GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: PA1911 on July 25, 2010, 09:24:02 PM
-
Hello,
I was wondering what the concensus is on what kind of accuracy we can expect from our airguns.
What group size and at what range does your rifle have to shoot before its a true keeper.
I am fairly new to airguns, and I think I expect way to much from them.
What about you all? Just wondering what it takes for you all to say "dang this thing can shoot ;D"
Also, whats the most accurate rifle you own make, model, caliber, ammo
Thanks for your input
PA1911
-
My 850 is the most accurate at up to 30 or so yards, The RS3 is very good but very hold sensitive
-
I'm going to chime in here and say that the enjoyment is when you are happy.
A gun is an extension of you and something you should enjoy. Don't worry so much about accuracy as fun. Have fun first and the accuracy will follow.
-
I dont mean to sound like Im hung up on accuracy. Heck if Im pulling the trigger on a squirt gun Im havin fun ;D. Just curious about how different shooters describe there expectations of a particular air rifle
-
I expect repeatability of a nature that lets me know where the accuracy issues lie. If i can figure out which scope, mount, pellet, hold and have it all come together into a repeatable, respectable group (1"@30yrds or so) then i'm very satisfied with my acomplishment. Some guns can do 1/2 that group almost out of the box. Most won't. It often takes a lot of time and effort into me getting a good tight group. Jeff
-
I'm Happy when I get 3/8" (half dime) 10 shot groups at 20yd's,I call the rifle well dialed in then. An right now the most acc. is my Gamo Whisper .177 that has been home tuned shooting mainly CPHP's an RWS Super dome's(rws only slightly better, but cphp get's the nod on price). I do think in time the Crosman XL will maybe win (with a little TLC an time for break-in).
-
I go with JonnyReb on this one. If I can get 1" or better at 25 yards, I'm getting satisfied. I'd like to see better and that all depends a lot of time on the body behind the trigger. ;D
But 1" @ 25 yards is good for me to consider a nail driver.
Happy Shooting!!!!
Dave
8)
-
I'm happy when I can say "that" miss was me and not the gun. Man when you hit what your aiming at that's the best. $10.00 gun or $10,000.00 Man hitting what you aimed at is like moms fried chichen it don't get no better!
-
I'm happy when my rifle shoots better than I can shoot> right now that's about a nickle size group at 30 yards'
-
My air guns are used primarily for hunting and as we all know air gun hunting is all about accurate shot placement and for me that means head shots. That being said I'm happy if an air gun will consistently put pellets into a target the size of squirrel head. Of course it goes without saying my ultimate goal is to achieve dime sized or ragged hole groups, but I can live with groups tight enough to consistently achieve accurate head shots.
As for what rifle is my most accurate...... that title would be a tie for many of my rifles ;D
Jeff
-
I would have to say that as long as I hit my target I'm aiming at(squirrel) then I'm as happy as I can be.
so far the most accurate rifle I own is my Walther Talon Magnum.
-
My most accurate air rifles are my Crosman NPSS in .22, which I worked on extensively to shoot 1" groups at 100 yards with 14.3 grain CPHP pellets at 800+ fps; and my RWS 350 Magnum in .22, which shoots less-than-1" groups at 100 yards with a new Vortek PG2 kit and muzzlebrake. My tuned CFXes in .22 are very accurate out to 75 yards as well.
-
For me a pencil head shot a 30 yards is a keeper - The Marauder is doing that now... next challenge 40 yards.
/Gerald
-
Springers - 1" @ 30 yds (I'm leaning against something to attenuate the tremors)
1377 carbines - 1/2" or less @ 20 yds (me from a rest) or with the grandkids shooting 'em
Daisy 953 - 1 hole @ 10 yds (rested)
-
I like pellets to be touching if not better at 25yards.
-
For a springer, 70% or better on paint balls at 30 yards, PCP's need to be 90% or better out to around 50 yards. As someone else already stated, being able to do it consistently is critical. Current most accurate rifle is my Beeman R9 GF .177 shooting H&N FTT's. Like the S200 it replaced, this thing just hits what I point it at, and if it doesn't, it's because I screwed up :-). That said, the other 3 rifles I have at the moment are quite capable of meeting the standard, I just don't shoot them as much. Later.
Dave
-
When sighting in a springer, I first chrony using the preferred pellet. Based on "Chair-gun" I then use the "optimum sight in range" to sight in the rifle.
