GTA
Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 and springers ,rams => Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 => Topic started by: CarsonRatSniper on September 28, 2014, 03:21:03 PM
-
By submersing the tank in a big tub of water with just the valve above water - God forbid there's a tank failure?
-
if I had a compressor, doubt I would do it even though it is probably a good idea
-
That's what I figured...my dive shop in Reno had somebody's aluminum tank fail while filling it and if it had not been submerged in the water tank he'd be missing a leg or worse...
I'm going to do it and wear hearing protection & safety glasses when filling with my Bauer.
Overkill? Maybe but I happen to like my body!
Just wondering what 'the masses' out there are doing...
-
After living and diving in Fla for 10 years. I found out that the water tank is only to keep the tank cool. After the tank reaches ambient temperature, the one filled in a water bath will retain higher pressure. At least that's the way it was explained to me.
Tom
-
Thanks Tom...I thought it was to help absorb some of the energy and displace it in case of a failure.
-
I'm new to PCP, never did scuba .. so grain of salt. The scuba shop here explained the fill was higher with a cooler tank and it was a safety measure as well.
-
I imagine it would adsorb some energy. I think it has to do with being able to fill the bottles a little faster. Most of the dive shops I've been to in So Fla, and the Keys are very busy places.
Tom
-
The specs on my Bauer Junior II E-1 show a fill rate of 3.9 SCFM...maybe I'll use a tub anyway just to keep the tank cool if nothing else...that seems to me to be a pretty fast fill rate.
I'm also using one of Joe B's tanks with his Slo fill valve - the restriction will certainly heat the fill more...
-
I don't have a compressor. What I use is a 300 cu ft, 6000 psi nitrogen tank. I fill my smaller bottles from it. I never fill my gun from it directly until it's pressure is down to 4500. One little slip could be trouble. After I fill the small bottles I leave them sit for a couple of hours, then top them off.
Tom
-
;D I don't have a Bauer pump just the Freedom 8 and my tanks do no seem to warm up at all bot I do feed the Freedom 8 with 120 psi from my oilless Porter Cable . I guess the 20 minutes takes it takes to go from 2500 to 4500 psi allows things to cool back to ambient. As far as shrapnel risks are concerned you probably are in greater danger from a ricochet than a tank failure
-
After living and diving in Fla for 10 years. I found out that the water tank is only to keep the tank cool. After the tank reaches ambient temperature, the one filled in a water bath will retain higher pressure. At least that's the way it was explained to me.
Tom
What he said...
The fire departments use a enclosure to fill in , just INCASE of a failure.
http://www.poseidonair.com/fillstations/ (http://www.poseidonair.com/fillstations/)
But the water bath is for cooling.
-
Correction guys, my nitrogen tank is 300 cu ft.
Tom
-
After living and diving in Fla for 10 years. I found out that the water tank is only to keep the tank cool. After the tank reaches ambient temperature, the one filled in a water bath will retain higher pressure. At least that's the way it was explained to me.
Tom
Exactly. The tank isn't usually fully submersed in the water because it's so buoyant.
-
Its my first time having a tank other than a 72 ci I filled to 3000 psi with my hand pump...I asked because all I had to go on is what I saw them doing at the dive shoo before I got my hand pump.
Thanks for the responses guys!
I should have my tank in a couple of days
:)
-
I took my 17cubic ft 4500psi tank to a local scuba shop Saturday, one that I had not been to before.
(My friend at the local fire dept is off until the first of the month.)
They can only fill to 3000, he had quoted me $10 to fill over the phone.
When I showed up with the little tank, he had never seen a 4500 that small, since he couldn't top it off to its max pressure, and he didn't have to fire up their pump, he didn't charge me any money.
I bought a little divers silicone, (I didn't need any really, but I couldn't just walk out with free air...)
We talked about what I use the tank for, he asked about the air guns, their cost, their power, the ammo cost and such, I showed him some photos of the guns I have and have built.
He is a recreational shooter too, and seemed genuinely interested, hopefully one Saturday I can get a PCP into his hands and get him hooked..
-
Man, that would be AWESOME if you can get another air gun junkie convert! ;D
The only way we will ever get what we all want - inexpensive high quality guns and fill compressors - is to turn as many people as we can on to modern air guns and increase the sales so the big companies (or even small start ups) can increase their volume and *hopefully* lower consumer purchase prices.
Bring him a good one!
;)
-
The water bath is for cooling.... although I would think the extra mass might provide some safety in the event of a rupture....
Bob
-
the 4500 psi scba tanks are not rated for submersion. There are some CF scuba, but I believe they are only 4350 psi and clearly labeled as scuba. If you are dunking them, you might want to consider speaking to the manufacturer's tech department first.
cheers,
Douglas
-
I beleive that most tank failures that occur are not explosive in nature just a loud whistle and maybe a huge crack
-
I beleive that most tank failures that occur are not explosive in nature just a loud whistle and maybe a huge crack
In the cases where the binder( the glue ) has been damaged by solvents, the failures have been of detonation style. 13 ci at 3k psi is 51,000 FPE of energy storage IIRC...there is nothing removing the pressure once enough of the carbon filaments fail....the crack will propagate much faster than pressure will drop through a developing crack.
cheers,
Douglas
-
:o :o :o
THAT would be a bad day!
I will just fill it without the bath...it should be here today or tomorrow!
-
The guy that filled my scuba tank had the exact same setup and he would fill them outside on his drive way just standing up. He would fill my aluminum tank to 3300 psi so that when it cooled it would hit 3000. I don't see any reason to mess with the water tank setup.
