GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => AirForce Airguns => Topic started by: 454 Big Block Chevy on November 01, 2014, 05:23:30 PM
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Not sure how to even start with this project. i would like to build either a new condor, or convert mine to big bore. leaning towards .257 or .30 cal. i am curious as to what valves are available. i'm sure someone makes a uber valve for a condor...
i'd like to get roughly 150+ FPE, shoot around 1000-1100 FPS for flat trajectory and start casting my own boolets. i work at a ford dealership so lead wheel weights are basically endless supply for me.
Not paying out the @$$ for boolets will be nice.
Ideas? Thoughts? Concerns?
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Should be interesting build. But one question, what the he!! Are boolets? Lol
I use balance weights also for making my own fishing weights. Its embarrases the wife and kids when i jump out at stoplights to grab them out of the road.
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Just because you want to use bullets (or boolits) doesn't mean it's an advantage to push them over 1000 fps.... Their drag still skyrockets, and the wind drift increases, when you do that.... I'd sooner deal with trajectory and tune for minimum drift, which means stay in the 900s.... I would recommend you contact dyotat100 RE the Condor valve, he has a handle on how to make a ton of power with them.... For a barrel, go with the TJ's .257 liner with the 14" twist.... or if you want to go .30 cal and use both JSB pellets and light bullets, then the TJ's .300 cal Airgun liner that Sean and I designed, with a 26" twist.... If you want a .308 cal bullet only shooter, then the TJ's 20" twist is a winner....
Bob
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Should be interesting build. But one question, what the he!! Are boolets? Lol
I use balance weights also for making my own fishing weights. Its embarrases the wife and kids when i jump out at stoplights to grab them out of the road.
HAHAHAHAHAHA! LMBO! Cause that is something I would do.
Joe
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Here's a tip. Wander around truck stops, or the roads immediately leading to them. We've got WAY bigger weights. And they fall off just as easy.
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TJ also has a 14" twist .308...that is Doug's, and he reports good results with it. I am going to use one for my next Marauder build. Likely less than 30" long, but more than 24...:)
If you're going to cast, you will want Tin to add; it makes the stuff fill the mold by reducing surface tension. Hunt around for hallmarked Pewter, it is mostly Tin, and other useful alloying elements.
cheers,
Douglas
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I use pure lead or 98-99% pure and have no issues with casting. Even the small .257's cast excellent.
I add about 6" of plumbers silver bearing solder to a full pot. Veral from LBT told me to do that.
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Howdy Doug!
LOL!!! If you are putting silverbearing solder in. You are now using a tin/lead alloy. Not pure lead. You said many times while talking to you on the phone that you were using PURE lead, and it was filling out just fine. LOL!
You are using PURE with tin added. Just as I suggested that you try.
RJ also told me he cast with pure lead only. I got some lead from him, and low and behold, it cast well. Later he told me it's roofing lead. Hello!!! Roofing lead has TIN n it Guy's!!!
Tofasfou has also told me he uses pure lead, and his bullets cast very well. Humm-wonder what he is using for PURE lead. Seems folks aren't paying attention to what they are using very well!
Tin makes a HUGE difference in these smallish .257's! LOL!!! 8)
KnifeMaker
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I only add it for the silver. I'm adding maybe 2 ounces into 320 ounces.
Sometimes I add it and sometimes I don't. I don't really notice any difference except that the bullets are shinny.
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WHat part of the roof has the lead? Its dark out and I need more fishing weights. ;D
Seriously though hows the build going sofar? Any progress?
Also The TJ barrels, can someone post a link to his stuff? I have googled it several times and cant find a direct link but every body says he has great barrels.
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WHat part of the roof has the lead? Its dark out and I need more fishing weights. ;D
Seriously though hows the build going sofar? Any progress?
Also The TJ barrels, can someone post a link to his stuff? I have googled it several times and cant find a direct link but every body says he has great barrels.
Bob can give you his contact info. I believe it's here on the Forum too.
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TJ's has no website.... Call Mike at (859) 635-5560 to discuss your needs.... Even his printed list is not up to date, he has many mandrels not on it....