I draw circles using a penny for the targets and add a shaded dot in the center, large enough to see (about the diameter of a pellet) with the scope set on 10 or 12 power (depending on the scope).
Using the dot as the aim point, I'm reasonably happy when I can group consistently inside the circle.
I've had some rifles that will not meet this criteria and they get sold, traded, or given away, depending on the gun.
I have to say also, that it takes lots of practice for this to be repeatable for me. Some rifles (or scopes) require re-sighting as I sometimes get unexplained slight POI shifts which may be caused by other factors, like temperature, or perhaps me - something that I am not doing consistently. That's what makes springers so interesting and fun for me.
I have only experimented at longer ranges a few times and have had less than stellar results on most occasions. Occasionally I get lucky though. Variable ranges and wind add additional challenges, but can be lots of fun, especially shooting over water.
I have some CO2 and PCPs, and they are almost always more accurate, yet kind of boring to me.
I just have more fun with springers.
-
I have a couple ags that are way better than I. My son at 20 yards can make the hole just get bigger with my titan but my phantom I can generally hit what I am shooting at, and the xls I have, I can hit a drink bottle pretty consistent at 55 yards with a prop. I injoy shooting whether i am any good or not its kinda like racing you know your going whether you win or not. thanks david
-
Accuracy means different things to different people. That being said, I need an AG that has a reliable degree of repeatabilty from shot to shot. An Ag that scatters shots in a 2 inch pattern at 45 feet and everyonce in awhile puts one shot in the center of the bull is not what I called accurate. But some people would be satisfied with that. I want 1/2 inch and smaller at that distance. I have several AGs that can and do shoot this. From shot to shot.
One is a B-26, two are Crosman G-1. Not expensive AGs but they are accurate and easy to take care of. I mainly use the CPHP's because they are readily available almost everywhere. The RWS Superdome is also another good pellet for my use.
To get the best shooting from the G-1s I replaced the triggers with the GRT111 trigger.
Mike.
-
1/2 @ 30 yards. And this weekend I was able to put 3 hole in hole @ 35 with my B40 and the shots were taken at least 1 hour apart. But the Kicker was shooting a house fly off the target that was set @ 30 yards.
-
Satisfaction is using only one pellet to get rid of a varmint/pest for good.
-
I'm happy when I can say "that" miss was me and not the gun. Man when you hit what your aiming at that's the best.
I'm with Yellowstone. I miss sometimes and I know it's me and not the gun. 1" at 20 yrds and I'm happy. My most accurate gun is a toss up. I love using my Mendoza RM200 .22 to pick pigeons off the peak of the roof, using Daisy pointed pellets.
-
It really boils down to the gun and what you want to do with it. A ten meter match rifle that can only group 3/8" is not considered accurate. In the hands of a competent shot, it should do one hole groups. Most hunting springers are capable of pretty fine accuracy but most aren't target guns, either. I see many, many owners demanding target rifle accuracy levels that are hard to attain with guns costing much more. Springers have to factor in their unique shooting limitations. Some can not be easily benched, requiring they be shot offhand. And, even then, you have to work to find the proper hold since they are sensitive in that area, as well. But that's part of the hobby. I should think that, for a sporter, acceptable accuracy would be consistently putting the pellet into the kill zone with enough energy to get the job done. While most folks say not to compare air guns to firearms, I think it is fair here, so I'll give an example from that side of the shooting spectrum. There are plenty of shooters who say the Winchester 94 lever action in .30-30 is not a good gun because it can't do 2" at a hundred yards. But the kill zone on a deer is about the size of a saucer, maybe six inches. Can a 94 do that? For most hunters, yes, so, for deer, it's more than accurate enough. Same thing with air guns.
-
Right on the money RedFeather.
I'm a paper shooter with plinker-Guns. If you use the right target, 10m pistol target at 10m and I can group in the Nine ring that's a good day.
Same with the 94, in the kill zone at 100yr that's a good day.
-
My most accurate air rifles are my Crosman NPSS in .22, which I worked on extensively to shoot 1" groups at 100 yards with 14.3 grain CPHP pellets at 800+ fps; and my RWS 350 Magnum in .22, which shoots less-than-1" groups at 100 yards with a new Vortek PG2 kit and muzzlebrake. My tuned CFXes in .22 are very accurate out to 75 yards as well.
