 900 fps, that would be 140-150 FPE, which should be do-able in terms of onboard air.... providing the ports are big enough.... Then by using bullets that will still fit the magazine (up to about 105 gr. or so), you could get a bit more energy and still get those 6 shots.... Personally, I think that's what everybody is hoping for with the .357....
Bob
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Here is our chance to make our voice heard, and Hatsan they do listen as seen with the QE series.
So +1 what Bob Said.
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Hi
I have to agree with the group
More power for the .357 is what I would want to see.
Dave
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Here is our chance to make our voice heard, and Hatsan they do listen as seen with the QE series.
So +1 what Bob Said.
Same here, what Bob said ;)
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MORE POWER! We are hunting so if you are out to lets say shoot a pig, your not going to need more then a clip. I would like to see a good power band on a single clip with a low ES............ 6-8 shots before topping off is all one would need, thats for the .357 for the .30 10 shots will be great!
when im out hunting I do not waste shots, I make every shot count.
These are still just air guns. If I were hunting pig and I have in Fla just use a PB rifle, more humane
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+3 What Bob said..
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MORE POWER! We are hunting so if you are out to lets say shoot a pig, your not going to need more then a clip. I would like to see a good power band on a single clip with a low ES............ 6-8 shots before topping off is all one would need, thats for the .357 for the .30 10 shots will be great!
when im out hunting I do not waste shots, I make every shot count.
These are still just air guns. If I were hunting pig and I have in Fla just use a PB rifle, more humane
PB guys use sub-sonic ammo that can cost a buck a shot. It's not anymore or less "humane".
My suggestion is 6 shot clip that will accommodate 100 gr slugs.
Ports large enough to provide 4 shots over 200fpe. (100gr @ 1000fps = 222fpe)
Bob is that do-able math wise with the stock air reservoir?
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MORE POWER! We are hunting so if you are out to lets say shoot a pig, your not going to need more then a clip. I would like to see a good power band on a single clip with a low ES............ 6-8 shots before topping off is all one would need, thats for the .357 for the .30 10 shots will be great!
when im out hunting I do not waste shots, I make every shot count.
These are still just air guns. If I were hunting pig and I have in Fla just use a PB rifle, more humane
do a search of Nomadic Pirate. That's Manny on this board in the Korean and Big Bore Gates and look at his hog hunting videos. He hunt's them with 22, 25, and .357 cal and drop them with one shot one kill.
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With the stock air reservoir, maybe.... With the ports than can be achieved in a BT65 valve?.... I have my doubts.... 200 FPE is a tall order, not reached in any STOCK Korean guns, if I'm not mistaken.... Also, a 200 FPE .357 cal. is a bullet only shooter, too much power for pellets.... I still think 6 shots at 140-150 FPE should be achievable, however.... I got 6 shots @ 137 FPE, 7 @ 134 FPE and 9 shots @ 125 FPE with 78 gr. JSBs in my Disco Double with a 3000 psi fill and a 250 cc reservoir (the BT65 is 255cc).... with only 0.219" (5.5mm) porting.... Use 6mm ports and it should do it relatively easily, IMO....
Bob
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I am pretty sure not too many people here have promoted Hatsan any harder then myself.
Being a born bargain hunter (by choice not necessity). I have been a pretty strong and adament believer that a well prepared AT44 .22 can compete with almost any gun up to 4 times the price for printing 50 yard groups.
Baxter too has expressed simular claims.
Here is where I leave the trail. I had made no secret of my dislike of the "Super Clunky" BT65.
You know, I still have my BT65 Elite displayed on a shooting stand in the gun room.
I looked at it a few days ago. I was reminded of the overwhelming attraction I have had to this gun to from day one. Too bad it all ends when I go to work the action.
So I have found a version of big bore what will most likely be my next gun. I really can't say it draws me to it by it's magnetic profile. With that said, I know what to expect when I get ready to shoot it. Plus, I have already fired it's other form a few weeks back.
I am most likely going to go with the FX Boss .30. I have touched and fired the .30 Bobcat and completely impressed. I even got the profound pleasure of shooting this gun with a "Ted Scope cam". 3 big .30 pellets laced in the bulleye less then 1/2" group at 50 yards and no parallax issues, which I struggle with thru a regular scope at distance.
I know you seldom hear of The Boss, coming up in "big bore" conversations. .However, 80 FPE from a gun with a synthetic stock that feels like velvet. I was almost shocked at how soft it felt.
