GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Weihrauch Airguns => Topic started by: D Mc on October 11, 2014, 09:49:11 AM
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Just wondering if some of you may be able to tell me if my R9 has a problem and if so what it may be. I bought it new and it now has about 3000 rounds down the barrel. It is smooth and eventually accurate. What I mean by that is the first few shots can be quite far off, as much as two inches at 25 yards. This can last for as much as 20 or 30 pellets before the groups come back to the zero of the last shooting section, at which point the groups stay tight and consistent.
This is a fun gun to shoot but I like to hunt also and cannot do so if I have no confidence in where the first shot will go.
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I have the same problem with all my spring piston rifles for 3 to 5 shots. Going from 70* to 90* or from 70* to 30*. I think it is just the nature of the beast. My R11 (same as your R9) is deadly accurate. :)
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Thanks for the quick reply. The weather here has been great so the temperature change from indoors to out is minimal. I also forgot to say that occasionally that first shot is right on the money and then starts to drift but eventually comes back to center after many shots.
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With 3000 shots done, time for a tune. New piston seal & new main spring at the very least. Full tune with new spring guides as the optimum. Will make the gun last longer, shoot better and more accurate. Lee
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Check all the screws. Scope mounts, stock & trigger. Do this before any scope adjustments. If you notice any loose screws remember Loc-Tite is your friend. Harley riders have know this for years.
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With 3000 shots done, time for a tune. New piston seal & new main spring at the very least. Full tune with new spring guides as the optimum. Will make the gun last longer, shoot better and more accurate. Lee
I do not think so, but maybe. Mine just came into her groove at 2000 shots. She is the 2nd most accurate rifle I own (but not by much). :)
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Just wondering if some of you may be able to tell me if my R9 has a problem and if so what it may be. I bought it new and it now has about 3000 rounds down the barrel. It is smooth and eventually accurate. What I mean by that is the first few shots can be quite far off, as much as two inches at 25 yards. This can last for as much as 20 or 30 pellets before the groups come back to the zero of the last shooting section, at which point the groups stay tight and consistent.
This is a fun gun to shoot but I like to hunt also and cannot do so if I have no confidence in where the first shot will go.
IMHO.......quite normal, if the gun is factory lubed with old style factory parachute seal. If you clean the bore after each shooting session this also requires a few dozen pellets to stabilize the poi.
The R9/HW95 comes from the factory with COPIOUS amounts of tan grease and if the grease migrates past the piston seal it takes a few shots to clear the dieseling lube. Do you smell a Greyhound Bus Stop odor when you're first shooting that disappears after a couple dozen shots? If so then you're initially getting velocity fluctuations till it settles down.
What I mean by "especially old style factory piston seals" is that the old seals have a thin parachute edge, whereas the new seals have a thicker rounded sealing edge. Here is a pic of the R8 factory piston seal evolution.........
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/2042014/1406200930_1348477777_HWPistonSeals.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=54128)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
Actually, the new style seal works pretty well.
What I did to minimize temperature induced poi shifts was to replace the factory piston seal with a home turned aluminium oring sealed piston cap, use a spring kit with snug fitting guides, and completely lube the gun with non-dieseling Dupont Krytox GPL205 or Ultimox 226 (the international version of Krytox).
At the National field target match I attended last week with my break barrel R9 shooting as the lone piston shooter in the hunter class (all other entries were PCPs) I still scored near the "middle of the pack" by the end of the two day 120 shot match.
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During a shooting section I do still catch an occasional whiff of burned oil with some difficulty in breaking the barrel open afterwards. But at those times the poi changes just a very small amount, nothing like the sometimes massive, two inches at 25 yards that I can experience during warm up.
This is a new, this year gun, purchased from pyramidair and had the 4x12 banner scope. It went through two of those during the break in and it now has a Hawke 4x16 varmint sf. I have no complaints on how it groups, when it has settled down but I just have no confidence that in the field after several hours of rest that I can make a humane killing shot as it now performs.
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Booger may be right, try tightening everything down. If it shoots better, you have found the problem and then one screw at at time, Loctite blue All scope mount, scope ring screws & stock screws. DO NOT use Loctite red, you'll never get the screw out again, it's permanent!! But, I had a Walther Falcon Hunter go from brand new to a parts gun in less than 100 shots. Being me, I DON'T like OEM piston seals or main springs, no matter if it's a Gamo or RWS. New or used it comes down when I get it home, due to the Walther experience. If I had taken it down, might still have it. Having taken down 100's of guns, have yet to find a piston seal that hasn't been scalped, gouged, nicked or have holes and ground in metal along with bent main springs, new or used. Just my 2 cents - Lee
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I check all fasteners after each shooting section so that is not it. It has always been my experience that when something goes south it stays there so would problems with the spring, seals and guides cause random accuracy problems that will return to solid pellet stacking after warm up?