For sure the CFX and NPSS air guns are very accurate at short range. As far as the RWS 350 is concerned I do not own one so I do not have any knowledge of accuracy or distance for accuracy.
Both my NPSS and Gamo CFX have been tuned by me. They both are very accurate air rifles. With that said, the arch of the pellets flight with a NPSS at 100 yards would be pretty big. But the CFX would be even a higher arch for pellet flight..:) In otherwords both guns would need a allot of hold over and a good mil dot scope. To consistently hit a 1" dot at 100 yards is beyond my abilities as a hole puncher..:) Not saying it can't be done but with a pellet flying for 100 yards and hitting a 1" bulls is pretty amazing..:) Especially with the CFX.
-
Gene,
My other shooting hobby is archery, and you have to hold the bow pretty steady in order to shoot long distances. I consistently shoot 3" groups at 60 yards with my bow, and that translates over to being able to hold a rifle steady in offhand shooting. Breathing control is important too.
When I was shooting with the gang from Cobra Airguns at the Brookhaven range a few weekends back, one of the shooters was spotting me and he kept saying my shots were all going into the same 1" hole in the target out at 100 yards. My scope on the NPSS is dialed in to 100 yards now, so at 20 yards, I have to hold under the target about 4 mil-dots on the centerpoint scope.
I didn't get a chance to zero my CFX out to 100 yards because they were getting ready to start their field shoot, but I was consistently "pinging" the metal critter target at 75 yards with it. It's zeroed in at 40 yards, so at 75 yards, I have to hold over it about 1.5 mil-dots on the Leapers Accushot scope
The RWS 350 Magnum is a one-holer at 20 yards and I really want to get that back to the range.
-
When I can pop pigeons at will from 70 yards :)
Beeman 1073
-
wet Ant accurate. Took one out at 40yards 36inches............popped him between the eyeballs. He's at the taxadermist as we speak.
-
you must have a small-minded taxadermist....
-
For me it depends on if I'm shooting offhand or resting the rifle. When rested I expect nickel sized groups at 25 yards with my RWS 48 .22 my cometa fusion black can produce similar groups but is a lot more hold sensitive. At closer ranges my guns rarely shoot groups larger than a dime. If they do its always my fault :)
-
What to expect? You can expect that, after posting that you can shoot such-and-such groups with your gun, there will immediately follow a response from a fellow who has exactly the same rig as yours, and routinely lights kitchen matches at one hundred yards shooting recovered pellets, gun rested upon an old coat folded across the hood of his running pickup while he has the hiccups. Don't let him discourage you. ;-)
(Prior poster, I'm just talking in general, not about your reply. :-) )
-
Hehehee...Deanda, 40yds36inches = 41 yards ;)
-
Well Red I wish I had a 100 yard range to find out if I could do that but I'm well aware that the guns are more then capable of shooting that well. Personally as a shooter I don't think I shoot that well.
;)
-
Are all of them? I don't feel comfortable with that. Especially concerning springers where hold sensitivity and shot-to-shot consistency can throw in some pretty big variables. At least, not day in / day out.
-
As long as it hits what I aim at (and I don't pull the shot!) I am happy. Have a few that will do dime-size groups at 20 to 25 yds (about max distance in my yard) with me sitting on the ground (no bench rest stuff). If I can spin teaspoons from 12 to 20 yds offhand I'm generally happy.
-
It all depends on what I am shooting; both gun and target.
10m match rifle on a regulation 10m target I want a LOT more accuracy that shooting that same rifle at a cracker.
And similarly, the same rifle w a scope on a rest, I expect a LOT more accuracy than that same rifle off hand w aperture sights.
Likewise I do not expect my sportster rifles to shoot anywhere near as accurate as my match rifle.
Here is a variation of an old saying "minute of Coke can accuracy."
And that is just fine by me when I plink.
-
My Sumatra 177carbine, pellet on pellet at 30 yards.
-
My Evanix Rainstorm puts the 28.4gr EunJin pellets in a nickle sized group at 30 yards in windy conditions
My Sing Sung 707 Ultra is a one hole rifle with the .360 roundball at 35 yards in windy conditions
-
the 2 most accurate rifles i have are my phantom shooting destroyers and the next one is the titan with cphp. thanks david
-
Years ago, my first pellet rifle was a Sheridan Black Streak. I was the first one in the area to get a pumper, and it shot so much better than anyone else's break-barrel. I knew absolutely nothing about how to or if you could make these make these things more accurate. The only modification I made to mine was to add a little 4x weaver scope a neighbor had given to me which he had gotten off a .22 pb he had purchased used. With the scope, the thing was a tack-hammer at 20-25 yds. All I knew was that I had the most accurate AG around and not only enjoyed the shooting, but I also really enjoyed the local notoriety! You know, King of the Hill.