Now comparing that feel to the BT65 Elite was night and day.
I still remember the first time I wrapped my hand over the thumb hole pistol grip of the BT Elite. My heart sank, it was way too small for my over sized hand, and the sharp checkering on the grip made my hand uncomfortable. I finally ended up using a very thin driving glove to make the grip more comfortable. Then as I always say, the extremely stiff action of the BT steals all the fun of shooting it.
In contrast, the big FX has a sweet little side action, weighs several pounds less then the Hatsan, the trigger "according to Ted" is the best out there. Now you need to mix the Bobcat and the Boss reviews from Ted to get the whole story. This long gun is not Teds style for his hunting. Yes I could buy the Bobcat, which is a "big" gun in its own rite.
I just prefer the rifle style.
So compare the new BT65 .30 to the FX Boss .30, you can't. It would be like trying to compare a chocolate cake to a potato. Yes with guessing the BT .30 will be around $1000 and the FX about $2000. However, I can buy the FX and know I will own it forever. 5 years from now, it will still be worth at least $1500.
The FX get 40, yes Forty plus shots per fill. The FX at least according to Ted, shoot ◆◆◆Worst case 2" 10 shot groups at 100 yards, and 1" 10 shot groups when the shooter gets the right conditions. The BT65 .30 is going to be terribly ineffectant for shot count and as a 100 yard shooter, Match proven winning "Soft Twist" barrel, 9 shot mags for .30 cal, sweet for sure compared to brand X.
The most important thing to me, will be, I know I am going to ♡love♥ shooting this gun everytime I take it out. I know I am going to hit what I aim at aiming at time and time again.
Why? Well which gun has won the last 2 AOA 75 yard Extreme Bench Rest shoot outs.
2012 by the FX owner and last year by a man ◇◇◇who had never competed at the 75 yard mark in his life◆◆◆ So I think even I will be able to get a lot of bullseyes in the future.
I know if I went with the BT big bore, I would spend "$1000, and then want to sell it for what I can get for it. Plus the regular BT65 is a "blah" looking gun. If Hatsan is going to cheap out and just throw anything on the market to say it is a big bore.
How much more does it cost them build an Elite over a cheapie looking BT 65? Just the cost of the 2 extra clips and a cheap sling and case, so wholesale $25 tops.
☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆So Hatsan, if you are listening, at least think about making the .357 in the Elite profile so people don't think it is just a $299 Sniper break barrel, right?★★★★★★★
When I consider all the built in extras the FX Boss .30 comes standard with, including 500cc gun tank, 9 shot mags, built in regulator, factory tuned, capable of finishing an entire 75 yard competition without a top off. I agree the gun is far from beautiful, but that will soon be forgotten once the shooting begins.
Just need to add another $500 for the scope cam setup.
Be Well,
Gator
http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/FXBoss.html (http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/FXBoss.html)
http://www.fxairguns.com/rifle/the-boss-2/ (http://www.fxairguns.com/rifle/the-boss-2/)
http://tedsholdover.com/fx-boss-30/ (http://tedsholdover.com/fx-boss-30/)
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MORE POWER! We are hunting so if you are out to lets say shoot a pig, your not going to need more then a clip. I would like to see a good power band on a single clip with a low ES............ 6-8 shots before topping off is all one would need, thats for the .357 for the .30 10 shots will be great!
when im out hunting I do not waste shots, I make every shot count.
These are still just air guns. If I were hunting pig and I have in Fla just use a PB rifle, more humane
PB guys use sub-sonic ammo that can cost a buck a shot. It's not anymore or less "humane".
My suggestion is 6 shot clip that will accommodate 100 gr slugs.
Ports large enough to provide 4 shots over 200fpe. (100gr @ 1000fps = 222fpe)
Bob is that do-able math wise with the stock air reservoir?
why would someone use subsonic ammo unless using a supressor and what is the sense in that unless shooting a pig at a funeral wake. a simple 30/30 with a 13 dollar box of core locks will do the job. all these guys shooting big game with air rifles say one shot is all it takes but you never hear of the ones shot that get away which I say is way more then anyone likes to admit. fishermen and hunters are real good storytellers.
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gracious ?? I'm going to leave that one alone. ....
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What Baxter said....
Be Well,
Gator
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+3 What Bob said..
+4, move into .357 and it's pretty much hunting medium size game, more shots is not a concern, power is.... and of course accuracy.