Bob
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LOL!!! Doug, Silver solder doesn't have any real silver in it! Good thing too. Your bullets would be far too hard to shoot. Not to mention they would shrink a LOT when setting up. Far too much to fit your barrel.
I have tons of silver solder here for the knives. It it had silver,I would be melting it down! Your cracking me up!
It's the TIN that makes it appear silver like and shiney.
Knife
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double post
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And triple post LOL!!!
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I don't know what bearing solder is like, but I use Easy-Flo 45 when I do silver soldering, and it's 45% silver.... http://www.silfos.com/products/catalog/Easy-Flo-45-3-oz-p-177.html (http://www.silfos.com/products/catalog/Easy-Flo-45-3-oz-p-177.html)
Bob
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You don't want that in your pot! It's harder than antimony! There would be NO advantage to it other than making the bullet too hard! And causing undue friction.
Most people call just about any solder silver solder. It's kinda generic. The 60-40 and 35-65 is often called silver solders, or silver bearing solders, but they stopped using it in the mix decades ago.
If doug is using the real thing, it would explain his ultra high temps he is using for his casting. I wouldn't want to be around those fumes! Not to mention what it can do to the molds. Oh *(&^ No!!!
Bob, look at the link you provided. Check out the melting point, and then the flow point. You want to cast boolits at that kind of temp?
That is insane.
Knife
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I didn't say I used it for alloying lead, I said I used it for sliver soldering.... because of the statement you made that silver solder didn't have silver in it, which is incorrect... BTW, the last time I bought some, it was $45.00, so you're not going to be melting it down to recover the silver....
BTW, it would be better if you didn't assume others were idiots and use ridicule as your mainstay.... it isn't very becoming.... ::)
Bob
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I didn't say I used it for alloying lead, I said I used it for sliver soldering.... because of the statement you made that silver solder didn't have silver in it, which is incorrect... BTW, the last time I bought some, it was $45.00, so you're not going to be melting it down to recover the silver....
Bob I was cracking a funny . but Doug says he "IS" using it! I never said that you were. I don'' see how that would work fro Doug. Especially safely!
I have trying to get why Doug used such a high temp for a long time. I do know that several long time casters have tried to tell him to back off the heat, but he seems to get good results way up there. But even the very high temps he is telling me he uses, still wouldn't melt the "real" Silver solder. It would never go into full solution.
I have spoken to Veril as well, and that is NOT what I understood him to be saying. He told me 60-40 silver solder. Which is generic term for a common solder made from tin/lead.
Unrepented also said the same here on the forum. . As have many-many others over the years on different casting forums. And no one is calling anyone an idiot. Doug and I are friends. Along with Cedric and unrepented, so ease up there a little partner!
and yes melting lead, and carrying it near its out gassing zone would be insane. Any advice otherwise would be irresponsible.
You are a very sharp person. Surly you get the danger here?
Knife
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I have good success using 1% Tin, 99% pure Lead, and I run my pot at 800-850*, near 850 on .22 cal molds more like 800 on .35 and larger, other calibers in between.... I don't really find any difference between 1% Tin and 2%, other than I may be able to drop the temperature slightly (25*?) with the higher Tin content.... I guess whatever works for you is the best, right?.... I use a Lee bottom pour pot....
Bob
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Here is what I use and I don't even use 1 ounce. Just realized it is 16 ounces and I have hardly used any. Doesn't matter if I cast with or without it I still cast the same temp.
Like I said before, this was recommend by Veral at LBT. He has only been making molds for 23 years. I didn't come up with this on my own.
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Exactly. I run any where from 1% to a max of 5%. Usually 750 to 800 max. but I prefer 750 as it keeps the tin in the mix better. But to have to go over a grand to melt REAL Silver solder enough to get the silver into the mix would be a real No-N0!
Doug likes to cast at over 900. This can cause segregation. Now Doug told me that he got better fill out at this high temp. And with pure lead, I can see it. but here I see that he is NOT really using pure lead at all. That is all that I am saying. Confusing as it is.
For what ever reason, Doug and RJ both were thinking that they were using pure lead. When in truth, neither are.
