GTA

Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 and springers ,rams => Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 => Topic started by: Mikeflys on October 08, 2014, 05:50:49 PM

Title: Im getting confused
Post by: Mikeflys on October 08, 2014, 05:50:49 PM
I have asked a similar question before but I am getting  a little lost. Please be paitent with me, must be a little slow. To be spacific. For a Mrod .22. How many fills can I expect from a 95 cu ft bottle, According to the crossman calculator a 90cu in carbon fiber 4500 bottle will get me about 10 fills. When I input for the scuba tank it says 0 fills. I must be doing something wrong.
Title: Re: Im getting confused
Post by: Geoff on October 08, 2014, 06:15:27 PM
http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/Tanks/FillCalc.html (http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/Tanks/FillCalc.html)

guess a 3k fill on the gun and shooting down to 2k - 61 fills if your tank is filled to 4500 psi

you can plug numbers on the above
Title: Re: Im getting confused
Post by: rsterne on October 08, 2014, 06:47:53 PM
If the SCUBA tank is 3000 psi and you want to fill your gun to 3000 psi, then zero fills is the correct answer....

Bob
Title: Re: Im getting confused
Post by: aack73 on October 08, 2014, 09:31:01 PM
As Bob stated 0 maybe 1 fill. then the max pressure on the gun will only reach the max pressure in the tank. it will drop a little every time. you cold get a few useful fills from it but not to 3000 psi.

Ideally you want a 4500 psi tank. :)
Title: Re: Im getting confused
Post by: Mod90 on October 08, 2014, 10:06:13 PM
And the bigger the tank @ 4500 psi the more fills you get
Title: Re: Im getting confused
Post by: Mikeflys on October 09, 2014, 05:38:13 PM
Thanks for the replys. I still must be missing some bit of information, something just isn't lining up for me. I understand the superiority of a 4500 tank. But I constantly read of people using scuba tanks to fill there guns. Are they just not filling to 3000? According to Pyramid air website the maruader shoots best from 2600 and below. So is that the key to using a scuba setup, only filling to 2600?
Title: Re: Im getting confused
Post by: Yarp on October 09, 2014, 08:16:33 PM
Using the link put up by Geoffrey_K:
An 80 cu ft SCUBA tank over-filled to 3200 psi will fill a marauder from 1800 to 2600 38.8 times
Title: Re: Im getting confused
Post by: Mikeflys on October 10, 2014, 07:31:56 PM
Ah ha! Now I get it! The light finally came on. Thanks for the help. I could afford the little 90 cu in 4500 bottle but that would be pushing the budget to the limit. 10 fills is not that much. A scuba tank might be big and heavy but it sounds like the more practical of the two.
Title: Re: Im getting confused
Post by: Yarp on October 10, 2014, 08:17:06 PM
To put this in perspective, Mac1 (on this site) has 4500psi 60-minute SCBA tanks with four years left and current hydro for $200 shipped. Another seller here (classifieds) has fill kits for $120. (total =  $320.00) Tommy at Mac1 says that his tanks will go fast.   

The above rig, charged to 4500psi will fill your Marauder from 1800 to 2600 about 92 times. 
Title: Re: Im getting confused
Post by: Mikeflys on October 10, 2014, 09:53:36 PM
There you go muddying the waters for me! OK I will do more research. Here is a question,  can a dive shop fill a 4500 scba tank? I am not yet ready to buy. Trying to sell a guitar to raise the cash.
Title: Re: Im getting confused
Post by: travels4fun on October 10, 2014, 10:42:45 PM
There you go muddying the waters for me! OK I will do more research. Here is a question,  can a dive shop fill a 4500 scba tank? I am not yet ready to buy. Trying to sell a guitar to raise the cash.

Some dive can fill to 4500 psi and  some only to around 3600 psi. Your best bet is to call around and don't forget to ask what they charge per fill.  Any paintball store can fill your tank to 4500 psi as long as you have a DIN to Male Foster adapter or a Male-Male foster adapter. If you take your tank in, they'll show you what you need if they don't already have it. a male-male foster is like $15.

Also, here is a link to a 106cf 4500 psi scuba tank if you want to go large. http://www.diveseekers.com/Luxfer_Limited_106_CF_Composite_Cylinder_LALW106_p/lalw106.htm (http://www.diveseekers.com/Luxfer_Limited_106_CF_Composite_Cylinder_LALW106_p/lalw106.htm)

Title: Re: Im getting confused
Post by: Yarp on October 10, 2014, 11:02:31 PM
There you go muddying the waters for me! OK I will do more research. Here is a question,  can a dive shop fill a 4500 scba tank? I am not yet ready to buy. Trying to sell a guitar to raise the cash.
Alternatives, not mud.
My usual shop leaves me with 4200-4300psi after my tanks cool down.
Find an air source before you buy. 
Title: Re: Im getting confused
Post by: Lostcoast on October 10, 2014, 11:05:38 PM
To put this in perspective, Mac1 (on this site) has 4500psi 60-minute SCBA tanks with four years left and current hydro for $200 shipped. Another seller here (classifieds) has fill kits for $120. (total =  $320.00) Tommy at Mac1 says that his tanks will go fast.   

The above rig, charged to 4500psi will fill your Marauder from 1800 to 2600 about 92 times.