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IMO, distinguishing between the .30 cal and the .35 cal.... in other words aiming them at different segments of the market.... makes the most sense.... Since the .30 cal appears to have decent power right now (81 FPE) and should, at that energy be able to deliver two 7-shot magazines, I'd tend to leave it alone.... The .35 cal, however, needs more power, IMO, and if you can tune it for just ONE 6-shot clip at maximum possible power but with minimum velocity spread, I think you'd have a winner.... Since the pellets run 78-82 gr, if you can get them up to 900 fps, that would be 140-150 FPE, which should be do-able in terms of onboard air.... providing the ports are big enough.... Then by using bullets that will still fit the magazine (up to about 105 gr. or so), you could get a bit more energy and still get those 6 shots.... Personally, I think that's what everybody is hoping for with the .357....
Bob
I totally agree
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MORE POWER! We are hunting so if you are out to lets say shoot a pig, your not going to need more then a clip. I would like to see a good power band on a single clip with a low ES............ 6-8 shots before topping off is all one would need, thats for the .357 for the .30 10 shots will be great!
when im out hunting I do not waste shots, I make every shot count.
that's an outstanding point of view I totally agree
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+3 What Bob said..
+4, move into .357 and it's pretty much hunting medium size game, more shots is not a concern, power is.... and of course accuracy.
+4 what Bob said. At 140 or 150 fpe and five or six accurate shots I'm an interested customer.
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No doubt it can be done but we would have to do it ourselves. I would maybe start with the dia of the stem and some porting?
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No doubt it can be done but we would have to do it ourselves. I would maybe start with the dia of the stem and some porting?
Too true.
Hopefully, one of GTA's resident gurus will mark a trail that can be followed without mill or lathe.
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None of the airgun manufacturers seem to be approaching 900' per sec. Do you suppose that due to the large diameter pellets they might not be flying true at over 830fps? With those large skirts it might be easy to get them whipping back and forth at over 830fps. Regards, Tom
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I can't speak for the 35 cal but the 30 cal 44gn JSB does not like to go over 900 fps without significant loss of accuracy. In the case of the 35 cal guns many are producing less than 800 fps. Can you say cannon ball!
Tom
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The Daystate .30 cal is well over 900, with great accuracy.... and the .30 cal JSBs are winning just about everything in Benchrest now (that doesn't allow bullets), at nearly 900 fps.... I can't imagine that what you suggest would be a problem, as the .35 cal pellets are basically just scaled up versions of the .30 caliber, and because of the increase in size actually end up with a better SD and BC.... I think it's a matter of not pursuing power at the expense of shot count.... For 900 fps, that works out to 1.8 FPE per grain, so an 80 gr. .35 cal is 144 FPE while a 50 gr. .30 cal is "only" 90 FPE.... All things being equal, that means the .35 cal will use 60% more air per shot, or get about 40% fewer shots than the .30 cal. at equal velocity....
I personally would sooner have one 6-shot clip at 150 FPE than two at 90 FPE in a .35 cal.... Realistically, how many times do you need more than 6 shots of that power when hunting?....
Bob
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Interesting about the Daystate being > 900 fps. Every time I bring my 30 Rainstorm with with the TJ barrel over 900 it really opens up. Timmy stated he was shooting at 875 for the EBR. Daystate's barrel may be more tolerant of the higher fps?
Tom
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It's possible.... The FT guys shoot JSBs in the 880 range in .177 cal, so it's probably just the sweet spot for ultimate accuracy with that shape of pellet, regardless of caliber.... I use 18 gr. JSB Heavies in several of my guns at 950-960 fps with good accuracy, good enough that I haven't chased lower velocities in search of better.... It's good enough for ground squirrels out to 106 yards.... I don't hit every single one on the first shot, but my success rate is good, and inside 50 yards I seldom miss (unless they duck!).... My Hatsan .25 cal will shoot groups you can cover with a dime at 50 yards with JSB Kings at 1030 fps, and just over an inch C-T-C at 100 yards.... so again, I have never needed to look slower for accuracy (although I am looking forward to the new 34 gr. to drop back into the mid 900s).... I don't personally have enough trigger time on my .30 and .35 cals yet to see if they have a "speed limit"....
Bob
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Lets say both Hatsan's big bores are very accurate in .30 and .357. What pellet will be better on a windy day at 75 yards?
A 35 caliber 80 grain traveling at 800 fps.
A 30 caliber 50 grain traveling at 900 fps.