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YES, any and/or all of the things you described. The R9 is a beautiful gun to the eyes and to shoot and should last you your whole life. But piston seals and main springs are consumables. It's like what spark plug and tires are to a car. From time to time, they will need to be changed. But if you do a tune while it's all opened up, it should go longer between change-outs. The tune will make it a more pleasant and smoother gun to shoot also. Lee
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OK, thanks for the information. I guess it is time for me to do some more research and try to get a feel of how much I can do myself and what will need professional help.
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You will need a compressor for the spring, a metal lathe and possibly a milling machine for the guides. Other than that, gunsmithing screwdrivers if you don't want to gall up any screws, some wrenches and some lubes. All information is available in the GTA Library. Lee
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You will need a compressor for the spring, a metal lathe and possibly a milling machine for the guides. Other than that, gunsmithing screwdrivers if you don't want to gall up any screws, some wrenches and some lubes. All information is available in the GTA Library. Lee
Well, if your intention was to scare me off, it worked. A spring compressor and screwdrivers I can deal with but if in order to produce consistent accuracy from a spring gun as parts wear I will need a metal lathe, possibly a milling machine and then learn how to use them, I don't see that happening.
Airgunning is not the only thing I do so investing that much time and money to get a straight shooter seems unreasonable. I chose a springer and the R9 in particular for its modest cost and simplicity. It appears I may have made a mistake.
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heres a video of the hw95 breakdown. should be the same as the R9.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ux0xVwUj54 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ux0xVwUj54)
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There are drop in tune kits from Air Rifle Headquaters and Vortek Products Inc. for your rifle and a tuning guide here in the GTA as some follow. Some like the Krytox or Ultimox as nced mentioned on post above which may take a different lubing application.
Here is the posted GTA lube tune guide by CharlieDaTuna.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=26274.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=26274.0)
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I have two R9's. A .177 and a .20. Both have Vortek PG2 kits installed. Neither one of them has any problems with the first shot, even if it's been in the safe for a few weeks.
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D Mc, didn't realize ARH made a kit for Beeman's. Sorry about that. Knew he made them for RWS and I've used them many times. There is nobody who makes better kits, springs or seals than ARH. He's also great to do business with. Make sure you get his lubes also. Now all you have to do is hone the compression tube, clean it up and install. DONE!! Good luck - Lee
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The R9 is an excellent rifle, and these springers are not like rocket surgery to operate on. Yours apparently has an issue which a kit and some lubes will likely cure. Please give it a try, tk
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D Mc, didn't realize ARH made a kit for Beeman's. Sorry about that. Knew he made them for RWS and I've used them many times. There is nobody who makes better kits, springs or seals than ARH. He's also great to do business with. Make sure you get his lubes also. Now all you have to do is hone the compression tube, clean it up and install. DONE!! Good luck - Lee
This sounds good, I will look into it. I do appreciate everyone's helpful posts, thanks.
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The Beeman R9 is the same as the Weihrauch HW95; these rifles share the same internals as the R11 and HW98. Vortek makes a tune kit that works for one and all of these rifles. You do not need a lathe nor a milling machine. That would scare most people off. You do, however, need to make yourself a spring compressor. Do a search and you will find how to make one that fits your needs and can be made without having to get much in the way of materials.
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The Beeman R9 is the same as the Weihrauch HW95; these rifles share the same internals as the R11 and HW98. Vortek makes a tune kit that works for one and all of these rifles. You do not need a lathe nor a milling machine. That would scare most people off. You do, however, need to make yourself a spring compressor. Do a search and you will find how to make one that fits your needs and can be made without having to get much in the way of materials.
My spring compressor is simply a cheap bar clamp in a wooden support made from an old 2x4 and I've been using it for years. The only downside to using a cheap bar clamp like this is the rather short ram screw which requires the end plud be advanced in steps if there is a lot of preload on the spring.
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/2842014/1413082996_655994084_BarClamp2.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=59206)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/2842014/1413082995_1432296301_BarClamp1.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=59205)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/1312014/1399918648_1202403781_R9Shoe.JPG) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=50009)
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In the video I found and posted he didn't use a spring compressor. is this misleading or maybe this guy is very strong?
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The gun in the video is not a full power 95. It is probably German. In the assembly video he is getting 8.3 joules, just over 6 fpe in .22.
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The gun in the video is not a full power 95. It is probably German. In the assembly video he is getting 8.3 joules, just over 6 fpe in .22.
Exactly. If you have a 12 ft/lb gun you don't need a compressor. American guns do.