Yarp do you have a link to Tim's SCBA tanks? I've been checking his http://www.mac1airgunshop.com (http://www.mac1airgunshop.com) site but do not see any SCBA thanks for sale. Maybe I'm on the incorrect website.
Title: Re: Im getting confused
Post by: Yarp on October 10, 2014, 11:10:12 PM
To put this in perspective, Mac1 (on this site) has 4500psi 60-minute SCBA tanks with four years left and current hydro for $200 shipped. Another seller here (classifieds) has fill kits for $120. (total =  $320.00) Tommy at Mac1 says that his tanks will go fast.   

The above rig, charged to 4500psi will fill your Marauder from 1800 to 2600 about 92 times.

Yarp do you have a link to Tim's SCBA tanks? I've been checking his http://www.mac1airgunshop.com (http://www.mac1airgunshop.com) site but do not see any SCBA thanks for sale. Maybe I'm on the incorrect website.
It's his second post.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=75468.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=75468.0)
Title: Re: Im getting confused
Post by: Lostcoast on October 10, 2014, 11:14:14 PM
Great - thank you.

Regarding SCBA tanks - do they have different lifespans? I thought they were all 15 years in terms of the time span that they can be hydro approved.
Title: Re: Im getting confused
Post by: Yarp on October 11, 2014, 01:16:11 AM
In the US, carbon-composite SCBA tanks are good for fifteen years from the date of manufacture and have required hydro tests every five years. Most tanks for sale at bargain rates have shorter life spans due to previous use and/or storage time.

The new 106cf 4350 psi fiberglass reinforced scuba tank suggested by travels4fun has the same lifespan but with hydro tests every three years. It's far less expensive than a newly-manufactured carbon-composite SCBA tank.
Title: Re: Im getting confused
Post by: Lostcoast on October 11, 2014, 02:03:08 AM
In the US, carbon-composite SCBA tanks are good for fifteen years from the date of manufacture and have required hydro tests every five years. Most tanks for sale at bargain rates have shorter life spans due to previous use and/or storage time.

The new 106cf 4500 psi fiberglass reinforced 4350 psi scuba tank suggested by travels4fun has the same lifespan but with hydro tests every three years. It's far less expensive than a newly-manufactured carbon-composite SCBA tank.

So if I am understanding correctly, the shorter lifespan of bargain rate tanks is due to them being in poor condition and not being able to pass inspection? If a bargain tank was in great visual condition, would it be good for its 15 yr lifespan? The attraction to me of the SCBA tank is its portability as well as its price. The 106cf tank sounds like a great deal but would be a beast to haul around and would necessitate me getting a smaller tank in addition to the larger one...

Thanks,
Kevin
Title: Re: Im getting confused
Post by: travels4fun on October 11, 2014, 02:22:23 AM
No. All Carbon Fiber tanks get a 15 years certification in the US starting the moment they are manufactured and stamped with the month and year they were made. A tank can look brand new and be 14 years old and still only have 1 year of legal life remaining. What happens after 15 years is that dive shops won't fill your tank as they could face penalties and fines if caught filling an expired high pressure tank. The same goes for hydrotesting, if your bottle doesn't get a stamp showing it has been hydrotested every 5 years, the dive shop won't fill it. Hydrotesting costs $20-25 and is no biggie.

The takeaway from this is that the older the CF bottle, the less years you can use it. It has nothing to do with how it looks on the outside.
Title: Re: Im getting confused
Post by: Yarp on October 11, 2014, 10:08:15 AM
No. All Carbon Fiber tanks get a 15 years certification in the US starting the moment they are manufactured and stamped with the month and year they were made. A tank can look brand new and be 14 years old and still only have 1 year of legal life remaining. What happens after 15 years is that dive shops won't fill your tank as they could face penalties and fines if caught filling an expired high pressure tank. The same goes for hydrotesting, if your bottle doesn't get a stamp showing it has been hydrotested every 5 years, the dive shop won't fill it. Hydrotesting costs $20-25 and is no biggie.

The takeaway from this is that the older the CF bottle, the less years you can use it. It has nothing to do with how it looks on the outside.
Nicely said.
Title: Re: Im getting confused
Post by: Lostcoast on October 11, 2014, 03:29:40 PM
Thanks for the clarification, Travels. Now I get it.
Title: Re: Im getting confused
Post by: Geoff on October 11, 2014, 03:34:55 PM
I would be surprised if the dive shop would fill a 3k tank to a 3200 psi reading when it cooled down.
Title: Re: Im getting confused
Post by: travels4fun on October 11, 2014, 04:08:25 PM
Thanks for the clarification, Travels. Now I get it.

You are very welcome. I learned the hard way when getting into PCP guns that tanks are an expensive proposition. I started with a small Ninja buddy bottle which I found too small and I had to keep driving to the dive store to get filled which stunk. I sent the Ninja back and ended up getting a Tiger Shark 75cf tank from Joe Brancato without all the bells and whistles which is fine by me. It cost me $585 but is well worth it compared to the other options. If you can swing the price, go with the Tiger Shark, it has a 2" fill guage along with a seperate small guage that tells you the tank pressure at all times. It comes with a 3ft  long hose which is IMPORTANT as the tiny 1 foot hoses are a joke. FInally, it has built in slow flow technology so you can't fill too fast and has kink free hose connectors at both sides.
Title: Re: Im getting confused
Post by: Lostcoast on October 11, 2014, 04:28:58 PM
Yes the Tiger Shark looks like an excellent setup - though it is more than I am hoping to spend to get started, if I can avoid it. At present I am looking for a good deal on a SCBA tank made in 2008 or sooner. $200 or so on a good SCBA tank and $120 - $150 for the fill assembly will save me a few hundred dollars, which I will put into better glass.