I have tried to convince both of them to try a little bit of tin in the mix. and both thought it would not work. Turns out, both were, and didn't realize it. Just funny That's all.
Knife
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Yeah but I'm putting less then 1 ounce into 320 ounces of lead.
I still cast at the same temp no mater what. If it wasn't 99 % pure lead it would crust the top of my pot trying to burn off the tin. The lead stays good in my pot.
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Doug, is this the actual brand the VS suggested? copper, antimony. sounds strange! Our AG Bullets don't need these hardeners in the mix. We need Soft not hard.
Strange to say the least.
Knife
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That Watersafe, Lead-free Solder appears to be 96% Tin, 3.5% Silver, and 0.5% Copper, so the primary alloying element is the Tin.... Even a small amount will really aid the fill-out and keep the bullets bright and shiny instead of them going dull quickly like pure lead does....
I was given advice over at Cast-Boolits by a guy who casts thousands of pure lead bullets commercially on a daily basis (can't remember the name), and he told me 900*F was about right for PURE lead, he cranks his pot to the max, so hot that the bullets come out bluish but they fill out completely.... I do know that the more Tin you run, the lower you can run the temperature, but of course the harder the bullet, also.... Another guy over there recommended adding 1% Tin and in fact said that more does little in aiding fill-out, it just lowers the casting temperature.... I did find a huge difference in fill-out with the 1% Tin, but then I never tried pure Lead at over 900 either....
Bob
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I just Googled it. It has high tin, and trace amounts of the others. This would explain the ability to melt at the 410-425 range. Very similar to what I use in the shop. Makes more sense now!
Bob, it is 3.5 to 5 percent silver. Nothing like the high content silver solder that melts at well over 1000 f. With such low amounts of silver, copper,and antimony, and then putting in such a small amount into the pot, you would never notice the others.
The Silver is added to the tin, to help it to wet the joint being soldered. Or the flow if you will. This is basically what Tin does for lead. I have no idea if silver can do anything for lead, other than to harden it.
And ideas would be appreciated.
Silver Solder has a high % of silver. Silver bearing solder uses a very small % of silver. That is why I said it is not really a true silver solder being used in casting. Two different animals! Sorta like the difference in Iron and Steel. Very similar, but vastly different in practice. Both have iron, both have carbon. But in vastly different amounts. With vastly different properties.
Knife
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Bob, what I am trying to get Doug to understand, is that if running tin, it can come out of solution at over 800 deg. In effect, destroying any benefits it may have had.
Yes, 900 seems to be a sweet spot for pure lead. Just not the alloy of tin/lead. The Tin will simply appear on the surface as dross. It can be stirred back in, but will quickly segregate out again. You would have to constantly flux, and stir. Which with a bottom pour such as we both use, it kinda defeats the purpose in several ways.
Knife
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If using a top access or dipping pot, you will see a lot more dross. Sadly, much of it will be lost tin.
When using a bottom pour, I like to flux, and then use a product that deprives the surface of oxygen. such as Marvelux. Much less tin is lost this way.
Knife
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The primary reason for putting silver in solder is for stuff like the ceramic terminal strips in Tektronix scopes. The 'scopes even came with a wee roll of solder inside with the proper 2% Silver content so as not to wreck the terminal strips. Even RadioShack still sells 63% Tin, 2% Silver solder...not to mention Kester with the 44 rosin flux.
All this is significantly different from Silver solder with varying Silver content and variable melting points( solder the first bits together with the high temp, then join the sub-assemblies with the lower temp ).
cheers,
Douglas
besides, you want some silver for ware-rabbets, and ware-squirrels...LOL
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080114194049/wallaceandgromit/images/c/c0/Were-rabbit.jpg (http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080114194049/wallaceandgromit/images/c/c0/Were-rabbit.jpg)
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I say make them out of silver that way your ready for any vampires and ware wolfs if they show up!
And thanks for the info on the barrels. That explains why i couldnt find anything.
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I say make them out of silver that way your ready for any vampires and ware wolfs if they show up!
And thanks for the info on the barrels. That explains why i couldnt find anything.
Silver is not for vampires, garlic in the pot might help...LOL or perhaps a wood boolit.
cheers,
Douglas