-
The guy that filled my scuba tank had the exact same setup and he would fill them outside on his drive way just standing up. He would fill my aluminum tank to 3300 psi so that when it cooled it would hit 3000. I don't see any reason to mess with the water tank setup.
The water set up speeds up cool time. That way you don't have to wait as long for the temperature to drop back down to get a true fill pressure. Especially with a 4500psi tank.
-
I just filled it 'dry' on the floor...I wear safety glasses and ear protection 'just in case' :o
-
The guy that filled my scuba tank had the exact same setup and he would fill them outside on his drive way just standing up. He would fill my aluminum tank to 3300 psi so that when it cooled it would hit 3000. I don't see any reason to mess with the water tank setup.
The water set up speeds up cool time. That way you don't have to wait as long for the temperature to drop back down to get a true fill pressure. Especially with a 4500psi tank.
Yeah but if it's just you at your house why hassle with filling up a container with 30 gallons of water?
-
Hearing protection and eye safety dont do much good when a 100 lb bomb goes off standing 2 feet from it! The water is for both, safety and keeping it cool so as not to over heat and cause the tank to weaken. By law dive shops are supposed to fill in a water tank that is designed to contain the explosion, mostly the shrapnel. The water helps absorb the concussion as well as slow down the flying metal fragments. Water will also let you see a small leak to warn you of a problem before it does blow up. The holding tank is also designed to redirect the flying metal away from the person filling or bystanders. Most filling areas are set below the ground surface and fill with water which directs the explosion straight up rather than out toward people.
https://www.google.com/search?q=dive+tank+explosion&espv=2&biw=1437&bih=988&tbm=isch&imgil=OJUz7A2MUVRWoM%253A%253BBZVH3QpHMst7xM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fbit.ly%25252F1er9AnI&source=iu&pf=m&fir=OJUz7A2MUVRWoM%253A%252CBZVH3QpHMst7xM%252C_&usg=__ud-GAfQ5XM04xOvYkUdU5D8jktQ%3D&dpr=0.9&ved=0CCcQyjc&ei=YnkwVL6eONekyASAloKAAg#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=mQgVyBLIW_vE8M%253A%3Blf2U_Lq-jwE1vM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.scubaengineer.com%252Fpictures%252Fscubatanks%252Ftank_blo_small.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.scubaengineer.com%252Ftank_servicingx.htm%3B1516%3B1026 (https://www.google.com/search?q=dive+tank+explosion&espv=2&biw=1437&bih=988&tbm=isch&imgil=OJUz7A2MUVRWoM%253A%253BBZVH3QpHMst7xM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fbit.ly%25252F1er9AnI&source=iu&pf=m&fir=OJUz7A2MUVRWoM%253A%252CBZVH3QpHMst7xM%252C_&usg=__ud-GAfQ5XM04xOvYkUdU5D8jktQ%3D&dpr=0.9&ved=0CCcQyjc&ei=YnkwVL6eONekyASAloKAAg#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=mQgVyBLIW_vE8M%253A%3Blf2U_Lq-jwE1vM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.scubaengineer.com%252Fpictures%252Fscubatanks%252Ftank_blo_small.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.scubaengineer.com%252Ftank_servicingx.htm%3B1516%3B1026)
William
-
Hearing protection and eye safety dont do much good when a 100 lb bomb goes off standing 2 feet from it! The water is for both, safety and keeping it cool so as not to over heat and cause the tank to weaken. By law dive shops are supposed to fill in a water tank that is designed to contain the explosion, mostly the shrapnel. The water helps absorb the concussion as well as slow down the flying metal fragments. Water will also let you see a small leak to warn you of a problem before it does blow up. The holding tank is also designed to redirect the flying metal away from the person filling or bystanders. Most filling areas are set below the ground surface and fill with water which directs the explosion straight up rather than out toward people.
https://www.google.com/search?q=dive+tank+explosion&espv=2&biw=1437&bih=988&tbm=isch&imgil=OJUz7A2MUVRWoM%253A%253BBZVH3QpHMst7xM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fbit.ly%25252F1er9AnI&source=iu&pf=m&fir=OJUz7A2MUVRWoM%253A%252CBZVH3QpHMst7xM%252C_&usg=__ud-GAfQ5XM04xOvYkUdU5D8jktQ%3D&dpr=0.9&ved=0CCcQyjc&ei=YnkwVL6eONekyASAloKAAg#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=mQgVyBLIW_vE8M%253A%3Blf2U_Lq-jwE1vM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.scubaengineer.com%252Fpictures%252Fscubatanks%252Ftank_blo_small.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.scubaengineer.com%252Ftank_servicingx.htm%3B1516%3B1026 (https://www.google.com/search?q=dive+tank+explosion&espv=2&biw=1437&bih=988&tbm=isch&imgil=OJUz7A2MUVRWoM%253A%253BBZVH3QpHMst7xM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fbit.ly%25252F1er9AnI&source=iu&pf=m&fir=OJUz7A2MUVRWoM%253A%252CBZVH3QpHMst7xM%252C_&usg=__ud-GAfQ5XM04xOvYkUdU5D8jktQ%3D&dpr=0.9&ved=0CCcQyjc&ei=YnkwVL6eONekyASAloKAAg#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=mQgVyBLIW_vE8M%253A%3Blf2U_Lq-jwE1vM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.scubaengineer.com%252Fpictures%252Fscubatanks%252Ftank_blo_small.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.scubaengineer.com%252Ftank_servicingx.htm%3B1516%3B1026)
William
+1