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thanks, good to know
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I have an R-9 with about 2000 rounds down the barrel. I would say with your situation there is a problem somewhere. I make it a practice to fire off a couple of rounds before I go hunting because sometimes the first few shots are a little off especially if it has been sitting for a while. The R-9 will require you to be very careful to be consistent in your hold which is something I periodically have to relearn. Occasionally there will be a point of impact shift of maybe an inch at 25 yards from one day to the next for an unknown reason but not usually. If I do encounter a shift I fire at least 5 rounds on paper to see what is going on because if something is getting sorted out (maybe some lube in the compression chamber) you can wind up running in circles if you start twisting scope adjustments too soon. Some things I have learned about my outfit are as follows. She hates, no... let me rephrase that. She despises sandbags that a powderburner would love. Put her on bags and the group will be about 1 1/2 inches at best. My best groups so far have come from using shooting sticks with a fist size bag cushion (bean bag kind of thing) to rest the fore end over the pivot screws and using a sandbag to help steady the butt on my fist. She does not like being stored lying down in a case. It often causes a lateral movement in the point of impact which may be a scope issue, but vertical storage minimizes shifts. Occasionally I get a whiff of burning oil but not its not a regular occurrence. Very careful paper practice has been my best tool at learning how to shoot a springer looking for the 5 shot one hole group at 25 yards. If you put in a kit the process should include deburring all of the metal edges leading to the compression chamber. That is not done at the factory and if an assembler stuffed the piston into the chamber like he was loading a cannon then your seal might have been scored or torn by a sharp edge which would mean lube getting into the chamber or a regular basis. In that case I think you could expect some erratic performance with lube being burned out gradually then maybe recoil knocking more back in, who knows where that squirrel would run. In short, in my experience with a new R-9, things don't sound right with you and your gun. Last week I was experimenting with 4 different pellets. One day I shot about 50 rounds looking for the best grouping pellets. They were JSB Exact and FTS. Two days afterward I sat down and fired a total of ten shots (5 shots with each pellet) after the gun's first barrel cleaning. Both groups were one hole at 25 yards after the rifle sat for 2 days and no sighters. I don't usually shoot one hole groups and that took a lot of concentration but your rifle should be capable of it IMO. So that business of impacts changing as a matter of routine seems to me to indicate something is not right. Don't discount that some of the trouble may have its origins in the details of your shooting form. Right now I have sort of a love hate relationship with mine. Sometimes I get really exasperated with her and ask myself why I put up with her demands. But, "dang", she's one hot chick.
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The gun in the video is not a full power 95. It is probably German. In the assembly video he is getting 8.3 joules, just over 6 fpe in .22.
Exactly. If you have a 12 ft/lb gun you don't need a compressor. American guns do.
I am really glad this point was brought out. If it was the same vid I saw it was a real stunner. Just push down a little on a pencil eraser, twist and poop out it comes. Well, I guess the up side is that it isn't very hold sensitive. A real gentle doll.
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Thanks, Yakfoot. That was a very helpful and informative post. It actually sounds like our rifles are quite similar.
Spring guns are new to me so I am more than willing to shoulder some of the blame for the problems I am having. This rifle shot well right out of the box and quickly displayed to me the meaning of hold sensitivity. So I was not to concerned with point of impact changes initially and just chocked it up to needing more trigger time. I read all I could find about proper springer shooting techniques and implemented as much as I could. So now I shoot off a benched paint roller and take great care to position both myself and the rifle the same way each time. This has shown me what this gun is capable of. Stacking pellets at 25 yards and staying in a one inch dot at 45 yards. I can't even see things that small unless i'm looking through the scope!
But even so and as good of a handle as I think I have, it still has the random poi shifts. They will start off high, low, right whatever. These are not fliers as they group, though not as tight as normal and eventually come around to hitting where they should.
So I have decided to have my R9 worked on by Lee, Shootist. He took an interest in my problem right from the start. Having it worked on by a gunsmith of his caliber will not only correct the known areas that can be improved upon in the R9 but remove all blame from the rifle if I have a poi shift.
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The gun in the video is not a full power 95. It is probably German. In the assembly video he is getting 8.3 joules, just over 6 fpe in .22.
Exactly. If you have a 12 ft/lb gun you don't need a compressor. American guns do.
This isn't exactly correct, I replaced my American version R9's spring with a JM kit without using a compressor. It is doable and pretty straight forward just like in the video. There is a couple inches of preload on the spring so you want to make sure to grasp the gun firmly while twisting the end cap against the seal. The worst part of the job for me was getting the four retainer blocks out.
Now the disclaimer - If you are at all concerned about your ability, have any doubts, reservations or uncertainty regarding being able to complete the job safely- use a spring compressor. This post in no way advocates not using the proper tool for the job, safety first always!
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First the HW rifles tend to be slathered in grease from factory most likely the cause of you cold start up wandering POI
Build a spring compressor get some air rifle specific lubes and clean and lube in correct amounts
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Thanks guys, i learned a lot from this thread.
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If your not starting with a clean bbl it could be something as simple as the slight lead coating in the bore being cold and hard until a few shot warm and soften it bringing everything back to where it was when you shot last. It takes very little to effect these guns ~~BS50 ~~