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Not a lot of difference, it depends on the exact BC at those velocities for each pellet.... The 80 gr. in .35 cal has an SD of 0.090, and the 50 gr. .30 cal about 0.079, and they are almost identical in shape (assuming both are JSBs), so in theory the larger caliber pellet should have a BC about 14% better.... The BC is likely a fraction better at 800 fps than at 900 as well, so my guess would be the .35 cal.... Only velocity measurements downrange will tell you for sure....
Bob
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Not a lot of difference, it depends on the exact BC at those velocities for each pellet.... The 80 gr. in .35 cal has an SD of 0.090, and the 50 gr. .30 cal about 0.079, and they are almost identical in shape (assuming both are JSBs), so in theory the larger caliber pellet should have a BC about 14% better.... The BC is likely a fraction better at 800 fps than at 900 as well, so my guess would be the .35 cal.... Only velocity measurements downrange will tell you for sure....
Bob
Thanks Bob..
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So, where are the great accuracy results?
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So, where are the great accuracy results?
Rick Eutsler from airgunWeb says both rifles he has tested are accurate. AGD also states the .35 is accurate. Links:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhd_5VjogJk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhd_5VjogJk)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqKxWlybCfk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqKxWlybCfk)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyLoIf_CPmM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyLoIf_CPmM)
AGD review: http://www.airgundepot.com/hatsan-bt65-big-bore-airguns-35-9mm-article.html (http://www.airgundepot.com/hatsan-bt65-big-bore-airguns-35-9mm-article.html)
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I went onto airgun depot to check these new models out. Says more on their way. I call them and they have yet to ever even get them!! Was told they will not get any until summer time. Why the *(&^ not just say that?? They have it written like they sold out and more are coming!!
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I went onto airgun depot to check these new models out. Says more on their way. I call them and they have yet to ever even get them!! Was told they will not get any until summer time. Why the *(&^ not just say that?? They have it written like they sold out and more are coming!!
Thats why I do not deal with them , PA says 2-15-15 they have a date , plus they do not charge you until the item ships so you can pre order and not worry about your funds being tied up forever.
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It's possible.... The FT guys shoot JSBs in the 880 range in .177 cal, so it's probably just the sweet spot for ultimate accuracy with that shape of pellet, regardless of caliber.... I use 18 gr. JSB Heavies in several of my guns at 950-960 fps with good accuracy, good enough that I haven't chased lower velocities in search of better.... It's good enough for ground squirrels out to 106 yards.... I don't hit every single one on the first shot, but my success rate is good, and inside 50 yards I seldom miss (unless they duck!).... My Hatsan .25 cal will shoot groups you can cover with a dime at 50 yards with JSB Kings at 1030 fps, and just over an inch C-T-C at 100 yards.... so again, I have never needed to look slower for accuracy (although I am looking forward to the new 34 gr. to drop back into the mid 900s).... I don't personally have enough trigger time on my .30 and .35 cals yet to see if they have a "speed limit"....
Bob
Bob my gun I do not know , but when I tried JSB's over 950fps there became erratic, and when I went to a 31gr H&N I got a .500ctc 6 shot group. The JSB did not work well at High velocities. My company goes to the shot show every year and it just dawned on me to tell them to stop by JSB and see if they have some of the new .25 pellets, and if they do, pick up as many tins as they will sell you ;D at lease come back with one tin ;D
I have to do more testing it was the guns first time out.
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hammer0419,
Sorry about the confusion on the ship dates for the new Hatsans. Unfortunately with the way our backend system runs and links with our inventory system in the warehouse whenever a gun is out of stock it will automatically add the "More On The Way" status at the top. However if you look at the button that normally says "Add To Cart" it will be changed to " Pre-Order" and there is a note directly below that that shows the estimated in stock date of 02/15/2015, that is the date that Hatsan has said we should be receiving them. I am working with our web development team to change the "More On The Way" notice to "Pre-Order" and move the projected in stock date up to the same line so hopefully that will clear up some confusion. Thanks for your feed back,
~Cameron
AGD Marketing Team
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Also, we do no not charge you until the order ships. It will authorize the card to make sure funds are available but that drops off in 3 days if we haven't charged the card yet. The only exception to this would be if you pay by PayPal or Pay By Amazon. Those service charge when the order is placed.
Thanks!
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More power is needed for hunting . Then I will be happy to spend some of the boss lady,s money.I will be ordering a 30 cal soon and will wait to see what happens on the other.
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Does anyone know if Hatsan has given the .357 its power back?