After many years of too much work, kids, more work, house, work, kids college,etc... I decided to get back into AG's for something fun to do. My current mindset now approaches the sport much differently now. I guess maturity does that for you. I find there's a great deal of enjoyment (along with the frustration) in trying to get these to be as absolutely accurate as possible. Apparently, it becomes a quest for many of us.
The GTA has been such an invaluable asset in this journey for me. Both in information and the ability to go one to one with so many like-minded folks.
Soooooooo.... to answer your question, for me, satisfaction will come when I feel I've done everything I can to a particular AG and it gives me the same results as my first one, which I now know was the exception, rather than the rule. When I feel its all it can be, then the plan is to do it all over again! My new XL came out of the box shooting about 3/8 c-c at 20 yds. Interestingly, that changed. I'll be posting the the experience as it develops.
-
Uncle Paulie, your Sheridan wasn't the exception, at least not as far as Sheridan rifles go. Sheridan rifles, especially the older ones were/are VERY accurate shooting machines.
I also like to tweak my airguns to get the most accuracy I can out of them. When I bought my '65 model Sheridan last year, all it needed were new seals and a good cleaning. It's probably my most accurate gun and for the least amount of work. :D
-
you must have a small-minded taxadermist....
hahahahah.........he has little bity fingers also.........hahahah
-
Andy.........I'm actually considering "going backward" (to an early 60's blue streak)for one of my next projects, that way I can have a complete set for what I'm sure will probably become my "collection"! Can't figure for the life of me how I got so far away from something which gives me so much pleasure.
pv
-
Now, how is that "going backward"? Blue Streaks, especially the older ones, are fine "MPR's" or multi-pumpers. Very good power, triggers that you don't have to tweak 'cause they are fine to start with and accurate, too. I like the new Benjamin pellets and they say the .20 JSB's are pure death on feather, fur and paper. One guy on the Yellow recently boasted that he had introduced a buddy to "adult air guns" by loaning him his .20 Beeman R9. The fellow was already acquainted with that caliber because he owned a Sheridan. Well, says I, I guess he was also already acquainted with adult air guns, weren't he? Just another facet of the air gun hobby. And a shiny one, at that.
-
Visual response....
I'm satisfied when shots at 30 yards do this.
By the way, this is a thrice used target. I attached replacement Shoot-N-C dots to reuse the target. The ones with the blue circles were just shot a few minutes ago with my newly built XL1100 - Predator 16gr - CP 4-16X40AOIR - resting left forearm on a towel placed on my deck railing. THIS is what I consider just about satisfied. Had one I pulled, so I'll be perfectly satisfied when I do what I'm SUPPOSED to.
Footnote: you can tell which were the Predator shots, they seemed to leave a small indent and circle inside the main impact mark.
-
I shoot in my yard almost always. I shoot offhand always, no scope, and at 12 yards. I am happy when I line up 6 or 8 shotgun shells and miss only one. I honestly havent shot further than that for more than a couple of shots. I want to go out and shoot at different yardage to see how I do, just haven't found anywhere close yet, without going to a range.[ Ive only found one range that I like, but its hard to shell out $140. that could go to a new airgun!!] I suppose I could try smaller targets for now.
-
Red Feather, its only going backward in that I had one those many years ago and I let it get away! :'(
pv
-
Vinny, 12 yards for open sight, offhand plinking is where I am a lot too. But with my eyes I usually need a scope beyond that to see small stuff clearly! &^^&, actually a scope at 10 to 12 yds comes in handy too some times. :-[
And speaking of Sharidans and accuracy ....
A fellow from Australia (call sign "Yarra" I believe) posted pictures of a 100 yd group he shot with his mid-70's vintage Blue Streak. Five shots (JSB pellets) in just a little over an inch! He had some kind of small vintage scope (4x I think) mounted on the rifle.
But then again the guy routinely shoots at a 100 yds with airguns, mostly PCP's and springers I think.